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benapetr at gmail

Apr 10, 2012, 1:57 AM

Post #1 of 26 (1888 views)
Permalink
Save to userspace

Hi, this is a proposal for a new feature to mediawiki core or a new
extension (I would myself prefer an extension, but given that the
development process seems to be broken, per my previous email, it's
likely not possible for a non-wmf dev to have it deployed)

I think many editors had the problem that they were editing a page,
but had to leave computer for some reason before they finished and
needed to save the work, the only way to handle this is to copy the
source code and save it somewhere, but what if you aren't going to use
the same computer? The workaround is to copy paste the code of page to
some other page on wiki, but that isn't really so easy, for new users
and it's annoying. It would be nice to have a feature "save draft to
userspace" which would open the new text box with name of new page you
want to save source to, which would look like:

Special:MyPage/Draft_$ArticleName_$Date

Users could change it to some other name of course before saving. Or
even they could create a template for name in their advanced
preferences. This could make it simpler to save work in progress for
newbies.

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wikiposta at gmail

Apr 10, 2012, 2:00 AM

Post #2 of 26 (1865 views)
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Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

Sounds good, Petr! I think many users will love it.

--
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benapetr at gmail

Apr 10, 2012, 2:02 AM

Post #3 of 26 (1873 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

Also, another cool feature would be auto save, which would
periodically save the work somewhere, probably to a separate table and
in case your computer would crash, you could recover it. The auto
saved revisions would be removed from db after certain time

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Bináris <wikiposta [at] gmail> wrote:
> Sounds good, Petr! I think many users will love it.
>
> --
> Bináris
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oscar.vives at gmail

Apr 10, 2012, 2:07 AM

Post #4 of 26 (1918 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

On 10 April 2012 10:57, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
> Hi, this is a proposal for a new feature to mediawiki core or a new
> extension (I would myself prefer an extension, but given that the
> development process seems to be broken, per my previous email, it's
> likely not possible for a non-wmf dev to have it deployed)
>
> I think many editors had the problem that they were editing a page,
> but had to leave computer for some reason before they finished and
> needed to save the work, the only way to handle this is to copy the
> source code and save it somewhere, but what if you aren't going to use
> the same computer?
..
> Special:MyPage/Draft_$ArticleName_$Date
>
> Users could change it to some other name of course before saving. Or
> even they could create a template for name in their advanced
> preferences. This could make it simpler to save work in progress for
> newbies.
>

Or you could have a magic reserved space for users, that works
exactly like localStorage, but is serverside. And limited size.

Then implement the thing clientside. So the only serverside thing is
the ability to save key "Foo" and get key "Foo", for the current
logued user.

This is more exploitable than just for drafts. Could be used by
extensions to store user controlled config. Perhaps to store some
browsing story. Or things you can't imagine yet.

The evil twin to this, is that if you implement drafs. Can be abused
to have a "localStorage serverside" area.



--
--
ℱin del ℳensaje.

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seb35wikipedia at gmail

Apr 10, 2012, 2:46 AM

Post #5 of 26 (1910 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

Hi,

There is already such an extension:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Drafts
Last time I played with it (some years ago) it was well-functionning and
really practical.

Sébastien

Le Tue, 10 Apr 2012 11:02:09 +0200, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> a écrit:
> Also, another cool feature would be auto save, which would
> periodically save the work somewhere, probably to a separate table and
> in case your computer would crash, you could recover it. The auto
> saved revisions would be removed from db after certain time
>
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Bináris <wikiposta [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Sounds good, Petr! I think many users will love it.
>>
>> --
>> Bináris

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helder.wiki at gmail

Apr 10, 2012, 3:10 AM

Post #6 of 26 (1874 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 06:46, Seb35 <seb35wikipedia [at] gmail> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> There is already such an extension:
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Drafts
> Last time I played with it (some years ago) it was well-functionning and
> really practical.

Indeed. It was already available when the usability initiative did a
survey of MW extensions in 2009:
https://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Environment_Survey/MediaWiki_Extensions/Nomination

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benapetr at gmail

Apr 10, 2012, 3:35 AM

Post #7 of 26 (1865 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

This extension isn't really the same as what I proposed, however it
was presented years ago but never deployed.

Is there any existing extension which can do auto save?

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Helder <helder.wiki [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 06:46, Seb35 <seb35wikipedia [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> There is already such an extension:
>> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Drafts
>> Last time I played with it (some years ago) it was well-functionning and
>> really practical.
>
> Indeed. It was already available when the usability initiative did a
> survey of MW extensions in 2009:
> https://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Environment_Survey/MediaWiki_Extensions/Nomination
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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helder.wiki at gmail

Apr 10, 2012, 4:22 AM

Post #8 of 26 (1867 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 07:35, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
> Is there any existing extension which can do auto save?

The Extension:Drafts does.

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benapetr at gmail

Apr 10, 2012, 4:47 AM

Post #9 of 26 (1870 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

It isn't stable, maybe someone should take over the work on it... If
it was finished it would be nice to have feature, if it was ever
deployed of course.

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Helder <helder.wiki [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 07:35, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Is there any existing extension which can do auto save?
>
> The Extension:Drafts does.
>
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saper at saper

Apr 11, 2012, 1:59 AM

Post #10 of 26 (1905 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

>> Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
> It isn't stable, maybe someone should take over the work on it... If
> it was finished it would be nice to have feature, if it was ever
> deployed of course.

Can you describe (maybe on a talk page or maybe better in bugzilla)
what's wrong with this extension (why it isn't working) and also
how would you like to have it changed? It's much easier to start
working on the obsolete codebase than from scratch.

//Saper


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benapetr at gmail

Apr 11, 2012, 2:18 AM

Post #11 of 26 (1860 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

I have no idea the page of extension say that it isn't stable

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Marcin Cieslak <saper [at] saper> wrote:
>>> Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
>> It isn't stable, maybe someone should take over the work on it... If
>> it was finished it would be nice to have feature, if it was ever
>> deployed of course.
>
> Can you describe (maybe on a talk page or maybe better in bugzilla)
> what's wrong with this extension (why it isn't working) and also
> how would you like to have it changed? It's much easier to start
> working on the obsolete codebase than from scratch.
>
> //Saper
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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chrisgrantmail at gmail

Apr 11, 2012, 2:33 AM

Post #12 of 26 (1902 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

Hmm, you could probably do this with a javascript gadget. It would probably
be quicker and easier than an extension.

- Chris

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:

> I have no idea the page of extension say that it isn't stable
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Marcin Cieslak <saper [at] saper> wrote:
> >>> Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
> >> It isn't stable, maybe someone should take over the work on it... If
> >> it was finished it would be nice to have feature, if it was ever
> >> deployed of course.
> >
> > Can you describe (maybe on a talk page or maybe better in bugzilla)
> > what's wrong with this extension (why it isn't working) and also
> > how would you like to have it changed? It's much easier to start
> > working on the obsolete codebase than from scratch.
> >
> > //Saper
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l [at] lists
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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emufarmers at gmail

Apr 11, 2012, 2:48 AM

Post #13 of 26 (1858 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 5:18 AM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
> I have no idea the page of extension say that it isn't stable

Because the author of the extension never marked it as stable.

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happy.melon.wiki at gmail

Apr 11, 2012, 3:28 AM

Post #14 of 26 (1850 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

On 11 April 2012 10:48, Benjamin Lees <emufarmers [at] gmail> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 5:18 AM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
> > I have no idea the page of extension say that it isn't stable
>

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1

--HM
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benapetr at gmail

Apr 11, 2012, 7:19 AM

Post #15 of 26 (1852 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

So you say person who created it finished the extension to deployment
ready status and just forgot to update the extension page for it :-)

I will try to review it a bit then

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Happy Melon
<happy.melon.wiki [at] gmail> wrote:
> On 11 April 2012 10:48, Benjamin Lees <emufarmers [at] gmail> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 5:18 AM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
>> > I have no idea the page of extension say that it isn't stable
>>
>
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1
>
> --HM
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
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benapetr at gmail

Apr 11, 2012, 7:30 AM

Post #16 of 26 (1906 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

I deployed it to english wikipedia on deployment site for test:
http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:Drafts

let's try it ;) if there are no issues found I will ask for a full
code review and hopefully it won't take years for it to happen.

Anyway I still believe this should be in core, because the extension
development process works pretty bad. (Simple and fast core is clearly
a benefit, but only so long as it's possible to easily extend it using
some plugins, and having any extension deployed to wmf sites is way
more complicated than implementing change to core)

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
> So you say person who created it finished the extension to deployment
> ready status and just forgot to update the extension page for it :-)
>
> I will try to review it a bit then
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Happy Melon
> <happy.melon.wiki [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On 11 April 2012 10:48, Benjamin Lees <emufarmers [at] gmail> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 5:18 AM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
>>> > I have no idea the page of extension say that it isn't stable
>>>
>>
>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1
>>
>> --HM
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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benapetr at gmail

Apr 11, 2012, 7:38 AM

Post #17 of 26 (1907 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

It really needs some more work, I didn't find how to use it, it likely
doesn't work with latest mediawiki, anyway, the question now is
whether it's worth of implementing this to core or making an
extension?

I would prefer making an extension, but again, implementing it to core
will make it easier to deploy + I can't think of any wiki, even non
wmf which couldn't benefit from this feature.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
> I deployed it to english wikipedia on deployment site for test:
> http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:Drafts
>
> let's try it ;) if there are no issues found I will ask for a full
> code review and hopefully it won't take years for it to happen.
>
> Anyway I still believe this should be in core, because the extension
> development process works pretty bad. (Simple and fast core is clearly
> a benefit, but only so long as it's possible to easily extend it using
> some plugins, and having any extension deployed to wmf sites is way
> more complicated than implementing change to core)
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
>> So you say person who created it finished the extension to deployment
>> ready status and just forgot to update the extension page for it :-)
>>
>> I will try to review it a bit then
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Happy Melon
>> <happy.melon.wiki [at] gmail> wrote:
>>> On 11 April 2012 10:48, Benjamin Lees <emufarmers [at] gmail> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 5:18 AM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
>>>> > I have no idea the page of extension say that it isn't stable
>>>>
>>>
>>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1
>>>
>>> --HM
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
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>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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helder.wiki at gmail

Apr 11, 2012, 7:47 AM

Post #18 of 26 (1859 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 11:38, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
> It really needs some more work, I didn't find how to use it, it likely
> doesn't work with latest mediawiki
I noticed this:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Drafts#Bugs

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benapetr at gmail

Apr 11, 2012, 7:53 AM

Post #19 of 26 (1858 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

Yes it looks like some problem with the het setup, I will try to talk
to werdna regarding this.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Helder <helder.wiki [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 11:38, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
>> It really needs some more work, I didn't find how to use it, it likely
>> doesn't work with latest mediawiki
> I noticed this:
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Drafts#Bugs
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
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benapetr at gmail

Apr 11, 2012, 8:15 AM

Post #20 of 26 (1853 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

Ok, I managed to fix it, anyway there are still some issues:

The autosave works after 2 minutes of inactivity. It should work
anyway, in case your pc crash there is no way to recover your work,
since it's browser which waits 2 minutes for inactivity and not a
server and browser crashes together with rest of OS.

There should be a way to customize whole interface using MediaWiki:
pages, the table with drafts could look better or the style should be
customizable using interface of mediawiki.

I will try to work on these 2 issues, but if anyone wants to join,
please go ahead.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 4:53 PM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
> Yes it looks like some problem with the het setup, I will try to talk
> to werdna regarding this.
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Helder <helder.wiki [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 11:38, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
>>> It really needs some more work, I didn't find how to use it, it likely
>>> doesn't work with latest mediawiki
>> I noticed this:
>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Drafts#Bugs
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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innocentkiller at gmail

Apr 11, 2012, 8:47 AM

Post #21 of 26 (1903 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
> Ok, I managed to fix it, anyway there are still some issues:
>
> The autosave works after 2 minutes of inactivity. It should work
> anyway, in case your pc crash there is no way to recover your work,
> since it's browser which waits 2 minutes for inactivity and not a
> server and browser crashes together with rest of OS.
>

That sounds like something fixable. Personally, I think the best
behavior is to save the draft a couple of seconds after the user
stops typing.

> There should be a way to customize whole interface using MediaWiki:
> pages, the table with drafts could look better or the style should be
> customizable using interface of mediawiki.
>

If this is done properly with classes and ids, this should all be
customizable by via site CSS/JS. But a sane default UI is
important, yes :)

-Chad

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benapetr at gmail

Apr 11, 2012, 9:03 AM

Post #22 of 26 (1853 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Chad <innocentkiller [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Ok, I managed to fix it, anyway there are still some issues:
>>
>> The autosave works after 2 minutes of inactivity. It should work
>> anyway, in case your pc crash there is no way to recover your work,
>> since it's browser which waits 2 minutes for inactivity and not a
>> server and browser crashes together with rest of OS.
>>
>
> That sounds like something fixable. Personally, I think the best
> behavior is to save the draft a couple of seconds after the user
> stops typing.
>

No, it should save it no matter if user is typing or not. Computer
doesn't crash only when you stop typing.

>> There should be a way to customize whole interface using MediaWiki:
>> pages, the table with drafts could look better or the style should be
>> customizable using interface of mediawiki.
>>
>
> If this is done properly with classes and ids, this should all be
> customizable by via site CSS/JS. But a sane default UI is
> important, yes :)
>

Default is nice, but still there should be a possibility to change the
layout without having shell access.

> -Chad
>
> _______________________________________________
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innocentkiller at gmail

Apr 11, 2012, 9:15 AM

Post #23 of 26 (1904 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Chad <innocentkiller [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
>> If this is done properly with classes and ids, this should all be
>> customizable by via site CSS/JS. But a sane default UI is
>> important, yes :)
>>
>
> Default is nice, but still there should be a possibility to change the
> layout without having shell access.
>

Not shell access, just done via [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]

-Chad

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benapetr at gmail

Apr 12, 2012, 8:32 AM

Post #24 of 26 (1832 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

I made a few changes to extension and I would like to make following
changes as well:

* Preferences allowing users to disable the feature or change the
autosave limits
* Options for site administrators to change the UI, via MW pages
* Notification area to edit form so that users see when the draft was last saved

I think this extension is actually very nice and it would be good if
it was deployed and since the work was started by Trevor who is a wmf
employee, I think it's quite possible that it could happen.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 6:15 PM, Chad <innocentkiller [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Chad <innocentkiller [at] gmail> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:
>>> If this is done properly with classes and ids, this should all be
>>> customizable by via site CSS/JS. But a sane default UI is
>>> important, yes :)
>>>
>>
>> Default is nice, but still there should be a possibility to change the
>> layout without having shell access.
>>
>
> Not shell access, just done via [[MediaWiki:Common.css]]
>
> -Chad
>
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agarrett at wikimedia

Apr 12, 2012, 8:20 PM

Post #25 of 26 (1817 views)
Permalink
Re: Save to userspace [In reply to]

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Petr Bena <benapetr [at] gmail> wrote:

> Hi, this is a proposal for a new feature to mediawiki core or a new
> extension (I would myself prefer an extension, but given that the
> development process seems to be broken, per my previous email, it's
> likely not possible for a non-wmf dev to have it deployed)
>
> I think many editors had the problem that they were editing a page,
> but had to leave computer for some reason before they finished and
> needed to save the work, the only way to handle this is to copy the
> source code and save it somewhere, but what if you aren't going to use
> the same computer? The workaround is to copy paste the code of page to
> some other page on wiki, but that isn't really so easy, for new users
> and it's annoying. It would be nice to have a feature "save draft to
> userspace" which would open the new text box with name of new page you
> want to save source to, which would look like:
>
> Special:MyPage/Draft_$ArticleName_$Date
>
> Users could change it to some other name of course before saving. Or
> even they could create a template for name in their advanced
> preferences. This could make it simpler to save work in progress for
> newbies.
>

Have you seen http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Drafts ?

--
Andrew Garrett
Wikimedia Foundation
agarrett [at] wikimedia
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