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GSoC -- TranslateSvg: Bringing the translation revolution to Wikimedia Commons

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jarry1250 at gmail

Apr 1, 2012, 2:39 AM

Post #1 of 6 (105 views)
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GSoC -- TranslateSvg: Bringing the translation revolution to Wikimedia Commons

Hey all,

Now I have more of the details sorted out, I'd like to invite feedback on
my Google Summer of Code proposed project, entitled *TranslateSvg: Bringing
the translation revolution to Wikimedia Commons *.[1]. Obviously the
deadline for submissions is rapidly closing in, but comments would still be
very welcome, either before or after that deadline.

To quote from my proposal:

> TranslateSvg has the potential to revolutionise the ability of Wikimedia's
> diverse groups of image maintainers to work together creating and improving
> the same communal set of SVG (vector) images. At the moment, providing
> alternative translations of SVG files typically requires "forking" the
> image. This drastically increases the image's maintenance burden and
> thereby discourages image improvement. Where such improvement does take
> place, it is seldom shared between different language versions.
> TranslateSvg would completely change this suboptimal workflow by removing
> the need for the image to be forked; instead, translations (provided using
> a streamlined special page) would be saved inside the image itself, in
> accordance with the SVG 1.1 specification. The file, complete with these
> embedded translations, could then be displayed in either the language of a
> wiki, the user's preferred interface language, or any given arbitrary
> language. If the SVG file were to be served directly, it would helpfully
> display in the user's system language where such a translation was
> available, aiding reuse possibilities. When I originally raised this idea
> it received the support of several Wikimedia Commons users as well as WMF
> developers.
>
Thanks!

Harry (User:Jarry1250)

[1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Jarry1250/GSoC_2012_application
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strainu10 at gmail

Apr 3, 2012, 5:10 AM

Post #2 of 6 (99 views)
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Re: GSoC -- TranslateSvg: Bringing the translation revolution to Wikimedia Commons [In reply to]

În data de 1 aprilie 2012, 12:39, Harry Burt <jarry1250 [at] gmail> a scris:
> Hey all,

Hi Harry,

>
> Now I have more of the details sorted out, I'd like to invite feedback on
> my Google Summer of Code proposed project, entitled *TranslateSvg: Bringing
> the translation revolution to Wikimedia Commons *.[1]. Obviously the
> deadline for submissions is rapidly closing in, but comments would still be
> very welcome, either before or after that deadline.

This would be great if implemented. However, I do have a small
observation on your project. You seem to want to target your extension
for deployment on Wikimedia Commons. I think a better approach is to
use it on Translatewiki, as the community there has much more
experience with l10n.

An ideal situation (but hardly appropriate for a summer project) is to
have some kind of suggestion box on Commons that would appear on
Translatewiki when that particular SVG is translated.

Regards,
Strainu

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s.mazeland at xs4all

Apr 3, 2012, 6:44 AM

Post #3 of 6 (94 views)
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Re: GSoC -- TranslateSvg: Bringing the translation revolution to Wikimedia Commons [In reply to]

It woud be pretty cool if you could add it as a feature to the translate extension. It's pretty modular, and what it would require is an "on the fly" message group creation, as well as an integration into the image pages, I presume similar to the page translation feature.

Add Niklas on Cc in case he can provide some input.

--
Siebrand Mazeland

M: +31 6 50 69 1239
Skype: siebrand

Op 3 apr. 2012 om 14:10 heeft Strainu <strainu10 [at] gmail> het volgende geschreven:

> În data de 1 aprilie 2012, 12:39, Harry Burt <jarry1250 [at] gmail> a scris:
>> Hey all,
>
> Hi Harry,
>
>>
>> Now I have more of the details sorted out, I'd like to invite feedback on
>> my Google Summer of Code proposed project, entitled *TranslateSvg: Bringing
>> the translation revolution to Wikimedia Commons *.[1]. Obviously the
>> deadline for submissions is rapidly closing in, but comments would still be
>> very welcome, either before or after that deadline.
>
> This would be great if implemented. However, I do have a small
> observation on your project. You seem to want to target your extension
> for deployment on Wikimedia Commons. I think a better approach is to
> use it on Translatewiki, as the community there has much more
> experience with l10n.
>
> An ideal situation (but hardly appropriate for a summer project) is to
> have some kind of suggestion box on Commons that would appear on
> Translatewiki when that particular SVG is translated.
>
> Regards,
> Strainu
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Apr 3, 2012, 6:59 AM

Post #4 of 6 (96 views)
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Re: GSoC -- TranslateSvg: Bringing the translation revolution to Wikimedia Commons [In reply to]

Hoi,
You did create a prototype extension for this before. Was it ever reviewed ?
Thanks,
Gerard

http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/2012/01/translations-in-svg.html

On 1 April 2012 11:39, Harry Burt <jarry1250 [at] gmail> wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> Now I have more of the details sorted out, I'd like to invite feedback on
> my Google Summer of Code proposed project, entitled *TranslateSvg: Bringing
> the translation revolution to Wikimedia Commons *.[1]. Obviously the
> deadline for submissions is rapidly closing in, but comments would still be
> very welcome, either before or after that deadline.
>
> To quote from my proposal:
>
> > TranslateSvg has the potential to revolutionise the ability of
> Wikimedia's
> > diverse groups of image maintainers to work together creating and
> improving
> > the same communal set of SVG (vector) images. At the moment, providing
> > alternative translations of SVG files typically requires "forking" the
> > image. This drastically increases the image's maintenance burden and
> > thereby discourages image improvement. Where such improvement does take
> > place, it is seldom shared between different language versions.
> > TranslateSvg would completely change this suboptimal workflow by removing
> > the need for the image to be forked; instead, translations (provided
> using
> > a streamlined special page) would be saved inside the image itself, in
> > accordance with the SVG 1.1 specification. The file, complete with these
> > embedded translations, could then be displayed in either the language of
> a
> > wiki, the user's preferred interface language, or any given arbitrary
> > language. If the SVG file were to be served directly, it would helpfully
> > display in the user's system language where such a translation was
> > available, aiding reuse possibilities. When I originally raised this idea
> > it received the support of several Wikimedia Commons users as well as WMF
> > developers.
> >
> Thanks!
>
> Harry (User:Jarry1250)
>
> [1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Jarry1250/GSoC_2012_application
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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niklas.laxstrom at gmail

Apr 3, 2012, 10:02 AM

Post #5 of 6 (94 views)
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Re: GSoC -- TranslateSvg: Bringing the translation revolution to Wikimedia Commons [In reply to]

On 3 April 2012 16:44, Siebrand Mazeland <s.mazeland [at] xs4all> wrote:
> It woud be pretty cool if you could add it as a feature to the translate extension. It's pretty modular, and what it would require is an "on the fly" message group creation, as well as an integration into the image pages, I presume similar to the page translation feature.
>
> Add Niklas on Cc in case he can provide some input.

It's relative easy to register new message group dynamically to
Translate extension:
* Use TranslatePostInitGroups hook to register the group
* Subclass one of the message group classes
* Either make sure MessageGroups::clearCache is called or correct
dependencies for the cache are added with the above hook.
* Probably also need to call statistic purging hooks at places.

Talk to me if you want to have more details how to do the above.
-Niklas

--
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jarry1250 at gmail

Apr 8, 2012, 4:31 AM

Post #6 of 6 (92 views)
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Re: GSoC -- TranslateSvg: Bringing the translation revolution to Wikimedia Commons [In reply to]

Hey all,

thanks for your replies. Unfortunately I wasn't able to read them until
today, so the "official" GSoC proposal has now been sent off. That said,
I'm no less enthusiastic about reaching out to knowledgeable people
involved with translation, and, if necessary, adapting the way GSoC works
out (if my proposal is accepted) or the future roadmap for TranslateSvg
generally (if it is not).

So yes, comments still very much welcome :) I also have a few thoughts on
what has been said already, and I'm hoping this can open up a dialogue
(either on this list or bilaterally).

Firstly, image "translation" isn't just (string) translation, which (as I
understand it), is what the Translate extension focuses on. For example, it
will involve users adjusting co-ordinates to ensure the image displays
properly. It will involve changing formatting, including font size, and
possibly bolding as well. It may even end up involving the selection of
typefaces too. It will definitely involve an image preview. Is the
architecture of the extension sufficiently high-level to accommodate these
on a per-language basis, I wonder? If it is, then building on top of it
sounds like a real possibility.

Secondly, to respond to the question over Translatewiki.net, it is worth
noting that the extraction and input of translatable strings into SVGs is
non-trivial. If you imagine these as being hosted on Wikimedia Commons, a
workflow taking in TranslateWiki.net would have, I think, to involve an
intermediary storage area which TranslateWiki.net saves into, then a
Wikipedia bot processing those, generating the new files and then uploading
then daily/weekly onto Commons. That storage area would have to be
populated by a second process. It's certainly doable, but it's tricky.
Let's remember that there are 534,644 SVG files on Commons, suggesting that
as many as 100,000 could end up being run through this process. Now,
obviously, if we end up with 100,000s of new file versions uploaded, we are
simply victims of our own success: but unlike interface translation it's
not clear that even 1% of those updates will ever do any good at all -
there's no known use case already in place. One solution could be to only
pass SVGs being displayed in the "wrong" language on a wiki onto
Translatewiki.net but, I'm keen that image translation be possible with
immediacy. Although the lag-based process is neat, I would like casual
users to be able to translate on-the-spot and with immediate effect, e.g.
when they go to reuse a not-yet-translated SVG on their home wiki, without
necessitating registration on Translatewiki.net and/or some kind of
processing lag. There's probably a strong case for having *both* a local
translation page - for casual users - *and* a Translatewiki.net process to
allow for power translation. However, I would argue that the former is more
important than the latter.

To answer Gerard's query, I never intended the prototype to be properly
reviewed, but it did generate an amount of attention and certainly
fulfilled its role as a proof of concept.

Regards,
Harry (User:Jarry1250)
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