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hashar+wmf at free

Mar 1, 2012, 1:35 AM

Post #1 of 22 (1423 views)
Permalink
diff colors

> The new diff colors have been temporarily reverted. Trevor and Timo
> plan to spend some time looking into the subject. See:
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/112750

So we are back again to bike shedding the diff colors :-)


The revert reopens bug 11374 which is about red text on green
background. Fix by MaxSem, in r94429, was to make that text black with
a different background.

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/11374
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/94429

Can we at least put that fix back?



As for the diff colors, we had a long discussion on r105280 as well as
on IRC. It would have been great to ask around before reverting that
change, I am not sure it was that urgent. Anyway, can you please poke
Brandon Harris about it? He explained the choice of colors on r106884:

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/106884#c28165



The long discussion thread about having green on left or right side. You
can probably skip that read.
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/105280


--
Antoine "hashar" Musso


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innocentkiller at gmail

Mar 1, 2012, 7:12 AM

Post #2 of 22 (1385 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 4:35 AM, Antoine Musso <hashar+wmf [at] free> wrote:
> As for the diff colors, we had a long discussion on r105280 as well as on
> IRC.  It would have been great to ask around before reverting that change,
>  I am not sure it was that urgent.  Anyway, can you please poke Brandon
> Harris about it?  He explained the choice of colors on r106884:
>

For what it's worth, there was a pretty heated discussion about this
again last night on IRC--complaints came in and then Trevor voiced
concern about the decisions made in 1.19 so Timo reverted. You
must've been asleep ;-)

I pointed out that it would've been nice if Trevor had commented back
when this was going on, and he said he honestly missed the discussion
or he would've joined at the time.

Like I said on IRC yesterday: I don't care what colors we choose. At
all. I *do* think there should be consensus before moving forward though,
and perhaps it'd be worth writing up an RFC to get wider input and allow
everyone to voice their opinions at length (bugzilla is a terrible forum
for this).

As trunk stands, we've restored the status quo from 1.18 and below, so
I think it's best to keep things as-is until a decision is made.

-Chad

PS: These are just my common sense suggestions, feel free to ignore
them...I have no intentions of involving myself in actual debate.

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tparscal at wikimedia

Mar 1, 2012, 10:18 AM

Post #3 of 22 (1435 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

Timo and I are going to come up with a patch that can solve the same
problems that these reverted changes were trying to solve, and do so
without regressing the accessibility of the site. I noted that the changes
broke at least two rules:

1. Don't rely on color along
2. Contrast ratio between background and foreground colors on the changed
text portion of a diff is not high enough

Timo and I are coming up with a patch today.

This is not bike shedding. We are talking about colors. But it's not to do
with personal preferences. It's to do with functionality and
accessibility. The patch offered new functionality by rendering whitespace
changes and making it easier to see a changed period or other small
punctuation. The patch also violated some accessibility guidelines[1].

- Trevor

[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_interface_guidelines#Accessibility

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Chad <innocentkiller [at] gmail> wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 4:35 AM, Antoine Musso <hashar+wmf [at] free> wrote:
> > As for the diff colors, we had a long discussion on r105280 as well as on
> > IRC. It would have been great to ask around before reverting that
> change,
> > I am not sure it was that urgent. Anyway, can you please poke Brandon
> > Harris about it? He explained the choice of colors on r106884:
> >
>
> For what it's worth, there was a pretty heated discussion about this
> again last night on IRC--complaints came in and then Trevor voiced
> concern about the decisions made in 1.19 so Timo reverted. You
> must've been asleep ;-)
>
> I pointed out that it would've been nice if Trevor had commented back
> when this was going on, and he said he honestly missed the discussion
> or he would've joined at the time.
>
> Like I said on IRC yesterday: I don't care what colors we choose. At
> all. I *do* think there should be consensus before moving forward though,
> and perhaps it'd be worth writing up an RFC to get wider input and allow
> everyone to voice their opinions at length (bugzilla is a terrible forum
> for this).
>
> As trunk stands, we've restored the status quo from 1.18 and below, so
> I think it's best to keep things as-is until a decision is made.
>
> -Chad
>
> PS: These are just my common sense suggestions, feel free to ignore
> them...I have no intentions of involving myself in actual debate.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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mail at tgries

Mar 1, 2012, 10:38 AM

Post #4 of 22 (1386 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

Am 01.03.2012 19:18, schrieb Trevor Parscal:
> 2. Contrast ratio between background and foreground colors on the changed
> text portion of a diff is not high enough
>
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_colors#X11_color_names
dark background colours ==> bold white (text) colour
Attachments: signature.asc (0.48 KB)


maxsem.wiki at gmail

Mar 1, 2012, 11:07 AM

Post #5 of 22 (1385 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

On 01.03.2012, 22:38 Thomas wrote:

> Am 01.03.2012 19:18, schrieb Trevor Parscal:
>> 2. Contrast ratio between background and foreground colors on the changed
>> text portion of a diff is not high enough
>>
> see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_colors#X11_color_names
> dark background colours ==> bold white (text) colour


Aieeeee! :(

--
Best regards,
Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])


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tparscal at wikimedia

Mar 1, 2012, 1:38 PM

Post #6 of 22 (1385 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

I've gone ahead and resolved bug #11374 after committing r112836.

Screenshot of new diff styles:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148

Brandon and I talked about the colors and the way color-blind people will
perceive them - this color set provides the best cross-cultural and
accessible approach so far. The design also improves contrast issues and
draw attention to the changed portions better than any previous versions.

- Trevor

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Max Semenik <maxsem.wiki [at] gmail> wrote:

> On 01.03.2012, 22:38 Thomas wrote:
>
> > Am 01.03.2012 19:18, schrieb Trevor Parscal:
> >> 2. Contrast ratio between background and foreground colors on the
> changed
> >> text portion of a diff is not high enough
> >>
> > see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_colors#X11_color_names
> > dark background colours ==> bold white (text) colour
>
>
> Aieeeee! :(
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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innocentkiller at gmail

Mar 1, 2012, 1:42 PM

Post #7 of 22 (1438 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

I said I don't care, but I do now. +1 on this design.

-Chad
On Mar 1, 2012 4:38 PM, "Trevor Parscal" <tparscal [at] wikimedia> wrote:

> I've gone ahead and resolved bug #11374 after committing r112836.
>
> Screenshot of new diff styles:
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
>
> Brandon and I talked about the colors and the way color-blind people will
> perceive them - this color set provides the best cross-cultural and
> accessible approach so far. The design also improves contrast issues and
> draw attention to the changed portions better than any previous versions.
>
> - Trevor
>
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Max Semenik <maxsem.wiki [at] gmail>
> wrote:
>
> > On 01.03.2012, 22:38 Thomas wrote:
> >
> > > Am 01.03.2012 19:18, schrieb Trevor Parscal:
> > >> 2. Contrast ratio between background and foreground colors on the
> > changed
> > >> text portion of a diff is not high enough
> > >>
> > > see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_colors#X11_color_names
> > > dark background colours ==> bold white (text) colour
> >
> >
> > Aieeeee! :(
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l [at] lists
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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dgerard at gmail

Mar 1, 2012, 1:43 PM

Post #8 of 22 (1383 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscal <tparscal [at] wikimedia> wrote:

> Screenshot of new diff styles:
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148


I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?


- d.

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bharris at wikimedia

Mar 1, 2012, 1:50 PM

Post #9 of 22 (1395 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum

On 3/1/12 1:43 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscal<tparscal [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>
>> Screenshot of new diff styles:
>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
>
>
> I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
>
>
> - d.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

--
Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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jeblad at gmail

Mar 1, 2012, 3:19 PM

Post #10 of 22 (1437 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

What about adding a couple of style markers on the body tag? For
example classes for "high-contrast", "avoid-red-green",
"avoid-green-blue", "avoid-red-yellow"... or?

Or perhaps as additional styles stright from the mediawiki-space, that
way the accessability issues can be crowdsourced?

There was also a question about scaling of content text on OTRS some
time ago. I'm not quite sure but I think the idea was to use an other
font in the content as he had to read that, while all the other text
from the portlets he learned over time so if that text was difficult
to read it didn't do so much.

The text size proposal was to add simple scaling buttons to step up
the text, and I would propose to store the set size in local storage.
The same applies to color I believe, as it should be possible to
change it without logging in.

At nowp there is a link in the sidebar to a page describing how
visually impaired can chage skin. It uses the simpleskin
http://no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Svaksynte&useskin=simple

John

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Brandon Harris <bharris [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum
>
>
> On 3/1/12 1:43 PM, David Gerard wrote:
>>
>> On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscal<tparscal [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>>
>>> Screenshot of new diff styles:
>>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
>>
>>
>>
>> I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
>>
>>
>> - d.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
> --
> Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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z at mzmcbride

Mar 1, 2012, 3:26 PM

Post #11 of 22 (1388 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

David Gerard wrote:
> On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscal <tparscal [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>> Screenshot of new diff styles:
>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
>
> I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?

I've been using <http://cupcakeipsum.com/> lately, though it tends to make
people hungry. :-)

MZMcBride



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tparscal at wikimedia

Mar 1, 2012, 3:59 PM

Post #12 of 22 (1383 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

It's hipster lorem ipsum.

http://hipsteripsum.me/

- Trevor

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 1:43 PM, David Gerard <dgerard [at] gmail> wrote:

> On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscal <tparscal [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>
> > Screenshot of new diff styles:
> > https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
>
>
> I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
>
>
> - d.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
_______________________________________________
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lists at nadir-seen-fire

Mar 1, 2012, 7:03 PM

Post #13 of 22 (1437 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

Accessibility should not be a user preference.

I also do not like the idea of site specific text size change widgets:
http://webaim.org/blog/web-accessibility-preferences-are-for-sissies/

If you want, I can even dig up the full discussion I had with CCA that
ended in them dropping the text resize widget from their wiki's design ;).

On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 15:19:48 -0800, John Erling Blad <jeblad [at] gmail>
wrote:

> What about adding a couple of style markers on the body tag? For
> example classes for "high-contrast", "avoid-red-green",
> "avoid-green-blue", "avoid-red-yellow"... or?
>
> Or perhaps as additional styles stright from the mediawiki-space, that
> way the accessability issues can be crowdsourced?
>
> There was also a question about scaling of content text on OTRS some
> time ago. I'm not quite sure but I think the idea was to use an other
> font in the content as he had to read that, while all the other text
> from the portlets he learned over time so if that text was difficult
> to read it didn't do so much.
>
> The text size proposal was to add simple scaling buttons to step up
> the text, and I would propose to store the set size in local storage.
> The same applies to color I believe, as it should be possible to
> change it without logging in.
>
> At nowp there is a link in the sidebar to a page describing how
> visually impaired can chage skin. It uses the simpleskin
> http://no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Svaksynte&useskin=simple
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Brandon Harris <bharris [at] wikimedia>
> wrote:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum
>>
>>
>> On 3/1/12 1:43 PM, David Gerard wrote:
>>>
>>> On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscal<tparscal [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Screenshot of new diff styles:
>>>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
>>>
>>>
>>> - d.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
>>
>> Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


--
~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]

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jeblad at gmail

Mar 2, 2012, 12:56 AM

Post #14 of 22 (1434 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

You can not design for one size fits all when it comes to
accessibility, its simply not possible.

John

On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 4:03 AM, Daniel Friesen
<lists [at] nadir-seen-fire> wrote:
> Accessibility should not be a user preference.
>
> I also do not like the idea of site specific text size change widgets:
> http://webaim.org/blog/web-accessibility-preferences-are-for-sissies/
>
> If you want, I can even dig up the full discussion I had with CCA that ended
> in them dropping the text resize widget from their wiki's design ;).
>
>
> On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 15:19:48 -0800, John Erling Blad <jeblad [at] gmail>
> wrote:
>
>> What about adding a couple of style markers on the body tag? For
>> example classes for "high-contrast", "avoid-red-green",
>> "avoid-green-blue", "avoid-red-yellow"... or?
>>
>> Or perhaps as additional styles stright from the mediawiki-space, that
>> way the accessability issues can be crowdsourced?
>>
>> There was also a question about scaling of content text on OTRS some
>> time ago. I'm not quite sure but I think the idea was to use an other
>> font in the content as he had to read that, while all the other text
>> from the portlets he learned over time so if that text was difficult
>> to read it didn't do so much.
>>
>> The text size proposal was to add simple scaling buttons to step up
>> the text, and I would propose to store the set size in local storage.
>> The same applies to color I believe, as it should be possible to
>> change it without logging in.
>>
>> At nowp there is a link in the sidebar to a page describing how
>> visually impaired can chage skin. It uses the simpleskin
>>
>> http://no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Svaksynte&useskin=simple
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Brandon Harris <bharris [at] wikimedia>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/1/12 1:43 PM, David Gerard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscal<tparscal [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Screenshot of new diff styles:
>>>>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - d.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
>>>
>>> Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
>
> --
> ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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lists at nadir-seen-fire

Mar 2, 2012, 11:19 AM

Post #15 of 22 (1388 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

That's what browser preferences are for. NOT website preferences.

A lot of work has gone into technologies that allow browsers to display
the same page in different ways to allow the people with different
accessibility issues that conflict with each other to read the same
content.

The moment you're trying to do 'accessibility' by means of a preference
for your website, you are no longer doing accessibility. Accessibility is
not a site preference, it's a fact that applies to the user browsing the
entire Internet. Accessibility is not fixed if the user has to change a
preference at every single website they visit.

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 00:56:27 -0800, John Erling Blad <jeblad [at] gmail>
wrote:

> You can not design for one size fits all when it comes to
> accessibility, its simply not possible.
>
> John
>
> On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 4:03 AM, Daniel Friesen
> <lists [at] nadir-seen-fire> wrote:
>> Accessibility should not be a user preference.
>>
>> I also do not like the idea of site specific text size change widgets:
>> http://webaim.org/blog/web-accessibility-preferences-are-for-sissies/
>>
>> If you want, I can even dig up the full discussion I had with CCA that
>> ended
>> in them dropping the text resize widget from their wiki's design ;).
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 15:19:48 -0800, John Erling Blad <jeblad [at] gmail>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What about adding a couple of style markers on the body tag? For
>>> example classes for "high-contrast", "avoid-red-green",
>>> "avoid-green-blue", "avoid-red-yellow"... or?
>>>
>>> Or perhaps as additional styles stright from the mediawiki-space, that
>>> way the accessability issues can be crowdsourced?
>>>
>>> There was also a question about scaling of content text on OTRS some
>>> time ago. I'm not quite sure but I think the idea was to use an other
>>> font in the content as he had to read that, while all the other text
>>> from the portlets he learned over time so if that text was difficult
>>> to read it didn't do so much.
>>>
>>> The text size proposal was to add simple scaling buttons to step up
>>> the text, and I would propose to store the set size in local storage.
>>> The same applies to color I believe, as it should be possible to
>>> change it without logging in.
>>>
>>> At nowp there is a link in the sidebar to a page describing how
>>> visually impaired can chage skin. It uses the simpleskin
>>>
>>> http://no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Svaksynte&useskin=simple
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Brandon Harris <bharris [at] wikimedia>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/1/12 1:43 PM, David Gerard wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscal<tparscal [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Screenshot of new diff styles:
>>>>>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - d.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>>>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>
>>>> Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]
>>
>>
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jeblad at gmail

Mar 2, 2012, 11:28 AM

Post #16 of 22 (1432 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

Contact the organizations for visually impaired people, read W3
accessibility guidelines, and make sure the site works as far as
possible. If anyone likes to nag on the browser folks for a better
accessibility solution - fine - but fix the skins _now_ and don't wait
for some future solution.

Thanks, thats all from me.

John

On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Daniel Friesen
<lists [at] nadir-seen-fire> wrote:
> That's what browser preferences are for. NOT website preferences.
>
> A lot of work has gone into technologies that allow browsers to display the
> same page in different ways to allow the people with different accessibility
> issues that conflict with each other to read the same content.
>
> The moment you're trying to do 'accessibility' by means of a preference for
> your website, you are no longer doing accessibility. Accessibility is not a
> site preference, it's a fact that applies to the user browsing the entire
> Internet. Accessibility is not fixed if the user has to change a preference
> at every single website they visit.
>
>
> On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 00:56:27 -0800, John Erling Blad <jeblad [at] gmail>
> wrote:
>
>> You can not design for one size fits all when it comes to
>> accessibility, its simply not possible.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 4:03 AM, Daniel Friesen
>> <lists [at] nadir-seen-fire> wrote:
>>>
>>> Accessibility should not be a user preference.
>>>
>>> I also do not like the idea of site specific text size change widgets:
>>> http://webaim.org/blog/web-accessibility-preferences-are-for-sissies/
>>>
>>> If you want, I can even dig up the full discussion I had with CCA that
>>> ended
>>> in them dropping the text resize widget from their wiki's design ;).
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 01 Mar 2012 15:19:48 -0800, John Erling Blad <jeblad [at] gmail>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What about adding a couple of style markers on the body tag? For
>>>> example classes for "high-contrast", "avoid-red-green",
>>>> "avoid-green-blue", "avoid-red-yellow"... or?
>>>>
>>>> Or perhaps as additional styles stright from the mediawiki-space, that
>>>> way the accessability issues can be crowdsourced?
>>>>
>>>> There was also a question about scaling of content text on OTRS some
>>>> time ago. I'm not quite sure but I think the idea was to use an other
>>>> font in the content as he had to read that, while all the other text
>>>> from the portlets he learned over time so if that text was difficult
>>>> to read it didn't do so much.
>>>>
>>>> The text size proposal was to add simple scaling buttons to step up
>>>> the text, and I would propose to store the set size in local storage.
>>>> The same applies to color I believe, as it should be possible to
>>>> change it without logging in.
>>>>
>>>> At nowp there is a link in the sidebar to a page describing how
>>>> visually impaired can chage skin. It uses the simpleskin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://no.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Svaksynte&useskin=simple
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 10:50 PM, Brandon Harris <bharris [at] wikimedia>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/1/12 1:43 PM, David Gerard wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1 March 2012 21:38, Trevor Parscal<tparscal [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Screenshot of new diff styles:
>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I gotta ask - where's the lorem ipsum from?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - d.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>>>>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>>
>>>>> Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>>>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
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>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
>
> --
> ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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hashar+wmf at free

Mar 2, 2012, 2:31 PM

Post #17 of 22 (1380 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

Le 01/03/12 22:38, Trevor Parscal a crit :
> I've gone ahead and resolved bug #11374 after committing r112836.
>
> Screenshot of new diff styles:
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
>
> Brandon and I talked about the colors and the way color-blind people will
> perceive them - this color set provides the best cross-cultural and
> accessible approach so far. The design also improves contrast issues and
> draw attention to the changed portions better than any previous versions.

I must say you rocks. This make the diff page more pleasant to use and
give it a modern taste.

Thanks 8-)


--
Antoine "hashar" Musso


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erwin at darcoury

Mar 2, 2012, 2:59 PM

Post #18 of 22 (1431 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

On 02-03-2012 23:31, Antoine Musso wrote:
> Le 01/03/12 22:38, Trevor Parscal a crit :
>> I've gone ahead and resolved bug #11374 after committing r112836.
>>
>> Screenshot of new diff styles:
>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
>>
>> Brandon and I talked about the colors and the way color-blind people will
>> perceive them - this color set provides the best cross-cultural and
>> accessible approach so far. The design also improves contrast issues and
>> draw attention to the changed portions better than any previous versions.
>
> I must say you rocks. This make the diff page more pleasant to use and
> give it a modern taste.
>
> Thanks 8-)

I do have some issues. I like the general design, but spacing needs
serious tweaking; there is too much space around the text. The outer
border causes mis-alignment of text. And the borders for .diffchange
overlaps text between two changes (1) (this could be solved by using
top/bottom border only).

(1) http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Diffs-r112853.png

--
Erwin Dokter


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tparscal at wikimedia

Mar 2, 2012, 4:11 PM

Post #19 of 22 (1435 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

Erwin - what you are seeing is very strange. I tried to re-create it, but
you have other styles conflicting and causing problems. For instance, the
use of red text for the changed text is gone int he latest code. You may
also have other strange styles which may be affecting layout. Attached is
how that changeset looked on my localhost.

- Trevor
On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Erwin Dokter <erwin [at] darcoury> wrote:

> On 02-03-2012 23:31, Antoine Musso wrote:
>
>> Le 01/03/12 22:38, Trevor Parscal a crit :
>>
>>> I've gone ahead and resolved bug #11374 after committing r112836.
>>>
>>> Screenshot of new diff styles:
>>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.**org/attachment.cgi?id=10148<https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148>
>>>
>>> Brandon and I talked about the colors and the way color-blind people will
>>> perceive them - this color set provides the best cross-cultural and
>>> accessible approach so far. The design also improves contrast issues and
>>> draw attention to the changed portions better than any previous versions.
>>>
>>
>> I must say you rocks. This make the diff page more pleasant to use and
>> give it a modern taste.
>>
>> Thanks 8-)
>>
>
> I do have some issues. I like the general design, but spacing needs
> serious tweaking; there is too much space around the text. The outer border
> causes mis-alignment of text. And the borders for .diffchange overlaps text
> between two changes (1) (this could be solved by using top/bottom border
> only).
>
> (1) http://commons.wikimedia.org/**wiki/File:Diffs-r112853.png<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Diffs-r112853.png>
>
> --
> Erwin Dokter
>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l>
>
Attachments: Screen Shot 2012-03-02 at 4.09.39 PM.png (20.4 KB)


erwin at darcoury

Mar 3, 2012, 12:18 AM

Post #20 of 22 (1363 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

On 03-03-2012 01:11, Trevor Parscal wrote:
> Erwin - what you are seeing is very strange. I tried to re-create it, but
> you have other styles conflicting and causing problems. For instance, the
> use of red text for the changed text is gone int he latest code. You may
> also have other strange styles which may be affecting layout. Attached is
> how that changeset looked on my localhost.
>
> - Trevor

The only styling that may be conflicting is the original core styling.
I'll try to filter that out and post the result. BTW, my screenshot was
taken with Chrome 17.

--
Erwin Dokter


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steven.walling at gmail

Mar 3, 2012, 8:15 PM

Post #21 of 22 (1340 views)
Permalink
diff colors [In reply to]

On Thursday, March 1, 2012, Trevor Parscal <tparscal [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> I've gone ahead and resolved bug #11374 after committing r112836.
>
> Screenshot of new diff styles:
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
>
> Brandon and I talked about the colors and the way color-blind people will
> perceive them - this color set provides the best cross-cultural and
> accessible approach so far. The design also improves contrast issues and
> draw attention to the changed portions better than any previous versions.
>
> - Trevor

I *really* like this design. Much better than the current diff style, and
not just for the color blind. ;-) Accentuating changed phrases more
strongly and removing color where unnecessary makes it much easier to scan
a diff.

Just my 2 cents,

Steven
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tparscal at wikimedia

Mar 5, 2012, 9:19 AM

Post #22 of 22 (1340 views)
Permalink
Re: diff colors [In reply to]

As I've said eslewhere, using top/bottom borders is a problem with long
changes (not shown in his screenshot) and should be avoided. The original
design (r112836) had this flaw, and was later fixed (r112853).

The spacing issues need attention for sure, I will look at them today.

- Trevor

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Steven Walling <steven.walling [at] gmail>wrote:

> On Thursday, March 1, 2012, Trevor Parscal <tparscal [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> > I've gone ahead and resolved bug #11374 after committing r112836.
> >
> > Screenshot of new diff styles:
> > https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
> >
> > Brandon and I talked about the colors and the way color-blind people will
> > perceive them - this color set provides the best cross-cultural and
> > accessible approach so far. The design also improves contrast issues and
> > draw attention to the changed portions better than any previous versions.
> >
> > - Trevor
>
> I *really* like this design. Much better than the current diff style, and
> not just for the color blind. ;-) Accentuating changed phrases more
> strongly and removing color where unnecessary makes it much easier to scan
> a diff.
>
> Just my 2 cents,
>
> Steven
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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