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z at mzmcbride

Jan 14, 2012, 11:33 AM

Post #1 of 21 (2188 views)
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SOPA banner implementation

Hi.

Skimming <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Action>,
it seems inevitable that some kind of banner (or "blackout" banner, which is
apparently equivalent to an extra-large banner) will be implemented.

The question becomes: how will this be implemented? I assume some kind of
CentralNotice banner with some CSS absolute positioning or something? Is
that right? Or will it be part of a separate extension?

Primarily I'd like to know if "#siteNotice {display:none !important;}" will
continue to work. If so, there's no further action that needs to be taken.
If it's going to be put into a weird extension or something, I'd personally
favor an edit count check or a "leave me alone" user preference. The
regulars really don't need to be bothered by this obnoxiousness.

And, click-through banner or not, I think obscuring Special:UserLogin is a
poor idea.

I'm not quite sure who's working on this from the tech side, but if anyone
has details about the (proposed) banner's implementation and could share,
that'd be great.

MZMcBride



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erik at wikimedia

Jan 15, 2012, 5:31 PM

Post #2 of 21 (2150 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 11:33 AM, MZMcBride <z [at] mzmcbride> wrote:
> The question becomes: how will this be implemented? I assume some kind of
> CentralNotice banner with some CSS absolute positioning or something? Is
> that right? Or will it be part of a separate extension?

What's currently under primary consideration is a CN implementation
geo-located to US visitors. First early prototype here:

http://test.wikipedia.org/?banner=blackout

Messaging and design will still change, of course. We'll be doing a
dev/design/testing/QA sprint tomorrow starting at 1PM pacific time,
with remote participation on #wikimedia-sopa on irc.freenode.net.

As for disabling, the community vote currently seems to lean against a
simple clickthrough, but we will likely preserve some emergency access
options, including user CSS/JSS based ones (although not necessarily
exactly the same ones as worked during the fundraiser).
--
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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tstarling at wikimedia

Jan 15, 2012, 5:34 PM

Post #3 of 21 (2157 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

On 15/01/12 06:33, MZMcBride wrote:
> Hi.
>
> Skimming <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Action>,
> it seems inevitable that some kind of banner (or "blackout" banner, which is
> apparently equivalent to an extra-large banner) will be implemented.
>
> The question becomes: how will this be implemented? I assume some kind of
> CentralNotice banner with some CSS absolute positioning or something? Is
> that right? Or will it be part of a separate extension?

I am not aware of any such discussion. I suppose the underlying
content could be hidden by just overlaying a blackout div with a high
z-index, but that would cause the content to appear while the site is
loading, to be removed later, and the scrollbars would be visible.

The admins of the Italian Wikipedia did overlay a div for their
protest, but they additionally hid the content div and adjusted some
overflows to avoid scrolling, using site CSS. This avoided flickering
of the underlying content.

There's a number of other ways it could be done. For example the Squid
configuration could be changed, either to display alternative HTML as
a 403 error message, or to redirect the whole site to some specific page.

I think the SOPA discussion pages (including Jimmy's talk page) should
be visible throughout the protest. With the Italian Wikipedia protest,
it was fairly difficult for non-technical users to find out who was
responsible for the protest and what level of support it enjoyed.

Whichever way it's done, $wgGroupPermissions should be changed to
disallow editing, similar to what we do with closed wikis
(closed.dblist). If we're going to tell all the editors to have a day
off, it's important that the we don't leave any holes allowing
vandalbots to edit.

Read-only mode ($wgReadOnly etc.) should not be set since it may cause
unintended server issues, affecting wikis other that the English
Wikipedia.

> Primarily I'd like to know if "#siteNotice {display:none !important;}" will
> continue to work. If so, there's no further action that needs to be taken.
> If it's going to be put into a weird extension or something, I'd personally
> favor an edit count check or a "leave me alone" user preference. The
> regulars really don't need to be bothered by this obnoxiousness.
>
> And, click-through banner or not, I think obscuring Special:UserLogin is a
> poor idea.

You should raise this on the wiki. I don't see any discussion there
about whether logged-in users should be allowed to view the site.

-- Tim Starling


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z at mzmcbride

Jan 15, 2012, 6:00 PM

Post #4 of 21 (2151 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

Erik Moeller wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 11:33 AM, MZMcBride <z [at] mzmcbride> wrote:
>> The question becomes: how will this be implemented? I assume some kind of
>> CentralNotice banner with some CSS absolute positioning or something? Is
>> that right? Or will it be part of a separate extension?
>
> What's currently under primary consideration is a CN implementation
> geo-located to US visitors. First early prototype here:
>
> http://test.wikipedia.org/?banner=blackout
>
> Messaging and design will still change, of course. We'll be doing a
> dev/design/testing/QA sprint tomorrow starting at 1PM pacific time,
> with remote participation on #wikimedia-sopa on irc.freenode.net.
>
> As for disabling, the community vote currently seems to lean against a
> simple clickthrough, but we will likely preserve some emergency access
> options, including user CSS/JSS based ones (although not necessarily
> exactly the same ones as worked during the fundraiser).

I don't think Wikimedia ops can be complicit in turning off editing like
that. Ops operates under the exact opposite goal, doesn't it? To ensure that
the site is continually running, accessible, functioning as much as humanly
possible?

I was under the impression that any SOPA-related action was simply going to
be an extra-large and obnoxious banner with some kind of dismissability.
Removing the ability to edit seems to cross a much larger line. Ops is
supposed to and almost always has acted as a safeguard against insane
community ideas (where insane is equivalent to pushing aside core
principles). The ability for anyone to be able to edit is a core principle.
I'd be awfully cautious about simply throwing it aside intentionally.

Tim makes a good point about who the intended target is. I don't know if
that's been discussed on-wiki, but someone should probably check.

MZMcBride



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rlane32 at gmail

Jan 15, 2012, 6:10 PM

Post #5 of 21 (2153 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

> I don't think Wikimedia ops can be complicit in turning off editing like
> that. Ops operates under the exact opposite goal, doesn't it? To ensure that
> the site is continually running, accessible, functioning as much as humanly
> possible?
>
> I was under the impression that any SOPA-related action was simply going to
> be an extra-large and obnoxious banner with some kind of dismissability.
> Removing the ability to edit seems to cross a much larger line. Ops is
> supposed to and almost always has acted as a safeguard against insane
> community ideas (where insane is equivalent to pushing aside core
> principles). The ability for anyone to be able to edit is a core principle.
> I'd be awfully cautious about simply throwing it aside intentionally.
>
> Tim makes a good point about who the intended target is. I don't know if
> that's been discussed on-wiki, but someone should probably check.
>

So, we could ignore the community's wishes. Yes, we've done so in the
past, when the request was obviously detrimental to the site. We're
the last safety valve of sanity. Obviously, we take a major risk doing
so, and should very, very rarely do this.

In this case, though, I don't feel that the community's wish is
insane. In fact, I wholly support it. If SOPA passes, all of our sites
are in jeopardy. A one day blackout is completely reasonable.

Bottom line, don't expect ops to stop this from occurring.

- Ryan

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krinklemail at gmail

Jan 15, 2012, 6:30 PM

Post #6 of 21 (2157 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:34 AM, Tim Starling <tstarling [at] wikimedia>wrote:

> On 15/01/12 06:33, MZMcBride wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > Skimming <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Action
> >,
> > it seems inevitable that some kind of banner (or "blackout" banner,
> which is
> > apparently equivalent to an extra-large banner) will be implemented.
> >
> > The question becomes: how will this be implemented? I assume some kind of
> > CentralNotice banner with some CSS absolute positioning or something? Is
> > that right? Or will it be part of a separate extension?
>
> I am not aware of any such discussion. I suppose the underlying
> content could be hidden by just overlaying a blackout div with a high
> z-index, but that would cause the content to appear while the site is
> loading, to be removed later, and the scrollbars would be visible.
>
>
I've solved the scroll issue in my fork:
https://test.wikipedia.org/?banner=SOPA_blackout_alt
(fork of https://test.wikipedia.org/?banner=blackout)

Using overflow:hidden on <body> while banner is visible.


On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:34 AM, Tim Starling <tstarling [at] wikimedia>
wrote:

> On 15/01/12 06:33, MZMcBride wrote:
> > Primarily I'd like to know if "#siteNotice {display:none !important;}"
> will
> > continue to work. If so, there's no further action that needs to be
> taken.
> > If it's going to be put into a weird extension or something, I'd
> personally
> > favor an edit count check or a "leave me alone" user preference. The
> > regulars really don't need to be bothered by this obnoxiousness.
> >
> > And, click-through banner or not, I think obscuring Special:UserLogin is
> a
> > poor idea.
>
> You should raise this on the wiki. I don't see any discussion there
> about whether logged-in users should be allowed to view the site.


The default behavior taken with central notices is a close button
which will set a cookie. Once the cookie is set, the banner
is no longer shown.

Right now the test-wiki banner is using CentralNotice. However
the overlay is inserted outside #centralNotice due to layout constraints.
(although those could perhaps be worked around)

Krinkle
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tstarling at wikimedia

Jan 15, 2012, 7:14 PM

Post #7 of 21 (2150 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

On 16/01/12 13:00, MZMcBride wrote:
> I don't think Wikimedia ops can be complicit in turning off editing like
> that. Ops operates under the exact opposite goal, doesn't it? To ensure that
> the site is continually running, accessible, functioning as much as humanly
> possible?

Whatever their goals, the ops team are Foundation staff members and
ignoring direct requests from management would be insubordination.

In cases of conflict between the Foundation and the community, ops
(and Engineering more broadly) can take a role of mediation. But when
the community and the Foundation want the same thing, as appears to be
the case here, I don't think it would be appropriate for ops to take a
contrary position.

-- Tim Starling


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tstarling at wikimedia

Jan 15, 2012, 7:23 PM

Post #8 of 21 (2151 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

On 16/01/12 13:30, Krinkle wrote:
> The default behavior taken with central notices is a close button
> which will set a cookie. Once the cookie is set, the banner
> is no longer shown.

The "soft blackout" option on WP:SOPA has only 74 support votes (30
oppose), compared to 519 support votes (77 oppose) for a "full
blackout", i.e. without a close button.

-- Tim Starling


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rkaldari at wikimedia

Jan 15, 2012, 9:49 PM

Post #9 of 21 (2140 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

As it looks like we will most likely be using CentralNotice for the
blackout (for a variety of reasons - easy scheduling, geotargeting,
caching, doesn't interfere with site indexing by Google, etc.), you will
likely be able to bypass the blackout simply by turning off Javascript.
There has been discussion of taking more extreme measures, but I'm not
sure how likely any of them are to be implemented. It's also likely that
the mobile site will not be blacked-out since they are launching a new
interface right around that time, but you'd have to ask Tomasz about that.

On the issue of cookies, that is actually a tricky detail to implement.
Right now, if you have the cookie set to hide CentralNotice banners, it
will not show you the blackout (or any other banners). I was thinking we
could work around this by adding some JS to Common.js on the 18th that
resets that cookie for everyone. The cache on Common.js is only 5
minutes client-side, but how long is the cache on the server-side? Does
that sound like a good solution?

Ryan Kaldari

On 1/15/12 7:23 PM, Tim Starling wrote:
> On 16/01/12 13:30, Krinkle wrote:
>> The default behavior taken with central notices is a close button
>> which will set a cookie. Once the cookie is set, the banner
>> is no longer shown.
> The "soft blackout" option on WP:SOPA has only 74 support votes (30
> oppose), compared to 519 support votes (77 oppose) for a "full
> blackout", i.e. without a close button.
>
> -- Tim Starling
>
>
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Platonides at gmail

Jan 16, 2012, 2:40 PM

Post #10 of 21 (2123 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

On 16/01/12 06:49, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
> On the issue of cookies, that is actually a tricky detail to implement.
> Right now, if you have the cookie set to hide CentralNotice banners, it
> will not show you the blackout (or any other banners). I was thinking we
> could work around this by adding some JS to Common.js on the 18th that
> resets that cookie for everyone. The cache on Common.js is only 5
> minutes client-side, but how long is the cache on the server-side? Does
> that sound like a good solution?

I think it's much easier, if you change the bannerType, the
centralnotice_fundraising cookie wouldn't block it.


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rkaldari at wikimedia

Jan 16, 2012, 4:06 PM

Post #11 of 21 (2124 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

Good idea. I'll do both just to be safe.

Ryan Kaldari

On 1/16/12 2:40 PM, Platonides wrote:
> On 16/01/12 06:49, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
>> On the issue of cookies, that is actually a tricky detail to implement.
>> Right now, if you have the cookie set to hide CentralNotice banners, it
>> will not show you the blackout (or any other banners). I was thinking we
>> could work around this by adding some JS to Common.js on the 18th that
>> resets that cookie for everyone. The cache on Common.js is only 5
>> minutes client-side, but how long is the cache on the server-side? Does
>> that sound like a good solution?
> I think it's much easier, if you change the bannerType, the
> centralnotice_fundraising cookie wouldn't block it.
>
>
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en.wp.st47 at gmail

Jan 16, 2012, 10:20 PM

Post #12 of 21 (2113 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

So, is anything interesting going to happen when Google suddenly
realizes that all of our pages are nothing but a SOPA banner?

--
Dan

On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Ryan Kaldari <rkaldari [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> Good idea. I'll do both just to be safe.
>
> Ryan Kaldari
>
> On 1/16/12 2:40 PM, Platonides wrote:
>> On 16/01/12 06:49, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
>>> On the issue of cookies, that is actually a tricky detail to implement.
>>> Right now, if you have the cookie set to hide CentralNotice banners, it
>>> will not show you the blackout (or any other banners). I was thinking we
>>> could work around this by adding some JS to Common.js on the 18th that
>>> resets that cookie for everyone. The cache on Common.js is only 5
>>> minutes client-side, but how long is the cache on the server-side? Does
>>> that sound like a good solution?
>> I think it's much easier, if you change the bannerType, the
>> centralnotice_fundraising cookie wouldn't block it.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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roan.kattouw at gmail

Jan 16, 2012, 10:23 PM

Post #13 of 21 (2106 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Dan Collins <en.wp.st47 [at] gmail> wrote:
> So, is anything interesting going to happen when Google suddenly
> realizes that all of our pages are nothing but a SOPA banner?
>
When the Italians did their blackout, Google asked us to block them
(!) from bits.wm.o (our JS/CSS domain), which in the specific case of
the Italian blackout had the effect of not honoring the blackout at
all.

I'm guessing we'd probably have to block search engines from enwiki
entirely to avoid the blackout screwing things up, yeah.

Roan

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dgerard at gmail

Jan 17, 2012, 12:15 AM

Post #14 of 21 (2111 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

Are there any plans for per-country geolocated banners? (I realise we
have only 22 hours.) Things like saying "Contact [name of ministry in
your country]" rather than expecting people to look these up
themselves.


- d.

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andreengels at gmail

Jan 17, 2012, 12:27 AM

Post #15 of 21 (2103 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:23 AM, Roan Kattouw <roan.kattouw [at] gmail> wrote:
> When the Italians did their blackout, Google asked us to block them
> (!) from bits.wm.o (our JS/CSS domain), which in the specific case of
> the Italian blackout had the effect of not honoring the blackout at
> all.
>
> I'm guessing we'd probably have to block search engines from enwiki
> entirely to avoid the blackout screwing things up, yeah.

It seems Google has advised to serve a 503 (Service unavailable) HTTP
code during blackouts to avoid them influencing their search engine.


--
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en.wp.st47 at gmail

Jan 17, 2012, 6:15 AM

Post #16 of 21 (2098 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 3:27 AM, Andre Engels <andreengels [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:23 AM, Roan Kattouw <roan.kattouw [at] gmail> wrote:
>> When the Italians did their blackout, Google asked us to block them
>> (!) from bits.wm.o (our JS/CSS domain), which in the specific case of
>> the Italian blackout had the effect of not honoring the blackout at
>> all.
>>
>> I'm guessing we'd probably have to block search engines from enwiki
>> entirely to avoid the blackout screwing things up, yeah.
>
> It seems Google has advised to serve a 503 (Service unavailable) HTTP
> code during blackouts to avoid them influencing their search engine.
>
Here, have a citation for that,

https://plus.google.com/115984868678744352358/posts/Gas8vjZ5fmB

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oscar.vives at gmail

Jan 17, 2012, 6:33 AM

Post #17 of 21 (2098 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

On 16 January 2012 02:31, Erik Moeller <erik [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 11:33 AM, MZMcBride <z [at] mzmcbride> wrote:
>> The question becomes: how will this be implemented? I assume some kind of
>> CentralNotice banner with some CSS absolute positioning or something? Is
>> that right? Or will it be part of a separate extension?
>
> What's currently under primary consideration is a CN implementation
> geo-located to US visitors. First early prototype here:
>
> http://test.wikipedia.org/?banner=blackout
>

*cough*

USA can take over hostnames ".com" from other countries.

Then blackout the frontpage of these websites with this image:
http://rojadirecta.com/IPRC_Seized_2011_02_NY.gif
http://rojadirecta.org/IPRC_Seized_2011_02_NY.gif

So SOPA is not just a US visitor concern, but worldwide.

--
--
ℱin del ℳensaje.

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andreengels at gmail

Jan 17, 2012, 8:55 AM

Post #18 of 21 (2087 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 3:33 PM, Tei <oscar.vives [at] gmail> wrote:

> *cough*
>
> USA can take over hostnames ".com" from other countries.
>
> Then blackout the frontpage of these websites with this image:
> http://rojadirecta.com/IPRC_Seized_2011_02_NY.gif
> http://rojadirecta.org/IPRC_Seized_2011_02_NY.gif
>
> So SOPA is not just a US visitor concern, but worldwide.

One more chilling case that is current at the moment is that of
Richard O'Dwyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_O%27Dwyer). He
hosted a site where people would share links to (usually pirated)
videos of television shows. He is to be extradited from the United
Kingdom to the United States for having that site, even though the
servers were in the Netherlands and he was in the UK. In Europe he
would have good chances with a defense that linking to pirated
material is not in itself illegal, but there is no such defense in the
United States.


--
André Engels, andreengels [at] gmail

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a.d.bergi at web

Jan 17, 2012, 3:36 PM

Post #19 of 21 (2072 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

Is it possible to remove the banner at the
statement/explanation/discussion pages? E.g.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Protest_gegen_SOPA looks odd with
two banners, considering both the same thing.

Bergi

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vasilvv at gmail

Jan 17, 2012, 3:40 PM

Post #20 of 21 (2075 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Bergi <a.d.bergi [at] web> wrote:
> Is it possible to remove the banner at the
> statement/explanation/discussion pages? E.g.
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Protest_gegen_SOPA looks odd with
> two banners, considering both the same thing.
>
>  Bergi

Well, my suggestion would be to remove the on-page banner. Or you
could use custom JavaScript to disable banner on given page.

--vvv

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a.d.bergi at web

Jan 17, 2012, 3:49 PM

Post #21 of 21 (2075 views)
Permalink
Re: SOPA banner implementation [In reply to]

Victor Vasiliev schrieb:
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Bergi<a.d.bergi [at] web> wrote:
>> Is it possible to remove the banner at the
>> statement/explanation/discussion pages?
>
> Well, my suggestion would be to remove the on-page banner. Or you
> could use custom JavaScript to disable banner on given page.

Ah, I see it was fixed 7 minutes after my post per
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&curid=1115645&diff=98510541&oldid=98119752.

I first thought the banner loader js should get modified, but the css
solution is better I think - as long as it doesn't get cached.

Bergi

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