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Picture rotation: what on earth?

 

 

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dgerard at gmail

Dec 8, 2011, 8:06 AM

Post #1 of 14 (670 views)
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Picture rotation: what on earth?

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:David_Gerard,_Heathrow_Terminal_5,_20110801_P1020447.jpg

Who thought this was a good idea to automate?

And how does one get this fixed? I can't even revert to a good copy.

Has a list of these been made and human-checked?


- d.

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ariel at wikimedia

Dec 8, 2011, 8:21 AM

Post #2 of 14 (652 views)
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Re: Picture rotation: what on earth? [In reply to]

I can't answer to the automated or not part, partially because I'm
missing the rest of the thread. I can tell you that because our one
server with the thumbs on it was getting dangerously low on space (and
still is), I've been purging a number of thumbs each day that are not
linked to on our projects. People viewing those images again get new
thumbs, with whatever side effects that entails.

I've been asked today by some commons folks to filter out all images
with certain exif orientation data in it from the list, so I'm looking
at that right now. If the percentage is small enough I'll do that,
though this does not resolve the problem in the mid or long term.
Thumbs are meant to be temporary data; we should not rely on any given
thumb or set of thumbs remaining around forever.

Ariel

Στις 08-12-2011, ημέρα Πεμ, και ώρα 16:06 +0000, ο/η David Gerard
έγραψε:
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:David_Gerard,_Heathrow_Terminal_5,_20110801_P1020447.jpg
>
> Who thought this was a good idea to automate?
>
> And how does one get this fixed? I can't even revert to a good copy.
>
> Has a list of these been made and human-checked?
>
>
> - d.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l



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brion at pobox

Dec 8, 2011, 8:29 AM

Post #3 of 14 (648 views)
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Re: Picture rotation: what on earth? [In reply to]

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:06 AM, David Gerard <dgerard [at] gmail> wrote:

>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:David_Gerard,_Heathrow_Terminal_5,_20110801_P1020447.jpg
>
> Who thought this was a good idea to automate?
>

Me -- most of the time that's the correct thing to do. Problems generally
only show up when someone managed to damage an individual image by rotating
it in an image editor that, somehow, preserved all the EXIF data without
updating its orientation info.

Since you uploaded it, can I ask what you used to process the image before
uploading it that might have left it in this state?

(And yes, we know that allowing you to preview & fix the rotation *during*
the upload process will be a big help. There should be a bugzilla entry
ready for comments somewhere.)


> And how does one get this fixed? I can't even revert to a good copy.
>
> Has a list of these been made and human-checked?
>

There's a rotation bot that will fix things up for you -- it was already
fixed up to understand our new auto-rotation treatments a few weeks ago.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Rotatebot

At the moment it's listed as stuck, don't know what it needs jostled.

-- brion
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delirium at hackish

Dec 8, 2011, 8:30 AM

Post #4 of 14 (648 views)
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Re: Picture rotation: what on earth? [In reply to]

On 12/8/11 5:06 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:David_Gerard,_Heathrow_Terminal_5,_20110801_P1020447.jpg
>
> Who thought this was a good idea to automate?
Since most desktop image software these days silently rotates images on
display using EXIF orientation field, and MediaWiki until now didn't, a
lot of users have been complaining that their uploaded photos display in
the wrong orientation. Going forward the change should probably reduce
unexpected behavior, but yeah, there seems to be a big backlog of
wrong-oriented images now that assumed the previous behavior...

-Mark


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dgerard at gmail

Dec 8, 2011, 9:14 AM

Post #5 of 14 (655 views)
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Re: Picture rotation: what on earth? [In reply to]

On 8 December 2011 16:29, Brion Vibber <brion [at] pobox> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:06 AM, David Gerard <dgerard [at] gmail> wrote:

>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:David_Gerard,_Heathrow_Terminal_5,_20110801_P1020447.jpg
>> Who thought this was a good idea to automate?

> Me -- most of the time that's the correct thing to do. Problems generally
> only show up when someone managed to damage an individual image by rotating
> it in an image editor that, somehow, preserved all the EXIF data without
> updating its orientation info.
> Since you uploaded it, can I ask what you used to process the image before
> uploading it that might have left it in this state?


As noted in the image, just jpegtran, set to preserve EXIF. I suppose
that was asking for trouble.

(grumble, mutter, the software should read my mind better)


> (And yes, we know that allowing you to preview & fix the rotation *during*
> the upload process will be a big help. There should be a bugzilla entry
> ready for comments somewhere.)


In this case, the problem is an old image being fixed wrong.

Perhaps some sort of editable setting, there in the image page, so
anyone who sees an inappropriately-rotated image can fix it? I have a
nasty feeling that, with the help of jpegtran, I'll have uploaded
quite a few images that will do this ...


- d.

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brion at pobox

Dec 8, 2011, 10:10 AM

Post #6 of 14 (646 views)
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Re: Picture rotation: what on earth? [In reply to]

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 9:14 AM, David Gerard <dgerard [at] gmail> wrote:


> > (And yes, we know that allowing you to preview & fix the rotation
> *during*
> > the upload process will be a big help. There should be a bugzilla entry
> > ready for comments somewhere.)
>
>
> In this case, the problem is an old image being fixed wrong.
>
> Perhaps some sort of editable setting, there in the image page, so
> anyone who sees an inappropriately-rotated image can fix it? I have a
> nasty feeling that, with the help of jpegtran, I'll have uploaded
> quite a few images that will do this ...
>

*nod* I'd love nice big "rotate left", "rotate right" buttons or something,
both during upload preview and when looking at / modifying an existing
photo.

-- brion
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mhershberger at wikimedia

Dec 8, 2011, 10:16 AM

Post #7 of 14 (648 views)
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Re: Picture rotation: what on earth? [In reply to]

See all the discussion here: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/6672

Brion Vibber <brion [at] pobox> writes:

> (And yes, we know that allowing you to preview & fix the rotation *during*
> the upload process will be a big help. There should be a bugzilla entry
> ready for comments somewhere.)

I couldn't find one, so I opened one:

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32875 - Provide a chance to undo rotation

Mark.

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Platonides at gmail

Dec 10, 2011, 8:34 AM

Post #8 of 14 (644 views)
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Re: Picture rotation: what on earth? [In reply to]

On 08/12/11 19:10, Brion Vibber wrote:
> *nod* I'd love nice big "rotate left", "rotate right" buttons or something,
> both during upload preview and when looking at / modifying an existing
> photo.
>
> -- brion

There's a "(request rotation)" link at the right of the MIME which
provides a nice dialog for that. It's provided by RotateLink Gadget.

According to its description page it "is enabled by default for all
logged-in users"
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:RotateLink


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dgerard at gmail

Dec 10, 2011, 9:17 AM

Post #9 of 14 (647 views)
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Re: Picture rotation: what on earth? [In reply to]

On 10 December 2011 16:34, Platonides <Platonides [at] gmail> wrote:

> There's a "(request rotation)" link at the right of the MIME which
> provides a nice dialog for that. It's provided by RotateLink Gadget.
> According to its description page it "is enabled by default for all
> logged-in users"
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:RotateLink


It's listed as enabled in my preferences, but no such link is visible
on the image in question.


- d.

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bryan.tongminh at gmail

Dec 10, 2011, 11:58 AM

Post #10 of 14 (644 views)
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Re: Picture rotation: what on earth? [In reply to]

Well, it looks like automatic image rotation is not as good an idea as
Brion and I originally thought. Do people think we should remove the
auto-rotation (i.e. set $wgEnableAutoRotation = false) until we have
something in MediaWiki to rotate images?


Bryan
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dgerard at gmail

Dec 10, 2011, 12:03 PM

Post #11 of 14 (642 views)
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Re: Picture rotation: what on earth? [In reply to]

On 10 December 2011 19:58, Bryan Tong Minh <bryan.tongminh [at] gmail> wrote:

> Well, it looks like automatic image rotation is not as good an idea as
> Brion and I originally thought. Do people think we should remove the
> auto-rotation (i.e. set $wgEnableAutoRotation = false) until we have
> something in MediaWiki to rotate images?


Brion's point that it's likely to hit only people like me who do
perverse things strikes me as, in fact, likely ... but is there a
lighter-weight way to do it? e.g. tell MediaWiki what rotation to
produce the thumbnail at, and make this easily user-overridable? This
avoids having to do transforms to the actual image or mess with the
file.


- d.

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Platonides at gmail

Dec 10, 2011, 3:22 PM

Post #12 of 14 (644 views)
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Re: Picture rotation: what on earth? [In reply to]

On 10/12/11 18:17, David Gerard wrote:
> It's listed as enabled in my preferences, but no such link is visible
> on the image in question.
>
>
> - d.

Works for me. But note that if the image already has a rotation request
template, _the link won't be shown_.


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Platonides at gmail

Dec 10, 2011, 3:26 PM

Post #13 of 14 (644 views)
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Re: Picture rotation: what on earth? [In reply to]

On 10/12/11 20:58, Bryan Tong Minh wrote:
> Well, it looks like automatic image rotation is not as good an idea as
> Brion and I originally thought. Do people think we should remove the
> auto-rotation (i.e. set $wgEnableAutoRotation = false) until we have
> something in MediaWiki to rotate images?
>
>
> Bryan

I expressed my opinion on
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=31504#c6
two months ago. Now there may be some "looking good only due to EXIF"
images, though.


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neilk at wikimedia

Dec 10, 2011, 4:01 PM

Post #14 of 14 (645 views)
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Re: Picture rotation: what on earth? [In reply to]

It might have been better to have a policy to grandfather in old images.
So if an image was uploaded prior to the introduction of automatic EXIF
rotation, it wouldn't be auto-rotated. But at this point where it's a
bit mixed up, I'm not sure how to fix the situation with older images.

EXIF rotation should be the default for any new images, however.

Perhaps we need a button which can do rotation in the same way as
submitting a modified wiki article.


On 12/10/11 11:58 AM, Bryan Tong Minh wrote:
> Well, it looks like automatic image rotation is not as good an idea as
> Brion and I originally thought. Do people think we should remove the
> auto-rotation (i.e. set $wgEnableAutoRotation = false) until we have
> something in MediaWiki to rotate images?
>
>
> Bryan
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--
Neil Kandalgaonkar ( ) <neilk [at] wikimedia>

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