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Dropping PHP 5.2 support

 

 

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jeroendedauw at gmail

Aug 15, 2011, 3:41 PM

Post #1 of 10 (596 views)
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Dropping PHP 5.2 support

Hey,

I'm wondering if there are any concrete plans for dropping PHP 5.2.x support
in MediaWiki. Support for these versions of PHP has been discontinued by the
PHP people a few months back, and it'll take another while before the next
MediaWiki version (1.20) hits it's release anyway. So my vote goes for
dropping support for pre 5.3 in MW 1.20, if not already planned. Then we can
finally make use of the new things introduced in 5.3, which in some cases
are really useful and right now a complete pain to implement.

Any objections or thoughts on this?

Cheers

--
Jeroen De Dauw
http://www.bn2vs.com
Don't panic. Don't be evil.
--
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brion at pobox

Aug 15, 2011, 3:45 PM

Post #2 of 10 (588 views)
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Re: Dropping PHP 5.2 support [In reply to]

On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Jeroen De Dauw <jeroendedauw [at] gmail>wrote:

> Hey,
>
> I'm wondering if there are any concrete plans for dropping PHP 5.2.x
> support
> in MediaWiki. Support for these versions of PHP has been discontinued by
> the
> PHP people a few months back, and it'll take another while before the next
> MediaWiki version (1.20) hits it's release anyway. So my vote goes for
> dropping support for pre 5.3 in MW 1.20, if not already planned. Then we
> can
> finally make use of the new things introduced in 5.3, which in some cases
> are really useful and right now a complete pain to implement.
>
> Any objections or thoughts on this?
>

Our current deployment plan is to use the HipHop compiler in production for
1.19 (maybe?) and 1.20 (definitely). HipHop currently has no support for PHP
5.3-only features such as lambda functions.

So... we'll probably want to monitor that situation. :)

-- brion
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innocentkiller at gmail

Aug 15, 2011, 3:59 PM

Post #3 of 10 (580 views)
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Re: Dropping PHP 5.2 support [In reply to]

On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Brion Vibber <brion [at] pobox> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Jeroen De Dauw <jeroendedauw [at] gmail>wrote:
>
>> Hey,
>>
>> I'm wondering if there are any concrete plans for dropping PHP 5.2.x
>> support
>> in MediaWiki. Support for these versions of PHP has been discontinued by
>> the
>> PHP people a few months back, and it'll take another while before the next
>> MediaWiki version (1.20) hits it's release anyway. So my vote goes for
>> dropping support for pre 5.3 in MW 1.20, if not already planned. Then we
>> can
>> finally make use of the new things introduced in 5.3, which in some cases
>> are really useful and right now a complete pain to implement.
>>
>> Any objections or thoughts on this?
>>
>
> Our current deployment plan is to use the HipHop compiler in production for
> 1.19 (maybe?) and 1.20 (definitely). HipHop currently has no support for PHP
> 5.3-only features such as lambda functions.
>
> So... we'll probably want to monitor that situation. :)
>

From what I understand, 5.3 support is working its way into HipHop (there's
a few outstanding pull requests relating to Namespaces, last I checked).
Speaking more generally...

5.2 is still really common out there. The PHP user community is painfully
slow at upgrading (remember the 4->5 migration?). I'd rather not break
MediaWiki for all these sites because we want some new features--nice
though they are. We just upgraded the minimum version to 5.2.x in the
1.17 release, so I don't imagine we'll bump it again probably for another
release or two. At the very least, I'd like some stats on what distros are
shipping 5.2.x vs. 5.3.x.

You're of course always allowed to use 5.3+ (heck, you can use 5.4alpha
if you're feeling particularly bold) features in your own extensions if you'd
like, just clearly mark them in the documentation so people don't wonder
why it doesn't work with their otherwise working MW.

-Chad

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jra at baylink

Aug 15, 2011, 6:38 PM

Post #4 of 10 (577 views)
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Re: Dropping PHP 5.2 support [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chad" <innocentkiller [at] gmail>

> 5.2 is still really common out there. The PHP user community is painfully
> slow at upgrading (remember the 4->5 migration?). I'd rather not break
> MediaWiki for all these sites because we want some new features--nice
> though they are. We just upgraded the minimum version to 5.2.x in the
> 1.17 release, so I don't imagine we'll bump it again probably for another
> release or two. At the very least, I'd like some stats on what distros
> are shipping 5.2.x vs. 5.3.x.

Note that I just installed 1.17 on CentOS *5.6*, and the shipping PHP there
is still 5.1.x; I had to set up epel to pull in something as new as 5.3.6
to get it to run at all.

I admit I was surprised that something as new as C5.6 didn't have a new enough
PHP for our current production release, but there you have it.

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra [at] baylink
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274

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tstarling at wikimedia

Aug 15, 2011, 7:20 PM

Post #5 of 10 (578 views)
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Re: Dropping PHP 5.2 support [In reply to]

On 16/08/11 11:38, Jay Ashworth wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chad" <innocentkiller [at] gmail>
>
>> 5.2 is still really common out there. The PHP user community is painfully
>> slow at upgrading (remember the 4->5 migration?). I'd rather not break
>> MediaWiki for all these sites because we want some new features--nice
>> though they are. We just upgraded the minimum version to 5.2.x in the
>> 1.17 release, so I don't imagine we'll bump it again probably for another
>> release or two. At the very least, I'd like some stats on what distros
>> are shipping 5.2.x vs. 5.3.x.
>
> Note that I just installed 1.17 on CentOS *5.6*, and the shipping PHP there
> is still 5.1.x; I had to set up epel to pull in something as new as 5.3.6
> to get it to run at all.
>
> I admit I was surprised that something as new as C5.6 didn't have a new enough
> PHP for our current production release, but there you have it.

CentOS 5.6 has PHP 5.3.3, but the package name is php53 not php. I
might add something about this to mediawiki.org since it's come up a
few times now.

-- Tim Starling


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jra at baylink

Aug 15, 2011, 8:18 PM

Post #6 of 10 (580 views)
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Re: Dropping PHP 5.2 support [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Starling" <tstarling [at] wikimedia>

> CentOS 5.6 has PHP 5.3.3, but the package name is php53 not php. I
> might add something about this to mediawiki.org since it's come up a
> few times now.

I think you might want to bake that note right into the installer, since
that's what was giving me a hint about what to look for. GD is actually
php-gd, too -- that's what it wanted and didn't have, IIRC.

No, wait; that wasn't enough either. :-}

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra [at] baylink
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274

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agarrett at wikimedia

Aug 15, 2011, 8:55 PM

Post #7 of 10 (580 views)
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Re: Dropping PHP 5.2 support [In reply to]

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Brion Vibber <brion [at] pobox> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Jeroen De Dauw <jeroendedauw [at] gmail>wrote:
>
>> Hey,
>>
>> I'm wondering if there are any concrete plans for dropping PHP 5.2.x
>> support
>> in MediaWiki. Support for these versions of PHP has been discontinued by
>> the
>> PHP people a few months back, and it'll take another while before the next
>> MediaWiki version (1.20) hits it's release anyway. So my vote goes for
>> dropping support for pre 5.3 in MW 1.20, if not already planned. Then we
>> can
>> finally make use of the new things introduced in 5.3, which in some cases
>> are really useful and right now a complete pain to implement.
>>
>> Any objections or thoughts on this?
>>
>
> Our current deployment plan is to use the HipHop compiler in production for
> 1.19 (maybe?) and 1.20 (definitely). HipHop currently has no support for PHP
> 5.3-only features such as lambda functions.

https://github.com/facebook/hiphop-php/commits/master/src/system/gen/php/classes/closure.cpp

:-)

--
Andrew Garrett
Wikimedia Foundation
agarrett [at] wikimedia

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dgerard at gmail

Aug 16, 2011, 12:55 AM

Post #8 of 10 (583 views)
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Re: Dropping PHP 5.2 support [In reply to]

On 16 August 2011 02:38, Jay Ashworth <jra [at] baylink> wrote:

> Note that I just installed 1.17 on CentOS *5.6*, and the shipping PHP there
> is still 5.1.x; I had to set up epel to pull in something as new as 5.3.6
> to get it to run at all.
> I admit I was surprised that something as new as C5.6 didn't have a new enough
> PHP for our current production release, but there you have it.


Yeah, I got caught by this putting 1.17 on RHEL5. I ended up compiling
PHP 5.3.6 from source just to generate a suitably up-to-date
libphp5.so. In practical terms, RHEL and its derivatives these days is
the old software graveyard Debian used to have a reputation for being.

I suppose the question is "what's on common cheap generic hosting
these days?" The people using generic hosting will be the ones without
the ability to upgrade without changing hosting company.


- d.

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happy-melon at live

Aug 20, 2011, 3:31 PM

Post #9 of 10 (561 views)
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Re: Dropping PHP 5.2 support [In reply to]

"Jeroen De Dauw" <jeroendedauw [at] gmail> wrote in message
news:CAMhmagDVn9y92XQYPCHd1Dykwup6AisWEUy-biJED5q8fzLz3g [at] mail
> Hey,
>
> Then we can finally make use of the new things introduced in 5.3, which in
> some cases
> are really useful and right now a complete pain to implement.

Could you provide some examples? Late Static Binding is an obvious one, but
are there other really valuable features?

--HM



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jeroendedauw at gmail

Aug 20, 2011, 3:38 PM

Post #10 of 10 (558 views)
Permalink
Re: Dropping PHP 5.2 support [In reply to]

Hey,

> Could you provide some examples? Late Static Binding is an obvious one,
but are there other really valuable features?

For me personally the two main things are LSB and anon-functions. If you
want to do an array map, filter, reduce, ect, operation in < 5.3, you need
to go define a named function/method, which is often just silly. Unlike LSB
you still easily do what you want to do, but it's such a pain, and makes me
wish I was writing Python or JS instead of PHP :)

Cheers

--
Jeroen De Dauw
http://www.bn2vs.com
Don't panic. Don't be evil.
--
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