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gtisza at gmail

Aug 6, 2009, 6:39 AM

Post #1 of 11 (731 views)
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site requests for Hungarian Wikipedia
Since I have run out of ideas of where to nag devs with shell access
(bugzilla is completely ignored most of the time, and mail/irc didn't
have much effect either), I'll try here.
The following are all one-line configuration changes:

Bug 14716 – Grant noratelimit right to the editor group in the
Hungarian Wikipedia (open for over a year)
Bug 19109 – Enable AbuseFilter in Hungarian Wikipedia (open for two months)
Bug 19315 – Set $wgCategoryPrefixedDefaultSortkey=false on Hungarian
Wikipedia (open for one and half month)
Bug 19885 – Restore autoreview for confirmed usergroup on huwiki
(severity:major, open for 10 days)

It would be really nice if someone could finally take a look at these,
especially the last one which completely sabotages the use of FlagRev
on huwiki (and which resulted from careless sysadmin action in the
first place).

More generally, I think the procedure for responding to site requests
(if there is a procedure at all) needs fixing. My impression is that
some requests are resolved quickly, and the rest leave the range of
whatever method shell people use to monitor new requests, and are
never picked up again (much like recent changes patroling on the
wiki). Some sort of backlog of open site requests might help the
situation. (Again, these are one-liners that need neither much thought
nor much effort, nor are they terribly frequent - there were 3 site
requests alltogether this year for huwiki, which is a top20 wikipedia
- so I'm sure it's an attention problem, not a resource problem.)

convenience links:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14716
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19109
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19315
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19885

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Simetrical+wikilist at gmail

Aug 6, 2009, 10:08 AM

Post #2 of 11 (698 views)
Permalink
Re: site requests for Hungarian Wikipedia [In reply to]
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Tisza Gergő<gtisza [at] gmail> wrote:
> More generally, I think the procedure for responding to site requests
> (if there is a procedure at all) needs fixing. My impression is that
> some requests are resolved quickly, and the rest leave the range of
> whatever method shell people use to monitor new requests, and are
> never picked up again (much like recent changes patroling on the
> wiki). Some sort of backlog of open site requests might help the
> situation. (Again, these are one-liners that need neither much thought
> nor much effort, nor are they terribly frequent - there were 3 site
> requests alltogether this year for huwiki, which is a top20 wikipedia
> - so I'm sure it's an attention problem, not a resource problem.)

Isn't Rob supposed to be doing these? This should be the full list:

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?keywords=shell&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED

There are a lot of things on there that aren't simple fixes, though.
Maybe the one-line changes are lost in all the clutter. Things like
"Enable .odt upload" or "Install PdfHandler extension" probably need
consideration and testing, and things like "Configuration files should
have versioning system" or "Support OpenID extension on all wikimedia
projects" would require nontrivial development effort.

Perhaps we should make a new component "Configuration requests",
mandate that it only be used for simple one-line changes, and ensure
that there's a good default assignee who will clear the backlog every
workday? Either by making the change, or marking LATER/WONTFIX if
it's against policy or doesn't have demonstrated consensus, or
changing the component if it's not a simple fix. Something like that.
It used to be we didn't really have the manpower to keep on top of
shell bugs, but that should no longer be true.

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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Aug 6, 2009, 10:22 AM

Post #3 of 11 (698 views)
Permalink
Re: site requests for Hungarian Wikipedia [In reply to]
Hoi,
Do the creation of new projects qualify as "configuration requests" ?
Thanks,
Gerard

PS at the moment 5 are in front of the board of trustees.. It would be cool
to have them go life by Wikimania


2009/8/6 Aryeh Gregor
<Simetrical+wikilist [at] gmail<Simetrical%2Bwikilist [at] gmail>
>

> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Tisza Gergő<gtisza [at] gmail> wrote:
> > More generally, I think the procedure for responding to site requests
> > (if there is a procedure at all) needs fixing. My impression is that
> > some requests are resolved quickly, and the rest leave the range of
> > whatever method shell people use to monitor new requests, and are
> > never picked up again (much like recent changes patroling on the
> > wiki). Some sort of backlog of open site requests might help the
> > situation. (Again, these are one-liners that need neither much thought
> > nor much effort, nor are they terribly frequent - there were 3 site
> > requests alltogether this year for huwiki, which is a top20 wikipedia
> > - so I'm sure it's an attention problem, not a resource problem.)
>
> Isn't Rob supposed to be doing these? This should be the full list:
>
>
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?keywords=shell&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED
>
> There are a lot of things on there that aren't simple fixes, though.
> Maybe the one-line changes are lost in all the clutter. Things like
> "Enable .odt upload" or "Install PdfHandler extension" probably need
> consideration and testing, and things like "Configuration files should
> have versioning system" or "Support OpenID extension on all wikimedia
> projects" would require nontrivial development effort.
>
> Perhaps we should make a new component "Configuration requests",
> mandate that it only be used for simple one-line changes, and ensure
> that there's a good default assignee who will clear the backlog every
> workday? Either by making the change, or marking LATER/WONTFIX if
> it's against policy or doesn't have demonstrated consensus, or
> changing the component if it's not a simple fix. Something like that.
> It used to be we didn't really have the manpower to keep on top of
> shell bugs, but that should no longer be true.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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rhalsell at wikimedia

Aug 6, 2009, 10:48 AM

Post #4 of 11 (695 views)
Permalink
Re: site requests for Hungarian Wikipedia [In reply to]
Creation of new projects do indeed fall under site requests. Just make
sure to link to consensus that the project is needed/required/approved.



Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> Hoi,
> Do the creation of new projects qualify as "configuration requests" ?
> Thanks,
> Gerard
>
> PS at the moment 5 are in front of the board of trustees.. It would be cool
> to have them go life by Wikimania
>
>
> 2009/8/6 Aryeh Gregor
> <Simetrical+wikilist [at] gmail<Simetrical%2Bwikilist [at] gmail>
>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Tisza Gergő<gtisza [at] gmail> wrote:
>>> More generally, I think the procedure for responding to site requests
>>> (if there is a procedure at all) needs fixing. My impression is that
>>> some requests are resolved quickly, and the rest leave the range of
>>> whatever method shell people use to monitor new requests, and are
>>> never picked up again (much like recent changes patroling on the
>>> wiki). Some sort of backlog of open site requests might help the
>>> situation. (Again, these are one-liners that need neither much thought
>>> nor much effort, nor are they terribly frequent - there were 3 site
>>> requests alltogether this year for huwiki, which is a top20 wikipedia
>>> - so I'm sure it's an attention problem, not a resource problem.)
>> Isn't Rob supposed to be doing these? This should be the full list:
>>
>>
>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?keywords=shell&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED
>>
>> There are a lot of things on there that aren't simple fixes, though.
>> Maybe the one-line changes are lost in all the clutter. Things like
>> "Enable .odt upload" or "Install PdfHandler extension" probably need
>> consideration and testing, and things like "Configuration files should
>> have versioning system" or "Support OpenID extension on all wikimedia
>> projects" would require nontrivial development effort.
>>
>> Perhaps we should make a new component "Configuration requests",
>> mandate that it only be used for simple one-line changes, and ensure
>> that there's a good default assignee who will clear the backlog every
>> workday? Either by making the change, or marking LATER/WONTFIX if
>> it's against policy or doesn't have demonstrated consensus, or
>> changing the component if it's not a simple fix. Something like that.
>> It used to be we didn't really have the manpower to keep on top of
>> shell bugs, but that should no longer be true.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


--
Rob Halsell
IT Manager and Systems Administrator
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
E-Mail: rhalsell [at] wikimedia
Office: 415.839.6885 x620
Fax: 415.882.0495

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nospam at vyznev

Aug 6, 2009, 11:12 AM

Post #5 of 11 (701 views)
Permalink
Re: site requests for Hungarian Wikipedia [In reply to]
Aryeh Gregor wrote:
>
> Perhaps we should make a new component "Configuration requests",
> mandate that it only be used for simple one-line changes, and ensure
> that there's a good default assignee who will clear the backlog every
> workday? Either by making the change, or marking LATER/WONTFIX if

Or perhaps just a new keyword for these one-line config changes? I'm
thinking either "oneliner" or "trivial" -- the latter may be usable for
two-lines changes as well ;)

Obviously, anyone tagging nontrivial requests with these keywords should
have a suitable clue-imparting implement applied to them.

(Or we could use the existing "easy" keyword, if we're not afraid of
confusing the "noob developers" with occasional configuration requests
in the "easy" bug list. I just checked, and there currently seem to be
two open bugs tagged as "easy, shell": 19310 and 19437.)

--
Ilmari Karonen

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lists at caseybrown

Aug 6, 2009, 11:14 AM

Post #6 of 11 (696 views)
Permalink
Re: site requests for Hungarian Wikipedia [In reply to]
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Rob Halsell<rhalsell [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> Creation of new projects do indeed fall under site requests.
>

...but there's also a specific tracking bug to make everyone's lives
easier. :-) <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16976>

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

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innocentkiller at gmail

Aug 6, 2009, 11:15 AM

Post #7 of 11 (697 views)
Permalink
Re: site requests for Hungarian Wikipedia [In reply to]
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Ilmari Karonen<nospam [at] vyznev> wrote:
> Aryeh Gregor wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps we should make a new component "Configuration requests",
>> mandate that it only be used for simple one-line changes, and ensure
>> that there's a good default assignee who will clear the backlog every
>> workday?  Either by making the change, or marking LATER/WONTFIX if
>
> Or perhaps just a new keyword for these one-line config changes?  I'm
> thinking either "oneliner" or "trivial" -- the latter may be usable for
> two-lines changes as well ;)
>
> Obviously, anyone tagging nontrivial requests with these keywords should
> have a suitable clue-imparting implement applied to them.
>
> (Or we could use the existing "easy" keyword, if we're not afraid of
> confusing the "noob developers" with occasional configuration requests
> in the "easy" bug list.  I just checked, and there currently seem to be
> two open bugs tagged as "easy, shell": 19310 and 19437.)
>
> --
> Ilmari Karonen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

Typically, "easy" is reserved for newbie dev stuff. If the shells (ie Rob) don't
mind, I'm sure it would be pretty easy to use it for both. Then Rob (or whoever)
can have a simple query set up for 'shell, easy' for those 1-line config changes
that can easily (through nobody's individual fault) slip through the cracks.

-Chad

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brion at wikimedia

Aug 6, 2009, 11:34 AM

Post #8 of 11 (706 views)
Permalink
Re: site requests for Hungarian Wikipedia [In reply to]
On 8/6/09 10:08 AM, Aryeh Gregor wrote:
> Perhaps we should make a new component "Configuration requests",
> mandate that it only be used for simple one-line changes, and ensure
> that there's a good default assignee who will clear the backlog every
> workday?

For reference, here's the rough current workflow:

* items get filed into Bugzilla into site requests category
* generally a couple folks will peek at it, add the 'shell' keyword or
recategorize as appropriate, and add some clarifying comments helping to
flesh out the request w/ implementation details or making sure there's
consensus
* once or twice a week I try to do a quick pass through all the
still-open reqs; the ones that are ready to go I'll stick in Rob's
queue. Ones that aren't, I may put additional comments on them to ask
for clarification.
* Rob goes through his assigned queue intermittently between other things

If there are questions about how it works or requests for more detail on
consensus, usually these responses are already put on there by the time
we reach it.

Some reqs have slipped through the cracks, unfortunately, especially
older ones which haven't come up on scans of recent bugs. :(

-- brion

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rhalsell at wikimedia

Aug 6, 2009, 11:49 AM

Post #9 of 11 (698 views)
Permalink
Re: site requests for Hungarian Wikipedia [In reply to]
All outstanding requests in the original email for this thread have been
addressed and processed to completion.

Now, I am nearly always in IRC, even when I am not at the keyboard.
While it is not a permanent solution, everyone should feel free to PM me
with any requests that seem to have been outstanding and ready for
processing a bit too long. I may not be able to get to them right that
second, but I am trying my best! =]

--
Rob Halsell
IT Manager and Systems Administrator
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
E-Mail: rhalsell [at] wikimedia
Office: 415.839.6885 x620
Fax: 415.882.0495

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Simetrical+wikilist at gmail

Aug 6, 2009, 1:44 PM

Post #10 of 11 (698 views)
Permalink
Re: site requests for Hungarian Wikipedia [In reply to]
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Brion Vibber<brion [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> For reference, here's the rough current workflow:
>
> * items get filed into Bugzilla into site requests category
> * generally a couple folks will peek at it, add the 'shell' keyword or
> recategorize as appropriate, and add some clarifying comments helping to
> flesh out the request w/ implementation details or making sure there's
> consensus
> * once or twice a week I try to do a quick pass through all the
> still-open reqs; the ones that are ready to go I'll stick in Rob's
> queue. Ones that aren't, I may put additional comments on them to ask
> for clarification.
> * Rob goes through his assigned queue intermittently between other things
>
> If there are questions about how it works or requests for more detail on
> consensus, usually these responses are already put on there by the time
> we reach it.
>
> Some reqs have slipped through the cracks, unfortunately, especially
> older ones which haven't come up on scans of recent bugs. :(

It seems like it would help if there were some way for you/Rob to get
a clear list of open issues that should be resolved soon (simple
config changes). Currently it looks like some of those get lost in a
sea of vague or hard-to-fulfill requests.

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gtisza at gmail

Aug 10, 2009, 1:20 PM

Post #11 of 11 (628 views)
Permalink
Re: site requests for Hungarian Wikipedia [In reply to]
Rob Halsell <rhalsell <at> wikimedia.org> writes:

> All outstanding requests in the original email for this thread have been
> addressed and processed to completion.

The urgent one (autoreview not working,
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19885 ) is still unsolved, with
no activity for days. Sorry for being obstinate about this, but it really is
important. It took a lot of effort to convince huwiki patrollers that flagged
revisions will be good for them and get them to use it regularly, and now it's
been a huge amount of extra work for them, for two weeks. They can't keep up
with the load for long, and I'm worried they will get fed up, and the current
technical failure will turn into a social failure, and that one is much harder
to fix.

> Now, I am nearly always in IRC, even when I am not at the keyboard.
> While it is not a permanent solution, everyone should feel free to PM me
> with any requests that seem to have been outstanding and ready for
> processing a bit too long. I may not be able to get to them right that
> second, but I am trying my best! =]

I contacted RobH [at] freenod, but got no reply. I'm not sure it was you though,
since the user did not identify himself to nickserv, and was not on any
Wikimedia-related channel. (The hostmask was n=rob [at] 5ad4934d)
If it was you, you should probably set your client to autoident so people can be
sure it is you they are talking to. If it wasn't, you can tell nickserv to guard
your nick more aggressively by /msg nickserv set enforce.


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