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brion at wikimedia Jun 30, 2009, 9:16 AM Views: 947 Permalink On templates and programming languages As many folks have noted, our current templating system works ok for simple things, but doesn't scale well -- even moderately complex conditionals or text-munging will quickly turn your template source into what appears to be line noise. And we all thought Perl was bad! ;) There's been talk of Lua as an embedded templating language for a while, and there's even an extension implementation. One advantage of Lua over other languages is that its implementation is optimized for use as an embedded language, and it looks kind of pretty. An _inherent_ disadvantage is that it's a fairly rarely-used language, so still requires special learning on potential template programmers' part. An _implementation_ disadvantage is that it currently is dependent on an external Lua binary installation -- something that probably won't be present on third-party installs, meaning Lua templates couldn't be easily copied to non-Wikimedia wikis. There are perhaps three primary alternative contenders that don't involve making up our own scripting language (something I'd dearly like to avoid): * PHP Advantage: Lots of webbish people have some experience with PHP or can easily find references. Advantage: we're pretty much guaranteed to have a PHP interpreter available. :) Disadvantage: PHP is difficult to lock down for secure execution. * JavaScript Advantage: Even more folks have been exposed to JavaScript programming, including Wikipedia power-users. Disadvantage: Server-side interpreter not guaranteed to be present. Like Lua, would either restrict our portability or would require an interpreter reimplementation. :P * Python Advantage: A Python interpreter will be present on most web servers, though not necessarily all. (Windows-based servers especially.) Wash: Python is probably better known than Lua, but not as well as PHP or JS. Disadvantage: Like PHP, Python is difficult to lock down securely. Any thoughts? Does anybody happen to have a PHP implementation of a Lua or JavaScript interpreter? ;) -- brion _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Subject User Time On templates and programming languages brion at wikimedia Jun 30, 2009, 9:16 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages innocentkiller at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 9:27 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages amir.aharoni at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 9:34 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages rarohde at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 9:40 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages vasilvv at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 9:47 AM         Re: On templates and programming languages brion at wikimedia Jun 30, 2009, 9:50 AM             Re: On templates and programming languages vasilvv at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 10:13 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages rarohde at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 9:50 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages brion at wikimedia Jun 30, 2009, 9:51 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages brion at wikimedia Jun 30, 2009, 9:53 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages tparscal at wikimedia Jun 30, 2009, 10:03 AM         Re: On templates and programming languages rarohde at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 10:09 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages removed at example Jun 30, 2009, 10:15 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages rarohde at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 10:20 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages bryan.tongminh at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 10:22 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages removed at example Jun 30, 2009, 10:24 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages rarohde at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 10:42 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages amir.aharoni at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 10:45 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages rarohde at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 10:57 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages ssanbeg at ask Jun 30, 2009, 11:00 AM         Re: On templates and programming languages questpc at rambler Jun 30, 2009, 10:42 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages Simetrical+wikilist at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 12:56 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages michael.daly at kayakwiki Jun 30, 2009, 1:04 PM         Re: On templates and programming languages thomas.dalton at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 1:38 PM         Re: On templates and programming languages tim at tim-landscheidt Jul 2, 2009, 3:14 AM             Re: On templates and programming languages tim at tim-landscheidt Jul 2, 2009, 10:26 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages brion at wikimedia Jun 30, 2009, 1:25 PM         Re: On templates and programming languages marco at harddisk Jun 30, 2009, 1:33 PM         Re: On templates and programming languages Simetrical+wikilist at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 1:42 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages Simetrical+wikilist at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 1:45 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages jared.williams1 at ntlworld Jun 30, 2009, 1:52 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages marco at harddisk Jun 30, 2009, 2:11 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages Simetrical+wikilist at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 2:16 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages Simetrical+wikilist at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 2:20 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages ssanbeg at ask Jun 30, 2009, 2:29 PM         Re: On templates and programming languages thomas.dalton at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 2:53 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages rarohde at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 3:08 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages jared.williams1 at ntlworld Jun 30, 2009, 3:12 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages removed at example Jun 30, 2009, 4:01 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages agarrett at wikimedia Jun 30, 2009, 4:16 PM         Re: On templates and programming languages brion at wikimedia Jun 30, 2009, 5:37 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages huskyr at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 4:24 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages tparscal at wikimedia Jun 30, 2009, 4:44 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages rarohde at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 5:09 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages removed at example Jun 30, 2009, 5:28 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages brion at wikimedia Jun 30, 2009, 5:33 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages thomas.dalton at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 5:34 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages innocentkiller at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 5:34 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages removed at example Jun 30, 2009, 5:41 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages thomas.dalton at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 5:43 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages removed at example Jun 30, 2009, 5:56 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages tparscal at wikimedia Jun 30, 2009, 6:02 PM         Re: On templates and programming languages randomcoder1 at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 6:21 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages Simetrical+wikilist at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 6:33 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages michael.daly at kayakwiki Jun 30, 2009, 7:11 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages michael.daly at kayakwiki Jun 30, 2009, 7:27 PM         Re: On templates and programming languages rarohde at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 7:45 PM         Re: On templates and programming languages thomas.dalton at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 9:18 PM         Re: On templates and programming languages brion at wikimedia Jul 2, 2009, 10:11 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages sergey.chernyshev at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 7:45 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages Simetrical+wikilist at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 8:46 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages tstarling at wikimedia Jun 30, 2009, 8:46 PM         Re: On templates and programming languages gmaxwell at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 9:46 PM         Re: On templates and programming languages brion at wikimedia Jul 2, 2009, 10:27 AM         Re: On templates and programming languages Platonides at gmail Jul 3, 2009, 10:00 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages michael.daly at kayakwiki Jun 30, 2009, 8:53 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages gmaxwell at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 9:26 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages gmaxwell at gmail Jun 30, 2009, 11:17 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages questpc at rambler Jun 30, 2009, 11:40 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages william.allen.simpson at gmail Jul 1, 2009, 12:50 AM         Re: On templates and programming languages gmaxwell at gmail Jul 1, 2009, 1:35 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages huskyr at gmail Jul 1, 2009, 1:44 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages jared.williams1 at ntlworld Jul 1, 2009, 4:17 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages tparscal at wikimedia Jul 1, 2009, 8:03 AM         Re: On templates and programming languages mrzmanwiki at gmail Jul 1, 2009, 10:30 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages william.allen.simpson at gmail Jul 1, 2009, 8:21 AM         Re: On templates and programming languages william.allen.simpson at gmail Jul 1, 2009, 8:26 AM             Re: On templates and programming languages lists at schwen Jul 1, 2009, 8:36 AM             Re: On templates and programming languages huskyr at gmail Jul 1, 2009, 8:37 AM         Re: On templates and programming languages gmaxwell at gmail Jul 1, 2009, 10:57 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages william.allen.simpson at gmail Jul 1, 2009, 11:08 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages Simetrical+wikilist at gmail Jul 1, 2009, 12:15 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages ssanbeg at ask Jul 1, 2009, 12:43 PM         Re: On templates and programming languages tstarling at wikimedia Jul 3, 2009, 12:13 AM             Re: On templates and programming languages Simetrical+wikilist at gmail Jul 3, 2009, 9:54 AM             Re: On templates and programming languages ssanbeg at ask Jul 6, 2009, 9:46 AM                 Re: On templates and programming languages tstarling at wikimedia Jul 8, 2009, 8:37 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages ssanbeg at ask Jul 1, 2009, 12:47 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages brion at wikimedia Jul 2, 2009, 10:08 AM         Re: On templates and programming languages michael.daly at kayakwiki Jul 2, 2009, 1:39 PM             Re: On templates and programming languages gmaxwell at gmail Jul 2, 2009, 2:34 PM             Re: On templates and programming languages brion at wikimedia Jul 2, 2009, 2:38 PM                 Re: On templates and programming languages stevagewp at gmail Jul 2, 2009, 7:18 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages brion at wikimedia Jul 2, 2009, 10:18 AM         Re: On templates and programming languages questpc at rambler Jul 2, 2009, 11:47 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages brion at wikimedia Jul 2, 2009, 10:32 AM         Re: On templates and programming languages questpc at rambler Jul 2, 2009, 10:48 AM         Re: On templates and programming languages vasilvv at gmail Jul 2, 2009, 12:03 PM         Re: On templates and programming languages bryan.tongminh at gmail Jul 3, 2009, 3:00 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages Simetrical+wikilist at gmail Jul 2, 2009, 7:22 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages marco at harddisk Jul 2, 2009, 7:25 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages rarohde at gmail Jul 2, 2009, 7:30 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages stevagewp at gmail Jul 2, 2009, 7:34 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages Simetrical+wikilist at gmail Jul 2, 2009, 7:42 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages oscar.vives at gmail Jul 3, 2009, 2:49 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages jared.williams1 at ntlworld Jul 3, 2009, 3:41 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages agarrett at wikimedia Jul 3, 2009, 5:03 AM         Re: On templates and programming languages questpc at rambler Jul 3, 2009, 7:56 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages sergey.chernyshev at gmail Jul 3, 2009, 10:27 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages petr.kadlec at gmail Jul 3, 2009, 10:37 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages Simetrical+wikilist at gmail Jul 3, 2009, 12:15 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages Simetrical+wikilist at gmail Jul 3, 2009, 12:16 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages questpc at rambler Jul 3, 2009, 11:37 PM     Re: On templates and programming languages tstarling at wikimedia Jul 8, 2009, 4:44 AM         Re: On templates and programming languages oscar.vives at gmail Jul 8, 2009, 5:35 AM     Re: On templates and programming languages Platonides at gmail Jul 9, 2009, 12:36 AM

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