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magnusmanske at googlemail

Mar 9, 2009, 12:51 PM

Post #1 of 31 (7365 views)
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Wikipedia is full

Database error
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A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in
the software. The last attempted database query was:

(SQL query hidden)

from within function "ExternalStoreDB::store". MySQL returned error
"1114: The table 'blobs' is full (10.0.2.161)".

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tstarling at wikimedia

Mar 10, 2009, 6:54 AM

Post #2 of 31 (7259 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

Magnus Manske wrote:
> Database error
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Jump to: navigation, search
> A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in
> the software. The last attempted database query was:
>
> (SQL query hidden)
>
> from within function "ExternalStoreDB::store". MySQL returned error
> "1114: The table 'blobs' is full (10.0.2.161)".

Please report urgent system administration issues to IRC, specifically
#wikimedia-tech on irc.freenode.net.

-- Tim Starling


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p858snake at yahoo

Mar 10, 2009, 4:15 PM

Post #3 of 31 (7248 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

> Please report urgent system administration issues to IRC, specifically
> #wikimedia-tech on irc.freenode.net.
>
> -- Tim Starling
Not everyone knows how to use IRC, i would recommend that you
recommend people report to bugzilla with urgent tags instead.

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rarohde at gmail

Mar 10, 2009, 4:21 PM

Post #4 of 31 (7261 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

Out of curiousity, when a technical problem shuts down all editing on
a major wiki (as this did) are there any automated alerts? Is it
likely to be noticed and addressed even if no one rushes to IRC?

I guess I am curious what is the normal delay between problem onset
and problem recognition?

-Robert Rohde

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Platonides at gmail

Mar 10, 2009, 4:39 PM

Post #5 of 31 (7264 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

Robert Rohde wrote:
> Out of curiousity, when a technical problem shuts down all editing on
> a major wiki (as this did) are there any automated alerts? Is it
> likely to be noticed and addressed even if no one rushes to IRC?
>
> I guess I am curious what is the normal delay between problem onset
> and problem recognition?
>
> -Robert Rohde

The procedure is "a lot of people enter #wikimedia-tech complaining
about it".
There are automated alerts about servers going down or not having enough
free space on disk, but not for 'saving an edit failed'. That would be
tricky to do.


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p858snake at yahoo

Mar 10, 2009, 4:43 PM

Post #6 of 31 (7251 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Robert Rohde <rarohde [at] gmail> wrote:
> Out of curiousity, when a technical problem shuts down all editing on
> a major wiki (as this did) are there any automated alerts?  Is it
> likely to be noticed and addressed even if no one rushes to IRC?
>
> I guess I am curious what is the normal delay between problem onset
> and problem recognition?
>
> -Robert Rohde
I believe with this issue (Full MySQL table) that there is no easy way
to automate the test.....
maybe you could automatically query it every so often but even then
that might not return reliable results.

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thomas.dalton at gmail

Mar 10, 2009, 4:54 PM

Post #7 of 31 (7254 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

2009/3/10 K. Peachey <p858snake [at] yahoo>:
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Robert Rohde <rarohde [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Out of curiousity, when a technical problem shuts down all editing on
>> a major wiki (as this did) are there any automated alerts?  Is it
>> likely to be noticed and addressed even if no one rushes to IRC?
>>
>> I guess I am curious what is the normal delay between problem onset
>> and problem recognition?
>>
>> -Robert Rohde
> I believe with this issue (Full MySQL table) that there is no easy way
> to automate the test.....
> maybe you could automatically query it every so often but even then
> that might not return reliable results.

A bot that edits the sandbox every few minutes would work, would it?

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p858snake at yahoo

Mar 10, 2009, 4:59 PM

Post #8 of 31 (7256 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

> A bot that edits the sandbox every few minutes would work, would it?
Possibly, but i would bump it up to like every two hours. Plus since
the MySQL is spread between multipul systems you would have make sure
it checks the same one all the time.

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thomas.dalton at gmail

Mar 10, 2009, 5:02 PM

Post #9 of 31 (7254 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

2009/3/10 K. Peachey <p858snake [at] yahoo>:
>> A bot that edits the sandbox every few minutes would work, would it?
> Possibly, but i would bump it up to like every two hours. Plus since
> the MySQL is spread between multipul systems you would have make sure
> it checks the same one all the time.

If you're going to wait 2 hours, you might as well just wait for
people to start complaining, that will be far quicker.

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rarohde at gmail

Mar 10, 2009, 5:02 PM

Post #10 of 31 (7255 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 4:43 PM, K. Peachey <p858snake [at] yahoo> wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Robert Rohde <rarohde [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Out of curiousity, when a technical problem shuts down all editing on
>> a major wiki (as this did) are there any automated alerts?  Is it
>> likely to be noticed and addressed even if no one rushes to IRC?
>>
>> I guess I am curious what is the normal delay between problem onset
>> and problem recognition?
>>
>> -Robert Rohde
> I believe with this issue (Full MySQL table) that there is no easy way
> to automate the test.....
> maybe you could automatically query it every so often but even then
> that might not return reliable results.

One could query count(*) from revisions (or some similar artifice,
such as looking at the recent changes feed) and trigger an alert if it
stops increasing.

Such things are probably totally unnecessary on enwiki, because there
is no shortage of people to complain, but I could image it might be
useful to have such an alert for smaller, non-English speaking wikis.

-Robert Rohde

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Simetrical+wikilist at gmail

Mar 10, 2009, 5:31 PM

Post #11 of 31 (7238 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 7:15 PM, K. Peachey <p858snake [at] yahoo> wrote:
> Not everyone knows how to use IRC, i would recommend that you
> recommend people report to bugzilla with urgent tags instead.

Sysadmins do not check Bugzilla constantly. They do check IRC
constantly if you say their names in the right channel. Therefore,
IRC is the preferred method of reporting urgent problems, and will
remain so for the foreseeable future. If some people don't know how
to use it, they can either find someone who does; learn quickly; or be
content with their alert taking a while longer to reach the right
people.

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brion at wikimedia

Mar 10, 2009, 5:32 PM

Post #12 of 31 (7255 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

On 3/10/09 4:39 PM, Platonides wrote:
> The procedure is "a lot of people enter #wikimedia-tech complaining
> about it".
> There are automated alerts about servers going down or not having enough
> free space on disk, but not for 'saving an edit failed'. That would be
> tricky to do.

Wouldn't be that tricky, but it's not our highest priority as the human
alert system does an excellent job of this already. ;)

-- brion

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brion at wikimedia

Mar 10, 2009, 5:32 PM

Post #13 of 31 (7257 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

On 3/10/09 5:02 PM, Robert Rohde wrote:
> Such things are probably totally unnecessary on enwiki, because there
> is no shortage of people to complain, but I could image it might be
> useful to have such an alert for smaller, non-English speaking wikis.

*nod*

-- brion

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soxred93 at gmail

Mar 10, 2009, 7:11 PM

Post #14 of 31 (7247 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

In case you didn't see the whole StatusBot fiasco on enwiki, I used
to run a bot as a replacement to a replacement of [[User:StatusBot]].
The bot made 50k edis in a few months, and was soon shut down by
Brion. A bot the edits the sandbox every few minutes would no way be
approved.

On Mar 10, 2009, at 7:54 PM [Mar 10, 2009 ], Thomas Dalton wrote:

> 2009/3/10 K. Peachey <p858snake [at] yahoo>:
>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Robert Rohde <rarohde [at] gmail>
>> wrote:
>>> Out of curiousity, when a technical problem shuts down all
>>> editing on
>>> a major wiki (as this did) are there any automated alerts? Is it
>>> likely to be noticed and addressed even if no one rushes to IRC?
>>>
>>> I guess I am curious what is the normal delay between problem onset
>>> and problem recognition?
>>>
>>> -Robert Rohde
>> I believe with this issue (Full MySQL table) that there is no easy
>> way
>> to automate the test.....
>> maybe you could automatically query it every so often but even then
>> that might not return reliable results.
>
> A bot that edits the sandbox every few minutes would work, would it?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


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soxred93 at gmail

Mar 10, 2009, 7:12 PM

Post #15 of 31 (7265 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

What about replag? The bot would puke every time that replication stops.

On Mar 10, 2009, at 8:02 PM [Mar 10, 2009 ], Robert Rohde wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 4:43 PM, K. Peachey
> <p858snake [at] yahoo> wrote:
>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Robert Rohde <rarohde [at] gmail>
>> wrote:
>>> Out of curiousity, when a technical problem shuts down all
>>> editing on
>>> a major wiki (as this did) are there any automated alerts? Is it
>>> likely to be noticed and addressed even if no one rushes to IRC?
>>>
>>> I guess I am curious what is the normal delay between problem onset
>>> and problem recognition?
>>>
>>> -Robert Rohde
>> I believe with this issue (Full MySQL table) that there is no easy
>> way
>> to automate the test.....
>> maybe you could automatically query it every so often but even then
>> that might not return reliable results.
>
> One could query count(*) from revisions (or some similar artifice,
> such as looking at the recent changes feed) and trigger an alert if it
> stops increasing.
>
> Such things are probably totally unnecessary on enwiki, because there
> is no shortage of people to complain, but I could image it might be
> useful to have such an alert for smaller, non-English speaking wikis.
>
> -Robert Rohde
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


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neuro.wikipedia at googlemail

Mar 10, 2009, 9:48 PM

Post #16 of 31 (7245 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

Yes, but whilst StatusBot and the proposed bot would have comparable edit
statistics, the latter would have more of a reason for running than 'to
update people's statuses'. It's not just about actions, it's about the
justification for those actions.

- Chris

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Soxred93 <soxred93 [at] gmail> wrote:

> In case you didn't see the whole StatusBot fiasco on enwiki, I used
> to run a bot as a replacement to a replacement of [[User:StatusBot]].
> The bot made 50k edis in a few months, and was soon shut down by
> Brion. A bot the edits the sandbox every few minutes would no way be
> approved.
>
> On Mar 10, 2009, at 7:54 PM [Mar 10, 2009 ], Thomas Dalton wrote:
>
> > 2009/3/10 K. Peachey <p858snake [at] yahoo>:
> >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Robert Rohde <rarohde [at] gmail>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Out of curiousity, when a technical problem shuts down all
> >>> editing on
> >>> a major wiki (as this did) are there any automated alerts? Is it
> >>> likely to be noticed and addressed even if no one rushes to IRC?
> >>>
> >>> I guess I am curious what is the normal delay between problem onset
> >>> and problem recognition?
> >>>
> >>> -Robert Rohde
> >> I believe with this issue (Full MySQL table) that there is no easy
> >> way
> >> to automate the test.....
> >> maybe you could automatically query it every so often but even then
> >> that might not return reliable results.
> >
> > A bot that edits the sandbox every few minutes would work, would it?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l [at] lists
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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midom.lists at gmail

Mar 11, 2009, 2:20 AM

Post #17 of 31 (7238 views)
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Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

Hello,

just for clarity, "table is full" was the edge case which consisted of
very narrow index, slightly too low MAX_ROWS specification and lots of
rows.
In 4.1 and earlier versions MySQL was using 4-byte data pointers by
default, and to bypass that one has to specify maximum rows and
average row size.
The specifications we had were good for data area, but bad for index
area, which was a function of max_rows and index width.

As index was very very narrow, a 2-byte internal index area pointer
was picked, which allowed just 64k 1024-byte blocks (thats right,
total 64M for indexing per table), which restricted us to ~8 million
rows per table. Of course, that was way above the one million we
specified :)

This is quite unpopular situation (I've never seen anyone hit that
before, except on our sites :) - and if we had any other additional
index on that table or had wider field or more fields in it, the index
pointer would be 4 or 6 bytes, thus allowing bazillion rows.

Now, the bad part was that we saw this before, and we knew what causes
this, and still didn't change definition (or simply remove it, we run
5.0 for ES, and it doesn't need this specification, this is legacy
thing).

Still, no need to believe that we ran out of diskspace.

BR,
--
Domas Mituzas -- http://dammit.lt/ -- [[user:midom]]



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tstarling at wikimedia

Mar 11, 2009, 2:59 PM

Post #18 of 31 (7199 views)
Permalink
Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

K. Peachey wrote:
>> Please report urgent system administration issues to IRC, specifically
>> #wikimedia-tech on irc.freenode.net.
>>
>> -- Tim Starling
> Not everyone knows how to use IRC, i would recommend that you
> recommend people report to bugzilla with urgent tags instead.

That would just be a nuisance. By the time we check Bugzilla for new
issues, urgent problems are already fixed due to IRC reports or
automated alerts. We would have to waste time finding and closing all
the relevant bugs. I would suggest either using IRC or waiting patiently.

-- Tim Starling


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innocentkiller at gmail

Mar 11, 2009, 3:04 PM

Post #19 of 31 (7199 views)
Permalink
Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 5:59 PM, Tim Starling <tstarling [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> K. Peachey wrote:
>>> Please report urgent system administration issues to IRC, specifically
>>> #wikimedia-tech on irc.freenode.net.
>>>
>>> -- Tim Starling
>> Not everyone knows how to use IRC, i would recommend that you
>> recommend people report to bugzilla with urgent tags instead.
>
> That would just be a nuisance. By the time we check Bugzilla for new
> issues, urgent problems are already fixed due to IRC reports or
> automated alerts. We would have to waste time finding and closing all
> the relevant bugs. I would suggest either using IRC or waiting patiently.
>
> -- Tim Starling
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

Not to mention, depending on the error it could be entirely possible
that Bugzilla is down as well.

-Chad

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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Mar 11, 2009, 3:16 PM

Post #20 of 31 (7197 views)
Permalink
Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

Hoi,
If this is true, you just provided the best argument why the setup of
Bugzilla should be changed. You do not want to have the tools that report on
the availability of your production servers to be dependent on those same
production servers.
Thanks,
GerardM

2009/3/11 Chad <innocentkiller [at] gmail>

> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 5:59 PM, Tim Starling <tstarling [at] wikimedia>
> wrote:
> > K. Peachey wrote:
> >>> Please report urgent system administration issues to IRC, specifically
> >>> #wikimedia-tech on irc.freenode.net.
> >>>
> >>> -- Tim Starling
> >> Not everyone knows how to use IRC, i would recommend that you
> >> recommend people report to bugzilla with urgent tags instead.
> >
> > That would just be a nuisance. By the time we check Bugzilla for new
> > issues, urgent problems are already fixed due to IRC reports or
> > automated alerts. We would have to waste time finding and closing all
> > the relevant bugs. I would suggest either using IRC or waiting patiently.
> >
> > -- Tim Starling
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l [at] lists
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
>
> Not to mention, depending on the error it could be entirely possible
> that Bugzilla is down as well.
>
> -Chad
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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innocentkiller at gmail

Mar 11, 2009, 3:30 PM

Post #21 of 31 (7204 views)
Permalink
Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen [at] gmail> wrote:
> Hoi,
> If this is true, you just provided the best argument why the setup of
> Bugzilla should be changed. You do not want to have the tools that report on
> the availability of your production servers to be dependent on those same
> production servers.
> Thanks,
>       GerardM
>
> 2009/3/11 Chad <innocentkiller [at] gmail>
>
>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 5:59 PM, Tim Starling <tstarling [at] wikimedia>
>> wrote:
>> > K. Peachey wrote:
>> >>> Please report urgent system administration issues to IRC, specifically
>> >>> #wikimedia-tech on irc.freenode.net.
>> >>>
>> >>> -- Tim Starling
>> >> Not everyone knows how to use IRC, i would recommend that you
>> >> recommend people report to bugzilla with urgent tags instead.
>> >
>> > That would just be a nuisance. By the time we check Bugzilla for new
>> > issues, urgent problems are already fixed due to IRC reports or
>> > automated alerts. We would have to waste time finding and closing all
>> > the relevant bugs. I would suggest either using IRC or waiting patiently.
>> >
>> > -- Tim Starling
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikitech-l mailing list
>> > Wikitech-l [at] lists
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>> >
>>
>> Not to mention, depending on the error it could be entirely possible
>> that Bugzilla is down as well.
>>
>> -Chad
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l [at] lists
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

Which is one of several reasons we _don't_ handle urgent sysadmin
stuff via Bugzilla. What's your point?

-Chad

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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Mar 11, 2009, 3:38 PM

Post #22 of 31 (7203 views)
Permalink
Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

Hoi,
People _do_ post problems using Bugzilla.. What you are saying is that the
_intention_ is not to use it for urgent sysadmin stuff. New bugzilla bugs
_are_ posted on IRC in order to get people's attention. This real time
attention negates your assertion that it is not treated as urgent.
<grin> my point is that it is a de facto important tool for sysadmin work
even when this is not intentional </grin>
Thanks,
GerardM

2009/3/11 Chad <innocentkiller [at] gmail>

> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Gerard Meijssen
> <gerard.meijssen [at] gmail> wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > If this is true, you just provided the best argument why the setup of
> > Bugzilla should be changed. You do not want to have the tools that report
> on
> > the availability of your production servers to be dependent on those same
> > production servers.
> > Thanks,
> > GerardM
> >
> > 2009/3/11 Chad <innocentkiller [at] gmail>
> >
> >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 5:59 PM, Tim Starling <tstarling [at] wikimedia>
> >> wrote:
> >> > K. Peachey wrote:
> >> >>> Please report urgent system administration issues to IRC,
> specifically
> >> >>> #wikimedia-tech on irc.freenode.net.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -- Tim Starling
> >> >> Not everyone knows how to use IRC, i would recommend that you
> >> >> recommend people report to bugzilla with urgent tags instead.
> >> >
> >> > That would just be a nuisance. By the time we check Bugzilla for new
> >> > issues, urgent problems are already fixed due to IRC reports or
> >> > automated alerts. We would have to waste time finding and closing all
> >> > the relevant bugs. I would suggest either using IRC or waiting
> patiently.
> >> >
> >> > -- Tim Starling
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> >> > Wikitech-l [at] lists
> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >> >
> >>
> >> Not to mention, depending on the error it could be entirely possible
> >> that Bugzilla is down as well.
> >>
> >> -Chad
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikitech-l mailing list
> >> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l [at] lists
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
>
> Which is one of several reasons we _don't_ handle urgent sysadmin
> stuff via Bugzilla. What's your point?
>
> -Chad
>
> _______________________________________________
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tstarling at wikimedia

Mar 11, 2009, 3:41 PM

Post #23 of 31 (7202 views)
Permalink
Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> 2009/3/11 Chad <innocentkiller [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Not to mention, depending on the error it could be entirely possible
>> that Bugzilla is down as well.
>
> If this is true, you just provided the best argument why the setup of
> Bugzilla should be changed. You do not want to have the tools that report on
> the availability of your production servers to be dependent on those same
> production servers.

Bugzilla is not such a tool, as I already said. There is no need for
it to be up when the site generally is down.

-- Tim Starling


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audevivere at gmail

Mar 11, 2009, 3:43 PM

Post #24 of 31 (7211 views)
Permalink
Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Tim Starling <tstarling [at] wikimedia>wrote:

>
>
> Please report urgent system administration issues to IRC, specifically
> #wikimedia-tech on irc.freenode.net.
>
> -- Tim Starling
>


Certainly IRC is the best way to inform developers and sys admins of a
problem with Wikipedia.

As a user, I also like to know what's going on when there is a problem.
But, I'm not regularly on IRC. If I'm at work where I sometimes look up
things on Wikipedia (but don't edit), and see that Wikipedia is down, then I
am curious what the problem is. However, IRC and other types of chat are
forbidden at work. :( But, I am allowed to access gmail.

So, I very much appreciate it when people send messages to the mailing list
about such problems.

-Aude


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--
Aude
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innocentkiller at gmail

Mar 11, 2009, 3:47 PM

Post #25 of 31 (7206 views)
Permalink
Re: Wikipedia is full [In reply to]

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 6:38 PM, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen [at] gmail> wrote:
> Hoi,
> People _do_ post problems using Bugzilla.. What you are saying is that the
> _intention_ is not to use it for urgent sysadmin stuff. New bugzilla bugs
> _are_ posted on IRC in order to get people's attention. This real time
> attention negates your assertion that it is not treated as urgent.
> <grin> my point is that it is a de facto important tool for sysadmin work
> even when this is not intentional </grin>
> Thanks,
>     GerardM

Just because someone posts a bug doesn't mean that we are
relying on that as a mechanism of notification. By and large, the
urgent-opened bugs are quickly closed because the sysadmins
are already working on the problem.

You're confusing people filing bugs with us relying on those bugs.
They aren't the same thing.

-Chad

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