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ordered lists starting at a certain number

 

 

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jidanni at jidanni

Jan 31, 2009, 1:23 PM

Post #1 of 11 (3578 views)
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ordered lists starting at a certain number

Gentlemen, In wikitext I want to do <ol start="6101">
<li>a
<li>b
</ol>
but http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html says that is
deprecated. In fact I really want to just use "#" and have that
start at 6101. OK, I'll just hard wire them into the page 6101. a
6102. b

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innocentkiller at gmail

Jan 31, 2009, 3:17 PM

Post #2 of 11 (3536 views)
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Re: ordered lists starting at a certain number [In reply to]

Try using counters in CSS.

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/generate.html#counters

-Chad

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:23 PM, <jidanni [at] jidanni> wrote:

> Gentlemen, In wikitext I want to do <ol start="6101">
> <li>a
> <li>b
> </ol>
> but http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html says that is
> deprecated. In fact I really want to just use "#" and have that
> start at 6101. OK, I'll just hard wire them into the page 6101. a
> 6102. b
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Simetrical+wikilist at gmail

Jan 31, 2009, 5:04 PM

Post #3 of 11 (3537 views)
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Re: ordered lists starting at a certain number [In reply to]

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:23 PM, <jidanni [at] jidanni> wrote:
> Gentlemen, In wikitext I want to do <ol start="6101">
> <li>a
> <li>b
> </ol>
> but http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html says that is
> deprecated.

It's been un-deprecated in HTML5, for what that's worth. I don't know
whether XHTML2 has done so as well.

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Platonides at gmail

Jan 31, 2009, 5:12 PM

Post #4 of 11 (3539 views)
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Re: ordered lists starting at a certain number [In reply to]

Aryeh Gregor wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:23 PM, <jidanni [at] jidanni> wrote:
>> Gentlemen, In wikitext I want to do <ol start="6101">
>> <li>a
>> <li>b
>> </ol>
>> but http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html says that is
>> deprecated.
>
> It's been un-deprecated in HTML5, for what that's worth. I don't know
> whether XHTML2 has done so as well.

IMHO it should be allowed to do
<ol start="6101">
# a
# b
</ol>

instead of having to revert to html to do this -otherwise not too
uncommon- action.


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dan_the_man at telus

Jan 31, 2009, 7:12 PM

Post #5 of 11 (3530 views)
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Re: ordered lists starting at a certain number [In reply to]

Someone needs to read a good WP article before they start mentioning
(X)HTML version numbers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XHTML

HTML5 and XHTML5, called HTML5 as a general but like HTML4 and XHTML1.x
they are basically the same API with different tag parsing flavors. You
don't need to drop from XHTML into HTML to get v5 support.
As for XHTML2. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because XHTML was
v1 they're going to use sane numbers and move up to HTML5 and XHTML2
because the previous names were HTML4 and XHTML1. Nope, instead they've
made numbers parallel and the successors to HTML4 and XHTML1 are HTML5
and XHTML5.

XHTML2 is a completely different specification which is not backwards
compatible with old XHTML1 documents. Though it does look interesting,
going from a XHTML <a href="http://example.com"><img src="img.png"
alt="alt text" /></a> ^_^ and instead using <img src="img.png"
href="http://example.com">Alt text <em>With Emphasis!</em></img>, heh.

~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://nadir-seen-fire.com]
-Nadir-Point (http://nadir-point.com)
-Wiki-Tools (http://wiki-tools.com)
-MonkeyScript (http://monkeyscript.nadir-point.com)
-Animepedia (http://anime.wikia.com)
-Narutopedia (http://naruto.wikia.com)
-Soul Eater Wiki (http://souleater.wikia.com)



Platonides wrote:
> Aryeh Gregor wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:23 PM, <jidanni [at] jidanni> wrote:
>>
>>> Gentlemen, In wikitext I want to do <ol start="6101">
>>> <li>a
>>> <li>b
>>> </ol>
>>> but http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html says that is
>>> deprecated.
>>>
>> It's been un-deprecated in HTML5, for what that's worth. I don't know
>> whether XHTML2 has done so as well.
>>
>
> IMHO it should be allowed to do
> <ol start="6101">
> # a
> # b
> </ol>
>
> instead of having to revert to html to do this -otherwise not too
> uncommon- action.
>


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Simetrical+wikilist at gmail

Jan 31, 2009, 7:25 PM

Post #6 of 11 (3530 views)
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Re: ordered lists starting at a certain number [In reply to]

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Daniel Friesen <dan_the_man [at] telus> wrote:
> Someone needs to read a good WP article before they start mentioning
> (X)HTML version numbers:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XHTML

Both HTML5 and XHTML2 are successors to HTML4. That's all that's
really relevant here. HTML5 has un-deprecated the "start" attribute
of <ol>, so nobody should be worrying about HTML4's deprecation of it.
(XHTML2 does appear to have removed the attribute, so I guess you
could worry about it if you plan to move to XHTML2 in the future. But
probably nobody is going to use XHTML2, and MediaWiki almost certainly
isn't.)

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dan_the_man at telus

Jan 31, 2009, 10:16 PM

Post #7 of 11 (3526 views)
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Re: ordered lists starting at a certain number [In reply to]

(X)HTML5 is the accepted successor to (X)HTML [HTML4/XHTML1.x]
XHTML2 is a branch standard of XHTML (there is no HTML equiv to it) with
different goals, purposes, and isn't even widely implemented enough to
be considered something viable for use. It's unlikely many browser
vendors are even going to implement support for it. But it is afact that
something called XHTML2 exists and it has nothing to do with HTML5.
I'm just piping up against the misnomer of using the name "XHTML2" when
you are actually referring to "XHTML5".


Though on the note... as I believe when it comes to it the doctype and
what kind of stuff you use/the browser uses have little to do with each
other.
Using an old (X)HTML doctype, I believe browsers that support it will
still make use of the <canvas /> element even though you're /supposed/
to use a (X)HTML5 doctype.
The DOCTYPE merely controls validation, and what browsers you want in
quirksmode, almost-standards, or standards mode. It might control
parsing a little, but to be honest the content-type is really the only
thing that at least Firefox considers for that. Even using a XHTML
doctype Firefox still parses your document using loose HTML rules. It
doesn't parse it with an XML parser unless you use application/xhtml+xml.

To be honest I've been on the personal debate lately on whether XHTML is
really viable. Or if it's better to just have my applications start
spitting out clean HTML with a HTML doctype rather than using XHTML.
Most browsers don't bother with the XML factor of XHTML, the fancy parts
of XHTML (like inline svg or more importantly, your own custom
namespaces) aren't widely supported enough, CSS can't style namespaced
nodes (Except in IE, which is strange because IE is the single browser
that makes the whole XHTML as XML factor lag), using an actual XML
generator to output your XHTML pages can cause invalid pages to be
outputted (script tags may likely be outputted as <script src="..."/>
which breaks in all browsers except FF2 (FF3 purposefully makes that
break for it now), and an empty span as <span/> which can cause issues
when the browser doesn't parse the document using pure XML), and it's
actually fairly trivial to take a generated XML document and modify it
to be HTML.

~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://nadir-seen-fire.com]
-Nadir-Point (http://nadir-point.com)
-Wiki-Tools (http://wiki-tools.com)
-MonkeyScript (http://monkeyscript.nadir-point.com)
-Animepedia (http://anime.wikia.com)
-Narutopedia (http://naruto.wikia.com)
-Soul Eater Wiki (http://souleater.wikia.com)



Aryeh Gregor wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Daniel Friesen <dan_the_man [at] telus> wrote:
>
>> Someone needs to read a good WP article before they start mentioning
>> (X)HTML version numbers:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XHTML
>>
>
> Both HTML5 and XHTML2 are successors to HTML4. That's all that's
> really relevant here. HTML5 has un-deprecated the "start" attribute
> of <ol>, so nobody should be worrying about HTML4's deprecation of it.
> (XHTML2 does appear to have removed the attribute, so I guess you
> could worry about it if you plan to move to XHTML2 in the future. But
> probably nobody is going to use XHTML2, and MediaWiki almost certainly
> isn't.)
>


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Simetrical+wikilist at gmail

Feb 1, 2009, 7:14 AM

Post #8 of 11 (3519 views)
Permalink
Re: ordered lists starting at a certain number [In reply to]

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 4:23 PM, <jidanni [at] jidanni> wrote:
> Gentlemen, In wikitext I want to do <ol start="6101">
> <li>a
> <li>b
> </ol>
> but http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html says that is
> deprecated. In fact I really want to just use "#" and have that
> start at 6101. OK, I'll just hard wire them into the page 6101. a
> 6102. b

Just to get this back on-topic: basically, the <ol start=6101> method
is the correct one, and you should use that. Ignore HTML4's
deprecation of the attribute.

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jidanni at jidanni

Feb 1, 2009, 12:31 PM

Post #9 of 11 (3525 views)
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Re: ordered lists starting at a certain number [In reply to]

>>>>> "AG" == Aryeh Gregor <Simetrical+wikilist [at] gmail> writes:
AG> Just to get this back on-topic: basically, the <ol start=6101> method
AG> is the correct one, and you should use that. Ignore HTML4's
AG> deprecation of the attribute.
OK, it's a deal. But is there any way to combine that with the
convenience of "#"?:
#How can I jump start this line to 6100 without resorting to <li>?

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Simetrical+wikilist at gmail

Feb 1, 2009, 12:47 PM

Post #10 of 11 (3519 views)
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Re: ordered lists starting at a certain number [In reply to]

On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 3:31 PM, <jidanni [at] jidanni> wrote:
> OK, it's a deal. But is there any way to combine that with the
> convenience of "#"?:
> #How can I jump start this line to 6100 without resorting to <li>?

You currently can't. This is one of the many features for which you
have to use HTML-style lists.

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jidanni at jidanni

Feb 1, 2009, 3:20 PM

Post #11 of 11 (3526 views)
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Re: ordered lists starting at a certain number [In reply to]

>>>>> "C" == Chad <innocentkiller [at] gmail> writes:

C> Try using counters in CSS.
C> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/generate.html#counters

Thanks but I seek a browser (User-Agent: Emacs-w3m/1.4.263 w3m/0.5.2)
independent solution.

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