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Re: [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [39748] trunk/phase3 (stupid i18n)

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s.mazeland at xs4all

Aug 21, 2008, 1:48 AM

Post #1 of 9 (609 views)
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Re: [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [39748] trunk/phase3 (stupid i18n)

What the heck is this? Large scale lego in Capital City? Please be reminded
that this is most probably impossible to localise in 80% of MediaWiki's
languages. I suggest this is reverted until a proper solution is found.

Siebrand

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: mediawiki-cvs-bounces[at]lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:mediawiki-cvs-bounces[at]lists.wikimedia.org] Namens
demon[at]mayflower.knams.wikimedia.org
Verzonden: donderdag 21 augustus 2008 2:22
Aan: mediawiki-cvs[at]lists.wikimedia.org
Onderwerp: [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [39748] trunk/phase3

Revision: 39748
Author: demon
Date: 2008-08-21 00:22:02 +0000 (Thu, 21 Aug 2008)

Log Message:
-----------
* Move messages from a hardcoded $bundle to core message files.
* getString() is now a wrapper for htmlspecialchars( wfMsgNoTrans() ) as
these messages are plaintext (per guyvdb)
* Could probably use more cleanup, but this is a nice start in the right
direction.

Modified Paths:
--------------
trunk/phase3/includes/HTMLDiff.php
trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php

Modified: trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php
===================================================================
--- trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php 2008-08-20 23:46:56
UTC (rev 39747)
+++ trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php 2008-08-21 00:22:02
UTC (rev 39748)
@@ -1329,6 +1329,91 @@
'compareselectedversions' => 'Compare selected versions',
'editundo' => 'undo',
'diff-multi' => '({{PLURAL:$1|One intermediate revision|$1
intermediate revisions}} not shown.)',
+'diff-movedto' => 'Moved to',
+'diff-styleadded' => 'Style added',
+'diff-added' => 'Added',
+'diff-changedto' => 'Changed to',
+'diff-movedoutof' => 'Moved out of',
+'diff-styleremoved' => 'Style removed',
+'diff-removed' => 'Removed',
+'diff-changedfrom' => 'Changed from',
+'diff-src' => 'Source',
+'diff-withdestination' => 'With destination',
+'diff-and' => 'And',
+'diff-with' => 'With',
+'diff-width' => 'Width',
+'diff-height' => 'Height',
+'diff-html-article' => 'A',
+'diff-html' => 'Html page',
+'diff-body-article' => 'A',
+'diff-body' => 'Html document',
+'diff-p-article' => 'A',
+'diff-p' => 'Paragraph',
+'diff-blockquote-article' => 'A',
+'diff-blockquote' => 'Quote',
+'diff-h1-article' => 'A',
+'diff-h1' => 'Heading (level 1)',
+'diff-h2-article' => 'A',
+'diff-h2' => 'Heading (level 2)',
+'diff-h3-article' => 'A',
+'diff-h3' => 'Heading (level 3)',
+'diff-h4-article' => 'A',
+'diff-h4' => 'Heading (level 4)',
+'diff-h5-article' => 'A',
+'diff-h5' => 'Heading (level 5)',
+'diff-pre-article' => 'A',
+'diff-pre' => 'Preformatted block',
+'diff-div-article' => 'A',
+'diff-div' => 'Division',
+'diff-ul-article' => 'An',
+'diff-ul' => 'Unordered list',
+'diff-ol-article' => 'An',
+'diff-ol' => 'Ordered list',
+'diff-li-article' => 'A',
+'diff-li' => 'List item',
+'diff-table-article' => 'A',
+'diff-table' => 'Table',
+'diff-tbody-article' => 'A',
+'diff-tbody' => "Table's content",
+'diff-tr-article' => 'A',
+'diff-tr' => 'Row',
+'diff-td-article' => 'A',
+'diff-td' => 'Cell',
+'diff-th-article' => 'A',
+'diff-th' => 'Header',
+'diff-br-article' => 'A',
+'diff-br' => 'Break',
+'diff-hr-article' => 'A',
+'diff-hr' => 'Horizontal rule',
+'diff-code-article' => 'A',
+'diff-code' => 'Computer code block',
+'diff-dl-article' => 'A',
+'diff-dl' => 'Definition list',
+'diff-dt-article' => 'A',
+'diff-dt' => 'Definition term',
+'diff-dd-article' => 'A',
+'diff-dd' => 'Definition',
+'diff-input-article' => 'An',
+'diff-input' => 'Input',
+'diff-form-article' => 'A',
+'diff-form' => 'Form',
+'diff-img-article' => 'An',
+'diff-img' => 'Image',
+'diff-span-article' => 'A',
+'diff-span' => 'Span',
+'diff-a-article' => 'A',
+'diff-a' => 'Link',
+'diff-i' => 'Italics',
+'diff-b' => 'Bold',
+'diff-strong' => 'Strong',
+'diff-em' => 'Emphasis',
+'diff-font' => 'Font',
+'diff-big' => 'Big',
+'diff-del' => 'Deleted',
+'diff-tt' => 'Fixed width',
+'diff-sub' => 'Subscript',
+'diff-sup' => 'Superscript',
+'diff-strike' => 'Strikethrough',

# Search results
'searchresults' => 'Search results',

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guyvdb at gmail

Aug 21, 2008, 3:01 AM

Post #2 of 9 (582 views)
Permalink

Re: [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [39748] trunk/phase3 (stupid i18n) [In reply to]

2008/8/21 Siebrand Mazeland <s.mazeland[at]xs4all.nl>:
> What the heck is this? Large scale lego in Capital City? Please be reminded
> that this is most probably impossible to localise in 80% of MediaWiki's
> languages. I suggest this is reverted until a proper solution is found.

Show some respect man. This comes from another i18n framework and we
know it has to be converted. If it is an immediate problem to
translators then fine, revert it. But don't be condescending because
it makes you look, what's the word, stupid.

> Siebrand
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: mediawiki-cvs-bounces[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> [mailto:mediawiki-cvs-bounces[at]lists.wikimedia.org] Namens
> demon[at]mayflower.knams.wikimedia.org
> Verzonden: donderdag 21 augustus 2008 2:22
> Aan: mediawiki-cvs[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> Onderwerp: [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [39748] trunk/phase3
>
> Revision: 39748
> Author: demon
> Date: 2008-08-21 00:22:02 +0000 (Thu, 21 Aug 2008)
>
> Log Message:
> -----------
> * Move messages from a hardcoded $bundle to core message files.
> * getString() is now a wrapper for htmlspecialchars( wfMsgNoTrans() ) as
> these messages are plaintext (per guyvdb)
> * Could probably use more cleanup, but this is a nice start in the right
> direction.
>
> Modified Paths:
> --------------
> trunk/phase3/includes/HTMLDiff.php
> trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php
>
> Modified: trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php
> ===================================================================
> --- trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php 2008-08-20 23:46:56
> UTC (rev 39747)
> +++ trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesEn.php 2008-08-21 00:22:02
> UTC (rev 39748)
> @@ -1329,6 +1329,91 @@
> 'compareselectedversions' => 'Compare selected versions',
> 'editundo' => 'undo',
> 'diff-multi' => '({{PLURAL:$1|One intermediate revision|$1
> intermediate revisions}} not shown.)',
> +'diff-movedto' => 'Moved to',
> +'diff-styleadded' => 'Style added',
> +'diff-added' => 'Added',
> +'diff-changedto' => 'Changed to',
> +'diff-movedoutof' => 'Moved out of',
> +'diff-styleremoved' => 'Style removed',
> +'diff-removed' => 'Removed',
> +'diff-changedfrom' => 'Changed from',
> +'diff-src' => 'Source',
> +'diff-withdestination' => 'With destination',
> +'diff-and' => 'And',
> +'diff-with' => 'With',
> +'diff-width' => 'Width',
> +'diff-height' => 'Height',
> +'diff-html-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-html' => 'Html page',
> +'diff-body-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-body' => 'Html document',
> +'diff-p-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-p' => 'Paragraph',
> +'diff-blockquote-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-blockquote' => 'Quote',
> +'diff-h1-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-h1' => 'Heading (level 1)',
> +'diff-h2-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-h2' => 'Heading (level 2)',
> +'diff-h3-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-h3' => 'Heading (level 3)',
> +'diff-h4-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-h4' => 'Heading (level 4)',
> +'diff-h5-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-h5' => 'Heading (level 5)',
> +'diff-pre-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-pre' => 'Preformatted block',
> +'diff-div-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-div' => 'Division',
> +'diff-ul-article' => 'An',
> +'diff-ul' => 'Unordered list',
> +'diff-ol-article' => 'An',
> +'diff-ol' => 'Ordered list',
> +'diff-li-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-li' => 'List item',
> +'diff-table-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-table' => 'Table',
> +'diff-tbody-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-tbody' => "Table's content",
> +'diff-tr-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-tr' => 'Row',
> +'diff-td-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-td' => 'Cell',
> +'diff-th-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-th' => 'Header',
> +'diff-br-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-br' => 'Break',
> +'diff-hr-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-hr' => 'Horizontal rule',
> +'diff-code-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-code' => 'Computer code block',
> +'diff-dl-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-dl' => 'Definition list',
> +'diff-dt-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-dt' => 'Definition term',
> +'diff-dd-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-dd' => 'Definition',
> +'diff-input-article' => 'An',
> +'diff-input' => 'Input',
> +'diff-form-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-form' => 'Form',
> +'diff-img-article' => 'An',
> +'diff-img' => 'Image',
> +'diff-span-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-span' => 'Span',
> +'diff-a-article' => 'A',
> +'diff-a' => 'Link',
> +'diff-i' => 'Italics',
> +'diff-b' => 'Bold',
> +'diff-strong' => 'Strong',
> +'diff-em' => 'Emphasis',
> +'diff-font' => 'Font',
> +'diff-big' => 'Big',
> +'diff-del' => 'Deleted',
> +'diff-tt' => 'Fixed width',
> +'diff-sub' => 'Subscript',
> +'diff-sup' => 'Superscript',
> +'diff-strike' => 'Strikethrough',
>
> # Search results
> 'searchresults' => 'Search results',
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-CVS mailing list
> MediaWiki-CVS[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-cvs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Wikitech-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

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innocentkiller at gmail

Aug 21, 2008, 5:20 AM

Post #3 of 9 (583 views)
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Re: [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [39748] trunk/phase3 (stupid i18n) [In reply to]

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 6:01 AM, Guy Van den Broeck <guyvdb[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> 2008/8/21 Siebrand Mazeland <s.mazeland[at]xs4all.nl>:
>> What the heck is this? Large scale lego in Capital City? Please be reminded
>> that this is most probably impossible to localise in 80% of MediaWiki's
>> languages. I suggest this is reverted until a proper solution is found.
>

Much cleanup needed, yes. My major goal with this first commit was
to remove the hardcoded strings from the class, so localization could
at least _begin_ where possible. A good number of these strings will
probably be going away (will be combining them with some params).

-Chad

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Simetrical+wikilist at gmail

Aug 21, 2008, 10:30 AM

Post #4 of 9 (582 views)
Permalink

Re: [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [39748] trunk/phase3 (stupid i18n) [In reply to]

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 6:01 AM, Guy Van den Broeck <guyvdb[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> Show some respect man. This comes from another i18n framework and we
> know it has to be converted. If it is an immediate problem to
> translators then fine, revert it. But don't be condescending because
> it makes you look, what's the word, stupid.

As soon as any message is added to MessagesEn.php, it automatically
shows up in the laps of dozens of translators. That's how we get 40
languages (and counting) with 99%+ translation of all messages in
core, and 289 languages in the software overall:

http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:Group_statistics

Committing something provisionally that doesn't make any sense for
translation is a bad idea because 1) it confuses the translators to
begin with, and 2) when they finally have figured out how to translate
it, you're probably going to change the messages and make them
re-translate it. This is not fair to our large and dedicated staff of
volunteer translators. We shouldn't be adding strings to
MessagesEn.php if we expect them to disappear or be radically changed
soon.

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guyvdb at gmail

Aug 21, 2008, 11:50 AM

Post #5 of 9 (581 views)
Permalink

Re: [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [39748] trunk/phase3 (stupid i18n) [In reply to]

I understand. Maybe this process should be better documented.
At any rate, it can be communicated without insulting other people's
work in good faith.

I tried simplifying the strings in r39776. This is as simple as I can
make it. The problem is that a string is constructed with as many
parts as there are changed tags, and each part is subdivided in as
many parts as there are arguments. This is all glued together with
keywords. I can't do any better than this.

Cheers,

Guy

2008/8/21 Aryeh Gregor <Simetrical+wikilist[at]gmail.com>:
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 6:01 AM, Guy Van den Broeck <guyvdb[at]gmail.com> wrote:
>> Show some respect man. This comes from another i18n framework and we
>> know it has to be converted. If it is an immediate problem to
>> translators then fine, revert it. But don't be condescending because
>> it makes you look, what's the word, stupid.
>
> As soon as any message is added to MessagesEn.php, it automatically
> shows up in the laps of dozens of translators. That's how we get 40
> languages (and counting) with 99%+ translation of all messages in
> core, and 289 languages in the software overall:
>
> http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:Group_statistics
>
> Committing something provisionally that doesn't make any sense for
> translation is a bad idea because 1) it confuses the translators to
> begin with, and 2) when they finally have figured out how to translate
> it, you're probably going to change the messages and make them
> re-translate it. This is not fair to our large and dedicated staff of
> volunteer translators. We shouldn't be adding strings to
> MessagesEn.php if we expect them to disappear or be radically changed
> soon.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

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roan.kattouw at home

Aug 21, 2008, 12:13 PM

Post #6 of 9 (581 views)
Permalink

Re: [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [39748] trunk/phase3 (stupid i18n) [In reply to]

Guy Van den Broeck schreef:
> I understand. Maybe this process should be better documented.
> At any rate, it can be communicated without insulting other people's
> work in good faith.
>
> I tried simplifying the strings in r39776. This is as simple as I can
> make it. The problem is that a string is constructed with as many
> parts as there are changed tags, and each part is subdivided in as
> many parts as there are arguments. This is all glued together with
> keywords. I can't do any better than this.
I haven't looked at your last commit, so I don't know whether you're
aware of the feature I'm gonna tell you about or whether you used it in
your last commit, but calling wfMsg('messagekey', 'foo', 'bar') will
replace all occurrences of $1 in the message with 'foo' and $2 with
'bar'. Messages are also 'pluralized' by using {{PLURAL:}}: "You have $1
new {{PLURAL:$1|message|messages}}".

Roan Kattouw (Catrope)

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guyvdb at gmail

Aug 21, 2008, 12:45 PM

Post #7 of 9 (576 views)
Permalink

Re: [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [39748] trunk/phase3 (stupid i18n) [In reply to]

2008/8/21 Roan Kattouw <roan.kattouw[at]home.nl>:
> Guy Van den Broeck schreef:
>> I understand. Maybe this process should be better documented.
>> At any rate, it can be communicated without insulting other people's
>> work in good faith.
>>
>> I tried simplifying the strings in r39776. This is as simple as I can
>> make it. The problem is that a string is constructed with as many
>> parts as there are changed tags, and each part is subdivided in as
>> many parts as there are arguments. This is all glued together with
>> keywords. I can't do any better than this.
> I haven't looked at your last commit, so I don't know whether you're
> aware of the feature I'm gonna tell you about or whether you used it in
> your last commit, but calling wfMsg('messagekey', 'foo', 'bar') will
> replace all occurrences of $1 in the message with 'foo' and $2 with
> 'bar'. Messages are also 'pluralized' by using {{PLURAL:}}: "You have $1
> new {{PLURAL:$1|message|messages}}".

Yes I'm aware of that :-). I can't use it, I'd need to be able to fill
in an array of strings in some kind of repeated substring. I don't
think that feature is available right?

>
> Roan Kattouw (Catrope)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

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roan.kattouw at home

Aug 21, 2008, 12:48 PM

Post #8 of 9 (585 views)
Permalink

Re: [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [39748] trunk/phase3 (stupid i18n) [In reply to]

Guy Van den Broeck schreef:
>
> Yes I'm aware of that :-). I can't use it, I'd need to be able to fill
> in an array of strings in some kind of repeated substring. I don't
> think that feature is available right?
>
>
You're right, that's not available, so you'll necessarily have some Lego
stuff going on there. The separate messages for articles were kind of
out there though; I see you fixed that and put wiki markup in the
messages, which is good. I haven't looked at an actual HTML diff yet, so
I don't know if it's good enough, but it's definitely a step in the
right direction.

Roan Kattouw (Catrope)

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innocentkiller at gmail

Aug 21, 2008, 12:49 PM

Post #9 of 9 (578 views)
Permalink

Re: [MediaWiki-CVS] SVN: [39748] trunk/phase3 (stupid i18n) [In reply to]

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Guy Van den Broeck <guyvdb[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> 2008/8/21 Roan Kattouw <roan.kattouw[at]home.nl>:
>> Guy Van den Broeck schreef:
>>> I understand. Maybe this process should be better documented.
>>> At any rate, it can be communicated without insulting other people's
>>> work in good faith.
>>>
>>> I tried simplifying the strings in r39776. This is as simple as I can
>>> make it. The problem is that a string is constructed with as many
>>> parts as there are changed tags, and each part is subdivided in as
>>> many parts as there are arguments. This is all glued together with
>>> keywords. I can't do any better than this.
>> I haven't looked at your last commit, so I don't know whether you're
>> aware of the feature I'm gonna tell you about or whether you used it in
>> your last commit, but calling wfMsg('messagekey', 'foo', 'bar') will
>> replace all occurrences of $1 in the message with 'foo' and $2 with
>> 'bar'. Messages are also 'pluralized' by using {{PLURAL:}}: "You have $1
>> new {{PLURAL:$1|message|messages}}".
>
> Yes I'm aware of that :-). I can't use it, I'd need to be able to fill
> in an array of strings in some kind of repeated substring. I don't
> think that feature is available right?
>
>>
>> Roan Kattouw (Catrope)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

I'm looking at it too. Hopefully will have another commit for this
later this afternoon.

-Chad

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