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Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14

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Simetrical+wikilist at gmail

Jul 24, 2008, 3:14 PM

Post #1 of 23 (1234 views)
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Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14

Well, with the release notes freshly trimmed for 1.14, it seems like a
good time to bring this up. A while back, someone or other removed
references in specific RELEASE-NOTES features to who submitted the
patch to fix the feature. Brion reverted that, calling it bad form.
The thing is, though, that's exactly the policy we follow for everyone
who contributes to the project: there's no mention in the release
notes. The only way you could find out who actually develops
MediaWiki at present is by hunting through commit logs and trying to
match up names with commit aliases somehow. Special:Version is very
incomplete, and most of the people listed aren't currently active.

A lot of projects mention who contributed to specific versions, and I
think it would be perfectly reasonable for us to do the same. I would
suggest two sections of contributors: people who contributed code to
the specific version, and people who contributed translations. Each
one could be ordered alphabetically by last name, or some other
criterion if people think of one. (Like putting Brion and Tim at top,
and maybe putting regular committers above one-time patch submitters.)
If someone contributes a patch via Bugzilla or whatever, they get
added to the list like anyone who personally committed code, not
inline with the feature they added.

What does everyone think?

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innocentkiller at gmail

Jul 24, 2008, 5:04 PM

Post #2 of 23 (1198 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Simetrical
<Simetrical+wikilist [at] gmail> wrote:
> Well, with the release notes freshly trimmed for 1.14, it seems like a
> good time to bring this up. A while back, someone or other removed
> references in specific RELEASE-NOTES features to who submitted the
> patch to fix the feature. Brion reverted that, calling it bad form.
> The thing is, though, that's exactly the policy we follow for everyone
> who contributes to the project: there's no mention in the release
> notes. The only way you could find out who actually develops
> MediaWiki at present is by hunting through commit logs and trying to
> match up names with commit aliases somehow. Special:Version is very
> incomplete, and most of the people listed aren't currently active.
>
> A lot of projects mention who contributed to specific versions, and I
> think it would be perfectly reasonable for us to do the same. I would
> suggest two sections of contributors: people who contributed code to
> the specific version, and people who contributed translations. Each
> one could be ordered alphabetically by last name, or some other
> criterion if people think of one. (Like putting Brion and Tim at top,
> and maybe putting regular committers above one-time patch submitters.)
> If someone contributes a patch via Bugzilla or whatever, they get
> added to the list like anyone who personally committed code, not
> inline with the feature they added.
>
> What does everyone think?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

I'm all for it. I think it's a great way to give credit to those who help out
in various ways (contributing patches, translations) but don't necessarily
get a share of the spotlight. That's not to say that it should be seen as
some sort of badge to wear, just a matter of giving credit where credit
is due. I'd be more than willing to add "Patch by so-and-so" or whatever
the determined format is.

-Chad

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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Jul 24, 2008, 5:09 PM

Post #3 of 23 (1202 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

Hoi,
Remember to attribute the many people who contribute through the
localisation effort of Betawiki... *This *is what makes MediaWiki usable for
more then half our public.
Thanks,
GerardM

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 2:04 AM, Chad <innocentkiller [at] gmail> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Simetrical
> <Simetrical+wikilist [at] gmail <Simetrical%2Bwikilist [at] gmail>> wrote:
> > Well, with the release notes freshly trimmed for 1.14, it seems like a
> > good time to bring this up. A while back, someone or other removed
> > references in specific RELEASE-NOTES features to who submitted the
> > patch to fix the feature. Brion reverted that, calling it bad form.
> > The thing is, though, that's exactly the policy we follow for everyone
> > who contributes to the project: there's no mention in the release
> > notes. The only way you could find out who actually develops
> > MediaWiki at present is by hunting through commit logs and trying to
> > match up names with commit aliases somehow. Special:Version is very
> > incomplete, and most of the people listed aren't currently active.
> >
> > A lot of projects mention who contributed to specific versions, and I
> > think it would be perfectly reasonable for us to do the same. I would
> > suggest two sections of contributors: people who contributed code to
> > the specific version, and people who contributed translations. Each
> > one could be ordered alphabetically by last name, or some other
> > criterion if people think of one. (Like putting Brion and Tim at top,
> > and maybe putting regular committers above one-time patch submitters.)
> > If someone contributes a patch via Bugzilla or whatever, they get
> > added to the list like anyone who personally committed code, not
> > inline with the feature they added.
> >
> > What does everyone think?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l [at] lists
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
>
> I'm all for it. I think it's a great way to give credit to those who help
> out
> in various ways (contributing patches, translations) but don't necessarily
> get a share of the spotlight. That's not to say that it should be seen as
> some sort of badge to wear, just a matter of giving credit where credit
> is due. I'd be more than willing to add "Patch by so-and-so" or whatever
> the determined format is.
>
> -Chad
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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minuteelectron at googlemail

Jul 24, 2008, 5:11 PM

Post #4 of 23 (1201 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

Simetrical wrote:
> Well, with the release notes freshly trimmed for 1.14, it seems like a
> good time to bring this up. A while back, someone or other removed
> references in specific RELEASE-NOTES features to who submitted the
> patch to fix the feature. Brion reverted that, calling it bad form.
> The thing is, though, that's exactly the policy we follow for everyone
> who contributes to the project: there's no mention in the release
> notes. The only way you could find out who actually develops
> MediaWiki at present is by hunting through commit logs and trying to
> match up names with commit aliases somehow. Special:Version is very
> incomplete, and most of the people listed aren't currently active.
>
> A lot of projects mention who contributed to specific versions, and I
> think it would be perfectly reasonable for us to do the same. I would
> suggest two sections of contributors: people who contributed code to
> the specific version, and people who contributed translations. Each
> one could be ordered alphabetically by last name, or some other
> criterion if people think of one. (Like putting Brion and Tim at top,
> and maybe putting regular committers above one-time patch submitters.)
> If someone contributes a patch via Bugzilla or whatever, they get
> added to the list like anyone who personally committed code, not
> inline with the feature they added.
>
> What does everyone think?

Perhaps an AUTHORS or CONTRIBUTORS text file would be nice, I've seen it
done in various other pieces of open source software. Listing all the
names there would be good, and probably help with regards to attribution
and GPL compliance. Having it in a separate file in a common format (as
opposed to strewn about RELEASE-NOTES) would mean that it could be
parsed if someone wanted to do so (right now it is difficult to get a
comprehensive list of contributors without going through each of the
files and scanning for @author tags - even that isn't complete). It
could also remove duplication.

MinuteElectron.

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minuteelectron at googlemail

Jul 24, 2008, 5:13 PM

Post #5 of 23 (1201 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> Hoi,
> Remember to attribute the many people who contribute through the
> localisation effort of Betawiki... *This *is what makes MediaWiki usable for
> more then half our public.
> Thanks,
> GerardM

This already happens, but there was no suggestion to remove the names of
translators, or not to put them in any attribution file. I'm sure that
siebrand or Nikerabbit could supply a list of names and regularly update
such a file (perhaps more easily if translators were split into a
different list though).

MinuteElectron.

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innocentkiller at gmail

Jul 24, 2008, 10:59 PM

Post #6 of 23 (1195 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 8:13 PM, MinuteElectron
<minuteelectron [at] googlemail> wrote:
> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>> Hoi,
>> Remember to attribute the many people who contribute through the
>> localisation effort of Betawiki... *This *is what makes MediaWiki usable for
>> more then half our public.
>> Thanks,
>> GerardM
>
> This already happens, but there was no suggestion to remove the names of
> translators, or not to put them in any attribution file. I'm sure that
> siebrand or Nikerabbit could supply a list of names and regularly update
> such a file (perhaps more easily if translators were split into a
> different list though).
>
> MinuteElectron.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

I've been bold and added a CREDITS file to the current trunk (r38020). Listed
alphabetically by first name (or username, if I didn't know the real name) are
Developers (those with commit) Patch submitters (people who don't commit
but help on Bugzilla/IRC/etc), and translators. I suppose it's simple enough to
update the list with new names as they occur.

Thoughts on it? Change of style?

-Chad

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niklas.laxstrom at gmail

Jul 25, 2008, 5:17 AM

Post #7 of 23 (1176 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

On 25/07/2008, MinuteElectron <minuteelectron [at] googlemail> wrote:
> I'm sure that
> siebrand or Nikerabbit could supply a list of names and regularly update
> such a file (perhaps more easily if translators were split into a
> different list though).
>

It's not that straightforward.

Which translators to include?
- core and extensions or only core
- only translators after some specific date
- everyone who has ever changed a message that is still in use
- only the people who 'own' a latest edit in any of the messages
(currently in use with no-remove policy)
- people who do maintenance work for all languages

Will the file be cleared for every release?

Which format to use?
- real name (not currently available for use in Betawiki)
- user name (currently in use)
- email address
- year

Will the credits in message files stay as-is?

These are the things that I can quickly think of. I'd like to note,
again, we are quite busy. I don't want to sound desperate, but it
shows up already.

--
Niklas Laxstr�m

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innocentkiller at gmail

Jul 25, 2008, 9:00 AM

Post #8 of 23 (1172 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Niklas Laxstr�m
<niklas.laxstrom [at] gmail> wrote:
> On 25/07/2008, MinuteElectron <minuteelectron [at] googlemail> wrote:
>> I'm sure that
>> siebrand or Nikerabbit could supply a list of names and regularly update
>> such a file (perhaps more easily if translators were split into a
>> different list though).
>>
>
> It's not that straightforward.
>
> Which translators to include?
> - core and extensions or only core
> - only translators after some specific date
> - everyone who has ever changed a message that is still in use
> - only the people who 'own' a latest edit in any of the messages
> (currently in use with no-remove policy)
> - people who do maintenance work for all languages
>

I would say only core. As the CREDITS is aimed only at core software,
the associated "Translators" list should be on the same core. If various
extensions want to give credit (I think a few other extensions have a
CREDITS-type file?), then they can do it themselves. I would say add
all the usernames who've contributed to messages within a specific release.

> Will the file be cleared for every release?
>

When making CREDITS, I specified at the top that it's for 1.14. I figured
that since the pool of developers changes over time (people come and go,
it's natural), it's best to list who contributed to _that_ version.
Once branched,
the CREDITS file will remain the same for that version, and a new one will
be started.

> Which format to use?
> - real name (not currently available for use in Betawiki)
> - user name (currently in use)
> - email address
> - year
>

I listed alphabetically by first name or username, whichever
is known. I'm open to other ideas, if anyone has them.

> Will the credits in message files stay as-is?
>

No reason to tweak those, IMO.

>
> These are the things that I can quickly think of. I'd like to note,
> again, we are quite busy. I don't want to sound desperate, but it
> shows up already.
>
> --
> Niklas Laxstr�m
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>

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minuteelectron at googlemail

Jul 25, 2008, 9:05 AM

Post #9 of 23 (1169 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

Chad wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Niklas Laxstr�m
> <niklas.laxstrom [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Will the file be cleared for every release?
>>
>
> When making CREDITS, I specified at the top that it's for 1.14. I figured
> that since the pool of developers changes over time (people come and go,
> it's natural), it's best to list who contributed to _that_ version.
> Once branched,
> the CREDITS file will remain the same for that version, and a new one will
> be started.

All users who contributed to a previous version will have effectively
contributed to any version after that, since there contributions will
still be in the code base. It seams unfair to remove people simply
because they did not contribute specifically to the very latest version,
even if there changes are still in use and enjoyed by the users.

MinuteElectron.

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thomas.dalton at gmail

Jul 25, 2008, 9:15 AM

Post #10 of 23 (1172 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

> All users who contributed to a previous version will have effectively
> contributed to any version after that, since there contributions will
> still be in the code base. It seams unfair to remove people simply
> because they did not contribute specifically to the very latest version,
> even if there changes are still in use and enjoyed by the users.

If we list everyone, though, the list will get prohibitively long.
Major contributors to earlier version could be listed, though.

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Simetrical+wikilist at gmail

Jul 25, 2008, 9:15 AM

Post #11 of 23 (1170 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Chad <innocentkiller [at] gmail> wrote:
> When making CREDITS, I specified at the top that it's for 1.14. I figured
> that since the pool of developers changes over time (people come and go,
> it's natural), it's best to list who contributed to _that_ version.
> Once branched,
> the CREDITS file will remain the same for that version, and a new one will
> be started.

This is why I suggested that we use RELEASE-NOTES: old RELEASE-NOTES
are already copied into HISTORY. That way, all previous developers
(who did contribute to the new version too, via the old one) will be
credited as well.

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minuteelectron at googlemail

Jul 25, 2008, 9:25 AM

Post #12 of 23 (1180 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

Thomas Dalton wrote:
> If we list everyone, though, the list will get prohibitively long.

I'm not so sure it would get that long, the CREDITS file is split into
several sections; developers will generally stay the same, only a few
being added occasionally, and there aren't that many patch contributors.

MinuteElectron.

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brion at wikimedia

Jul 27, 2008, 3:16 PM

Post #13 of 23 (1132 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

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Thomas Dalton wrote:
|> All users who contributed to a previous version will have effectively
|> contributed to any version after that, since there contributions will
|> still be in the code base. It seams unfair to remove people simply
|> because they did not contribute specifically to the very latest version,
|> even if there changes are still in use and enjoyed by the users.
|
| If we list everyone, though, the list will get prohibitively long.
| Major contributors to earlier version could be listed, though.

What's prohibitive about a long list of names in a text file?

- -- brion
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=KIy+
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Simetrical+wikilist at gmail

Jul 27, 2008, 3:22 PM

Post #14 of 23 (1128 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Brion Vibber <brion [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> What's prohibitive about a long list of names in a text file?

For one thing, it doesn't distinguish between who's being working on
the latest releases and who hasn't committed anything since 2003,
which can be a useful thing to know.

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Simetrical+wikilist at gmail

Jul 27, 2008, 3:22 PM

Post #15 of 23 (1126 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Simetrical
<Simetrical+wikilist [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Brion Vibber <brion [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>> What's prohibitive about a long list of names in a text file?
>
> For one thing, it doesn't distinguish between who's being working on
> the latest releases and who hasn't committed anything since 2003,
> which can be a useful thing to know.

Although actually, this doesn't precisely address your point, it's
still something I think is worthwhile to consider in general here.

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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Jul 28, 2008, 1:05 AM

Post #16 of 23 (1109 views)
Permalink

Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

Hoi,
We are talking about a text file that only lists names .... My question to
you, how much does it cost in size to include 1000 people? How much does it
cost to reduce this list in time and effort to bring it down by a few
hundred.. Where is the profit in doing this? Are you volunteering to do this
work that you feel needs doing ??
Thanks,
Gerard

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton [at] gmail>wrote:

> > All users who contributed to a previous version will have effectively
> > contributed to any version after that, since there contributions will
> > still be in the code base. It seams unfair to remove people simply
> > because they did not contribute specifically to the very latest version,
> > even if there changes are still in use and enjoyed by the users.
>
> If we list everyone, though, the list will get prohibitively long.
> Major contributors to earlier version could be listed, though.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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brion at wikimedia

Jul 28, 2008, 11:13 AM

Post #17 of 23 (1108 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

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Hash: SHA1

Simetrical wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Brion Vibber <brion [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>> What's prohibitive about a long list of names in a text file?
>
> For one thing, it doesn't distinguish between who's being working on
> the latest releases and who hasn't committed anything since 2003,
> which can be a useful thing to know.

Well, you could extract such a list from RELEASE-NOTES. :)

It still gives warm, fuzzy feelings to have everyone on an equal footing
in a CREDITS file. I guess that's the open-source commie hippie in me.

- -- brion
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Simetrical+wikilist at gmail

Jul 28, 2008, 11:21 AM

Post #18 of 23 (1101 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Brion Vibber <brion [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> Well, you could extract such a list from RELEASE-NOTES. :)

. . . how? That doesn't say anywhere who contributed to the version.
In fact, my initial proposal was nothing more than that we should
*add* such a list to RELEASE-NOTES.

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brion at wikimedia

Jul 28, 2008, 11:42 AM

Post #19 of 23 (1108 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

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Simetrical wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Brion Vibber <brion [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>> Well, you could extract such a list from RELEASE-NOTES. :)
>
> . . . how? That doesn't say anywhere who contributed to the version.

It should.

> In fact, my initial proposal was nothing more than that we should
> *add* such a list to RELEASE-NOTES.

Yep!

- -- brion
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Jul 28, 2008, 11:59 AM

Post #20 of 23 (1108 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Brion Vibber <brion [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> Simetrical wrote:
>> . . . how? That doesn't say anywhere who contributed to the version.
>
> It should.

So we're doing that too?

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brion at wikimedia

Jul 28, 2008, 12:15 PM

Post #21 of 23 (1106 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

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Simetrical wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Brion Vibber <brion [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>> Simetrical wrote:
>>> . . . how? That doesn't say anywhere who contributed to the version.
>> It should.
>
> So we're doing that too?

We should be, as it's a good suggestion.

- -- brion
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magnusmanske at googlemail

Jul 28, 2008, 11:51 PM

Post #22 of 23 (1091 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 8:15 PM, Brion Vibber <brion [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Simetrical wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 2:42 PM, Brion Vibber <brion [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>>> Simetrical wrote:
>>>> . . . how? That doesn't say anywhere who contributed to the version.
>>> It should.
>>
>> So we're doing that too?
>
> We should be, as it's a good suggestion.

Couldn't we get that list from SVN changes to RELEASE-NOTES? That
would give an additional incentive to update the thing when you change
something noteworthy.

Magnus

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minuteelectron at googlemail

Jul 29, 2008, 1:19 AM

Post #23 of 23 (1094 views)
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Re: Attribution in RELEASE-NOTES for 1.14 [In reply to]

Magnus Manske wrote:
> Couldn't we get that list from SVN changes to RELEASE-NOTES? That
> would give an additional incentive to update the thing when you change
> something noteworthy.

That would not include patch authors, or extra information such as real
names.

MinuteElectron.

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