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Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations

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jdforrester at gmail

Nov 23, 2011, 10:47 AM

Post #1 of 24 (1288 views)
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Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations

Dear all,

It's getting towards the end of November, which means it is time to
run the Wikimania bidding process for 2013[0].

Given the traditional absence of a formal system, I'm putting myself
forward as Jury[1] co-ordinator - a non-voting person who helps the
Jury form and Bids get started up, sets the timeline[2], and hopefully
makes sure everything happens smoothly.

In this role, I would like to make two requests:

Firstly, I'm sure the whole Wikimedia community would love to see as
many good bids as possible. There are already a few bids[3] on Meta,
but if you or your local community are thinking about putting one in,
I'd urge you to get started now - there's not much time left before
new bids will not be accepted. Making a good bid for Wikimania can be
a lot of work, but we all benefit from there being a strong field of
bids.

Secondly, I would like to invite volunteers to serve on the Wikimania
2013 jury. There is a list of general requirements on Meta[4], but to
summarise:

* The Jury will have some from the Wikimedia Foundation's Board and
staff alongside the community volunteers;
* You can't be on the Jury if you're closely involved in a Bid (it's a
conflict of interest);
* You need to have some free time during the selection period (January-March);
* We want to represent the community across the different projects and
activities; and
* We of course want a mix of people from a diverse range of
backgrounds, sexes, cultures and regions of the world.

If you wish to be involved in the Jury, please e-mail me (off-list) at
jdforrester [at] gmail - I hope we can announce the Jury in the first
week of December, so please contact me as soon as you can.

Please also consider passing this message on (and translating it!) for
your wiki's community forum for those that don't read these mailing
lists.

Thank you, and good luck to all Bids.

[0] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Jury
[2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Bids/Timeline
[3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Bids
[4] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_jury

Yours,
--
James D. Forrester
jdforrester [at] wikimedia | jdforrester [at] gmail
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

janbart at wikimedia

Nov 23, 2011, 11:07 AM

Post #2 of 24 (1258 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

Hi All,

Disclaimer: this is my personal opinion, and in no way represents any sentiments of the board.

That being said

In the past years I have seen a lot of people spend a lot of time on different bids which never made it (even though they were pretty good). Could this be the year that we change this procedure and try to do things differently? I would love to explore how we can avoid a lot of people wasting their energy...

How about taking a little time to look at these and other imperfects of the current system before jumping right in, and trying to see if we can improve it?

Jan-Bart

On 23 nov. 2011, at 19:47, James Forrester wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> It's getting towards the end of November, which means it is time to
> run the Wikimania bidding process for 2013[0].
>
> Given the traditional absence of a formal system, I'm putting myself
> forward as Jury[1] co-ordinator - a non-voting person who helps the
> Jury form and Bids get started up, sets the timeline[2], and hopefully
> makes sure everything happens smoothly.
>
> In this role, I would like to make two requests:
>
> Firstly, I'm sure the whole Wikimedia community would love to see as
> many good bids as possible. There are already a few bids[3] on Meta,
> but if you or your local community are thinking about putting one in,
> I'd urge you to get started now - there's not much time left before
> new bids will not be accepted. Making a good bid for Wikimania can be
> a lot of work, but we all benefit from there being a strong field of
> bids.
>
>
> Secondly, I would like to invite volunteers to serve on the Wikimania
> 2013 jury. There is a list of general requirements on Meta[4], but to
> summarise:
>
> * The Jury will have some from the Wikimedia Foundation's Board and
> staff alongside the community volunteers;
> * You can't be on the Jury if you're closely involved in a Bid (it's a
> conflict of interest);
> * You need to have some free time during the selection period (January-March);
> * We want to represent the community across the different projects and
> activities; and
> * We of course want a mix of people from a diverse range of
> backgrounds, sexes, cultures and regions of the world.
>
> If you wish to be involved in the Jury, please e-mail me (off-list) at
> jdforrester [at] gmail - I hope we can announce the Jury in the first
> week of December, so please contact me as soon as you can.
>
>
> Please also consider passing this message on (and translating it!) for
> your wiki's community forum for those that don't read these mailing
> lists.
>
> Thank you, and good luck to all Bids.
>
> [0] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013
> [1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Jury
> [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Bids/Timeline
> [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Bids
> [4] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_jury
>
> Yours,
> --
> James D. Forrester
> jdforrester [at] wikimedia | jdforrester [at] gmail
> [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

james at jdforrester

Nov 23, 2011, 11:17 AM

Post #3 of 24 (1250 views)
Permalink

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

On 23 November 2011 19:07, Jan-Bart de Vreede <janbart [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> In the past years I have seen a lot of people spend a lot of time on different bids which never
> made it (even though they were pretty good). Could this be the year that we change this
> procedure and try to do things differently? I would love to explore how we can avoid a lot of
> people wasting their energy...
>
> How about taking a little time to look at these and other imperfects of the current system
> before jumping right in, and trying to see if we can improve it?

Happy to pause things, but there's limited time (even if we just
awarded it today, 19 months isn't a huge amount of time to organise an
event which is quite a significant amount of work). Previously there
have been calls for the Board to establish a "Committee" of some sort
to oversee Wikimanias and try to come to some agreement about how to
improve the system - but I worry that if we start discussions about
how we're going to decide to decide we'll never get anywhere. :-)

J.
--
James D. Forrester
jdforrester [at] wikimedia | jdforrester [at] gmail
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

harel.cain at gmail

Nov 23, 2011, 11:18 AM

Post #4 of 24 (1254 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

I'd just like to be the bad guy and repeat my suggestion expressed in the
past in this list and on wikimania-planning-l that in the future Wikimania
be held every two years. The no-Wikimania years could possibly be devoted
to regional conferences, smaller in scope and cheaper to produce.

Producing a very good bid for a constantly-expanding and improving
conference, every time in another place, is a task we won't be able to
support over time.

Harel Cain
Wikimedia Israel

On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 21:07, Jan-Bart de Vreede <janbart [at] wikimedia>wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Disclaimer: this is my personal opinion, and in no way represents any
> sentiments of the board.
>
> That being said
>
> In the past years I have seen a lot of people spend a lot of time on
> different bids which never made it (even though they were pretty good).
> Could this be the year that we change this procedure and try to do things
> differently? I would love to explore how we can avoid a lot of people
> wasting their energy...
>
> How about taking a little time to look at these and other imperfects of
> the current system before jumping right in, and trying to see if we can
> improve it?
>
> Jan-Bart
>
>
>
> On 23 nov. 2011, at 19:47, James Forrester wrote:
>
> > Dear all,
> >
> > It's getting towards the end of November, which means it is time to
> > run the Wikimania bidding process for 2013[0].
> >
> > Given the traditional absence of a formal system, I'm putting myself
> > forward as Jury[1] co-ordinator - a non-voting person who helps the
> > Jury form and Bids get started up, sets the timeline[2], and hopefully
> > makes sure everything happens smoothly.
> >
> > In this role, I would like to make two requests:
> >
> > Firstly, I'm sure the whole Wikimedia community would love to see as
> > many good bids as possible. There are already a few bids[3] on Meta,
> > but if you or your local community are thinking about putting one in,
> > I'd urge you to get started now - there's not much time left before
> > new bids will not be accepted. Making a good bid for Wikimania can be
> > a lot of work, but we all benefit from there being a strong field of
> > bids.
> >
> >
> > Secondly, I would like to invite volunteers to serve on the Wikimania
> > 2013 jury. There is a list of general requirements on Meta[4], but to
> > summarise:
> >
> > * The Jury will have some from the Wikimedia Foundation's Board and
> > staff alongside the community volunteers;
> > * You can't be on the Jury if you're closely involved in a Bid (it's a
> > conflict of interest);
> > * You need to have some free time during the selection period
> (January-March);
> > * We want to represent the community across the different projects and
> > activities; and
> > * We of course want a mix of people from a diverse range of
> > backgrounds, sexes, cultures and regions of the world.
> >
> > If you wish to be involved in the Jury, please e-mail me (off-list) at
> > jdforrester [at] gmail - I hope we can announce the Jury in the first
> > week of December, so please contact me as soon as you can.
> >
> >
> > Please also consider passing this message on (and translating it!) for
> > your wiki's community forum for those that don't read these mailing
> > lists.
> >
> > Thank you, and good luck to all Bids.
> >
> > [0] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013
> > [1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Jury
> > [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Bids/Timeline
> > [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Bids
> > [4] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_jury
> >
> > Yours,
> > --
> > James D. Forrester
> > jdforrester [at] wikimedia | jdforrester [at] gmail
> > [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimania-l mailing list
> > Wikimania-l [at] lists
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>

--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

aphaia at gmail

Nov 23, 2011, 11:33 AM

Post #5 of 24 (1255 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

And/or changing the character of the event in discussion. Some other
FLOSS community/project have more mutual communication-oriented events
I heard. For example, Mozilla Summit: they, so I heard, gather less
frequently than us (once some years) and spare more time just to
interact themselves offline, it's more like to sort of retreat as far
as I imagine hearing from those who attended.

Just my 2 cent.
Cheers,

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 4:18 AM, Harel Cain <harel.cain [at] gmail> wrote:
> I'd just like to be the bad guy and repeat my suggestion expressed in the
> past in this list and on wikimania-planning-l that in the future Wikimania
> be held every two years. The no-Wikimania years could possibly be devoted to
> regional conferences, smaller in scope and cheaper to produce.
>
> Producing a very good bid for a constantly-expanding and improving
> conference, every time in another place, is a task we won't be able to
> support over time.
>
>
> Harel Cain
> Wikimedia Israel
>
> On Wed, Nov 23, 2011 at 21:07, Jan-Bart de Vreede <janbart [at] wikimedia>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Disclaimer: this is my personal opinion, and in no way represents any
>> sentiments of the board.
>>
>> That being said
>>
>> In the past years I have seen a lot of people spend a lot of time on
>> different bids which never made it (even though they were pretty good).
>> Could this be the year that we change this procedure and try to do things
>> differently? I would love to explore how we can avoid a lot of people
>> wasting their energy...
>>
>> How about taking a little time to look at these and other imperfects of
>> the current system before jumping right in, and trying to see if we can
>> improve it?
>>
>> Jan-Bart
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23 nov. 2011, at 19:47, James Forrester wrote:
>>
>> > Dear all,
>> >
>> > It's getting towards the end of November, which means it is time to
>> > run the Wikimania bidding process for 2013[0].
>> >
>> > Given the traditional absence of a formal system, I'm putting myself
>> > forward as Jury[1] co-ordinator - a non-voting person who helps the
>> > Jury form and Bids get started up, sets the timeline[2], and hopefully
>> > makes sure everything happens smoothly.
>> >
>> > In this role, I would like to make two requests:
>> >
>> > Firstly, I'm sure the whole Wikimedia community would love to see as
>> > many good bids as possible. There are already a few bids[3] on Meta,
>> > but if you or your local community are thinking about putting one in,
>> > I'd urge you to get started now - there's not much time left before
>> > new bids will not be accepted. Making a good bid for Wikimania can be
>> > a lot of work, but we all benefit from there being a strong field of
>> > bids.
>> >
>> >
>> > Secondly, I would like to invite volunteers to serve on the Wikimania
>> > 2013 jury. There is a list of general requirements on Meta[4], but to
>> > summarise:
>> >
>> > * The Jury will have some from the Wikimedia Foundation's Board and
>> > staff alongside the community volunteers;
>> > * You can't be on the Jury if you're closely involved in a Bid (it's a
>> > conflict of interest);
>> > * You need to have some free time during the selection period
>> > (January-March);
>> > * We want to represent the community across the different projects and
>> > activities; and
>> > * We of course want a mix of people from a diverse range of
>> > backgrounds, sexes, cultures and regions of the world.
>> >
>> > If you wish to be involved in the Jury, please e-mail me (off-list) at
>> > jdforrester [at] gmail - I hope we can announce the Jury in the first
>> > week of December, so please contact me as soon as you can.
>> >
>> >
>> > Please also consider passing this message on (and translating it!) for
>> > your wiki's community forum for those that don't read these mailing
>> > lists.
>> >
>> > Thank you, and good luck to all Bids.
>> >
>> > [0] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013
>> > [1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Jury
>> > [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Bids/Timeline
>> > [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Bids
>> > [4] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_jury
>> >
>> > Yours,
>> > --
>> > James D. Forrester
>> > jdforrester [at] wikimedia | jdforrester [at] gmail
>> > [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimania-l mailing list
>> > Wikimania-l [at] lists
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l [at] lists
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
>
> --
> Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>

--
KIZU Naoko / $BLZDE>0;R(B
member of Wikimedians in Kansai / $B4X@>%&%#%-%a%G%#%"%f!<%62q(B http://kansai.wikimedia.jp

_______________________________________________
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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

james at jdforrester

Nov 23, 2011, 11:34 AM

Post #6 of 24 (1253 views)
Permalink

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

On 23 November 2011 19:31, Jan-Bart de Vreede <janbart [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> On 23 nov. 2011, at 20:17, James Forrester wrote:
>> On 23 November 2011 19:07, Jan-Bart de Vreede <janbart [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>>> In the past years I have seen a lot of people spend a lot of time on different bids which never
>>> made it (even though they were pretty good). Could this be the year that we change this
>>> procedure and try to do things differently? I would love to explore how we can avoid a lot of
>>> people wasting their energy...
>>>
>>> How about taking a little time to look at these and other imperfects of the current system
>>> before jumping right in, and trying to see if we can improve it?
>>
>> Happy to pause things, but there's limited time (even if we just
>> awarded it today, 19 months isn't a huge amount of time to organise an
>> event which is quite a significant amount of work). Previously there
>> have been calls for the Board to establish a "Committee" of some sort
>> to oversee Wikimanias and try to come to some agreement about how to
>> improve the system - but I worry that if we start discussions about
>> how we're going to decide to decide we'll never get anywhere. :-)
>
> true,
>
> And if I am the only one having these concerns then no worries, but taking a
> couple of days to share concerns might be a good idea :)

Sure. I'm totally not going to try to rail-road this discussion (or
maybe it should be on-wiki?) by announcing a Jury when we're not sure
how we'll proceed. :-)

J.
--
James D. Forrester
jdforrester [at] wikimedia | jdforrester [at] gmail
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

thomas.dalton at gmail

Nov 23, 2011, 3:29 PM

Post #7 of 24 (1252 views)
Permalink

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

It's too late for this year, since a lot of bids have already started, but
in future I would suggest formalising the currently unofficial rotation
policy.

If everyone knew in advance what continent it was going to be in, you won't
have bids that are disadvantaged from the outset because they're on the
wrong continent.
On Nov 23, 2011 7:07 PM, "Jan-Bart de Vreede" <janbart [at] wikimedia> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Disclaimer: this is my personal opinion, and in no way represents any
> sentiments of the board.
>
> That being said
>
> In the past years I have seen a lot of people spend a lot of time on
> different bids which never made it (even though they were pretty good).
> Could this be the year that we change this procedure and try to do things
> differently? I would love to explore how we can avoid a lot of people
> wasting their energy...
>
> How about taking a little time to look at these and other imperfects of
> the current system before jumping right in, and trying to see if we can
> improve it?
>
> Jan-Bart
>
>
>
> On 23 nov. 2011, at 19:47, James Forrester wrote:
>
> > Dear all,
> >
> > It's getting towards the end of November, which means it is time to
> > run the Wikimania bidding process for 2013[0].
> >
> > Given the traditional absence of a formal system, I'm putting myself
> > forward as Jury[1] co-ordinator - a non-voting person who helps the
> > Jury form and Bids get started up, sets the timeline[2], and hopefully
> > makes sure everything happens smoothly.
> >
> > In this role, I would like to make two requests:
> >
> > Firstly, I'm sure the whole Wikimedia community would love to see as
> > many good bids as possible. There are already a few bids[3] on Meta,
> > but if you or your local community are thinking about putting one in,
> > I'd urge you to get started now - there's not much time left before
> > new bids will not be accepted. Making a good bid for Wikimania can be
> > a lot of work, but we all benefit from there being a strong field of
> > bids.
> >
> >
> > Secondly, I would like to invite volunteers to serve on the Wikimania
> > 2013 jury. There is a list of general requirements on Meta[4], but to
> > summarise:
> >
> > * The Jury will have some from the Wikimedia Foundation's Board and
> > staff alongside the community volunteers;
> > * You can't be on the Jury if you're closely involved in a Bid (it's a
> > conflict of interest);
> > * You need to have some free time during the selection period
> (January-March);
> > * We want to represent the community across the different projects and
> > activities; and
> > * We of course want a mix of people from a diverse range of
> > backgrounds, sexes, cultures and regions of the world.
> >
> > If you wish to be involved in the Jury, please e-mail me (off-list) at
> > jdforrester [at] gmail - I hope we can announce the Jury in the first
> > week of December, so please contact me as soon as you can.
> >
> >
> > Please also consider passing this message on (and translating it!) for
> > your wiki's community forum for those that don't read these mailing
> > lists.
> >
> > Thank you, and good luck to all Bids.
> >
> > [0] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013
> > [1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Jury
> > [2] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Bids/Timeline
> > [3] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013/Bids
> > [4] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_jury
> >
> > Yours,
> > --
> > James D. Forrester
> > jdforrester [at] wikimedia | jdforrester [at] gmail
> > [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimania-l mailing list
> > Wikimania-l [at] lists
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

saintonge at telus

Nov 24, 2011, 12:19 AM

Post #8 of 24 (1252 views)
Permalink

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

On 11/23/11 3:29 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>
> It's too late for this year, since a lot of bids have already started,
> but in future I would suggest formalising the currently unofficial
> rotation policy.
>
> If everyone knew in advance what continent it was going to be in, you
> won't have bids that are disadvantaged from the outset because they're
> on the wrong continent.
>
>
While the rotation principle is a positive factor, i think it would be a
mistake to formalize it. That could leave us stuck with accepting a bid
that is considerably inferior from one from elsewhere.

Ray

_______________________________________________
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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

saintonge at telus

Nov 24, 2011, 12:55 AM

Post #9 of 24 (1253 views)
Permalink

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

On 11/23/11 11:17 AM, James Forrester wrote:
> On 23 November 2011 19:07, Jan-Bart de Vreede<janbart [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>> In the past years I have seen a lot of people spend a lot of time on different bids which never
>> made it (even though they were pretty good). Could this be the year that we change this
>> procedure and try to do things differently? I would love to explore how we can avoid a lot of
>> people wasting their energy...
>>
>> How about taking a little time to look at these and other imperfects of the current system
>> before jumping right in, and trying to see if we can improve it?
> Happy to pause things, but there's limited time (even if we just
> awarded it today, 19 months isn't a huge amount of time to organise an
> event which is quite a significant amount of work). Previously there
> have been calls for the Board to establish a "Committee" of some sort
> to oversee Wikimanias and try to come to some agreement about how to
> improve the system - but I worry that if we start discussions about
> how we're going to decide to decide we'll never get anywhere. :-)
>

I agree that 19 months is short. The first three didn't even have that
much time.

Bidding is still a competitive process. I remember that the organizers
from Turin were very upset when their excellent bid failed. To get the
best bid I don't think we can avoid competition, though we can probably
develop a short list fairly early on, so that the less likely candidates
can limit their efforts.

Ray

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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

jerry.tschan.yu at gmail

Nov 24, 2011, 1:21 AM

Post #10 of 24 (1258 views)
Permalink

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

I am not sure about that is a waste of energy though

for area with a chapter like us in Hong Kong
such a bid is a nice cause to get reach people around
to seek potential sponsor for smaller scale events

and a great way to test out our connections

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 16:55, Ray Saintonge <saintonge [at] telus> wrote:

> On 11/23/11 11:17 AM, James Forrester wrote:
> > On 23 November 2011 19:07, Jan-Bart de Vreede<janbart [at] wikimedia>
> wrote:
> >> In the past years I have seen a lot of people spend a lot of time on
> different bids which never
> >> made it (even though they were pretty good). Could this be the year
> that we change this
> >> procedure and try to do things differently? I would love to explore how
> we can avoid a lot of
> >> people wasting their energy...
> >>
> >> How about taking a little time to look at these and other imperfects of
> the current system
> >> before jumping right in, and trying to see if we can improve it?
> > Happy to pause things, but there's limited time (even if we just
> > awarded it today, 19 months isn't a huge amount of time to organise an
> > event which is quite a significant amount of work). Previously there
> > have been calls for the Board to establish a "Committee" of some sort
> > to oversee Wikimanias and try to come to some agreement about how to
> > improve the system - but I worry that if we start discussions about
> > how we're going to decide to decide we'll never get anywhere. :-)
> >
>
> I agree that 19 months is short. The first three didn't even have that
> much time.
>
> Bidding is still a competitive process. I remember that the organizers
> from Turin were very upset when their excellent bid failed. To get the
> best bid I don't think we can avoid competition, though we can probably
> develop a short list fairly early on, so that the less likely candidates
> can limit their efforts.
>
> Ray
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>

--
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thomas.dalton at gmail

Nov 24, 2011, 2:57 AM

Post #11 of 24 (1248 views)
Permalink

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

On Nov 24, 2011 8:21 AM, "Ray Saintonge" <saintonge [at] telus> wrote:
>
> On 11/23/11 3:29 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> >
> > It's too late for this year, since a lot of bids have already started,
> > but in future I would suggest formalising the currently unofficial
> > rotation policy.
> >
> > If everyone knew in advance what continent it was going to be in, you
> > won't have bids that are disadvantaged from the outset because they're
> > on the wrong continent.
> >
> >
> While the rotation principle is a positive factor, i think it would be a
> mistake to formalize it. That could leave us stuck with accepting a bid
> that is considerably inferior from one from elsewhere.

My idea is that there wouldn't be bids from elsewhere. There would be a
smaller number of bids, each with a much higher chance of success, meaning
teams can justify putting more time, money and effort into them. People
from elsewhere could support those bids, since they wouldn't be trying to
put together bids of their own.

I expect the end result would be better bids and less wasted resources.

peteforsyth at gmail

Dec 14, 2011, 6:03 PM

Post #12 of 24 (1230 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 12:21 AM,
<wikimania-l-request [at] lists>wrote:

> Sure. I'm totally not going to try to rail-road this discussion (or
> maybe it should be on-wiki?) by announcing a Jury when we're not sure
> how we'll proceed. :-)
>
> J.
> --
> James D. Forrester
> jdforrester [at] wikimedia | jdforrester [at] gmail
> [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]

There were some useful responses to James' initial message, but I think the
end result (through nobody's intention) was to get us off track from
selecting a jury for 2013. There are a number of groups working on bids
[1]; I think it would be a good thing to get a jury announced so they (we?
[2]) can begin laying out the process and guiding toward a decision.

This is not intended to dismiss the important "meta issue" about how
locations are selected. I agree with what has been said, that it is too
late to impose some sort of rotation system for the 2013 process; but I do
think it's an idea well worth some deeper consideration. I think that
having an active jury would be beneficial to arriving at a well-considered
decision on that, so I really don't see a conflict here.

I'm hoping to hear from some other folks here: should we encourage James F.
to resume his planned course, and select/announce a jury ASAP, without
prejudice toward the question of whether a rotation system is implemented
after 2013?

Jan-Bart? Perhaps a plate of stroopwafels will help move the discussion
forward?

-Pete

[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013_bids
[2] I have thrown my name in the ring and would like to have a decision
soon, since it will affect how I spend my next few months.

manuel.schneider at wikimedia

Dec 15, 2011, 2:42 AM

Post #13 of 24 (1233 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

Dear all,

Am 15.12.2011 03:03, schrieb Pete Forsyth:
> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 12:21 AM,
> <wikimania-l-request [at] lists>wrote:

>> Sure. I'm totally not going to try to rail-road this discussion (or
>> maybe it should be on-wiki?) by announcing a Jury when we're not sure
>> how we'll proceed. :-)

> I'm hoping to hear from some other folks here: should we encourage James F.
> to resume his planned course, and select/announce a jury ASAP, without
> prejudice toward the question of whether a rotation system is implemented
> after 2013?

I was a bit distracted for the last two weeks and my last status was
James' call for bids and jury members.

From my POV we should proceed with this quickly - I remember the
discussion derailed a bit stating that the timeline is already quite
tense. While that's true it didn't help us getting to work ;-)

I know that James sent a few mails to potential jury members. My
suggestion is that he puts the names of those who agreed here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013_jury

Then we may have a short discussion / selection, define the actual jury
by the end of next week and then get things finally rolling.

My five Euro �.

Regards,

Manuel
--
Regards
Manuel Schneider

Wikimedia CH - Verein zur F�rderung Freien Wissens
Wikimedia CH - Association for the advancement of free knowledge
www.wikimedia.ch

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

lodewijk at effeietsanders

Dec 15, 2011, 3:15 AM

Post #14 of 24 (1226 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

Nah, lets not wind ourselves up unnecessarily. There is still plenty of
time - as long as the winners are known around june/july. A full year
should be enough to organize a Wikimania.

Lodewijk

No dia 15 de Dezembro de 2011 11:42, Manuel Schneider <
manuel.schneider [at] wikimedia> escreveu:

> Dear all,
>
> Am 15.12.2011 03:03, schrieb Pete Forsyth:
> > On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 12:21 AM,
> > <wikimania-l-request [at] lists>wrote:
>
> >> Sure. I'm totally not going to try to rail-road this discussion (or
> >> maybe it should be on-wiki?) by announcing a Jury when we're not sure
> >> how we'll proceed. :-)
>
> > I'm hoping to hear from some other folks here: should we encourage James
> F.
> > to resume his planned course, and select/announce a jury ASAP, without
> > prejudice toward the question of whether a rotation system is implemented
> > after 2013?
>
> I was a bit distracted for the last two weeks and my last status was
> James' call for bids and jury members.
>
> From my POV we should proceed with this quickly - I remember the
> discussion derailed a bit stating that the timeline is already quite
> tense. While that's true it didn't help us getting to work ;-)
>
> I know that James sent a few mails to potential jury members. My
> suggestion is that he puts the names of those who agreed here:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013_jury
>
> Then we may have a short discussion / selection, define the actual jury
> by the end of next week and then get things finally rolling.
>
> My five Euro �.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Manuel
> --
> Regards
> Manuel Schneider
>
> Wikimedia CH - Verein zur F�rderung Freien Wissens
> Wikimedia CH - Association for the advancement of free knowledge
> www.wikimedia.ch
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>

lodewijk at effeietsanders

Dec 26, 2011, 3:26 PM

Post #15 of 24 (1191 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

(for the record, because there seems to be some confusion: I think it would
be good to have clearity on the timeline, but I don't agree that there is
an urgency to announce the jury soon - if the quality of the jury is
improved by waiting a bit because we're short of candidates or any other
random reason, I'm all for taking a little extra time.)

Lodewijk

No dia 15 de Dezembro de 2011 12:15, Lodewijk
<lodewijk [at] effeietsanders>escreveu:

> Nah, lets not wind ourselves up unnecessarily. There is still plenty of
> time - as long as the winners are known around june/july. A full year
> should be enough to organize a Wikimania.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> No dia 15 de Dezembro de 2011 11:42, Manuel Schneider <
> manuel.schneider [at] wikimedia> escreveu:
>
> Dear all,
>>
>> Am 15.12.2011 03:03, schrieb Pete Forsyth:
>> > On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 12:21 AM,
>> > <wikimania-l-request [at] lists>wrote:
>>
>> >> Sure. I'm totally not going to try to rail-road this discussion (or
>> >> maybe it should be on-wiki?) by announcing a Jury when we're not sure
>> >> how we'll proceed. :-)
>>
>> > I'm hoping to hear from some other folks here: should we encourage
>> James F.
>> > to resume his planned course, and select/announce a jury ASAP, without
>> > prejudice toward the question of whether a rotation system is
>> implemented
>> > after 2013?
>>
>> I was a bit distracted for the last two weeks and my last status was
>> James' call for bids and jury members.
>>
>> From my POV we should proceed with this quickly - I remember the
>> discussion derailed a bit stating that the timeline is already quite
>> tense. While that's true it didn't help us getting to work ;-)
>>
>> I know that James sent a few mails to potential jury members. My
>> suggestion is that he puts the names of those who agreed here:
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2013_jury
>>
>> Then we may have a short discussion / selection, define the actual jury
>> by the end of next week and then get things finally rolling.
>>
>> My five Euro �.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Manuel
>> --
>> Regards
>> Manuel Schneider
>>
>> Wikimedia CH - Verein zur F�rderung Freien Wissens
>> Wikimedia CH - Association for the advancement of free knowledge
>> www.wikimedia.ch
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l [at] lists
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>
>

james at jdforrester

Dec 30, 2011, 11:45 AM

Post #16 of 24 (1180 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

On 26 December 2011 23:26, Lodewijk <lodewijk [at] effeietsanders> wrote:
> (for the record, because there seems to be some confusion: I think it would
> be good to have clearity on the timeline, but I don't agree that there is an
> urgency to announce the jury soon - if the quality of the jury is improved
> by waiting a bit because we're short of candidates or any other random
> reason, I'm all for taking a little extra time.)

OK, well, given the lack of movement on this issue[0], and given some
discussion here, on wiki and on IRC, I propose to proceed with the
plan and announce a Jury for Wikimania 2013 later today/tomorrow.

My idea is that the 2013 selection will happen under the current
rules[1], and that we (in parallel) try to work out properly how we as
a community want the meta-level decisions like "how do we decide who
gets Wikimania each year?" and "just what do we want Wikimania to be
anyway?". Certainly I hope that we have decided this by the time many
of us meet in Washington DC this (Northern hemisphere) Summer!

Yours,

[0] - There's https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Advisory_Group
which looks like it could work out in the next few months, but not
with enough time to get Wikimania 2013 properly sorted out with a
decent space of time.

[1] - Honestly, if you've never organised a Wikimania, it's
astonishing just how much work is involved; giving the team just over
a year can be very demanding - this is something I'd love for the
"Wikimania Advisory Group" or whatever to help simplify.

James
--
James D. Forrester
jdforrester [at] wikimedia | jdforrester [at] gmail
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]

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de10011 at gmail

Jan 4, 2012, 3:49 PM

Post #17 of 24 (1162 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 5:45 PM, James Forrester <james [at] jdforrester>wrote:

>
> OK, well, given the lack of movement on this issue[0], and given some
> discussion here, on wiki and on IRC, I propose to proceed with the
> plan and announce a Jury for Wikimania 2013 later today/tomorrow.

James?

I was looking at the page on Meta for Wikimania 2013, it still mentions
December 1st as the Jury selection date.

The bidding closes later this month. Has a decision been made? or can we
update the page about when the jury is likely to be decided?

I know the holiday season and the end of the year was a busy time. I
completely understand that others might be busy, but I'd love to help out
if I can.

Regards
Theo

deryckchan at gmail

Jan 9, 2012, 3:49 PM

Post #18 of 24 (1153 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

It's been another few days into January. Has the jury been selected yet?

On 4 January 2012 23:49, Theo10011 <de10011 [at] gmail> wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 5:45 PM, James Forrester <james [at] jdforrester>wrote:
>
>>
>> OK, well, given the lack of movement on this issue[0], and given some
>> discussion here, on wiki and on IRC, I propose to proceed with the
>> plan and announce a Jury for Wikimania 2013 later today/tomorrow.
>
>
> James?
>
> I was looking at the page on Meta for Wikimania 2013, it still mentions
> December 1st as the Jury selection date.
>
> The bidding closes later this month. Has a decision been made? or can we
> update the page about when the jury is likely to be decided?
>
> I know the holiday season and the end of the year was a busy time. I
> completely understand that others might be busy, but I'd love to help out
> if I can.
>
> Regards
> Theo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>

christianj162000 at gmail

Jan 9, 2012, 7:44 PM

Post #19 of 24 (1142 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

Let us hope that the left wing bias and the feminist hate movement will be
excluded. I have great doubts as they have already corrupted endless
entries on the site, beyond repair. Manipulating it with their
doctrinal bias and misinformation to such as degree as to make the entire
site, useless (Dr Micheal Flood has confessed in doing so, a site editor).
Steps should be taken to exclude them and ensure the information is
corrected.

That should be the priority in future jury selection.

Christian J.

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Deryck Chan <deryckchan [at] gmail> wrote:

> It's been another few days into January. Has the jury been selected yet?
>
> On 4 January 2012 23:49, Theo10011 <de10011 [at] gmail> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 5:45 PM, James Forrester <james [at] jdforrester>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> OK, well, given the lack of movement on this issue[0], and given some
>>> discussion here, on wiki and on IRC, I propose to proceed with the
>>> plan and announce a Jury for Wikimania 2013 later today/tomorrow.
>>
>>
>> James?
>>
>> I was looking at the page on Meta for Wikimania 2013, it still mentions
>> December 1st as the Jury selection date.
>>
>> The bidding closes later this month. Has a decision been made? or can we
>> update the page about when the jury is likely to be decided?
>>
>> I know the holiday season and the end of the year was a busy time. I
>> completely understand that others might be busy, but I'd love to help out
>> if I can.
>>
>> Regards
>> Theo
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l [at] lists
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>

manuel.schneider at wikimedia

Jan 9, 2012, 10:53 PM

Post #20 of 24 (1148 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

On 10.01.2012 00:49, Deryck Chan wrote:
> It's been another few days into January. Has the jury been selected yet?

well, who is "selecting" the jury?

So far as I know this is a community process, so everyone with a plan
could come up and take this into her / his hand.

I am hesitant because James Forrester already started to ask potential
jury members and engaged in setting up the process, so it looked like he
had the plan for 2013 at least and I don't want to mess with the work he
has already done.

So it would be good if he could give us a short update what he plans to
do or if someone else could / should take over.

Regards,

Manuel
--
Regards
Manuel Schneider

Wikimedia CH - Verein zur F�rderung Freien Wissens
Wikimedia CH - Association for the advancement of free knowledge
www.wikimedia.ch

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

james at jdforrester

Jan 12, 2012, 10:20 AM

Post #21 of 24 (1130 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

On 10 January 2012 06:53, Manuel Schneider
<manuel.schneider [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> On 10.01.2012 00:49, Deryck Chan wrote:
>> It's been another few days into January. Has the jury been selected yet?
>
> well, who is "selecting" the jury?
>
> So far as I know this is a community process, so everyone with a plan
> could come up and take this into her / his hand.
>
> I am hesitant because James Forrester already started to ask potential
> jury members and engaged in setting up the process, so it looked like he
> had the plan for 2013 at least and I don't want to mess with the work he
> has already done.
>
> So it would be good if he could give us a short update what he plans to
> do or if someone else could / should take over.

Hey everyone,

Really sorry for the delay in this. A bunch of issues around this (and
IRL workload) have delayed me hugely; my apologies.

I propose to just charge ahead and announce a Jury in an hour's time
or so; I've tried my best to balance it (in the same way that we did
in previous years), which is not perfect - not by a long shot - but
gets us:

(a) a Jury in place to make a decision in the next couple of months so
that 2013 bids can actually happen, and

(b) gives us a really good reason for this to be the last-ever Jury
created in this way, as I said on 30 December; I really don't want
this to be the process for 2014 (even if I dump this part on someone
else).

I hope this meets with everyone's approval (OK, the majority's
acceptance - asking for mass approval is perhaps too much!).

Yours,
--
James D. Forrester
jdforrester [at] wikimedia | jdforrester [at] gmail
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
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https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

peteforsyth at gmail

Jan 12, 2012, 10:32 AM

Post #22 of 24 (1129 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

Works great for me, James -- glad for the update, and I personally think
that at this point, almost any clear path forward is better than continuing
to wonder. I'm sure you'll do fine with picking a jury :)

Good luck getting through the RL work too!
-Pete

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 10:20 AM, James Forrester <james [at] jdforrester>wrote:

> On 10 January 2012 06:53, Manuel Schneider
> <manuel.schneider [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> > On 10.01.2012 00:49, Deryck Chan wrote:
> >> It's been another few days into January. Has the jury been selected yet?
> >
> > well, who is "selecting" the jury?
> >
> > So far as I know this is a community process, so everyone with a plan
> > could come up and take this into her / his hand.
> >
> > I am hesitant because James Forrester already started to ask potential
> > jury members and engaged in setting up the process, so it looked like he
> > had the plan for 2013 at least and I don't want to mess with the work he
> > has already done.
> >
> > So it would be good if he could give us a short update what he plans to
> > do or if someone else could / should take over.
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> Really sorry for the delay in this. A bunch of issues around this (and
> IRL workload) have delayed me hugely; my apologies.
>
> I propose to just charge ahead and announce a Jury in an hour's time
> or so; I've tried my best to balance it (in the same way that we did
> in previous years), which is not perfect - not by a long shot - but
> gets us:
>
> (a) a Jury in place to make a decision in the next couple of months so
> that 2013 bids can actually happen, and
>
> (b) gives us a really good reason for this to be the last-ever Jury
> created in this way, as I said on 30 December; I really don't want
> this to be the process for 2014 (even if I dump this part on someone
> else).
>
> I hope this meets with everyone's approval (OK, the majority's
> acceptance - asking for mass approval is perhaps too much!).
>
> Yours,
> --
> James D. Forrester
> jdforrester [at] wikimedia | jdforrester [at] gmail
> [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l [at] lists
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>

peteforsyth at gmail

Jan 12, 2012, 10:33 AM

Post #23 of 24 (1130 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

manuel.schneider at wikimedia

Jan 12, 2012, 10:41 AM

Post #24 of 24 (1132 views)
Permalink

Re: Wikimania 2013 - Request for Bids and Jury nominations [In reply to]

On 01/12/2012 07:20 PM, James Forrester wrote:
> I hope this meets with everyone's approval (OK, the majority's
> acceptance - asking for mass approval is perhaps too much!).

thanks James! No need to apologize, we are happy that someone is taking
the lead and as we all do this as volunteers we appreciate this and
accept the fact that not everything can be done immediately and after a
strict schedule.

Thanks for taking care of this.

Maybe let us have a discussion on Wikimania 2012 on a jury selection
process for the future.

/Manuel
--
Regards
Manuel Schneider

Wikimedia CH - Verein zur F�rderung Freien Wissens
Wikimedia CH - Association for the advancement of free knowledge
www.wikimedia.ch

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l [at] lists
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

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