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MediaWiki tarballs and the WMF

 

 

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mah at everybody

Jun 6, 2012, 11:11 AM

Post #1 of 11 (583 views)
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MediaWiki tarballs and the WMF

(From wikitech-l)

In the past couple of weeks I've been talking with Sam Reed (WMF's
current MediaWiki release manager) and Rob Laphiner (WMF's Platform
Engineering Director) about the future of MediaWiki tarballs.

I began this discussion after Rob expressed regret about the WMF's
ability to give tarball distribution the attention it deserves. Since
the WMF is focused on maintaining Wikipedia and its sister projects,
tarball distribution often loses among competing priorities.

The Foundation has made MediaWiki available for everyone and that's a
great thing. But Wikimedia's funding comes from donations as a result
of requests on Wikipedia, not from distribution of MediaWiki, so they
are rightly focused on their production cluster.

Other users of the MediaWiki software have different needs. For
instance, Citizendium, and Wikia and have both pegged their MediaWiki
installations at 1.16.5 for stability and made their own modifications
-- essentially forking the code. Forking is not ideal, but it is
understandable because there is no cooperation around individual
MediaWiki releases over the long term. With a third party to manage
MediaWiki releases and maintain long term support for selected releases,
cooperation between non-WMF users would be smoother.

To this start effort, I welcome interested collaborators from the
community of MediaWiki users outside of the WMF. With your help, we
will start making and maintaining MediaWiki releases based on the core
MediaWiki code without forking development.

I've been discussing this with some MediaWiki sites as well as setting
up a separate mailing list for packagers (such as Debian and RedHat
distributors) and discussing it there. So far the response has been
positive.

So now I'm asking you guys. Any interest?

--
http://hexmode.com/

Find peace within yourself and there will be peace on heaven and
earth. -- Abba Isaac

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mah at everybody

Jun 6, 2012, 11:20 AM

Post #2 of 11 (566 views)
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Re: MediaWiki tarballs and the WMF [In reply to]

On 06/06/2012 02:00 PM, Krenair wrote:
> Just to clarify, as it's not particularly clear to me - you're looking
> for people willing to test, package and release MediaWiki?
> If so, I'd be happy to learn how.

Yes. I am willing to take on the tarball maintenance if needed, but if
you are willing and able, I'll work with you to make sure we have a
working tarball creation and release process from Sam Reed.

But beyond that, we will need testers.

Speaking of testing, if anyone wants to help make sure the 1.19 release
of MediaWiki included in the next Debian package (and probably the next
Ubuntu package) is working, now is the time to test. Debian will soon
freeze their packages for their upcoming stable release.

http://packages.debian.org/experimental/mediawiki

--
http://hexmode.com/

Find peace within yourself and there will be peace on heaven and
earth. -- Abba Isaac

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dgerard at gmail

Jun 6, 2012, 11:25 AM

Post #3 of 11 (568 views)
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Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki tarballs and the WMF [In reply to]

On 6 June 2012 19:20, Mark A. Hershberger <mah [at] everybody> wrote:

> Speaking of testing, if anyone wants to help make sure the 1.19 release
> of MediaWiki included in the next Debian package (and probably the next
> Ubuntu package) is working, now is the time to test.  Debian will soon
> freeze their packages for their upcoming stable release.
> http://packages.debian.org/experimental/mediawiki


Last I recalled, the Debian MediaWiki was regarded as a pit of
gratuitous weirdness of sufficient extent that it was all but
deprecated, and any sane admin installs from the tarball. Is this
still the state of play, and if not then what improved?


- d.

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mah at everybody

Jun 6, 2012, 11:31 AM

Post #4 of 11 (563 views)
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Re: MediaWiki tarballs and the WMF [In reply to]

On 06/06/2012 02:25 PM, David Gerard wrote:

> Last I recalled, the Debian MediaWiki was regarded as a pit of
> gratuitous weirdness of sufficient extent that it was all but
> deprecated, and any sane admin installs from the tarball. Is this
> still the state of play, and if not then what improved?

I've heard this many times and, as a result, I have not tried the Debian
Package. However, many people use their system's package.

I don't know about you, but *I* don't want an awful Debian package to be
people's first experience with MediaWiki. We can improve this situation
and now is the perfect time to do that.

Mark.

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dgerard at gmail

Jun 6, 2012, 11:44 AM

Post #5 of 11 (567 views)
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Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki tarballs and the WMF [In reply to]

On 6 June 2012 19:31, Mark A. Hershberger <mah [at] everybody> wrote:
> On 06/06/2012 02:25 PM, David Gerard wrote:

>> Last I recalled, the Debian MediaWiki was regarded as a pit of
>> gratuitous weirdness of sufficient extent that it was all but
>> deprecated, and any sane admin installs from the tarball. Is this
>> still the state of play, and if not then what improved?

> I've heard this many times and, as a result, I have not tried the Debian
> Package.  However, many people use their system's package.
> I don't know about you, but *I* don't want an awful Debian package to be
> people's first experience with MediaWiki.  We can improve this situation
> and now is the perfect time to do that.


I'd *like* their package to be suitable. We use Ubuntu 10.04 at work,
and 14.04 or the corresponding Debian as of late 2014 are the hot
prospects for next refresh. So for me testing the Debian version
depends on how well the lone debs install on what's effectively an old
version ...


- d.

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jfoster81747 at verizon

Jun 7, 2012, 5:30 AM

Post #6 of 11 (555 views)
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Re: MediaWiki tarballs and the WMF [In reply to]

> So now I'm asking you guys. Any interest?

Interested yes...but I use the Debian stable to run my servers, and have
adopted the process of using the tarballs myself as there is absolutely
no reason to use a "debianized version". That being said if you want to
increase the user base then by all means allow the 'debian developers'
to repackage the tarballs as they see fit. I see no reason to do
otherwise. I do suggest setting up a website to manage this separate
from any of the mediawiki sites complete with all the tools to manage
the software source code and the process of distribution. I would gladly
assist in this.
frosty



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innocentkiller at gmail

Jun 7, 2012, 6:47 AM

Post #7 of 11 (557 views)
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Re: MediaWiki tarballs and the WMF [In reply to]

On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 8:30 AM, John W. Foster <jfoster81747 [at] verizon> wrote:
>> So now I'm asking you guys. Any interest?
>
> Interested yes...but I use the Debian stable to run my servers, and have
> adopted the process of using the tarballs myself as there is absolutely
> no reason to use a "debianized version". That being said if you want to
> increase the user base then by all means allow the 'debian developers'
> to repackage the tarballs as they see fit. I see no reason to do
> otherwise. I do suggest setting up a website to manage this separate
> from any of the mediawiki sites complete with all the tools to manage
> the software source code and the process of distribution. I would gladly
> assist in this.

Moving the distribution of MediaWiki off of mediawiki.org will just
fork the efforts in the long run, imho. I think we can accomplish the
goal of packaging without creating a new site.

-Chad

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Frank.Ralf at gmx

Jun 7, 2012, 8:37 AM

Post #8 of 11 (556 views)
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Re: MediaWiki tarballs and the WMF [In reply to]

> Moving the distribution of MediaWiki off of mediawiki.org will just
> fork the efforts in the long run, imho. I think we can accomplish the
> goal of packaging without creating a new site.

Couldn't Git(Hub) do the job?

Frank

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mah at everybody

Jun 7, 2012, 9:50 AM

Post #9 of 11 (561 views)
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Re: MediaWiki tarballs and the WMF [In reply to]

On 06/07/2012 11:37 AM, Frank Ralf wrote:
>> Moving the distribution of MediaWiki off of mediawiki.org will just
>> fork the efforts in the long run, imho. I think we can accomplish the
>> goal of packaging without creating a new site.
>
> Couldn't Git(Hub) do the job?

Sure, but there is no reason to move the work off of
gerrit.wikimedia.org. Following Chad's advice (and some discussion on
wikitech-l), I'm going to see about using a branch on Gerrit to do this
work of coordination.

Mark.


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krinklemail at gmail

Jun 7, 2012, 3:37 PM

Post #10 of 11 (555 views)
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Re: MediaWiki tarballs and the WMF [In reply to]

On Jun 7, 2012, at 6:50 PM, Mark A. Hershberger wrote:

> On 06/07/2012 11:37 AM, Frank Ralf wrote:
>>> Moving the distribution of MediaWiki off of mediawiki.org will just
>>> fork the efforts in the long run, imho. I think we can accomplish the
>>> goal of packaging without creating a new site.
>>
>> Couldn't Git(Hub) do the job?
>
> Sure, but there is no reason to move the work off of
> gerrit.wikimedia.org. Following Chad's advice (and some discussion on
> wikitech-l), I'm going to see about using a branch on Gerrit to do this
> work of coordination.
>
> Mark.
>

A branch in mediawiki-core? I'm not sure I follow.

-- Krinkle


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innocentkiller at gmail

Jun 8, 2012, 4:51 AM

Post #11 of 11 (556 views)
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Re: MediaWiki tarballs and the WMF [In reply to]

On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Krinkle <krinklemail [at] gmail> wrote:
> A branch in mediawiki-core? I'm not sure I follow.
>

Neither do I. Changes made for different distros should be done
in an agnostic way so we don't need to fork different branches.

Tools for packaging should go in the mediawiki/packages
parent repo, like we did for WPI.

-Chad

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