annew at kde
Nov 22, 2009, 2:45 AM
Post #13 of 16
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On Saturday 21 November 2009 18:59:06 Kent S. Larsen II wrote:
> Hmmm.
>
> I think you are taking this quite defensively.
>
> My principle observation is simply that currently this extension is NOT set
> up to make it easy for translating anything but interfaces. It doesn't seem
> to have anything that helps explain how it would work otherwise, and there
> are NO examples of translating anything that isn't an interface.
>
> A large part of the problem here is that the translation needs of someone
> like me are quite different from the translation needs of someone who is
> translating an interface.
>
> My only reason for commenting is that you seem to be pushing a solution
> that isn't adequate to the job described -- you seem to believe that a
> system set up for translating interfaces should be adequate for translating
> documents -- and you haven't explained how it IS adequate. Come back to me
> when you have the explanation on the web somewhere and have an example so
> that I can see how it works.
>
> I'm not really looking for a solution at this point, so yes, I only see
> problems. What I do use on my wiki (combination of proofread page and
> doublewiki extensions) and elsewhere (Google translation toolbox) is
> adequate, but not ideal. Until I see something that is better, and,
> ideally, involves the input from someone who actually does the translation
> of documents (or better for me, whole books), I can't see a reason to waste
> much time looking through something that is only presented as a solution or
> "opportunity" for those who have completely different needs than I have.
>
> Kent
>
> At 8:12 AM +0100 11/20/09, you wrote:
> >Right. So I'll give it one last shot before you go try and create your own
> >extension in the next two years. It appears to me like you are thinking in
> >problems instead of opportunities.
> >
> >Let me translate some of the remarks you made, and provide some more
> >information:
> >
> >(1) 'to set up a page to be translated, you have to not only set it up as
> > a project, but break the parts of the page into individual translateable
> > chunks': Opportunity speak: Wow. This is flexible. You can choose to put
> > translate tags around the whole page content, where a parser will break
> > it up for you, but it is also possible to keep the awkward formatting
> > away from translators, and selectively keep out that formatting from the
> > translatable content. Would there be any chance that this can be done
> > automatically? My reply: sure. We are a little short on developers, but
> > we are certainly prepared to help you further develop on the Translate
> > extension if you are interested and able to.
> >
> >(2) 'whole thing seems extremely cumbersome and inconvenient': Opportunity
> >speak: I don't understand fully how to do this. At first glance it looks
> > hard. Can you provide some additional information? My reply: sure. We'd
> > be glad to help you. Please join us on Freenode's #mediawiki-i18n and we
> > will see if we can get any misunderstandings out of the way.
> >
> >(3) 'translatewiki.net currently doesn't have ANY documents or webpage
> >projects, only software interfaces': Opportunity speak: I cannot find
> > which content pages are available for translation at the moment. Do you
> > have some links? My reply: sure. See
> >http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:PageTranslation
> >
> >(4) 'the documentation needs to be re-written to make it clear how to use
> > it'. Opportunity speak: I cannot find the documentation. Where can I find
> > it? My reply: Ouch. You got us there. Having the little development
> > resources that we have, we have always invested in adding and improving
> > functionality, and documentation is outdated at best. On mediawiki.org it
> > is not present. We would appeaciate help in that area. Also see (2).
> >
> >Cheers!
> >
> >Siebrand Mazeland
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: mediawiki-l-bounces [at] lists
> >[mailto:mediawiki-l-bounces [at] lists] On Behalf Of Kent S.
> > Larsen II
> >Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 4:22 AM
> >To: MediaWiki announcements and site admin list
> >Subject: Re: [Mediawiki-l] Translating wiki articles
> >
> >
> >Yes, I checked out the link.
> >
> >As far as I can tell, in order to set up a page to be translated, you have
> >to not only set it up as a project, but break the parts of the page into
> >individual translateable chunks.
> >
> >The whole thing seems extremely cumbersome and inconvenient -- it really
> > is set up to be used for translating a software interface and not actual
> > documents.
> >
> >As far as I can tell, translatewiki.net currently doesn't have ANY
> >documents or webpage projects, only software interfaces.
> >
> >If I'm wrong about this, then the documentation needs to be re-written to
> >make it clear how to use it.
> >
That is probably correct - it's hard to keep documentation up to date.
However -
As I said at the beginning of this thread, we are testing this extension on a
sandbox wiki. We have involved a few translators from different backgrounds.
With the minimum of instruction they have played with a sample page or two.
There has been some feedback - things that they would like changing, but I'm
told that nothing they have said is difficult to set up (I am not a php
person, I have to leave that part to others).
I cannot understand why you think that the extension doesn't work with wiki
pages. And for those with other translation needs, exporting a .po file seems
to be very useful to them.
Perhaps you need to explain exactly what it is that you want, that the
extension can't do. If you have misunderstood, then someone will be able to
help you. If it really can't do it, then it will be possible to discuss
whether it should be able to, or whether that's a different problem.
Anne
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