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Ombudsman Commission: Verification of checkuser results

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cartmanau at gmail

Jul 2, 2007, 2:22 AM

Post #1 of 13 (489 views)
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Ombudsman Commission: Verification of checkuser results

Hi,
As most of you should be aware I am currently a member of the Ombudsman
Commission (see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission)

One of my current complaints involves a user who disputes the results of a
CU, as I do not have checkuser access on enwiki how would I go about
verifying the results?
Regards,
Nathan Carter (Cartman02au)
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dmcdevit at cox

Jul 2, 2007, 3:25 AM

Post #2 of 13 (470 views)
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Re: Ombudsman Commission: Verification of checkuser results [In reply to]

Nathan Carter wrote:
> Hi,
> As most of you should be aware I am currently a member of the Ombudsman
> Commission (see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission)
>
> One of my current complaints involves a user who disputes the results of a
> CU, as I do not have checkuser access on enwiki how would I go about
> verifying the results?
> Regards,
> Nathan Carter (Cartman02au)
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
I doubt most people are aware that that commission exists, actually,
but, as a checkuser myself, I would ask you 1) Why you are going about
verifying disputed results? The Ombudsman Commission exists to
investigate *privacy violations,* not as oversight on interpretation of
checkuser results for a project with 17 local checkusers, any of which
can double check a disputed result if need be. Has there been a privacy
violation? 2) The Ombudsman Commission has an en.wp checkuser as one of
its members. Why are you asking here instead of asking him? 3) If it is
the case that you are investigating a disputed result, which strikes me
as odd, is there some special cause for concern? Have you talked to the
checkuser involved yet?

Dominic

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teun.spaans at gmail

Jul 2, 2007, 3:58 AM

Post #3 of 13 (469 views)
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Re: Ombudsman Commission: Verification of checkuser results [In reply to]

ask the details and motivation from the person who did the cu?
ask the details from another cu authorized person?

On 7/2/07, Nathan Carter <cartmanau [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> As most of you should be aware I am currently a member of the Ombudsman
> Commission (see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission)
>
> One of my current complaints involves a user who disputes the results of a
> CU, as I do not have checkuser access on enwiki how would I go about
> verifying the results?
> Regards,
> Nathan Carter (Cartman02au)
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
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newyorkbrad at gmail

Jul 2, 2007, 9:00 AM

Post #4 of 13 (470 views)
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Re: Ombudsman Commission: Verification of checkuser results [In reply to]

Is it intentional that this thread is going to the entire Foundation mailing
list, or was it inadverently sent to the wrong list?

Newyorkbrad

On 7/2/07, teun spaans <teun.spaans [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> ask the details and motivation from the person who did the cu?
> ask the details from another cu authorized person?
>
>
> On 7/2/07, Nathan Carter <cartmanau [at] gmail> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > As most of you should be aware I am currently a member of the Ombudsman
> > Commission (see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission)
> >
> > One of my current complaints involves a user who disputes the results of
> a
> > CU, as I do not have checkuser access on enwiki how would I go about
> > verifying the results?
> > Regards,
> > Nathan Carter (Cartman02au)
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l [at] lists
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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aphaia at gmail

Jul 2, 2007, 9:49 AM

Post #5 of 13 (473 views)
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Re: Ombudsman Commission: Verification of checkuser results [In reply to]

I think it is within the topic, since Ombudsmen are appointed by the
Board, thus the by the Foundation iirc.

On 7/3/07, Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia) <newyorkbrad [at] gmail> wrote:
> Is it intentional that this thread is going to the entire Foundation mailing
> list, or was it inadverently sent to the wrong list?
>
> Newyorkbrad
>
>
> On 7/2/07, teun spaans <teun.spaans [at] gmail> wrote:
> >
> > ask the details and motivation from the person who did the cu?
> > ask the details from another cu authorized person?
> >
> >
> > On 7/2/07, Nathan Carter <cartmanau [at] gmail> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > > As most of you should be aware I am currently a member of the Ombudsman
> > > Commission (see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission)
> > >
> > > One of my current complaints involves a user who disputes the results of
> > a
> > > CU, as I do not have checkuser access on enwiki how would I go about
> > > verifying the results?
> > > Regards,
> > > Nathan Carter (Cartman02au)
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > foundation-l [at] lists
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l [at] lists
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

--
KIZU Naoko
Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
* habent enim emolumentum in labore suo *

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dmcdevit at cox

Jul 2, 2007, 11:53 AM

Post #6 of 13 (474 views)
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Re: Ombudsman Commission: Verification of checkuser results [In reply to]

Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia) wrote:
> Is it intentional that this thread is going to the entire Foundation mailing
> list, or was it inadverently sent to the wrong list?
>
> Newyorkbrad
I wonder also why it is not at checkuser-l, where all English Wikipedia
checkusers are subscribed, and where we could perhaps discuss details
more freely.

Dominic

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wegge at wegge

Jul 2, 2007, 1:58 PM

Post #7 of 13 (472 views)
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Re: Ombudsman Commission: Verification of checkuser results [In reply to]

Dmcdevit <dmcdevit [at] cox> writes:

> Nathan Carter wrote:
> > Hi,
> > As most of you should be aware I am currently a member of the Ombudsman
> > Commission (see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission)
> >
> > One of my current complaints involves a user who disputes the results of a
> > CU, as I do not have checkuser access on enwiki how would I go about
> > verifying the results?
> > Regards,
> > Nathan Carter (Cartman02au)
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l [at] lists
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> >
> I doubt most people are aware that that commission exists, actually,
> but, as a checkuser myself, I would ask you 1) Why you are going about
> verifying disputed results?

Quoting
<http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Ombudsperson_checkuser>:

"The ombudsman will take charge of investigating cases of privacy
policy breach *or checkuser abuse* for the board in an official
manner." (My emphasis)

There are more issues than just privacy issues at stake.
--
// Wegge
<http://geowiki.wegge.dk/wiki/Forside> - Alt om geocaching
Bruger du den gratis spamfighther ser jeg kun dine indlæg *EN* gang.

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dmcdevit at cox

Jul 2, 2007, 2:39 PM

Post #8 of 13 (474 views)
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Re: Ombudsman Commission: Verification of checkuser results [In reply to]

Anders Wegge Jakobsen wrote:
>
> Quoting
> <http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Ombudsperson_checkuser>:
>
> "The ombudsman will take charge of investigating cases of privacy
> policy breach *or checkuser abuse* for the board in an official
> manner." (My emphasis)
>
> There are more issues than just privacy issues at stake.
>
I think you are misreading that if you think it extends to
double-checking disputed checkuser interpretations when no privacy
violation is alleged, on a project with more than a dozen native
checkusers fully capable of doing that themselves. Someone from the
Board can correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea is that the Commission
investigates privacy violations (in general) by anyone--presumably
stewards, oversight users, developers, OTRS volunteers, arbitrators, or
anyone else who may have privileged information-- and, (specifically)
abuses of checkuser related to privacy violations. This is clear if you
read the whole document, which solely concerns itself with the privacy
policy, and is intended to resolve "complaints related to abuse of its
privacy policy, associated to checkuser activity or not."

Has the Ombudsman commission always been taking these sorts of
complaints in the last year, instead of directing them to the local
community? I am still confused as to why, if so, the en.wp checkuser on
the Commission cannot give you the information you need.

Dominic

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cartmanau at gmail

Jul 2, 2007, 3:19 PM

Post #9 of 13 (470 views)
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Re: Ombudsman Commission: Verification of checkuser results [In reply to]

On 7/2/07, Dmcdevit <dmcdevit [at] cox> wrote:
>
>
>
> I doubt most people are aware that that commission exists, actually but,
> as a checkuser myself, I would ask you 1) Why you are going about
> verifying disputed results? The Ombudsman Commission exists to
> investigate *privacy violations,* not as oversight on interpretation of
> checkuser results for a project with 17 local checkusers, any of which
> can double check a disputed result if need be. Has there been a privacy
> violation?

There has been a *possible* privacy violation. The Ombudsman Commission
according to meta can investigate "cases of such policy breach or CheckUser
abuse for the board in an official manner". Pretty much, I need to know why
the IP of a user was published without their consent. One has been editing
anonymously while another hasn't.

2) The Ombudsman Commission has an en.wp checkuser as one of
> its members. Why are you asking here instead of asking him?

Because the user you are referring to has not replied.

3) If it is
> the case that you are investigating a disputed result, which strikes me
> as odd, is there some special cause for concern? Have you talked to the
> checkuser involved yet?

Of course I have, as I have in the past.
Cheers,
Nathan Carter.
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cartmanau at gmail

Jul 2, 2007, 3:21 PM

Post #10 of 13 (469 views)
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Re: Ombudsman Commission: Verification of checkuser results [In reply to]

On 7/3/07, Aphaia <aphaia [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> I think it is within the topic, since Ombudsmen are appointed by the
> Board, thus the by the Foundation iirc.

The intention was to get the advice of interested parties.
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cartmanau at gmail

Jul 2, 2007, 3:25 PM

Post #11 of 13 (473 views)
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Re: Ombudsman Commission: Verification of checkuser results [In reply to]

On 7/3/07, Dmcdevit <dmcdevit [at] cox> wrote:
>
>
> Has the Ombudsman commission always been taking these sorts of
> complaints in the last year, instead of directing them to the local
> community? I am still confused as to why, if so, the en.wp checkuser on
> the Commission cannot give you the information you need.

Your opposition to the Ombudsman Commission is duly noted.
No it has not. In this case there are special circumstances which warrant
verification.
Regards,
Nathan Carter.
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dmcdevit at cox

Jul 2, 2007, 3:39 PM

Post #12 of 13 (475 views)
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Re: Ombudsman Commission: Verification of checkuser results [In reply to]

Nathan Carter wrote:
> There has been a *possible* privacy violation. The Ombudsman Commission
> according to meta can investigate "cases of such policy breach or CheckUser
> abuse for the board in an official manner". Pretty much, I need to know why
> the IP of a user was published without their consent. One has been editing
> anonymously while another hasn't.
>
Sensitive information cannot be discussed here though. Why not take this
to the checkuser mailing list, or find an English Wikipedia checkuser
who you can confer with privately? This isn't accomplishing anything.
>> the case that you are investigating a disputed result, which strikes me
>> as odd, is there some special cause for concern? Have you talked to the
>> checkuser involved yet?
>>
>
> Of course I have, as I have in the past.
I think you will find that that has not been the experience of all
subjects of your investigations.

Dominic

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cartmanau at gmail

Jul 2, 2007, 5:54 PM

Post #13 of 13 (468 views)
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Re: Ombudsman Commission: Verification of checkuser results [In reply to]

On 7/3/07, Dmcdevit <dmcdevit [at] cox> wrote:
>
> Nathan Carter wrote:
> > There has been a *possible* privacy violation. The Ombudsman Commission
> > according to meta can investigate "cases of such policy breach or
> CheckUser
> > abuse for the board in an official manner". Pretty much, I need to know
> why
> > the IP of a user was published without their consent. One has been
> editing
> > anonymously while another hasn't.
> >
> Sensitive information cannot be discussed here though. Why not take this
> to the checkuser mailing list, or find an English Wikipedia checkuser
> who you can confer with privately? This isn't accomplishing anything.

No details have been given. I was seeking advice from members of the board
and the community at large.
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