Mailing List Archive: Wikipedia: Foundation

Wikimedia logo policy

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ultrablue at gmail

Jan 6, 2006, 7:25 PM

Post #1 of 12 (1126 views)
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Wikimedia logo policy

Notafish (Delphine) has told me on my talk page that the 3D masthead I
made for my redesign of the www.wikimedia.org portal (which
incorporates the Wikimedia Foundation logo) violates a
newly-publicised Wikimedia Foundation policy about the use of the
Wikimedia logo.

Delphine also tells me that the file should also be deleted from the
Commons as well. Apparently the policy this image violates is that no
derivative of the logo may be used without the prior approval of the
Foundation.

Is there any chance the Board would approve my derivative of the logo?
The masthead in question is located at:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Foundation_3D.png

and the logo policy that was made public after my logo had been on the
portal for several days is:

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_visual_identity_guidelines

Forgive me for being a cynic, but was that policy made public solely
as a result of my logo derivative, in order to have it removed from
the portal? Apparently that policy had been on some "Internal Wiki"
for quite some time beforehand. If someone didn't like the logo
derivative I made then they could have just told me.

~Mark Ryan
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Anthere9 at yahoo

Jan 7, 2006, 7:17 AM

Post #2 of 12 (1067 views)
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Re: Wikimedia logo policy [In reply to]

Mark Ryan wrote:

Hi Mark

I already explained a bit more to Mark on irc, but to clarify...

> Notafish (Delphine) has told me on my talk page that the 3D masthead I
> made for my redesign of the www.wikimedia.org portal (which
> incorporates the Wikimedia Foundation logo) violates a
> newly-publicised Wikimedia Foundation policy about the use of the
> Wikimedia logo.

> Delphine also tells me that the file should also be deleted from the
> Commons as well. Apparently the policy this image violates is that no
> derivative of the logo may be used without the prior approval of the
> Foundation.

There is an unclear sentence on the guidelines page. It seems to imply
that no derivative will be accepted. While indeed, the reality is that
some derivative exist, but should be approved prior to their use. And
certainly prior to their upload on commons, since these are cp logos.

> Is there any chance the Board would approve my derivative of the logo?
> The masthead in question is located at:
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Foundation_3D.png

I have no problem with the logo per se, but have a problem with the
place you intend to use it. This page is the wikimedia portal, and
there, should stand only the official logo. Not a derivative imho.

> and the logo policy that was made public after my logo had been on the
> portal for several days is:
>
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_visual_identity_guidelines
>
> Forgive me for being a cynic, but was that policy made public solely
> as a result of my logo derivative, in order to have it removed from
> the portal? Apparently that policy had been on some "Internal Wiki"
> for quite some time beforehand. If someone didn't like the logo
> derivative I made then they could have just told me.

The guidelines have been made about 2 months ago.
We were slow in publishing them :-)
I think noone informed you, because no one realised :-)

> ~Mark Ryan

cheers

Ant

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beesley at gmail

Jan 7, 2006, 10:01 AM

Post #3 of 12 (1064 views)
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Re: Wikimedia logo policy [In reply to]

I agree with Anthere's responses to the other part of your mail, so
I'll just respond to this part:
> Is there any chance the Board would approve my derivative of the logo?

I'd suggest the logo not be hastily deleted since there are dozens of
derivatives and it might set a precedent for deleting those. The
visual guidelines policy is not the same as the policy which says how
derivative logos are to be handled - we don't yet have a policy for
that. Some initial examples are at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Uses_of_logo_derivatives but it's not
moved much beyond this stage yet. Until we have a policy, we can not
approve your logo, but I would rather it be kept for discussion than
deleted at this stage.

Angela.
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jwales at wikia

Jan 7, 2006, 3:32 PM

Post #4 of 12 (1064 views)
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Re: Wikimedia logo policy [In reply to]

Mark Ryan wrote:
> Forgive me for being a cynic, but was that policy made public solely
> as a result of my logo derivative, in order to have it removed from
> the portal?

Oh no no no no! It was in the works for a long time, and I'm very sorry
the timing made it appear this way. To my knowledge anyway, no one
really connected this in any way to any work that you're doing.

Apparently that policy had been on some "Internal Wiki"
> for quite some time beforehand. If someone didn't like the logo
> derivative I made then they could have just told me.
>
> ~Mark Ryan
>

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walter at wikizine

Jan 7, 2006, 3:44 PM

Post #5 of 12 (1076 views)
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Re: Wikimedia logo policy [In reply to]

I have also a question/problem;

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_visual_identity_guidelines#Logo_usage

"The logo should not be turned around or distorted"

That is what I am doing here;
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/announce-l

It gives a (poor) 3D effect. Like the Wikimedia family-logo is a carpet
and the Wikizine name is hovering above it. That is a good visual
representation what Wikizine trys to be; about the Wikimedia projects
but not a Wikimedia project.

I like it. Can I have permission to keep this so please?

Greetings,
Walter
--
Contact: walter AT wikizine DOT org
Wikizine.org - news for and about the Wikimedia community

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notafishz at gmail

Jan 7, 2006, 6:44 PM

Post #6 of 12 (1064 views)
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Re: Re: Wikimedia logo policy [In reply to]

On 1/7/06, Anthere <Anthere9 [at] yahoo> wrote:

> There is an unclear sentence on the guidelines page. It seems to imply
> that no derivative will be accepted. While indeed, the reality is that
> some derivative exist, but should be approved prior to their use. And
> certainly prior to their upload on commons, since these are cp logos.

I changed it to:
"Note that no derivative of the Wikimedia logo can be published
without prior approval from the Foundation."

Cheers,

Delphine
--
~notafish
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ultrablue at gmail

Jan 7, 2006, 10:59 PM

Post #7 of 12 (1063 views)
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Re: Wikimedia logo policy [In reply to]

On 08/01/06, Jimmy Wales <jwales [at] wikia> wrote:
> Oh no no no no! It was in the works for a long time, and I'm very sorry
> the timing made it appear this way. To my knowledge anyway, no one
> really connected this in any way to any work that you're doing.

I am just a conspiracy theorist at heart :) I'm glad there are
guidelines now on the logo use; someone's put a lot of effort into
them and (in my opinion) they have been sorely needed.

Just one question: what is the position regarding derivatives of the
project logos? Does this policy apply to them too?

~Mark Ryan
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Anthere9 at yahoo

Jan 7, 2006, 11:16 PM

Post #8 of 12 (1073 views)
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Re: Wikimedia logo policy [In reply to]

Delphine M�nard wrote:
> On 1/7/06, Anthere <Anthere9 [at] yahoo> wrote:
>
>
>>There is an unclear sentence on the guidelines page. It seems to imply
>>that no derivative will be accepted. While indeed, the reality is that
>>some derivative exist, but should be approved prior to their use. And
>>certainly prior to their upload on commons, since these are cp logos.
>
>
> I changed it to:
> "Note that no derivative of the Wikimedia logo can be published
> without prior approval from the Foundation."
>
> Cheers,
>
> Delphine
> --
> ~notafish

Perfect to me Delphine :-)

ant

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beesley at gmail

Jan 8, 2006, 3:54 AM

Post #9 of 12 (1066 views)
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Re: Wikimedia logo policy [In reply to]

> Just one question: what is the position regarding derivatives of the
> project logos? Does this policy apply to them too?

Yes, the idea is to extend the policy to cover all the logos. That
might not have been done just yet, but there's no reason I know of
that the same wording wouldn't apply.

Angela
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smoddy at gmail

Jan 8, 2006, 4:09 AM

Post #10 of 12 (1068 views)
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Re: Re: Wikimedia logo policy [In reply to]

On 1/8/06, Angela <beesley [at] gmail> wrote:
> Yes, the idea is to extend the policy to cover all the logos. That
> might not have been done just yet, but there's no reason I know of
> that the same wording wouldn't apply.

Does the Board want projects to engage in some kind of cleanup
operation? If so, should the images be speedily deleted? Or should
we wait for another announcement?

--
Sam
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beesley at gmail

Jan 8, 2006, 4:40 AM

Post #11 of 12 (1075 views)
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Re: Re: Wikimedia logo policy [In reply to]

On 1/8/06, Sam Korn <smoddy [at] gmail> wrote:

> Does the Board want projects to engage in some kind of cleanup
> operation? If so, should the images be speedily deleted? Or should
> we wait for another announcement?

I'd suggest waiting. There's no need to be too hasty to irreversibly
delete images. Let's work out the policy on derivatives first.

Angela
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alexander.sigachov at gmail

Jan 8, 2006, 4:42 AM

Post #12 of 12 (1073 views)
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Re: Re: Wikimedia logo policy [In reply to]

Also we need project name policy.

It's easy with "Wikipedia". "Encyclopedia" is an international word in
the vast majority of modern languages, but we have project name in
different alphabet.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Final_logo_variants/Nohat#Version_X

It's quite another matter with WikiSource. Word "Source" is not easy
to translate. So, example, en Russian, we have "��" (WikiThek)
that literally means "WikiLibrary". In Hebrew it's "WikiText"
See http://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Project_namespaces

--
Alexander Sigachov

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