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romaine_wiki at yahoo

Aug 24, 2013, 3:21 PM

Post #1 of 19 (1009 views)
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[Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives

Google is throwing the Wikipedia layer out of Google Maps under the guise of "improvement", while it actually sets several steps back in time. It is like going to the Middle Ages instead of the future. It shows that commercial companies do not make decisions by looking what people like, need and want, but let the end users down. In the past such changes in software always was a moment for me to consider if there are alternatives and if possible to switch over to them.

Considering this for finding a Wikipedia layer on maps, I do not know any. But I do know there is an open source alternative, just like Wikipedia, but then for maps, OpenStreetMap.

We already work together in some way, we use the maps of OpenStreetMap in our Toolserver maps when we click on the coordinates on articles.

Unfortunately I couldn't find any layer for Wikipedia on http://openstreetmap.org

I think it would be good if we as Wikimedia would broaden our use of and connections with OpenStreetMap and let both communities work together more.

(It is unlikely to happen I think, but OpenStreetMap would be perfectly under the wing of WMF, just as Wikivoyage.)

We should strive on working together with OpenStreetMap, we supplement each other.


Romaine

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strainu10 at gmail

Aug 24, 2013, 3:31 PM

Post #2 of 19 (994 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

2013/8/25 Romaine Wiki <romaine_wiki [at] yahoo>:
> Google is throwing the Wikipedia layer out of Google Maps under the guise of "improvement", while it actually sets several steps back in time. It is like going to the Middle Ages instead of the future.

I wouldn't go *that* far. Opportunities come and go, and so are
reusers of our content. This is not such a big deal for Wikipedia, I
believe.

> It shows that commercial companies do not make decisions by looking what people like, need and want, but let the end users down. In the past such changes in software always was a moment for me to consider if there are alternatives and if possible to switch over to them.

>
> Considering this for finding a Wikipedia layer on maps, I do not know any. But I do know there is an open source alternative, just like Wikipedia, but then for maps, OpenStreetMap.
>
> We already work together in some way, we use the maps of OpenStreetMap in our Toolserver maps when we click on the coordinates on articles.
>
> Unfortunately I couldn't find any layer for Wikipedia on http://openstreetmap.org

Perhaps the WMF should provide that? Kolossos has done a tremendous
job with his work on the subject. Moving from the toolserver to the
labs could be a good moment to increase the resource allocated to that
project.

I think OSM would be happy with the idea. One of their layers (the
transport map) is already provided by a third party AFAIK.

>
> I think it would be good if we as Wikimedia would broaden our use of and connections with OpenStreetMap and let both communities work together more.
>
> (It is unlikely to happen I think, but OpenStreetMap would be perfectly under the wing of WMF, just as Wikivoyage.)

No it wouldn't. The OSM Foundation has proven in many ways superior to
the WMF (consider only the way licence change was approached on their
and and on the WMF wikis...). Perhaps some of this image is due to
cultural differences between Europe and the US (me being biased
towards the European model), but I don't think so.

Also, compared to Wikivoyage, OSM has far superior visibility.

>
> We should strive on working together with OpenStreetMap, we supplement each other.

Have a nice weekend,
Strainu

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usermono at outlook

Aug 24, 2013, 3:40 PM

Post #3 of 19 (995 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

Do you have a specific article that talks about this? Do remember the new Google Maps is still in beta. It's (still) impossible to use on older computers because it is so slow and laggy - it's possible the WMF could lobby them to keep it around.
Mono

> From: strainu10 [at] gmail
> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 01:31:51 +0300
> To: wikimedia-l [at] lists
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives
>
> 2013/8/25 Romaine Wiki <romaine_wiki [at] yahoo>:
> > Google is throwing the Wikipedia layer out of Google Maps under the guise of "improvement", while it actually sets several steps back in time. It is like going to the Middle Ages instead of the future.
>
> I wouldn't go *that* far. Opportunities come and go, and so are
> reusers of our content. This is not such a big deal for Wikipedia, I
> believe.
>
> > It shows that commercial companies do not make decisions by looking what people like, need and want, but let the end users down. In the past such changes in software always was a moment for me to consider if there are alternatives and if possible to switch over to them.
>
> >
> > Considering this for finding a Wikipedia layer on maps, I do not know any. But I do know there is an open source alternative, just like Wikipedia, but then for maps, OpenStreetMap.
> >
> > We already work together in some way, we use the maps of OpenStreetMap in our Toolserver maps when we click on the coordinates on articles.
> >
> > Unfortunately I couldn't find any layer for Wikipedia on http://openstreetmap.org
>
> Perhaps the WMF should provide that? Kolossos has done a tremendous
> job with his work on the subject. Moving from the toolserver to the
> labs could be a good moment to increase the resource allocated to that
> project.
>
> I think OSM would be happy with the idea. One of their layers (the
> transport map) is already provided by a third party AFAIK.
>
> >
> > I think it would be good if we as Wikimedia would broaden our use of and connections with OpenStreetMap and let both communities work together more.
> >
> > (It is unlikely to happen I think, but OpenStreetMap would be perfectly under the wing of WMF, just as Wikivoyage.)
>
> No it wouldn't. The OSM Foundation has proven in many ways superior to
> the WMF (consider only the way licence change was approached on their
> and and on the WMF wikis...). Perhaps some of this image is due to
> cultural differences between Europe and the US (me being biased
> towards the European model), but I don't think so.
>
> Also, compared to Wikivoyage, OSM has far superior visibility.
>
> >
> > We should strive on working together with OpenStreetMap, we supplement each other.
>
> Have a nice weekend,
> Strainu
>
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thehelpfulonewiki at gmail

Aug 24, 2013, 3:56 PM

Post #4 of 19 (994 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

On 24 August 2013 23:40, User Mono <usermono [at] outlook> wrote:

> Do you have a specific article that talks about this? Do remember the new
> Google Maps is still in beta. It's (still) impossible to use on older
> computers because it is so slow and laggy - it's possible the WMF could
> lobby them to keep it around.
> Mono
>

+1 - as far as I know it doesn't even allow you to go via anywhere yet -
it's just a simple A to B.


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polimerek at gmail

Aug 24, 2013, 3:58 PM

Post #5 of 19 (996 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

http://openstreetmap.org - is just a starting point to OSM - it has no
layers at all. OSM in general is a database with various map data. You
can render this data as you wish. On http://www.openstreetmap.org you
have several renders which you can switch - the basic one is called
mapnik. You cannot render everything as the map would be difficuilt to
read. Among others there is a key in OSM data schema which let you
link the objects (points, roads and areas) to the relevant Wikipedia
articiles.

See: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:wikipedia

Many OSM mappers actually add this key to many objects.
http://openstreetmap.org does not show this key just because it is
minor, extra thing for a general-purpose map, but you can create your
own render and use it on your own website and many websites are
actually using OSM data in various ways. See:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM_based_Services

Actually we are doing this - see: OSM extention for MediaWiki and
MiniWikiAtlas. There is even a project page on OSM wiki regarding
cooperation with Wikipedia:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Collaboration_with_Wikipedia

Read it - and if you have any good ideas - just tell the people - or
better - try to implement it ;-)



2013/8/25 Romaine Wiki <romaine_wiki [at] yahoo>:
> Google is throwing the Wikipedia layer out of Google Maps under the guise of "improvement", while it actually sets several steps back in time. It is like going to the Middle Ages instead of the future. It shows that commercial companies do not make decisions by looking what people like, need and want, but let the end users down. In the past such changes in software always was a moment for me to consider if there are alternatives and if possible to switch over to them.
>
> Considering this for finding a Wikipedia layer on maps, I do not know any. But I do know there is an open source alternative, just like Wikipedia, but then for maps, OpenStreetMap.
>
> We already work together in some way, we use the maps of OpenStreetMap in our Toolserver maps when we click on the coordinates on articles.
>
> Unfortunately I couldn't find any layer for Wikipedia on http://openstreetmap.org
>
> I think it would be good if we as Wikimedia would broaden our use of and connections with OpenStreetMap and let both communities work together more.
>
> (It is unlikely to happen I think, but OpenStreetMap would be perfectly under the wing of WMF, just as Wikivoyage.)
>
> We should strive on working together with OpenStreetMap, we supplement each other.
>
>
> Romaine
>
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http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
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romaine_wiki at yahoo

Aug 24, 2013, 5:24 PM

Post #6 of 19 (988 views)
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[Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

Also the old Google Maps doesn't show the Wikipedia layer any longer.


> Do you have a specific article that talks about this? Do remember the new Google Maps is still in beta. It's (still) impossible to use on older computers because it is so slow and laggy - it's possible the WMF could lobby them to keep it around.
> Mono

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grinapo at gmail

Aug 25, 2013, 2:07 AM

Post #7 of 19 (979 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

Hello,

Apart from the politics side and the end-of-the-world aspects there
are good points raised.

Right now there are some services based on the google map, mainly the
map itself, panoramio which puts images on map, routing engine
calculates directions, and several other layers exists on the map.

There is open content map: OSM. Image collections with geoinformation
exists, like Commons. Routing exists like YOURS, or graphhopper.
Geocoded wikipedia articles exist, and possibly several open geocoded
contents as well.

There is a point to bring these together and WMF have the resources
(both monetary and hardware-wise) to make it done. All the open-source
tools exist, WMF have the resources to host a tile server (or better
yet a vector tile server), we already host Commons, so it's well
possible to provide such a community-based resource.

Possibly the largest task would be to make an exceptionally good and
future-proof plan of all of these. Google made it wise, they are
pretty modular so they can insert new services easily. We can do that,
we are more numerous. ;-) With a good API it's possible to get
together something like goog earth where people can use provided
layers as well as insert new ones for themselves form the
layer-collections.

I personally would like to see geocoded commons images to appear on a
map to be able to use it instead of panoramio (even if I see the vast
problems with commons and the assurance of free and useful images;
it's hard to say how useful is an image of a field, hill or some
streets).

IMHO.

--
byte-byte,
grin

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polimerek at gmail

Aug 25, 2013, 2:58 AM

Post #8 of 19 (975 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

Bear in mind that OSM is a community such as we are, with its own
habits and ideas. The idea of OSM is to have everything in one databse
which structure is very open. You can actually put there almost
everything which can be connected with the points, lines or areas and
exist on our mother Earth. See:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features

You can also propose a new features to be added to the official OSM
database schema. It is disussed by OSM community in similar way as a
new ideas in Wikipedia.

OSM has actually its own API which is free to use:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6

It can be used both for creating new tools for editing of OSM as we as
creating new functionalities based on OSM data.



2013/8/25 Peter Gervai <grinapo [at] gmail>:
> Hello,
>
> Apart from the politics side and the end-of-the-world aspects there
> are good points raised.
>
> Right now there are some services based on the google map, mainly the
> map itself, panoramio which puts images on map, routing engine
> calculates directions, and several other layers exists on the map.
>
> There is open content map: OSM. Image collections with geoinformation
> exists, like Commons. Routing exists like YOURS, or graphhopper.
> Geocoded wikipedia articles exist, and possibly several open geocoded
> contents as well.
>
> There is a point to bring these together and WMF have the resources
> (both monetary and hardware-wise) to make it done. All the open-source
> tools exist, WMF have the resources to host a tile server (or better
> yet a vector tile server), we already host Commons, so it's well
> possible to provide such a community-based resource.
>
> Possibly the largest task would be to make an exceptionally good and
> future-proof plan of all of these. Google made it wise, they are
> pretty modular so they can insert new services easily. We can do that,
> we are more numerous. ;-) With a good API it's possible to get
> together something like goog earth where people can use provided
> layers as well as insert new ones for themselves form the
> layer-collections.
>
> I personally would like to see geocoded commons images to appear on a
> map to be able to use it instead of panoramio (even if I see the vast
> problems with commons and the assurance of free and useful images;
> it's hard to say how useful is an image of a field, hill or some
> streets).
>
> IMHO.
>
> --
> byte-byte,
> grin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request [at] lists?subject=unsubscribe>



--
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http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
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andy at pigsonthewing

Aug 25, 2013, 10:39 AM

Post #9 of 19 (971 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

On 24 August 2013 23:21, Romaine Wiki <romaine_wiki [at] yahoo> wrote:

> Google is throwing the Wikipedia layer out of Google Maps under the guise of "improvement"

If true, that's very sad. I was involved in liason with Google to get
that set up to use {{Coord}}, some years ago, and people I've showed
it to have always found it useful. The problem is, Google kept it
hidden away, so I wouldn't be surprised if stats showed that people
didn't use it much - at least not as much as they might have done.

> Considering this for finding a Wikipedia layer on maps, I do not know any. But I do know there is an open source alternative, just like Wikipedia, but then for maps, OpenStreetMap.

OSM won't do something like that, but invite others (which might be
WMF or our community) to use their data to create such services.

In fact, Kolossos has done so:

http://toolserver.org/~kolossos/openlayers/kml-on-ol.php?lat=51.52214&lon=-0.06012&zoom=10&lang=de&layers=B00TT

but that seems to be using an out-of-date or otherwise in complete
data set - even so, switch (under "Optionen") to English (for greatest
coverage) or your language of choice.


Incidentally, when mapping on OSM, it's always a good idea to include
a Wikipedia (or Wikidata) link for eligible objects.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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putevod at mccme

Aug 25, 2013, 12:59 PM

Post #10 of 19 (971 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

On 25.08.2013 11:58, Tomasz Ganicz wrote:
> Bear in mind that OSM is a community such as we are, with its own
> habits and ideas. The idea of OSM is to have everything in one databse
> which structure is very open. You can actually put there almost
> everything which can be connected with the points, lines or areas and
> exist on our mother Earth. See:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features
>
> You can also propose a new features to be added to the official OSM
> database schema. It is disussed by OSM community in similar way as a
> new ideas in Wikipedia.
>
> OSM has actually its own API which is free to use:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6
>
> It can be used both for creating new tools for editing of OSM as we as
> creating new functionalities based on OSM data.
>
>
>

Allow me a stupid question on this thread, but why is the existing
OSM-based solution employed by several language versions of Wikivoyage
not good enough?

Cheers
Yaroslav

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grinapo at gmail

Aug 25, 2013, 1:45 PM

Post #11 of 19 (971 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek [at] gmail> wrote:

> Bear in mind that OSM is a community such as we are, with its own
> habits and ideas.

As I happen to be one of the more active ones in Hungary. :-)

> The idea of OSM is to have everything in one databse

Nope. You will not see there wikipedia articles or photos. ;-) What
you may see are pointers to external resources, but many of these
resources doesn't exist (like something similar to panoramio which
hosts geocoded images in vast amounts).

> You can also propose a new features to be added to the official OSM
> database schema.

It is not a question of OSM database, it's a question of services
based on the database, especially those related to slippy map with
mapped external content. OSMF doesn't have the resources to get this
done, and they even struggle under the load of their tile server being
used by the general public. In fact you're advised against using their
tile server and you are advised to create one for your own. For
example this is one point where WMF _may_ be able to help, but it's a
high demand service.

> OSM has actually its own API which is free to use:

I do not think Wikipedia should get deeply involved in _editing_ the
db and firing shitloads of queries at the API will surely help
Wikipedia getting banned from using it. ;-)
Whatever we do it should be based on the minute diffs and our own processing.
But really I do not talk about the db, I talk about it's
representation (tiles) and it's interface (slippy map with additional
geocoded layers).

g

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andy at pigsonthewing

Aug 25, 2013, 3:33 PM

Post #12 of 19 (968 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

On 25 August 2013 21:45, Peter Gervai <grinapo [at] gmail> wrote:

> this is one point where WMF _may_ be able to help,

We already have Special:Nearby
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Nearby> It shouldn't be a
great leap to make (the back end of) that page emit a KML file (it's a
list of geocoded articles, after all) and pass them to Google., or
indeed another KML-compatible service.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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andy at pigsonthewing

Aug 25, 2013, 3:45 PM

Post #13 of 19 (969 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

On 25 August 2013 23:33, Andy Mabbett <andy [at] pigsonthewing> wrote:
>> this is one point where WMF _may_ be able to help,
>
> We already have Special:Nearby

I've started a discussion on en.Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Nearby_.26_replacing_Google_Maps.27_Wikipedia_layer

Please feel free to point to it from a suitable page on Meta, or elsewhere

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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romaine_wiki at yahoo

Aug 26, 2013, 12:55 AM

Post #14 of 19 (965 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

"The new Google Maps simplified navigation and removed many useful features... Layers like Wikipedia, weather, webcams, photos, videos, previous searches are no longer available, while transit, traffic and bicycling can be found in the "getting around" box."
http://googlesystem.blogspot.nl/2013/05/the-new-google-maps-now-available.html



Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 23:45:12 +0100
From: Andy Mabbett <andy [at] pigsonthewing>
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l [at] lists>
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of
Google,    looking for open
    source alternatives
   
On 25 August 2013 23:33, Andy Mabbett <andy [at] pigsonthewing>
wrote:
>> this is one point where WMF _may_ be able to help,
>
> We already have Special:Nearby

I've started a discussion on en.Wikipedia:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Nearby_.26_replacing_Google_Maps.27_Wikipedia_layer

Please feel free to point to it from a suitable page on
Meta, or elsewhere

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk



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kikkocristian at gmail

Aug 26, 2013, 3:52 AM

Post #15 of 19 (961 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

2013/8/25 Strainu <strainu10 [at] gmail>:
> 2013/8/25 Romaine Wiki <romaine_wiki [at] yahoo>:
>> Unfortunately I couldn't find any layer for Wikipedia on http://openstreetmap.org
>
> Perhaps the WMF should provide that? Kolossos has done a tremendous
> job with his work on the subject. Moving from the toolserver to the
> labs could be a good moment to increase the resource allocated to that
> project.
>
> I think OSM would be happy with the idea. One of their layers (the
> transport map) is already provided by a third party AFAIK.

This year at Wikimania in Hong Kong there has been a "Wikimaps" panel,
where it was discussed the possibility to duplicate the OSM whole
stack to serve OpenStreetMap in Wikipedia. The bottom line for me was
"we want more OpenStreetMap in Wikimedia projects". Many user active
in the field, some people from Wikidata and from WMF devs and staff
were there.

During that discussion the point that emerged was "it is doable, but
it is not easy to replicate the stack (or only the tileserver) to do
so some dedicated developers are needed", so my understanding is that
the point is "is this a need that is widespread enough that the
Foundation should look into it"?

As Peter said:

2013/8/25 Peter Gervai <grinapo [at] gmail>:
> On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek [at] gmail> wrote:
>> You can also propose a new features to be added to the official OSM
>> database schema.
>
> It is not a question of OSM database, it's a question of services
> based on the database, especially those related to slippy map with
> mapped external content. OSMF doesn't have the resources to get this
> done, and they even struggle under the load of their tile server being
> used by the general public. In fact you're advised against using their
> tile server and you are advised to create one for your own. For
> example this is one point where WMF _may_ be able to help, but it's a
> high demand service.

Also, always in HK, there has been a OSM introductory workshop and a
brief mapping party organized by User:Aude.

>> We should strive on working together with OpenStreetMap, we supplement each other.

As I said in a thread some weeks ago in Italy, Wikimedia Italia (the
WMF Italian chapter) is discussing with the Italian OSM community to
make Wikimedia Italia also a OSMF chapter (they have the same model,
drawn mostly from our experience).

Besides that, I think I am happy with OSM being managed by another
entity (the OSM Foundation), I think that it is healtier for the the
FLOSS/OpenCulture movement and also it is better for OSM which is a
very big project. Of course in case of need e.g. if some government
try to censor OSM, I think that we as a community and also WMF should
weigh in.

2013/8/25 Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek [at] gmail>:
> http://openstreetmap.org - is just a starting point to OSM

About the main issue discussed here I quote completely Tomasz. This is
one of the first things to know about OSM, probably the tool you need
already exists, it is just out there.

IMHO, many people use Google Maps because "it just works", you write
"go from A to B" and it shows routing. Search "pizzeria" and they pop
out". OSM has all this stuff, but they are spread in different sites,
for example:
* http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Routing
* or the already cited
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM_based_Services

To me this looks a little like the people who are not using Linux
because they don't want to spend time/are not able to find their way
around distributions, versions and things like that; the perception
being that "there is only one Windows or Mac OS" (which is not true
but, that's the whole point).

Cristian

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grinapo at gmail

Aug 26, 2013, 4:37 AM

Post #16 of 19 (954 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Cristian Consonni
<kikkocristian [at] gmail> wrote:
> 2013/8/25 Strainu <strainu10 [at] gmail>:
>> 2013/8/25 Romaine Wiki <romaine_wiki [at] yahoo>:
>>> Unfortunately I couldn't find any layer for Wikipedia on http://openstreetmap.org

http://osm.org/ is an example renderer. OSM is the _database_. The
information is in it, and there are several renderers showing various
external content.

> This year at Wikimania in Hong Kong there has been a "Wikimaps" panel,
> where it was discussed the possibility to duplicate the OSM whole
> stack to serve OpenStreetMap in Wikipedia. The bottom line for me was

What should be noted, however, that we should:
1) avoid to duplicate anything which is done very well by OSMF (which
is maintaining, operating and expanding OSM database), and
2) plan anything a way which helps OSM to get more user contribution,
either through Notes or by direct editing (so we should make it easy
for users to reach OSM edit fesatures over there.

Btw see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Collaboration_with_Wikipedia

g

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sumanah at wikimedia

Aug 26, 2013, 11:12 AM

Post #17 of 19 (950 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

On 08/26/2013 07:37 AM, Peter Gervai wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Cristian Consonni
> <kikkocristian [at] gmail> wrote:
>> 2013/8/25 Strainu <strainu10 [at] gmail>:
>>> 2013/8/25 Romaine Wiki <romaine_wiki [at] yahoo>:
>>>> Unfortunately I couldn't find any layer for Wikipedia on http://openstreetmap.org
>
> http://osm.org/ is an example renderer. OSM is the _database_. The
> information is in it, and there are several renderers showing various
> external content.
>
>> This year at Wikimania in Hong Kong there has been a "Wikimaps" panel,
>> where it was discussed the possibility to duplicate the OSM whole
>> stack to serve OpenStreetMap in Wikipedia. The bottom line for me was
>
> What should be noted, however, that we should:
> 1) avoid to duplicate anything which is done very well by OSMF (which
> is maintaining, operating and expanding OSM database), and
> 2) plan anything a way which helps OSM to get more user contribution,
> either through Notes or by direct editing (so we should make it easy
> for users to reach OSM edit fesatures over there.
>
> Btw see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Collaboration_with_Wikipedia
>
> g

Thanks to everyone who's been offering ideas and thoughts in this
thread! Could we move to maps-l (cc'd)?

https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/maps-l

I recently posted to maps-l about plans for the OSM tileserver that
Wikimedia is going to host:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/maps-l/2013-August/001305.html

--
Sumana Harihareswara
Engineering Community Manager
Wikimedia Foundation

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kikkocristian at gmail

Aug 26, 2013, 12:09 PM

Post #18 of 19 (946 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

2013/8/26 Sumana Harihareswara <sumanah [at] wikimedia>:
> Thanks to everyone who's been offering ideas and thoughts in this
> thread! Could we move to maps-l (cc'd)?
>
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/maps-l

Thank you for reminding me of a mailing list I should have subscribed
to a long ago ;o.

C

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andy at pigsonthewing

Aug 26, 2013, 4:22 PM

Post #19 of 19 (945 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] The failure of Google, looking for open source alternatives [In reply to]

On 25 August 2013 18:39, Andy Mabbett <andy [at] pigsonthewing> wrote:
>> Considering this for finding a Wikipedia layer on maps, I do not know any. But I do know there is an open source alternative, just like Wikipedia, but then for maps, OpenStreetMap.
>
> OSM won't do something like that, but invite others (which might be
> WMF or our community) to use their data to create such services.
>
> In fact, Kolossos has done so:
>
> http://toolserver.org/~kolossos/openlayers/kml-on-ol.php?lat=51.52214&lon=-0.06012&zoom=10&lang=de&layers=B00TT
>
> but that seems to be using an out-of-date or otherwise in complete
> data set - even so, switch (under "Optionen") to English (for greatest
> coverage) or your language of choice.


[.l'll move over to that maps list, but only fair to post this correction here]

Kolossos has provided a better URL for his tools, which is up-to-date,
and very impressive:

http://toolserver.org/~kolossos/openlayers/kml-on-ol.php?lat=51.52214&lon=-0.06012&zoom=10&lang=en


--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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