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[Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics

 

 

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Birgitte_sb at yahoo

Jul 27, 2012, 7:17 PM

Post #51 of 61 (250 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

On Jul 27, 2012, at 9:12 PM, Birgitte_sb [at] yahoo wrote:

> *Assuming the recording was produced with consent of the performers.

I should have noted this only applies to live musical performances!

Birgitte SB

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saintonge at telus

Jul 28, 2012, 1:41 AM

Post #52 of 61 (249 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

On 07/27/12 7:15 AM, wiki-list [at] phizz wrote:
> wikimail [at] inbox wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 3:35 AM, Ray Saintonge<saintonge [at] telus> wrote:
>>> I don't see that joint authorship enters into this at all. I think it's safe
>>> to assume that the one holding the camera is the one making the creative
>>> decisions about the photos.
>> Then continue to advise people that they are the sole owner of a
>> photograph just because they clicked the shutter.
>>
>> My advice is that the law isn't that simple, and that blanket
>> statements of that type are quite often incorrect.
> Suppose I take a photo of someone jumping over a hurdle. Most likely I'd alter the raw image somewhat. At least change the white balance, the colour saturation and mid grey point, but I might also change perspective, clone out some elements, blur other parts, maybe de-emphasis the colour is some other areas. The resulting image may be rather different to the image that was originally recorded.
>
> Now asuppose that the I who takes the photo is not the same I that does the post-processing.
>
>
I suppose that, like any good Wikimedian, we like to balance ourselves
on the edge cases. We can imagine many. The underlying case would be IOC
vs. Uploader. These other points about joint authorship and photo
editing really have more bearing on the identity of the defendant. They
could possibly arise, but at this stage they just obscure the main issue.

Ray

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Platonides at gmail

Jul 28, 2012, 10:28 AM

Post #53 of 61 (245 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

On 27/07/12 09:46, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
> An excellent list :) I'd like to add: you sneak in the stadium without
> paying the ticket. IOC can do nothing.
>
> Seriously, if IOC decides to go after someone, don't they first have to
> prove that he bought the ticket? And how can they prove that?

What if someone else bought the ticket and then gifted it to you?



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wikimail at inbox

Jul 28, 2012, 10:42 AM

Post #54 of 61 (246 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Platonides <Platonides [at] gmail> wrote:
> On 27/07/12 09:46, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
>> An excellent list :) I'd like to add: you sneak in the stadium without
>> paying the ticket. IOC can do nothing.
>>
>> Seriously, if IOC decides to go after someone, don't they first have to
>> prove that he bought the ticket? And how can they prove that?
>
> What if someone else bought the ticket and then gifted it to you?

That would be equivalent to sneaking in, since tickets are non-transferable.

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Platonides at gmail

Jul 28, 2012, 10:42 AM

Post #55 of 61 (246 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

On 24/07/12 12:15, Richard Symonds wrote:
> WMUK have asked, and we live in London; some of us next door to the
> stadium. The answer is a resounding 'no' from all corners, even when we
> speak to the government. We've got a volunteer with very good access to the
> games, but even behind the scenes it's difficult to get photographs.
>
> The IOC are not here to give things away for free, it seems: something
> which is painfully apparent to those who've seen the ticket prices!
>
> Richard Symonds, Wikimedia UK

Did you try to get a compromise offering a delayed publication?
ie. You take photographs but do not make them available under a free
license until after X time (you coould use a more restrictive license
such as CC-BY-NC-SA or not to publish it at all during the "embargo").

As I see it, they want that the media reporting the event is all
acreditated, not republishing third-party images (perhaps to get some
quality level, maybe to make it a selling point for accreditations)

However, all those agencies, TVs and newspapers have no use of those
images after the event. Much less to scrape others coverage. One month
after the event, it will get buried in the archive.
But our article will be left without a free image for 70 years (plus
author lifetime). It would be suboptimal not being able to publish them
right away, but it is very sad not having a photograph of <sport> gold
medal just because IOC sold draconian tickets.


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Birgitte_sb at yahoo

Jul 28, 2012, 10:44 AM

Post #56 of 61 (246 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

On Jul 28, 2012, at 12:28 PM, Platonides <Platonides [at] gmail> wrote:

> On 27/07/12 09:46, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
>> An excellent list :) I'd like to add: you sneak in the stadium without
>> paying the ticket. IOC can do nothing.
>>
>> Seriously, if IOC decides to go after someone, don't they first have to
>> prove that he bought the ticket? And how can they prove that?
>
> What if someone else bought the ticket and then gifted it to you?
>
>
>


2.2 By applying for, purchasing, holding or using a Ticket, a Ticket Holder agrees that he or she shall comply with these Terms and Conditions.

http://www.tickets.london2012.com/purchaseterms.html
Birgitte SB
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wikimail at inbox

Jul 28, 2012, 10:49 AM

Post #57 of 61 (250 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 1:44 PM, <Birgitte_sb [at] yahoo> wrote:
> 2.2 By applying for, purchasing, holding or using a Ticket, a Ticket Holder agrees that he or she shall comply with these Terms and Conditions.
>
> http://www.tickets.london2012.com/purchaseterms.html

Well, yeah, but legally that's nonsense. I can write "by reading this
email you agree to comply with these Terms and Conditions", but
(hopefully?) no court is going to uphold that.

The key to enforcability is that the ticket grants a license. If you
don't agree to the Terms and Conditions, then you don't have a valid
license to enter the premises.

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wikimail at inbox

Jul 28, 2012, 11:54 AM

Post #58 of 61 (250 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 4:41 AM, Ray Saintonge <saintonge [at] telus> wrote:
> I suppose that, like any good Wikimedian, we like to balance ourselves on
> the edge cases. We can imagine many. The underlying case would be IOC vs.
> Uploader. These other points about joint authorship and photo editing really
> have more bearing on the identity of the defendant.

I assume that the IOC has been granted some sort of permission by the
various participants in the olympic events. So if you're
photographing, say, the opening ceremony, then your concern would not
only be with regard to the rights of the IOC directly, but also with
the rights of any opening ceremony participants who granted an
exclusive license to IOC.

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yannfo at gmail

Aug 1, 2012, 4:50 AM

Post #59 of 61 (220 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

2012/7/28 Anthony <wikimail [at] inbox>:
> On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Platonides <Platonides [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On 27/07/12 09:46, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
>>> An excellent list :) I'd like to add: you sneak in the stadium without
>>> paying the ticket. IOC can do nothing.
>>>
>>> Seriously, if IOC decides to go after someone, don't they first have to
>>> prove that he bought the ticket? And how can they prove that?
>>
>> What if someone else bought the ticket and then gifted it to you?
>
> That would be equivalent to sneaking in, since tickets are non-transferable.

There is certainly a possibility to buy a ticket for somebody else.
I suppose there is a difference between the ticket holder and the
cash/credit card handler.
I see 100 cases where this is necessary.

Yann

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smolensk at eunet

Aug 1, 2012, 5:15 AM

Post #60 of 61 (223 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

On 28/07/12 19:44, Birgitte_sb [at] yahoo wrote:
> On Jul 28, 2012, at 12:28 PM, Platonides<Platonides [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On 27/07/12 09:46, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
>>> An excellent list :) I'd like to add: you sneak in the stadium without
>>> paying the ticket. IOC can do nothing.
>>>
>>> Seriously, if IOC decides to go after someone, don't they first have to
>>> prove that he bought the ticket? And how can they prove that?
>>
>> What if someone else bought the ticket and then gifted it to you?
>
> 2.2 By applying for, purchasing, holding or using a Ticket, a Ticket Holder agrees that he or she shall comply with these Terms and Conditions.
>
> http://www.tickets.london2012.com/purchaseterms.html

Haven't we concluded that this can only apply to the person buying the
ticket, not to other people?


wikimail at inbox

Aug 1, 2012, 12:58 PM

Post #61 of 61 (221 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Nikola Smolenski <smolensk [at] eunet> wrote:
> On 28/07/12 19:44, Birgitte_sb [at] yahoo wrote:
>> 2.2 By applying for, purchasing, holding or using a Ticket, a Ticket
>> Holder agrees that he or she shall comply with these Terms and Conditions.
>>
>> http://www.tickets.london2012.com/purchaseterms.html
>
> Haven't we concluded that this can only apply to the person buying the
> ticket, not to other people?

Who concluded that, and on what basis?

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