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amir.aharoni at mail

Jul 24, 2012, 1:17 AM

Post #1 of 61 (411 views)
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[Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics

Hi,

The Olympic games are beginning soon. Apparently, ticket holders
cannot use photo equipment longer than 30cm and cannot use the photos
and videos for commercial purposes without accreditation.

Practically everything that happens at the Olympics is notable and
should be on Wikipedia, Commons, etc. Does anybody know whether there
are professional accredited photographers who are Wikimedia-friendly
and plan to upload their photos? If there aren't any, does anybody
know whether a Wikipedian can obtain such accreditation?

This doesn't concern me directly, but there are many, many people who
write Wikipedia articles about sports in all languages and it may be
interesting to them. Also, it may be a frequent issue in sports and
I'm just not aware of it because I rarely follow sports.

Sources for the restrictions:
* http://www.tickets.london2012.com/purchaseterms.html
* PDF: http://j.mp/london2012prohibited

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

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ilario.valdelli at wikimedia

Jul 24, 2012, 1:29 AM

Post #2 of 61 (406 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

Wikimedia Ch gives usually accreditations and we did it in the past also
for sport's events.

Naturally we gives accreditation only to people who send as formal request
and are identified (no unknown people).

In general we contact the press office of the event and inform them that a
defined number of photographers will participate, as soon we receive the
notification, these persons are accredited.

Naturally these persons will operate as Wikimedia Ch personel and may be
protected with an insurance (at least within Switzerland).

Anyway we have received no requests of accreditation for Olympics 2012.

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Amir E. Aharoni <
amir.aharoni [at] mail> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The Olympic games are beginning soon. Apparently, ticket holders
> cannot use photo equipment longer than 30cm and cannot use the photos
> and videos for commercial purposes without accreditation.
>
> Practically everything that happens at the Olympics is notable and
> should be on Wikipedia, Commons, etc. Does anybody know whether there
> are professional accredited photographers who are Wikimedia-friendly
> and plan to upload their photos? If there aren't any, does anybody
> know whether a Wikipedian can obtain such accreditation?
>
>

--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur F�rderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l�avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Z�rich
Tel: <http://www.wikimedia.ch/>+41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch
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vp2007 at gmail

Jul 24, 2012, 1:30 AM

Post #3 of 61 (406 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

May be we should take such anomalies to public forums!

Slash dot? Free knowledge forums? Press? Media?

Olympics is not just a money spinning sponsored affair. Information about
the happenings there is the right of every universal citizen!

The 'long' camera may have something to do with security. But
accreditations?

My 2 cents of thoughts.
-Viswam

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Amir E. Aharoni <
amir.aharoni [at] mail> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The Olympic games are beginning soon. Apparently, ticket holders
> cannot use photo equipment longer than 30cm and cannot use the photos
> and videos for commercial purposes without accreditation.
>
> Practically everything that happens at the Olympics is notable and
> should be on Wikipedia, Commons, etc. Does anybody know whether there
> are professional accredited photographers who are Wikimedia-friendly
> and plan to upload their photos? If there aren't any, does anybody
> know whether a Wikipedian can obtain such accreditation?
>
> This doesn't concern me directly, but there are many, many people who
> write Wikipedia articles about sports in all languages and it may be
> interesting to them. Also, it may be a frequent issue in sports and
> I'm just not aware of it because I rarely follow sports.
>
> Sources for the restrictions:
> * http://www.tickets.london2012.com/purchaseterms.html
> * PDF: http://j.mp/london2012prohibited
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
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amir.aharoni at mail

Jul 24, 2012, 1:35 AM

Post #4 of 61 (410 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

2012/7/24 ViswaPrabha (വിശ്വപ്രഭ) <vp2007 [at] gmail>:
> May be we should take such anomalies to public forums!

I'm not actually sure that it's an anomaly. As I said, I don't follow
sports and I only noticed such a thing now for the first time, but I
don't find it extremely surprising.

I can even understand the restrictions somewhat - it's possible that
it's not just a matter of greed, but also of privacy, press ethics,
etc. Some screening of participation in a major public event is not
entirely unreasonable. The main question is - is there a reasonable
way in which a Free-Culture-friendly photographer could pass such
screening.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

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liamwyatt at gmail

Jul 24, 2012, 2:05 AM

Post #5 of 61 (408 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

This issue is not merely theoretical.
Many will recall the controversy surrounding the free-licensed photo of
Usain Bolt, on Commons, taken during the Beijing Olympics:
-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-10-12/In_the_news
-
http://ragesoss.com/blog/2009/10/09/wikipedia-and-olympics-committee-heading-for-collision/

-Liam

wittylama.com/blog
Peace, love & metadata
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petr.kadlec at gmail

Jul 24, 2012, 2:14 AM

Post #6 of 61 (406 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

On 24 July 2012 10:35, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni [at] mail> wrote:
> 2012/7/24 ViswaPrabha (വിശ്വപ്രഭ) <vp2007 [at] gmail>:
>> May be we should take such anomalies to public forums!
>
> I'm not actually sure that it's an anomaly. As I said, I don't follow
> sports and I only noticed such a thing now for the first time, but I
> don't find it extremely surprising.

Exactly. Actually, there are much greater “anomalies” around Olympics…
See e.g. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2012/07/21/london-olympics-lord-coe-s-astonishing-sponsors-outburst-86908-23910798/

It is probably interesting to point out we have
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/COM:NCR stating basically we ignore
such “house rules” (or, in other words: if anyone without an
accreditation dares to upload his photos under a free license, we will
happily keep the images on Commons, whatever was written on the
tickets, with any possible risks on the uploader, of course).

-- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]

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schutz at mathgen

Jul 24, 2012, 2:21 AM

Post #7 of 61 (409 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

Has anyone from the Wikimedia community contacted the IOC on this matter?

If not, WM CH could give it a try (their headquarters are in
Switzerland, actually less than 2km away from my place). I'm not overly
optimistic, but it may be worth a try.

Fr�d�ric

On 24/07/12 11:05, Liam Wyatt wrote:

> This issue is not merely theoretical.
> Many will recall the controversy surrounding the free-licensed photo of
> Usain Bolt, on Commons, taken during the Beijing Olympics:
> -
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-10-12/In_the_news
> -
> http://ragesoss.com/blog/2009/10/09/wikipedia-and-olympics-committee-heading-for-collision/
>
> -Liam
>
> wittylama.com/blog
> Peace, love& metadata
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

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valdelli at gmail

Jul 24, 2012, 2:39 AM

Post #8 of 61 (401 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

I assume that a photographer with an accreditation may take photos also for
commercial use.

I suppose that the IOC connects the right to take this kind of photos with
the accreditation and to pay a contingent grant as soon this accreditation
is assigned.

The use of limited photo equipments for the no accredited persons assures
that the photos will be low qualitative.

In my opinion the position of IOC is correct. If someone would take
professional photos, he may request an accreditation.

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt [at] gmail> wrote:

> This issue is not merely theoretical.
> Many will recall the controversy surrounding the free-licensed photo of
> Usain Bolt, on Commons, taken during the Beijing Olympics:
> -
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-10-12/In_the_news
> -
>
> http://ragesoss.com/blog/2009/10/09/wikipedia-and-olympics-committee-heading-for-collision/
>
> -Liam
>
> wittylama.com/blog
> Peace, love & metadata
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>

--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur F�rderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l�avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Z�rich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch
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polimerek at gmail

Jul 24, 2012, 2:43 AM

Post #9 of 61 (397 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

2012/7/24 Frederic Schutz <schutz [at] mathgen>:
> Has anyone from the Wikimedia community contacted the IOC on this matter?
>
> If not, WM CH could give it a try (their headquarters are in Switzerland,
> actually less than 2km away from my place). I'm not overly optimistic, but
> it may be worth a try.
>

According to what is written there:

http://www.london2012.com/media-centre/

It is actually too late to apply for press/photo accreditation :-(

--
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz

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schutz at mathgen

Jul 24, 2012, 2:48 AM

Post #10 of 61 (395 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

On 24/07/12 11:43, Tomasz Ganicz wrote:

>> Has anyone from the Wikimedia community contacted the IOC on this matter?
>>
>> If not, WM CH could give it a try (their headquarters are in Switzerland,
>> actually less than 2km away from my place). I'm not overly optimistic, but
>> it may be worth a try.
>>
>
> According to what is written there:
>
> http://www.london2012.com/media-centre/
>
> It is actually too late to apply for press/photo accreditation :-(

Of course; I was thinking more in terms of discussing their policies,
and trying a avoid a big fuss when (not if) another picture is posted
under a license that allows commercial use (e.g. on commons).

Fr�d�ric

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andrew.gray at dunelm

Jul 24, 2012, 2:54 AM

Post #11 of 61 (396 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

On 24 July 2012 10:21, Frederic Schutz <schutz [at] mathgen> wrote:
> Has anyone from the Wikimedia community contacted the IOC on this matter?
>
> If not, WM CH could give it a try (their headquarters are in Switzerland,
> actually less than 2km away from my place). I'm not overly optimistic, but
> it may be worth a try.

Wikimedia Australia have two accredited reporters for the Paralympics,
but this explicitly does not provide for freely licensed photography:

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Paralympic_Games

--
- Andrew Gray
andrew.gray [at] dunelm

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amir.aharoni at mail

Jul 24, 2012, 2:58 AM

Post #12 of 61 (397 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

2012/7/24 Andrew Gray <andrew.gray [at] dunelm>:
> On 24 July 2012 10:21, Frederic Schutz <schutz [at] mathgen> wrote:
>> Has anyone from the Wikimedia community contacted the IOC on this matter?
>>
>> If not, WM CH could give it a try (their headquarters are in Switzerland,
>> actually less than 2km away from my place). I'm not overly optimistic, but
>> it may be worth a try.
>
> Wikimedia Australia have two accredited reporters for the Paralympics,
> but this explicitly does not provide for freely licensed photography:
>
> http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Paralympic_Games

Aha! Now this starts to be a problem that justifies a campaign for
allowing Wikmedia-compatible licensing. At the very least, a post
about this issue in the Foundation blog or in one of the chapters'
blogs.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

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richard.symonds at wikimedia

Jul 24, 2012, 3:15 AM

Post #13 of 61 (398 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

WMUK have asked, and we live in London; some of us next door to the
stadium. The answer is a resounding 'no' from all corners, even when we
speak to the government. We've got a volunteer with very good access to the
games, but even behind the scenes it's difficult to get photographs.

The IOC are not here to give things away for free, it seems: something
which is painfully apparent to those who've seen the ticket prices!

Richard Symonds, Wikimedia UK
On Jul 24, 2012 10:59 AM, "Amir E. Aharoni" <amir.aharoni [at] mail>
wrote:

> 2012/7/24 Andrew Gray <andrew.gray [at] dunelm>:
> > On 24 July 2012 10:21, Frederic Schutz <schutz [at] mathgen> wrote:
> >> Has anyone from the Wikimedia community contacted the IOC on this
> matter?
> >>
> >> If not, WM CH could give it a try (their headquarters are in
> Switzerland,
> >> actually less than 2km away from my place). I'm not overly optimistic,
> but
> >> it may be worth a try.
> >
> > Wikimedia Australia have two accredited reporters for the Paralympics,
> > but this explicitly does not provide for freely licensed photography:
> >
> > http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Paralympic_Games
>
> Aha! Now this starts to be a problem that justifies a campaign for
> allowing Wikmedia-compatible licensing. At the very least, a post
> about this issue in the Foundation blog or in one of the chapters'
> blogs.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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amir.aharoni at mail

Jul 24, 2012, 3:20 AM

Post #14 of 61 (398 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

2012/7/24 Richard Symonds <richard.symonds [at] wikimedia>:
> WMUK have asked, and we live in London; some of us next door to the
> stadium. The answer is a resounding 'no' from all corners, even when we
> speak to the government. We've got a volunteer with very good access to the
> games, but even behind the scenes it's difficult to get photographs.

Thank you very much for this answer. I'm very glad to hear that you tried.

Did they explain the resounding 'no'? Do they consider WM-UK to be not
worthy of accreditation in general? Or do they refuse to give a
permission to release photos under Free Wikimedia-compatible licences?

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

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valdelli at gmail

Jul 24, 2012, 3:51 AM

Post #15 of 61 (397 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Andrew Gray <andrew.gray [at] dunelm>wrote:

> On 24 July 2012 10:21, Frederic Schutz <schutz [at] mathgen> wrote:
> > Has anyone from the Wikimedia community contacted the IOC on this matter?
> >
> > If not, WM CH could give it a try (their headquarters are in Switzerland,
> > actually less than 2km away from my place). I'm not overly optimistic,
> but
> > it may be worth a try.
>
> Wikimedia Australia have two accredited reporters for the Paralympics,
> but this explicitly does not provide for freely licensed photography:
>
> http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Paralympic_Games
>
> --
> - Andrew Gray
> andrew.gray [at] dunelm

I think that it is connected with the kind of the category of accreditation.

There are some restrictive categories.

There would be no sense to block this possibility to a professional
photoreporter if a newspaper could release the same photo under free
license afterwards.

Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur F�rderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l�avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Z�rich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch
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kikkocristian at gmail

Jul 24, 2012, 7:54 AM

Post #16 of 61 (400 views)
Permalink

Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

2012/7/24 Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni [at] mail>:
> Hi,
>
> The Olympic games are beginning soon. Apparently, ticket holders
> cannot use photo equipment longer than 30cm and cannot use the photos
> and videos for commercial purposes without accreditation.
>
> Practically everything that happens at the Olympics is notable and
> should be on Wikipedia, Commons, etc. Does anybody know whether there
> are professional accredited photographers who are Wikimedia-friendly
> and plan to upload their photos? If there aren't any, does anybody
> know whether a Wikipedian can obtain such accreditation?
>
> This doesn't concern me directly, but there are many, many people who
> write Wikipedia articles about sports in all languages and it may be
> interesting to them. Also, it may be a frequent issue in sports and
> I'm just not aware of it because I rarely follow sports.
>
> Sources for the restrictions:
> * http://www.tickets.london2012.com/purchaseterms.html
> * PDF: http://j.mp/london2012prohibited

I think this another layer of problems besides copyright, with
CC-BY-SA the author grants permission to reuse the photo also for
commercial purposes without requesting permission to the author. But
there are many other layers of rights which could interfere with the
free (or better the "anarchic") reuse of a photo. For example I think
that using an image of Usain Bolt to promote a book without explicit
permission from the athlete (or his agent) is anyhow unlawful even if
the photo was taken, for example, in the street and freely licensed.
That said I think with can treat photo from the Olympics in a similar
way as we do for photos with "personality rights", we could put a
template saying "Olympics photo warning: to reuse for commercial
purposes this photo you should obtain permission from IOC and/or
individuals depicted in the photo".
The point is that the author of the photo allows for it the widest
possible reuse permitted by CC-BY-SA, thus sharing part of its
copyright with others, but if one wants to use the photo for
commercial purposes that he should go (himself, not the author)
through the hassle of obtaining permission from the relevant subjects.

Could it work?

Cristian

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mroth at wikimedia

Jul 24, 2012, 8:18 AM

Post #17 of 61 (396 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 2:21 AM, Frederic Schutz <schutz [at] mathgen> wrote:

> Has anyone from the Wikimedia community contacted the IOC on this matter?
>

This conversation came up about a month ago on the Communications Committee
list and Jimmy mentioned that he had made requests through his channels and
had also been told no.

-Matthew

--

Matthew Roth
Global Communications
Wikimedia Foundation
+1.415.839.6885 ext 6635
www.wikimediafoundation.org
*https://donate.wikimedia.org*
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polimerek at gmail

Jul 24, 2012, 11:15 AM

Post #18 of 61 (396 views)
Permalink

Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

2012/7/24 Cristian Consonni <kikkocristian [at] gmail>:
> 2012/7/24 Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni [at] mail>:
>> Hi,
>>
>> The Olympic games are beginning soon. Apparently, ticket holders
>> cannot use photo equipment longer than 30cm and cannot use the photos
>> and videos for commercial purposes without accreditation.
>>
>> Practically everything that happens at the Olympics is notable and
>> should be on Wikipedia, Commons, etc. Does anybody know whether there
>> are professional accredited photographers who are Wikimedia-friendly
>> and plan to upload their photos? If there aren't any, does anybody
>> know whether a Wikipedian can obtain such accreditation?
>>
>> This doesn't concern me directly, but there are many, many people who
>> write Wikipedia articles about sports in all languages and it may be
>> interesting to them. Also, it may be a frequent issue in sports and
>> I'm just not aware of it because I rarely follow sports.
>>
>> Sources for the restrictions:
>> * http://www.tickets.london2012.com/purchaseterms.html
>> * PDF: http://j.mp/london2012prohibited
>
> I think this another layer of problems besides copyright, with
> CC-BY-SA the author grants permission to reuse the photo also for
> commercial purposes without requesting permission to the author. But
> there are many other layers of rights which could interfere with the
> free (or better the "anarchic") reuse of a photo. For example I think
> that using an image of Usain Bolt to promote a book without explicit
> permission from the athlete (or his agent) is anyhow unlawful even if
> the photo was taken, for example, in the street and freely licensed.
> That said I think with can treat photo from the Olympics in a similar
> way as we do for photos with "personality rights", we could put a
> template saying "Olympics photo warning: to reuse for commercial
> purposes this photo you should obtain permission from IOC and/or
> individuals depicted in the photo".
> The point is that the author of the photo allows for it the widest
> possible reuse permitted by CC-BY-SA, thus sharing part of its
> copyright with others, but if one wants to use the photo for
> commercial purposes that he should go (himself, not the author)
> through the hassle of obtaining permission from the relevant subjects.
>
> Could it work?
>

No. CC-BY-SA clearly allows for commercial use of works, and there is
also clause that the licence cannot be accompanied by extra
restrictions which are not compatible with the licence. However,
CC-BY-SA is only copyrights licence, so all other legal restrictionz
are still in power. For example: using someone's face in big-scale
commercial or political campaign may be treated as a infringement of
personal rights, even if the face is taken from CC-BY-SA picture...

--
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz

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lodewijk at effeietsanders

Jul 24, 2012, 12:40 PM

Post #19 of 61 (385 views)
Permalink

Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

Would it make sense to start a more thorough long term lobby on this issue?
Considering that this will be a returning issue every two years, I guess
that would be worth the trouble...

Lodewijk

2012/7/24 Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek [at] gmail>

> 2012/7/24 Cristian Consonni <kikkocristian [at] gmail>:
> > 2012/7/24 Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni [at] mail>:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> The Olympic games are beginning soon. Apparently, ticket holders
> >> cannot use photo equipment longer than 30cm and cannot use the photos
> >> and videos for commercial purposes without accreditation.
> >>
> >> Practically everything that happens at the Olympics is notable and
> >> should be on Wikipedia, Commons, etc. Does anybody know whether there
> >> are professional accredited photographers who are Wikimedia-friendly
> >> and plan to upload their photos? If there aren't any, does anybody
> >> know whether a Wikipedian can obtain such accreditation?
> >>
> >> This doesn't concern me directly, but there are many, many people who
> >> write Wikipedia articles about sports in all languages and it may be
> >> interesting to them. Also, it may be a frequent issue in sports and
> >> I'm just not aware of it because I rarely follow sports.
> >>
> >> Sources for the restrictions:
> >> * http://www.tickets.london2012.com/purchaseterms.html
> >> * PDF: http://j.mp/london2012prohibited
> >
> > I think this another layer of problems besides copyright, with
> > CC-BY-SA the author grants permission to reuse the photo also for
> > commercial purposes without requesting permission to the author. But
> > there are many other layers of rights which could interfere with the
> > free (or better the "anarchic") reuse of a photo. For example I think
> > that using an image of Usain Bolt to promote a book without explicit
> > permission from the athlete (or his agent) is anyhow unlawful even if
> > the photo was taken, for example, in the street and freely licensed.
> > That said I think with can treat photo from the Olympics in a similar
> > way as we do for photos with "personality rights", we could put a
> > template saying "Olympics photo warning: to reuse for commercial
> > purposes this photo you should obtain permission from IOC and/or
> > individuals depicted in the photo".
> > The point is that the author of the photo allows for it the widest
> > possible reuse permitted by CC-BY-SA, thus sharing part of its
> > copyright with others, but if one wants to use the photo for
> > commercial purposes that he should go (himself, not the author)
> > through the hassle of obtaining permission from the relevant subjects.
> >
> > Could it work?
> >
>
> No. CC-BY-SA clearly allows for commercial use of works, and there is
> also clause that the licence cannot be accompanied by extra
> restrictions which are not compatible with the licence. However,
> CC-BY-SA is only copyrights licence, so all other legal restrictionz
> are still in power. For example: using someone's face in big-scale
> commercial or political campaign may be treated as a infringement of
> personal rights, even if the face is taken from CC-BY-SA picture...
>
>
>
> --
> Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
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amir.aharoni at mail

Jul 24, 2012, 12:49 PM

Post #20 of 61 (389 views)
Permalink

Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

2012/7/24 Lodewijk <lodewijk [at] effeietsanders>:
> Would it make sense to start a more thorough long term lobby on this issue?
> Considering that this will be a returning issue every two years, I guess
> that would be worth the trouble...

Generally, I think that it would be a good idea. I'm just not very
comfortable with the fact that I'm not so good myself at political and
commercial strategies and that I expect other people to actually do
the lobbying, but as far as ideological campaigns go, it seems that
this one is quite right for Wikimedia.

Maybe it doesn't even have to be confrontational ("the IOC is evil")
or preachy ("all information must be free"). Maybe somebody who is an
experienced researcher in social and commercial media can simply
convince the IOC that releasing some photos or giving Wikimedians a
permission to take photos and to publish them under a free license is
beneficial to the IOC itself. Maybe I'm just fantasizing.

Most of all, I'm still curious about the reasons that the IOC (or
whoever is in charge) provided for the refusals.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

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keegan.wiki at gmail

Jul 24, 2012, 12:56 PM

Post #21 of 61 (387 views)
Permalink

Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

~ Keegan
Sent mobile
On Jul 24, 2012 2:50 PM, "Amir E. Aharoni" <amir.aharoni [at] mail>
wrote:
>
> Most of all, I'm still curious about the reasons that the IOC (or
> whoever is in charge) provided for the refusals.
>
>

In the immortal words of Steve Martin in The Jerk, "It's a profit deal!
That really takes the pressure off."

--
~Keegan
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thomassouzabuckup at gmail

Jul 25, 2012, 2:29 AM

Post #22 of 61 (385 views)
Permalink

Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

Lodewijk

I agree with you. It makes a lot of sense to start now a negotiation with
the IOC in order to prepare for the next Olympic Games taking place in
Brazil in 2016. It may take a long time for us to see the first results and
thereafter we should start asap a "more thorough long term lobby on this
issue". Who else would like to join this task force?

Thomas
TSB

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Lodewijk <lodewijk [at] effeietsanders>wrote:

> Would it make sense to start a more thorough long term lobby on this issue?
> Considering that this will be a returning issue every two years, I guess
> that would be worth the trouble...
>
> Lodewijk
>
> 2012/7/24 Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek [at] gmail>
>
> > 2012/7/24 Cristian Consonni <kikkocristian [at] gmail>:
> > > 2012/7/24 Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni [at] mail>:
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> The Olympic games are beginning soon. Apparently, ticket holders
> > >> cannot use photo equipment longer than 30cm and cannot use the photos
> > >> and videos for commercial purposes without accreditation.
> > >>
> > >> Practically everything that happens at the Olympics is notable and
> > >> should be on Wikipedia, Commons, etc. Does anybody know whether there
> > >> are professional accredited photographers who are Wikimedia-friendly
> > >> and plan to upload their photos? If there aren't any, does anybody
> > >> know whether a Wikipedian can obtain such accreditation?
> > >>
> > >> This doesn't concern me directly, but there are many, many people who
> > >> write Wikipedia articles about sports in all languages and it may be
> > >> interesting to them. Also, it may be a frequent issue in sports and
> > >> I'm just not aware of it because I rarely follow sports.
> > >>
> > >> Sources for the restrictions:
> > >> * http://www.tickets.london2012.com/purchaseterms.html
> > >> * PDF: http://j.mp/london2012prohibited
> > >
> > > I think this another layer of problems besides copyright, with
> > > CC-BY-SA the author grants permission to reuse the photo also for
> > > commercial purposes without requesting permission to the author. But
> > > there are many other layers of rights which could interfere with the
> > > free (or better the "anarchic") reuse of a photo. For example I think
> > > that using an image of Usain Bolt to promote a book without explicit
> > > permission from the athlete (or his agent) is anyhow unlawful even if
> > > the photo was taken, for example, in the street and freely licensed.
> > > That said I think with can treat photo from the Olympics in a similar
> > > way as we do for photos with "personality rights", we could put a
> > > template saying "Olympics photo warning: to reuse for commercial
> > > purposes this photo you should obtain permission from IOC and/or
> > > individuals depicted in the photo".
> > > The point is that the author of the photo allows for it the widest
> > > possible reuse permitted by CC-BY-SA, thus sharing part of its
> > > copyright with others, but if one wants to use the photo for
> > > commercial purposes that he should go (himself, not the author)
> > > through the hassle of obtaining permission from the relevant subjects.
> > >
> > > Could it work?
> > >
> >
> > No. CC-BY-SA clearly allows for commercial use of works, and there is
> > also clause that the licence cannot be accompanied by extra
> > restrictions which are not compatible with the licence. However,
> > CC-BY-SA is only copyrights licence, so all other legal restrictionz
> > are still in power. For example: using someone's face in big-scale
> > commercial or political campaign may be treated as a infringement of
> > personal rights, even if the face is taken from CC-BY-SA picture...
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> > http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l [at] lists
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
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amir.aharoni at mail

Jul 25, 2012, 2:34 AM

Post #23 of 61 (384 views)
Permalink

Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

2012/7/25 Thomas Souza-Buckup <thomassouzabuckup [at] gmail>:
> Lodewijk
>
> I agree with you. It makes a lot of sense to start now a negotiation with
> the IOC in order to prepare for the next Olympic Games taking place in
> Brazil in 2016.

The winter games in Sochi 2014 are supposed to be quite interesting, too.

> It may take a long time for us to see the first results and
> thereafter we should start asap a "more thorough long term lobby on this
> issue". Who else would like to join this task force?

Myself, because I care about free culture. (And for the sake of
fairness, since I started the thread :) )

But more people are needed - particularly people who know something
about sports, about commercial media and about lobbying.

--
Amir

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kikkocristian at gmail

Jul 26, 2012, 1:04 AM

Post #24 of 61 (382 views)
Permalink

Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

2012/7/24 Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek [at] gmail>:
> 2012/7/24 Cristian Consonni <kikkocristian [at] gmail>:
>> 2012/7/24 Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni [at] mail>:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> The Olympic games are beginning soon. Apparently, ticket holders
>>> cannot use photo equipment longer than 30cm and cannot use the photos
>>> and videos for commercial purposes without accreditation.
>>>
>>> Practically everything that happens at the Olympics is notable and
>>> should be on Wikipedia, Commons, etc. Does anybody know whether there
>>> are professional accredited photographers who are Wikimedia-friendly
>>> and plan to upload their photos? If there aren't any, does anybody
>>> know whether a Wikipedian can obtain such accreditation?
>>>
>>> This doesn't concern me directly, but there are many, many people who
>>> write Wikipedia articles about sports in all languages and it may be
>>> interesting to them. Also, it may be a frequent issue in sports and
>>> I'm just not aware of it because I rarely follow sports.
>>>
>>> Sources for the restrictions:
>>> * http://www.tickets.london2012.com/purchaseterms.html
>>> * PDF: http://j.mp/london2012prohibited
>>
>> I think this another layer of problems besides copyright, with
>> CC-BY-SA the author grants permission to reuse the photo also for
>> commercial purposes without requesting permission to the author. But
>> there are many other layers of rights which could interfere with the
>> free (or better the "anarchic") reuse of a photo. For example I think
>> that using an image of Usain Bolt to promote a book without explicit
>> permission from the athlete (or his agent) is anyhow unlawful even if
>> the photo was taken, for example, in the street and freely licensed.
>> That said I think with can treat photo from the Olympics in a similar
>> way as we do for photos with "personality rights", we could put a
>> template saying "Olympics photo warning: to reuse for commercial
>> purposes this photo you should obtain permission from IOC and/or
>> individuals depicted in the photo".
>> The point is that the author of the photo allows for it the widest
>> possible reuse permitted by CC-BY-SA, thus sharing part of its
>> copyright with others, but if one wants to use the photo for
>> commercial purposes that he should go (himself, not the author)
>> through the hassle of obtaining permission from the relevant subjects.
>>
>> Could it work?
>>
>
> No. CC-BY-SA clearly allows for commercial use of works, and there is
> also clause that the licence cannot be accompanied by extra
> restrictions which are not compatible with the licence. However,
> CC-BY-SA is only copyrights licence, so all other legal restrictionz
> are still in power. For example: using someone's face in big-scale
> commercial or political campaign may be treated as a infringement of
> personal rights, even if the face is taken from CC-BY-SA picture...

I really can't figure out the difference between your example about
personality rights and my previous, so I don't see why you're saying
that the above approch could not work, but IANAL.

As I said above I think this restrinction on commercial use of the
images imposed by IOC is not about copyright but is on a different
level and AFAICT is very similar to the case of personality rights to
some extent. So may you clarify?

Thanks,
Cristian

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wiki-list at phizz

Jul 26, 2012, 2:23 AM

Post #25 of 61 (371 views)
Permalink

Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics [In reply to]

kikkocristian [at] gmail wrote:
> >>> Sources for the restrictions:
> >>> * http://www.tickets.london2012.com/purchaseterms.html
> >>> * PDF: http://j.mp/london2012prohibited
>
> I really can't figure out the difference between your example about
> personality rights and my previous, so I don't see why you're saying
> that the above approch could not work, but IANAL.
>
> As I said above I think this restrinction on commercial use of the
> images imposed by IOC is not about copyright but is on a different
> level and AFAICT is very similar to the case of personality rights to
> some extent. So may you clarify?
>

There is a contractual arrangement between the IOC and the photographer as specified in terms and conditions on the ticket. If some one makes photos available commercially then they may be sued by the IOC under the terms of that contract. The issue isn't about copyright but about the contractual agreement and personal liability between the photographer and the IOC.

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