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[Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia

 

 

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jamesmikedupont at googlemail

Apr 18, 2012, 1:53 AM

Post #1 of 21 (341 views)
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[Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia

this just in, scary.

Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia
http://www.businessinsider.com/norwegian-terrorist-anders-breivik-my-biggest-influence-was-wikipedia-2012-4#ixzz1sN3LZci6


mike

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svippy at gmail

Apr 18, 2012, 2:08 AM

Post #2 of 21 (330 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

On 18 April 2012 10:53, Mike Dupont <jamesmikedupont [at] googlemail> wrote:

> this just in, scary.
>
> Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia
> http://www.businessinsider.com/norwegian-terrorist-anders-breivik-my-biggest-influence-was-wikipedia-2012-4#ixzz1sN3LZci6

Maybe he read the articles during vandalism?

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anirudhsbh at gmail

Apr 18, 2012, 2:10 AM

Post #3 of 21 (330 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

Open source models have also inspired guerrilla insurgent groups.

http://www.zinelibrary.info/fourth-generation-warfare-standing-orders-open-source-insurgencies
(Open Source Jihad)

On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Svip <svippy [at] gmail> wrote:

> On 18 April 2012 10:53, Mike Dupont <jamesmikedupont [at] googlemail>
> wrote:
>
> > this just in, scary.
> >
> > Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia
> >
> http://www.businessinsider.com/norwegian-terrorist-anders-breivik-my-biggest-influence-was-wikipedia-2012-4#ixzz1sN3LZci6
>
> Maybe he read the articles during vandalism?
>
> _______________________________________________
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george.herbert at gmail

Apr 18, 2012, 2:27 AM

Post #4 of 21 (328 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

We should probably not read too much into this. His public statements seem to have been calculated to harm his perceived enemies. Does an open content, liberal open encyclopedia sound like we'd be his friend?


George William Herbert
Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 18, 2012, at 2:10, Anirudh Bhati <anirudhsbh [at] gmail> wrote:

> Open source models have also inspired guerrilla insurgent groups.
>
> http://www.zinelibrary.info/fourth-generation-warfare-standing-orders-open-source-insurgencies
> (Open Source Jihad)
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Svip <svippy [at] gmail> wrote:
>
>> On 18 April 2012 10:53, Mike Dupont <jamesmikedupont [at] googlemail>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> this just in, scary.
>>>
>>> Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia
>>>
>> http://www.businessinsider.com/norwegian-terrorist-anders-breivik-my-biggest-influence-was-wikipedia-2012-4#ixzz1sN3LZci6
>>
>> Maybe he read the articles during vandalism?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> Wikimedia-l [at] lists
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>>
> _______________________________________________
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andreengels at gmail

Apr 18, 2012, 2:38 AM

Post #5 of 21 (328 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Svip <svippy [at] gmail> wrote:
> On 18 April 2012 10:53, Mike  Dupont <jamesmikedupont [at] googlemail> wrote:
>
>> this just in, scary.
>>
>> Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia
>> http://www.businessinsider.com/norwegian-terrorist-anders-breivik-my-biggest-influence-was-wikipedia-2012-4#ixzz1sN3LZci6
>
> Maybe he read the articles during vandalism?

Nah, he probably just read neutral information from Wikipedia - and
then consumed that with a lot of confirmation bias. It's a fact of
life - Wikipedia makes information more easily available for everyone,
also for those who use it for bad.

--
André Engels, andreengels [at] gmail

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jamesmikedupont at googlemail

Apr 18, 2012, 2:40 AM

Post #6 of 21 (329 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 11:27 AM, George Herbert
<george.herbert [at] gmail>wrote:

> Does an open content, liberal open encyclopedia sound like we'd be his
> friend?
>
Well I agree that this guy was out to do harm, and that we cannot trust
anything he says as being truthful.
People will use radicals like this for pushing more controls and less
freedom.


On the other side, I think that wikipedia has a lot of work to do in
cleaning up. warning, now comes my chip on the shoulder, you can skip this
if you want.
RANT BEGIN
there are a great deal of inconsistencies on fringe topics (and i wont bore
you with the name of my favorite topic right now, but you can guess) where
both sides of the argument are equally twisted. there is a lack of
experienced moderators and also the problem is that you dont want to throw
the baby out with the bathwater. So really I think for my favorite topics
the neutrally is really lacking and radicals reign. this inspires more
radicals and causes a total lack of trust in wikipedia on the other side of
the POV. I have met people who think that wikipedia should be boycotted
because they are seen to be supporting one side of the argument, and this
is just because no one has the time to deal with the large number of
organized radicals. I try to tell them that they can also get involved and
make things better, but my personal experience in the wikihounding has also
made me lose all interest in continued editing on some topics. How can I in
good faith ask a total noob to walk in the lions den?
RANT END


thanks,
mike


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dgerard at gmail

Apr 18, 2012, 3:44 AM

Post #7 of 21 (327 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

On 18 April 2012 09:53, Mike Dupont <jamesmikedupont [at] googlemail> wrote:

> Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia
> http://www.businessinsider.com/norwegian-terrorist-anders-breivik-my-biggest-influence-was-wikipedia-2012-4#ixzz1sN3LZci6


The word "influence" appears to have been a journalist's invention and
not something said by Breivik during the trial.


- d.

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michaeldavid86 at comcast

Apr 18, 2012, 5:55 AM

Post #8 of 21 (323 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

on 4/18/12 4:53 AM, Mike Dupont at jamesmikedupont [at] googlemail wrote:

> this just in, scary.
>
> Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia
> http://www.businessinsider.com/norwegian-terrorist-anders-breivik-my-biggest-i
> nfluence-was-wikipedia-2012-4#ixzz1sN3LZci6

Unless he expanded on his statement, which isn't in the posted clip, his
"answer" could very well be a sarcastic non-answer to an entity he believes
has neither credibility nor authority over him.

Marc Riddell



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morton.thomas at googlemail

Apr 18, 2012, 6:05 AM

Post #9 of 21 (324 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

On 18 April 2012 13:55, Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 [at] comcast> wrote:

> on 4/18/12 4:53 AM, Mike Dupont at jamesmikedupont [at] googlemail wrote:
>
> > this just in, scary.
> >
> > Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia
> >
> http://www.businessinsider.com/norwegian-terrorist-anders-breivik-my-biggest-i
> > nfluence-was-wikipedia-2012-4#ixzz1sN3LZci6
>
> Unless he expanded on his statement, which isn't in the posted clip, his
> "answer" could very well be a sarcastic non-answer to an entity he believes
> has neither credibility nor authority over him.
>
> Marc Riddell


It's my understanding that what he said is that Wikipedia was venue he used
for researching his ideology.

At the end of the day Wikipedia is full of right wing material - because it
is a part of history/culture and we have to record it (neutrally). It is
entirely possible to take that material and use it to build a world view.

This is what people do anyway.

We simply have to be accepting of the fact that, while our intent might be
to spread a more inclusive society by opening up knowledge to the masses,
there is a portion of the population who will form views we find abhorrent.

Tom
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michaeldavid86 at comcast

Apr 18, 2012, 6:24 AM

Post #10 of 21 (326 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

>> on 4/18/12 4:53 AM, Mike Dupont at jamesmikedupont [at] googlemail wrote:
>>
>>> this just in, scary.
>>>
>>> Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia
>>>
>>
http://www.businessinsider.com/norwegian-terrorist-anders-breivik-my-biggest
->> i
>>> nfluence-was-wikipedia-2012-4#ixzz1sN3LZci6

On 18 April 2012 13:55, Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 [at] comcast> wrote:
>>
>> Unless he expanded on his statement, which isn't in the posted clip, his
>> "answer" could very well be a sarcastic non-answer to an entity he believes
>> has neither credibility nor authority over him.
>>
>> Marc Riddell
>
>
> It's my understanding that what he said is that Wikipedia was venue he used
> for researching his ideology.
>
> At the end of the day Wikipedia is full of right wing material - because it
> is a part of history/culture and we have to record it (neutrally). It is
> entirely possible to take that material and use it to build a world view.
>
> This is what people do anyway.
>
> We simply have to be accepting of the fact that, while our intent might be
> to spread a more inclusive society by opening up knowledge to the masses,
> there is a portion of the population who will form views we find abhorrent.
>
I agree with you, Thomas, that some persons are going to use - or twist -
facts to support their own, already-established views.

I also agree with Mike that the growing size and complexity of the
Encyclopedia needs stronger and more objective oversight.

Marc


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jamesmikedupont at googlemail

Apr 18, 2012, 6:35 AM

Post #11 of 21 (321 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

Thanks, for that, I really dont want to only talk about my personal pet
peeves here, but make the case that we have a huge backlog of disputes that
are not really being looked into.

My vision is a conflict resolution system somewhat like a court system with
a hearing, jury and judge. From that view, wp has a huge backlog of open
cases.

mike


On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 [at] comcast>wrote:

> I also agree with Mike that the growing size and complexity of the
> Encyclopedia needs stronger and more objective oversight.
>



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faenwp at gmail

Apr 18, 2012, 6:40 AM

Post #12 of 21 (318 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

I find this context upsetting regardless of the points being raised.

My personal request for any reader of this email thread, is that if
there are any changes you would like to see on Wikipedia or other
Wikimedia projects, please don't use anything that this monster says
as a reason for action. It would be a terrible starting point and
taint any discussion.

Nothing he has to say has any chance of being notable or rational
enough for us to concern ourselves about. I look forward to him being
permanently locked away from society and we can turn our backs and
move on.

Thanks,
Fae
--
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http://enwp.org/user:Fae/events

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jamesmikedupont at googlemail

Apr 18, 2012, 6:44 AM

Post #13 of 21 (320 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

Yes, I also found it upsetting, but I decided to bring this topic up as
someone had sent it to me,
and thought that it is better that we know about what is going on before it
hits us and we dont know about it.

On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Fae <faenwp [at] gmail> wrote:

> I find this context upsetting regardless of the points being raised.




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faenwp at gmail

Apr 18, 2012, 6:49 AM

Post #14 of 21 (320 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

On 18 April 2012 14:44, Mike Dupont <jamesmikedupont [at] googlemail> wrote:
> Yes, I also found it upsetting, but I decided to bring this topic up as
> someone had sent it to me,
> and thought that it is better that we know about what is going on before it
> hits us and we dont know about it.

I'm not having a poke at you Mike, I agree we should note it as
possibly newsworthy and be prepared for questions that might arise. I
just would prefer that this not be a launch pad for change or
tangential discussions.

Thanks,
Fae

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jamesmikedupont at googlemail

Apr 18, 2012, 6:54 AM

Post #15 of 21 (317 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Fae <faenwp [at] gmail> wrote:

> I just would prefer that this not be a launch pad for change or
> tangential discussions.
>
> fair enough! lets keep it that way. We dont want to give that
madman Breivik more influence that he has.
mike
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hans.a.rosbach at gmail

Apr 18, 2012, 6:55 AM

Post #16 of 21 (321 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

You can find the live reporting in the Norwegian newspaper VG here:
https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/22-juli/rettssaken/artikkel.php?artid=10065284

I found the google translate result of the relevant portion to be readable.
Search for
*Aktor Inga Bejer-Engh: Men du, nr du snakker om 15.000 timer. Hva regner
du inn der da? Hva slags type lesning eller informasjonsinnhenting er det
du trekker inn? *
in the document. The context is his lack of formal education.

Hans A. Rosbach



On 18 April 2012 15:44, Mike Dupont <jamesmikedupont [at] googlemail> wrote:

> Yes, I also found it upsetting, but I decided to bring this topic up as
> someone had sent it to me,
> and thought that it is better that we know about what is going on before it
> hits us and we dont know about it.
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Fae <faenwp [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> > I find this context upsetting regardless of the points being raised.
>
>
>
>
> --
> James Michael DuPont
> Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
> _______________________________________________
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>
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jayen466 at gmail

Apr 18, 2012, 7:04 AM

Post #17 of 21 (321 views)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

People like Breivik who have a desire to promote fringe views turn up to
edit Wikipedia in droves. I would not be surprised if he had an account,
like Bedell before him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Pentagon_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/JPatrickBedell

A.
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brevlistor at gmail

Apr 18, 2012, 7:14 AM

Post #18 of 21 (322 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

2012/4/18 Hans A. Rosbach <hans.a.rosbach [at] gmail>:
> You can find the live reporting in the Norwegian newspaper VG here:
> https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/22-juli/rettssaken/artikkel.php?artid=10065284

So basically, he's interested in history and the history of religion,
among other subjects. He claims to have spent 15.000 hours reading
about them, gathering information from a multitude of sources, among
them Wikipedia. Hardly something that truly merits "Wikipedia made me
do it" headlines.

//Johan Jnsson
--
http://johanjonsson.net/wikipedia

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jayen466 at gmail

Apr 18, 2012, 10:16 AM

Post #19 of 21 (326 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Andreas Kolbe <jayen466 [at] gmail> wrote:

> People like Breivik who have a desire to promote fringe views turn up to
> edit Wikipedia in droves. I would not be surprised if he had an account,
> like Bedell before him.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Pentagon_shooting
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/JPatrickBedell
>

According to this article

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/rogaland/1.8045907

Breivik was indeed a contributor, to the Norwegian Wikipedia at least. And
he specifically mentioned Wikipedia in his manifesto as a vital propaganda
tool, saying:

"The European resistance movement must prioritize contributions to
Wikipedia, as a general method to introduce our worldview, our political
doctrines and our definition of history. Wikipedia should not be
underestimated as the primary source to create "established truths". We
must strive to present our views in the most favorable way, while we put
our enemies into disrepute. It is a venue we have to focus on."

In court, he specifically praised the content of the English Wikipedia,
according to Guardian reporter Helen Pidd. He apparently said that much of
his "learning" comes from Wikipedia and that "The English articles there
contain a lot of information".

Andreas
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saintonge at telus

Apr 18, 2012, 12:25 PM

Post #20 of 21 (320 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

On 04/18/12 6:54 AM, Mike Dupont wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Fae<faenwp [at] gmail> wrote:
>> I just would prefer that this not be a launch pad for change or
>> tangential discussions.
>>
>> fair enough! lets keep it that way. We dont want to give that
> madman Breivik more influence that he has.
>

The influence that people like Breivik have is nourished by feeding trolls.

We have no control over how any individual may choose to [mis]interpret
any article that he reads. Try as we may to choose our neutralities,
there will always be someone to see it differently.

Ray

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cimonavaro at gmail

Apr 20, 2012, 8:58 AM

Post #21 of 21 (298 views)
Permalink
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Breivik: My Biggest Influence Was Wikipedia [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Ray Saintonge <saintonge [at] telus> wrote:
> On 04/18/12 6:54 AM, Mike Dupont wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Fae<faenwp [at] gmail> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just would prefer that this not be a launch pad for change or
>>> tangential discussions.
>>>
>>> fair enough! lets keep it that way. We dont want to give that
>>
>> madman Breivik more influence that he has.
>>
>
> The influence that people like Breivik have is nourished by feeding trolls.
>
> We have no control over how any individual may choose to [mis]interpret any
> article that he reads. Try as we may to choose our neutralities, there will
> always be someone to see it differently.
>

Sadly, he has a point. There are definite crusaders on the English Language
wikipedia, trying to keep it from acknowledging outside of europe influences.
Check the talk page for the list of oldest universities in the world.

Or check the article on Catalan Numbers. There is a sentence that baldly
claims Catalan Numbers were "invented here", and then there is a weasel
worded statement noting that evidence exists that Chinese Mathematicians
knew and used them.

--
--
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]

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