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Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Stopping the presses:, , Britannica to stop printing books

 

 

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robin at slmr

Mar 21, 2012, 9:40 AM

Post #1 of 4 (161 views)
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Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Stopping the presses:, , Britannica to stop printing books

This is an excellent idea - a kind of searchable sandbox where articles
could eventually be promoted into the main site or simply used as in
depth backing for a Wikipedia One article. It would need to have some
high level sort mechanism to make it easier to access articles within a
geopolitical area or niche focal point just to make it possible to
disambiguate persons with the same name or the various flavors of
engineering or architecture. Perhaps it could also serve as a beta test
bed for Wikimedia software development.

But what to call it? Wikipedia2 doesn't have much flavor.
WikipediaLocalized? WikiDetails? WikipediaExpanded? WikipediaSuppliment?

On 3/20/2012 5:24 PM, foundation-l-request [at] lists wrote:
> From: David Goodman<dggenwp [at] gmail>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l [at] lists>
> Cc:rm [at] slmr
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] [WikiEN-l] Stopping the presses:,
> Britannica to stop printing books
> Message-ID:
> <CANiz0h18gYRkY79jAWZzSKuaeWd8RtWDc6mZtun_y+66D7pSbw [at] mail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> For English, and other languages also:
>
> What I suggest is a '''Wikipedia Two'' - an encyclopedia supplement
> where the standard of notability is much relaxed, but which will be
> different from Wikia by still requiring Verifiability and NPOV. It
> would include the lower levels of barely notable articles in
> Wikipedia, and a good deal of what we do not let in.
>
> It would for example include both high schools and elementary schools.
> It would include college athletes. It would include political
> candidates. It would include neighborhood businesses, and fire
> departments. It would include individual asteroids. It would include
> streets--and also villages. It would include ever ball game in a
> season. It would include anyone who had a credited role in a film,
> or any named character in one--both the ones we currently leave out,
> and the ones we put in.
>
> This should satisfy both the inclusionists and the deletionists. The
> deletionists would have this material out of Wikipedia, the
> inclusionists would have it not rejected. Newcomers would have an open
> and accepting place for a initial experience.
>
> But it would be interesting to see the results of a search option:
> Do you want to see everything (WP+WP2), or only the really notable (WP)?
> Anyone care to guess which people would choose?
>

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richard.symonds at wikimedia

Mar 21, 2012, 9:46 AM

Post #2 of 4 (156 views)
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Re: Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Stopping the presses:, , Britannica to stop printing books [In reply to]

Why do we need a seperate Wikipedia project for this? Surely userspace
drafts are acceptable, they just need 'mainstreaming'...

Richard Symonds
Office& Development Manager
Wikimedia UK
+44 (0) 207 065 0992
--
Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited, a Charitable Company
Registered in England and Wales, No: 6741827. Charity No:1144513 Office: 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street,
London EC2A 4LT.
Wikimedia UK is the local chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent non-profit
organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for
its contents.


On 21/03/2012 16:40, Robin McCain wrote:
> This is an excellent idea - a kind of searchable sandbox where
> articles could eventually be promoted into the main site or simply
> used as in depth backing for a Wikipedia One article. It would need to
> have some high level sort mechanism to make it easier to access
> articles within a geopolitical area or niche focal point just to make
> it possible to disambiguate persons with the same name or the various
> flavors of engineering or architecture. Perhaps it could also serve as
> a beta test bed for Wikimedia software development.
>
> But what to call it? Wikipedia2 doesn't have much flavor.
> WikipediaLocalized? WikiDetails? WikipediaExpanded? WikipediaSuppliment?
>
> On 3/20/2012 5:24 PM, foundation-l-request [at] lists wrote:
>> From: David Goodman<dggenwp [at] gmail>
>> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>> <foundation-l [at] lists>
>> Cc:rm [at] slmr
>> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] [WikiEN-l] Stopping the presses:,
>> Britannica to stop printing books
>> Message-ID:
>> <CANiz0h18gYRkY79jAWZzSKuaeWd8RtWDc6mZtun_y+66D7pSbw [at] mail>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> For English, and other languages also:
>>
>> What I suggest is a '''Wikipedia Two'' - an encyclopedia supplement
>> where the standard of notability is much relaxed, but which will be
>> different from Wikia by still requiring Verifiability and NPOV. It
>> would include the lower levels of barely notable articles in
>> Wikipedia, and a good deal of what we do not let in.
>>
>> It would for example include both high schools and elementary schools.
>> It would include college athletes. It would include political
>> candidates. It would include neighborhood businesses, and fire
>> departments. It would include individual asteroids. It would include
>> streets--and also villages. It would include ever ball game in a
>> season. It would include anyone who had a credited role in a film,
>> or any named character in one--both the ones we currently leave out,
>> and the ones we put in.
>>
>> This should satisfy both the inclusionists and the deletionists. The
>> deletionists would have this material out of Wikipedia, the
>> inclusionists would have it not rejected. Newcomers would have an open
>> and accepting place for a initial experience.
>>
>> But it would be interesting to see the results of a search option:
>> Do you want to see everything (WP+WP2), or only the really notable (WP)?
>> Anyone care to guess which people would choose?
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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kim at bruning

Mar 21, 2012, 2:57 PM

Post #3 of 4 (157 views)
Permalink
Re: Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Stopping the presses:, , Britannica to stop printing books [In reply to]

> But what to call it? Wikipedia2 doesn't have much flavor.
> WikipediaLocalized? WikiDetails? WikipediaExpanded? WikipediaSuppliment?
>
> On 3/20/2012 5:24 PM, foundation-l-request [at] lists wrote:
> > From: David Goodman<dggenwp [at] gmail>
> > What I suggest is a '''Wikipedia Two'' - an encyclopedia supplement
> > where the standard of notability is much relaxed, but which will be
> > different from Wikia by still requiring Verifiability and NPOV. It
> > would include the lower levels of barely notable articles in
> > Wikipedia, and a good deal of what we do not let in.

> > But it would be interesting to see the results of a search option:
> > Do you want to see everything (WP+WP2), or only the really notable (WP)?
> > Anyone care to guess which people would choose?

Ha! I'd choose Wikipedia2 anyday! ;-) (my favorite articles keep getting
deleted from wikipedia. How's that useful to anyone?)

Notability was originally a stopgap for verifiability IIRC. It's gone off
the rails imo.

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 09:40:20AM -0700, Robin McCain wrote:
> This is an excellent idea - a kind of searchable sandbox where articles
> could eventually be promoted into the main site or simply used as in
> depth backing for a Wikipedia One article.

I'm thinking wikipedia needs a reboot anyway. We'll probably end up
with a replay of wikipedia/nupedia if we reboot a wp2 with tidied up and
streamlined "policy" (redesign as a pattern language), integrated
Prod/AFD, deprecated arbcom in favor of DRN, and most importantly:
ensuring new users all get mentors.

Acculturation failure has severely harmed WP1, we need some way to
bring experienced and inexperienced users together reliably. This is
the simplest and best way to retain editors. :-)

sincerely,
Kim Bruning



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richard.symonds at wikimedia

Mar 22, 2012, 6:18 AM

Post #4 of 4 (157 views)
Permalink
Re: Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Stopping the presses:, , Britannica to stop printing books [In reply to]

Personal view:
Nice idea, and would certainly be popular with the arbitrators - but it
needs something to replace it that's slightly more complex than a
dispute resolution noticeboard. It's nice to see the WMF taking over
some of the more unpleasant roles that ArbCom does, but we then have no
real way of desysopping someone, no centralised way of vetting
checkusers or recording alternate accounts, and no way to deal with
problems that involve private information. There's also the problem that
DRNs tend to end up like ANI after a while, and ANI sometimes has
trouble solving problems in an even-handed, considered manner.

Richard Symonds


On 21/03/2012 21:57, Kim Bruning wrote:
> deprecated arbcom

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