Mailing List Archive: Wikipedia: Foundation

Copyright and cakes...

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richard.symonds at wikimedia

Mar 5, 2012, 6:54 AM

Post #1 of 13 (256 views)
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Copyright and cakes...

Silly question for you all:

Is http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_cake.jpg actually
copyrighted to the WMF as a WMF logo? The cake was made for Wikimedia
UK, so it's technically a derivative work, perhaps...

Any ideas what the copyright status of this should be? Does the author
(Jezhotwells) have the ability to release it under a free licence, if
s/he wishes?

Richard Symonds
Office& Development Manager
Wikimedia UK
+44 (0) 207 065 0992
--
Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited, a Charitable Company
Registered in England and Wales, No: 6741827. Charity No:1144513 Office: 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street,
London EC2A 4LT.
Wikimedia UK is the local chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent non-profit
organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for
its contents.

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lodewijk at effeietsanders

Mar 5, 2012, 7:03 AM

Post #2 of 13 (247 views)
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Re: Copyright and cakes... [In reply to]

The cake designer can only release his/her part of the creative process
under a free license (baking the cake/making the photo). I would suggest to
just specifiy that the logo-part is copyright WMF, the photographic and
cake-baking component to be released under CC-BY (not -SA to avoid the SA
clause to make things complicated). That way everyone with permission of
the WMF can reuse the design if wanted.

Lodewijk

No dia 5 de Março de 2012 15:54, Richard Symonds <
richard.symonds [at] wikimedia> escreveu:

> Silly question for you all:
>
> Is http://commons.wikimedia.org/**wiki/File:Wikimedia_cake.jpg<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_cake.jpg>actually copyrighted to the WMF as a WMF logo? The cake was made for
> Wikimedia UK, so it's technically a derivative work, perhaps...
>
> Any ideas what the copyright status of this should be? Does the author
> (Jezhotwells) have the ability to release it under a free licence, if s/he
> wishes?
>
> Richard Symonds
> Office& Development Manager
> Wikimedia UK
> +44 (0) 207 065 0992
> --
> Wikimedia UK is the operating name of Wiki UK Limited, a Charitable Company
> Registered in England and Wales, No: 6741827. Charity No:1144513 Office:
> 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street,
> London EC2A 4LT.
> Wikimedia UK is the local chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
> Wikipedia, amongst other projects). It is an independent non-profit
> organization with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for
> its contents.
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists**org <foundation-l [at] lists>
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/foundation-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l>
>
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geniice at gmail

Mar 5, 2012, 12:22 PM

Post #3 of 13 (241 views)
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Re: Copyright and cakes... [In reply to]

On 5 March 2012 14:54, Richard Symonds <richard.symonds [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> Silly question for you all:
>
> Is http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_cake.jpg actually
> copyrighted to the WMF as a WMF logo? The cake was made for Wikimedia UK, so
> it's technically a derivative work, perhaps...

Its a derivative work. Technically the cake is a copyvio.

> Any ideas what the copyright status of this should be?

The one it is tagged under is about as close as commons could get.

> Does the author
> (Jezhotwells) have the ability to release it under a free licence, if s/he
> wishes?

No but if they put it on permanent display in a public place the photo
would probably be totally fine under UK freedom of panorama law.

--
geni

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chriskeatingwiki at gmail

Mar 5, 2012, 12:40 PM

Post #4 of 13 (239 views)
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Re: Copyright and cakes... [In reply to]

>
>
>
> > Does the author
> > (Jezhotwells) have the ability to release it under a free licence, if
> s/he
> > wishes?
>
> No but if they put it on permanent display in a public place the photo
> would probably be totally fine under UK freedom of panorama law.

I suspect a court would hold that the set of "cakes" is disjoint from the
set of "objects on permanent display", and thus that a photograph of cake
can never benefit from freedom of panorama.

#nomnomnomnomnom

Chris
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thomas.dalton at gmail

Mar 5, 2012, 12:42 PM

Post #5 of 13 (240 views)
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Re: Copyright and cakes... [In reply to]

On 5 March 2012 20:22, geni <geniice [at] gmail> wrote:
> On 5 March 2012 14:54, Richard Symonds <richard.symonds [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>> Silly question for you all:
>>
>> Is http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_cake.jpg actually
>> copyrighted to the WMF as a WMF logo? The cake was made for Wikimedia UK, so
>> it's technically a derivative work, perhaps...
>
> Its a derivative work. Technically the cake is a copyvio.

It was made for WMUK and WMUK has standing permission to use the logo
for certain purposes, which could probably be interpreted as including
cakes. Therefore, I don't think the cake is a copyvio.

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coldchrist at gmail

Mar 5, 2012, 12:45 PM

Post #6 of 13 (239 views)
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Re: Copyright and cakes... [In reply to]

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Chris Keating <chriskeatingwiki [at] gmail>wrote:

> I suspect a court would hold that the set of "cakes" is disjoint from the
> set of "objects on permanent display", and thus that a photograph of cake
> can never benefit from freedom of panorama.
>

You mean we can't have the cake and eat it too?

Mike
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chriskeatingwiki at gmail

Mar 5, 2012, 12:55 PM

Post #7 of 13 (241 views)
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Re: Copyright and cakes... [In reply to]

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Mike Christie <coldchrist [at] gmail> wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Chris Keating <chriskeatingwiki [at] gmail
> >wrote:
>
> > I suspect a court would hold that the set of "cakes" is disjoint from the
> > set of "objects on permanent display", and thus that a photograph of cake
> > can never benefit from freedom of panorama.
> >
>
> You mean we can't have the cake and eat it too?

That's another corollary ;-)
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geniice at gmail

Mar 5, 2012, 2:07 PM

Post #8 of 13 (239 views)
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Re: Copyright and cakes... [In reply to]

On 5 March 2012 20:40, Chris Keating <chriskeatingwiki [at] gmail> wrote:
> I suspect a court would hold that the set of "cakes" is disjoint from the
> set of "objects on permanent display", and thus that a photograph of cake
> can never benefit from freedom of panorama.

Well you say that but slices of Charles and Diana's wedding cake have
turned up at auction as recently as 2008.

--
geni

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dgerard at gmail

Mar 5, 2012, 2:08 PM

Post #9 of 13 (239 views)
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Re: Copyright and cakes... [In reply to]

On 5 March 2012 22:07, geni <geniice [at] gmail> wrote:
> On 5 March 2012 20:40, Chris Keating <chriskeatingwiki [at] gmail> wrote:

>> I suspect a court would hold that the set of "cakes" is disjoint from the
>> set of "objects on permanent display", and thus that a photograph of cake
>> can never benefit from freedom of panorama.

> Well you say that but slices of Charles and Diana's wedding cake have
> turned up at auction as recently as 2008.

I wonder how many cakes you would have if you assembled all the fragments.

- d.

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lodewijk at effeietsanders

Mar 5, 2012, 3:14 PM

Post #10 of 13 (240 views)
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Re: Copyright and cakes... [In reply to]

eating the cake would damage the moral rights of the logo author. Since he
cannot give general permission to violate moral rights, eating the cake
would be illegal.

No dia 5 de Março de 2012 23:08, David Gerard <dgerard [at] gmail> escreveu:

> On 5 March 2012 22:07, geni <geniice [at] gmail> wrote:
> > On 5 March 2012 20:40, Chris Keating <chriskeatingwiki [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> >> I suspect a court would hold that the set of "cakes" is disjoint from
> the
> >> set of "objects on permanent display", and thus that a photograph of
> cake
> >> can never benefit from freedom of panorama.
>
> > Well you say that but slices of Charles and Diana's wedding cake have
> > turned up at auction as recently as 2008.
>
>
> I wonder how many cakes you would have if you assembled all the fragments.
>
>
> - d.
>
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thomas.dalton at gmail

Mar 5, 2012, 3:23 PM

Post #11 of 13 (239 views)
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Re: Copyright and cakes... [In reply to]

On 5 March 2012 23:14, Lodewijk <lodewijk [at] effeietsanders> wrote:
> eating the cake would damage the moral rights of the logo author. Since he
> cannot give general permission to violate moral rights, eating the cake
> would be illegal.

If you take a slice out of the cake, that could be an issue since you
have created a new work that negatively portrays the logo. I think the
only option is the eat the entire cake at once.

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michael.peel at wikimedia

Mar 5, 2012, 3:30 PM

Post #12 of 13 (240 views)
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Re: Copyright and cakes... [In reply to]

Best all around to simply destroy the evidence (by eating it?).

... can this topic end now? Or be moved on-wiki so that it can be filed under WP:SILLY?

Thanks,
Mike

On 5 Mar 2012, at 23:23, Thomas Dalton wrote:

> On 5 March 2012 23:14, Lodewijk <lodewijk [at] effeietsanders> wrote:
>> eating the cake would damage the moral rights of the logo author. Since he
>> cannot give general permission to violate moral rights, eating the cake
>> would be illegal.
>
> If you take a slice out of the cake, that could be an issue since you
> have created a new work that negatively portrays the logo. I think the
> only option is the eat the entire cake at once.
>
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coldchrist at gmail

Mar 5, 2012, 4:19 PM

Post #13 of 13 (240 views)
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Re: Copyright and cakes... [In reply to]

You're right, the topic is done. Filing it under WP:SILLY would be the
icing on the cake.

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 6:30 PM, Michael Peel
<michael.peel [at] wikimedia>wrote:

> Best all around to simply destroy the evidence (by eating it?).
>
> ... can this topic end now? Or be moved on-wiki so that it can be filed
> under WP:SILLY?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> On 5 Mar 2012, at 23:23, Thomas Dalton wrote:
>
> > On 5 March 2012 23:14, Lodewijk <lodewijk [at] effeietsanders> wrote:
> >> eating the cake would damage the moral rights of the logo author. Since
> he
> >> cannot give general permission to violate moral rights, eating the cake
> >> would be illegal.
> >
> > If you take a slice out of the cake, that could be an issue since you
> > have created a new work that negatively portrays the logo. I think the
> > only option is the eat the entire cake at once.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l [at] lists
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
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