Mailing List Archive: Wikipedia: Foundation

Office hours

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cary at wikimedia

Sep 28, 2009, 2:38 PM

Post #1 of 22 (1341 views)
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Office hours

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It seems that I've gotten complaints that both sets of office hours
times are difficult for Europeans. However, in the interest of having
the broadest participation possible, I'm interested to know how people
feel about one of the following:

1) Have the Friday office hours one hour earlier (from 21:30-22:30 UTC)
2) Have the Thursday office hours one hour later (from 17:00-18:00 UTC)
3) Keep two sets of office hours the same, we cannot please everyone
possible!

- --

Cary Bass
Volunteer Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
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beesley at gmail

Sep 28, 2009, 3:02 PM

Post #2 of 22 (1276 views)
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Re: Office hours [In reply to]

> 1) Have the Friday office hours one hour earlier (from 21:30-22:30 UTC)
> 2) Have the Thursday office hours one hour later (from 17:00-18:00 UTC)
> 3) Keep two sets of office hours the same, we cannot please everyone
> possible!

If you make the Friday one earlier, it becomes more inaccessible to
people in Asia and Western Australia who will likely be sleeping
through the Thursday one.

What about making both of them a couple of hours later?

Angela

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effeietsanders at gmail

Sep 28, 2009, 5:23 PM

Post #3 of 22 (1276 views)
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Re: Office hours [In reply to]

I think having the thursday meeting one or two more hours later would work
fine for Europe, so if that works also better for Australia... Not sure
about the Friday one, although the next day is weekend. 2130 UTC sounds like
a good time though.

2009/9/29 Angela <beesley [at] gmail>

> > 1) Have the Friday office hours one hour earlier (from 21:30-22:30 UTC)
> > 2) Have the Thursday office hours one hour later (from 17:00-18:00 UTC)
> > 3) Keep two sets of office hours the same, we cannot please everyone
> > possible!
>
> If you make the Friday one earlier, it becomes more inaccessible to
> people in Asia and Western Australia who will likely be sleeping
> through the Thursday one.
>
> What about making both of them a couple of hours later?
>
> Angela
>
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thomas.dalton at gmail

Sep 28, 2009, 5:33 PM

Post #4 of 22 (1278 views)
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Re: Office hours [In reply to]

2009/9/29 effe iets anders <effeietsanders [at] gmail>:
> I think having the thursday meeting one or two more hours later would work
> fine for Europe, so if that works also better for Australia... Not sure
> about the Friday one, although the next day is weekend. 2130 UTC sounds like
> a good time though.

2130 UTC sounds a little late to me if we want Europeans there. We're
on daylight saving time for another month (ish), so in Western Europe,
that is 2330, finishing at 0030. That's pretty late.

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effeietsanders at gmail

Sep 28, 2009, 5:40 PM

Post #5 of 22 (1284 views)
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Re: Office hours [In reply to]

on a friday? :S

2009/9/29 Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton [at] gmail>

> 2009/9/29 effe iets anders <effeietsanders [at] gmail>:
> > I think having the thursday meeting one or two more hours later would
> work
> > fine for Europe, so if that works also better for Australia... Not sure
> > about the Friday one, although the next day is weekend. 2130 UTC sounds
> like
> > a good time though.
>
> 2130 UTC sounds a little late to me if we want Europeans there. We're
> on daylight saving time for another month (ish), so in Western Europe,
> that is 2330, finishing at 0030. That's pretty late.
>
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beesley at gmail

Sep 28, 2009, 8:07 PM

Post #6 of 22 (1281 views)
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Re: Office hours [In reply to]

>> 2130 UTC sounds a little late to me if we want Europeans there. We're
>> on daylight saving time for another month (ish), so in Western Europe,
>> that is 2330, finishing at 0030. That's pretty late.

I thought the idea of having two meetings is that at least one would
work, not both. So, the European meeting is on Thursdays at the
earlier time.

Angela

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geo.plrd at yahoo

Sep 28, 2009, 9:12 PM

Post #7 of 22 (1297 views)
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Re: Office hours [In reply to]

Best option would be to have two sets, one for Europe and one for the Americas.

________________________________
From: Cary Bass <cary [at] wikimedia>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l [at] lists>
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 2:38:12 PM
Subject: [Foundation-l] Office hours

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Hash: SHA1

It seems that I've gotten complaints that both sets of office hours
times are difficult for Europeans. However, in the interest of having
the broadest participation possible, I'm interested to know how people
feel about one of the following:

1) Have the Friday office hours one hour earlier (from 21:30-22:30 UTC)
2) Have the Thursday office hours one hour later (from 17:00-18:00 UTC)
3) Keep two sets of office hours the same, we cannot please everyone
possible!

- --

Cary Bass
Volunteer Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
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thomas.dalton at gmail

Sep 29, 2009, 8:11 AM

Post #8 of 22 (1264 views)
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Re: Office hours [In reply to]

2009/9/29 Angela <beesley [at] gmail>:
>>> 2130 UTC sounds a little late to me if we want Europeans there. We're
>>> on daylight saving time for another month (ish), so in Western Europe,
>>> that is 2330, finishing at 0030. That's pretty late.
>
> I thought the idea of having two meetings is that at least one would
> work, not both. So, the European meeting is on Thursdays at the
> earlier time.

Yes, but 2130UTC was proposed as a good time for Europeans. The
original time of 2230UTC is presumably better if Europeans aren't a
factor.

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waerth at asianet

Sep 30, 2009, 9:28 AM

Post #9 of 22 (1244 views)
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Re: Office hours [In reply to]

There are people living in Asia and Australia as well actually ... you
know! Oh wait they aren't "Western" people so why bother ......

W

> Best option would be to have two sets, one for Europe and one for the Americas.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Cary Bass <cary [at] wikimedia>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l [at] lists>
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 2:38:12 PM
> Subject: [Foundation-l] Office hours
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> It seems that I've gotten complaints that both sets of office hours
> times are difficult for Europeans. However, in the interest of having
> the broadest participation possible, I'm interested to know how people
> feel about one of the following:
>
> 1) Have the Friday office hours one hour earlier (from 21:30-22:30 UTC)
> 2) Have the Thursday office hours one hour later (from 17:00-18:00 UTC)
> 3) Keep two sets of office hours the same, we cannot please everyone
> possible!
>
> - --
>
> Cary Bass
> Volunteer Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkrBLMAACgkQyQg4JSymDYnDcgCePVl4xtOW9DyWPKr7GETgkd8B
> ElwAn3zXiBebDJSFySML11qxIAL4BYsp
> =uuz/
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
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>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>

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waerth at asianet

Sep 30, 2009, 9:30 AM

Post #10 of 22 (1246 views)
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Re: Office hours [In reply to]

Thomas Dalton wrote:
Hmmm 22.30 UTC is a shitty time for people in Asia and Australia as well
... but why bother about them. It is all about Europeans and Americans
isn't it?

W

> 2009/9/29 Angela <beesley [at] gmail>:
>
>>>> 2130 UTC sounds a little late to me if we want Europeans there. We're
>>>> on daylight saving time for another month (ish), so in Western Europe,
>>>> that is 2330, finishing at 0030. That's pretty late.
>>>>
>> I thought the idea of having two meetings is that at least one would
>> work, not both. So, the European meeting is on Thursdays at the
>> earlier time.
>>
>
> Yes, but 2130UTC was proposed as a good time for Europeans. The
> original time of 2230UTC is presumably better if Europeans aren't a
> factor.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
>

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thomas.dalton at gmail

Sep 30, 2009, 9:39 AM

Post #11 of 22 (1244 views)
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Re: Office hours [In reply to]

2009/9/30 Waerth <waerth [at] asianet>:
> There are people living in Asia and Australia as well actually ... you
> know! Oh wait they aren't "Western" people so why bother ......

I am well aware of the existence of Asia and Australia. I have been to
several Asian countries - I definitely remember seeing people there.
The time of 2130-2230 was proposed explicitly for the benefit of
Europeans (see Cary's first email in this thread), so I pointed out
that it actually doesn't work well for Europeans.

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liamwyatt at gmail

Sep 30, 2009, 7:02 PM

Post #12 of 22 (1232 views)
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Re: Office hours [In reply to]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 4:39 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton [at] gmail>wrote:

> 2009/9/30 Waerth <waerth [at] asianet>:
> > There are people living in Asia and Australia as well actually ... you
> > know! Oh wait they aren't "Western" people so why bother ......
>
> I am well aware of the existence of Asia and Australia. I have been to
> several Asian countries - I definitely remember seeing people there.
> The time of 2130-2230 was proposed explicitly for the benefit of
> Europeans (see Cary's first email in this thread), so I pointed out
> that it actually doesn't work well for Europeans.
>

I think it's fair to say that no matter what time is selected for anything
then it is going to be inconvenient for some people - that's just a fact.
Furthermore, what might be a good time of day or day of the week for one
person will not be a good time of day/day of week for another person (even
if they are in the same timezone).
Live with it.
I live in Australia and I've never been able to make it to an 'office hours'
sometimes because it's in the middle of the night sometimes because I'm at
work. But, that's my problem not the WMFs.

The WMF have already offered to do it at two timeslots and if these are
sufficiently different from each other then that's about all that can be
done. You're never going to be able to please everyone in this issue.

-Liam [[witty lama]]

wittylama.com/blog
Peace, love & metadata

>
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notafishz at gmail

Oct 1, 2009, 2:49 AM

Post #13 of 22 (1233 views)
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Re: Office hours [In reply to]

On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 04:02, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt [at] gmail> wrote:

> The WMF have already offered to do it at two timeslots and if these are
> sufficiently different from each other then that's about all that can be
> done. You're never going to be able to please everyone in this issue.

Agreed, but having two slots which are convenient for noone does not
really help :)

So I would suggest to have one slot convenient for Europeans/Africans,
one slot convenient for Asia/Oceania. Any of both will be convenient
for the US West Coast, which in turn should make it relatively OK for
the US East Coast and South America.

I think it was along those lines that Angela said to move both times later.

Delphine

--
~notafish

NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will
get lost.
Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive - http://blog.notanendive.org

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mateus.nobre at live

Nov 1, 2011, 12:58 PM

Post #14 of 22 (139 views)
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Re: Office Hours [In reply to]

Lost the first one, 'll attend now o/

_____________________
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30440865

> Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 19:15:52 +0000
> From: okeyes [at] wikimedia
> To: foundation-l [at] lists
> Subject: [Foundation-l] Office Hours
>
> Hey guys
>
> Brandon, Howie, Fabrice and I will be holding a second Office Hours session
> on the new Article Feedback Tool on Thursday 3 November. This will be at
> 24:00 UTC, which works out at 4pm PST and 11pm GMT. This timing is designed
> to allow east coast editors, who would be at work during the normal time
> periods, to attend. I hope to see you all there :).
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Oliver Keyes
> Community Liason, Product Development
> Wikimedia Foundation
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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bodnotbod at gmail

Nov 1, 2011, 1:06 PM

Post #15 of 22 (140 views)
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Re: Office Hours [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> Hey guys
>
> Brandon, Howie, Fabrice and I will be holding a second Office Hours session
> on the new Article Feedback Tool on Thursday 3 November. This will be at
> 24:00 UTC, which works out at 4pm PST and 11pm GMT. This timing is designed
> to allow east coast editors, who would be at work during the normal time
> periods, to attend. I hope to see you all there :).

Can you remind us of the channel and the link to the sitey thing? I've
forgotten where we go as I haven't done one of these for a while.

Freenode something or other, isn't it?

Bodnotbod

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mateus.nobre at live

Nov 1, 2011, 1:20 PM

Post #16 of 22 (138 views)
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Re: Office Hours [In reply to]

#wikimedia-office
I think :P

_____________________
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30440865

> From: bodnotbod [at] gmail
> Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 20:06:18 +0000
> To: foundation-l [at] lists
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Office Hours
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> > Hey guys
> >
> > Brandon, Howie, Fabrice and I will be holding a second Office Hours session
> > on the new Article Feedback Tool on Thursday 3 November. This will be at
> > 24:00 UTC, which works out at 4pm PST and 11pm GMT. This timing is designed
> > to allow east coast editors, who would be at work during the normal time
> > periods, to attend. I hope to see you all there :).
>
> Can you remind us of the channel and the link to the sitey thing? I've
> forgotten where we go as I haven't done one of these for a while.
>
> Freenode something or other, isn't it?
>
> Bodnotbod
>
> _______________________________________________
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tom at tommorris

Nov 1, 2011, 1:23 PM

Post #17 of 22 (138 views)
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Re: Office Hours [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 19:15, Oliver Keyes <okeyes [at] wikimedia> wrote:
> This will be at 24:00 UTC, which works out at 4pm PST and 11pm GMT.

Excuse the pedantry.

From Wikipedia...

"Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) is a term originally referring to mean
solar time at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London. It is
arguably the same as Coordinated Universal Time (UTC)"

"In the United Kingdom, GMT is the official time only during winter;
during summer British Summer Time is used."

I'm presuming you mean midnight on Thursday UTC/GMT.

--
Tom Morris
<http://tommorris.org/>

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z at mzmcbride

Nov 1, 2011, 6:19 PM

Post #18 of 22 (138 views)
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Re: Office Hours [In reply to]

Oliver Keyes wrote:
> Brandon, Howie, Fabrice and I will be holding a second Office Hours session
> on the new Article Feedback Tool on Thursday 3 November. This will be at
> 24:00 UTC, which works out at 4pm PST and 11pm GMT. This timing is designed
> to allow east coast editors, who would be at work during the normal time
> periods, to attend. I hope to see you all there :).

Using 00:00 or 24:00 is strongly discouraged (some people go so far as to
say that these times don't exist), as they create unnecessary confusion.
Please use 23:59 or 00:01 in the future. :-)

MZMcBride

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de10011 at gmail

Nov 1, 2011, 9:34 PM

Post #19 of 22 (129 views)
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Re: Office Hours [In reply to]

On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 12:45 AM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes [at] wikimedia> wrote:

> Hey guys
>
> Brandon, Howie, Fabrice and I will be holding a second Office Hours session
> on the new Article Feedback Tool on Thursday 3 November. This will be at
> 24:00 UTC, which works out at 4pm PST and 11pm GMT. This timing is designed
> to allow east coast editors, who would be at work during the normal time
> periods, to attend. I hope to see you all there :).
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Oliver Keyes
> Community Liason, Product Development
> Wikimedia Foundation
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

A relevant link might also help, something like this [
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours].

For other information like which channel, network, how to attend and what
time-zone that might translate into for the rest of us. ;)

Regards
Theo
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okeyes at wikimedia

Nov 2, 2011, 7:31 AM

Post #20 of 22 (128 views)
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Re: Office Hours [In reply to]

Duly noted ;p.

On 2 November 2011 04:34, Theo10011 <de10011 [at] gmail> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 12:45 AM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes [at] wikimedia>
> wrote:
>
> > Hey guys
> >
> > Brandon, Howie, Fabrice and I will be holding a second Office Hours
> session
> > on the new Article Feedback Tool on Thursday 3 November. This will be at
> > 24:00 UTC, which works out at 4pm PST and 11pm GMT. This timing is
> designed
> > to allow east coast editors, who would be at work during the normal time
> > periods, to attend. I hope to see you all there :).
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > --
> > Oliver Keyes
> > Community Liason, Product Development
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l [at] lists
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> A relevant link might also help, something like this [
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours].
>
> For other information like which channel, network, how to attend and what
> time-zone that might translate into for the rest of us. ;)
>
> Regards
> Theo
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
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>

--
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Community Liason, Product Development
Wikimedia Foundation
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okeyes at wikimedia

Nov 2, 2011, 11:45 AM

Post #21 of 22 (128 views)
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Re: Office Hours [In reply to]

So, to correct then - 23:59 UTC, which is 23:59 GMT and 4:59 UTC :P.

On 2 November 2011 14:31, Oliver Keyes <okeyes [at] wikimedia> wrote:

> Duly noted ;p.
>
>
> On 2 November 2011 04:34, Theo10011 <de10011 [at] gmail> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 12:45 AM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes [at] wikimedia>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hey guys
>> >
>> > Brandon, Howie, Fabrice and I will be holding a second Office Hours
>> session
>> > on the new Article Feedback Tool on Thursday 3 November. This will be at
>> > 24:00 UTC, which works out at 4pm PST and 11pm GMT. This timing is
>> designed
>> > to allow east coast editors, who would be at work during the normal time
>> > periods, to attend. I hope to see you all there :).
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > --
>> > Oliver Keyes
>> > Community Liason, Product Development
>> > Wikimedia Foundation
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > foundation-l mailing list
>> > foundation-l [at] lists
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>> >
>>
>> A relevant link might also help, something like this [
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours].
>>
>> For other information like which channel, network, how to attend and what
>> time-zone that might translate into for the rest of us. ;)
>>
>> Regards
>> Theo
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l [at] lists
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Oliver Keyes
> Community Liason, Product Development
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
>

--
Oliver Keyes
Community Liason, Product Development
Wikimedia Foundation
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okeyes at wikimedia

Nov 2, 2011, 3:10 PM

Post #22 of 22 (128 views)
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Re: Office Hours [In reply to]

4:59 PST, sorry. It's been a very, very long day.

On 2 November 2011 18:45, Oliver Keyes <okeyes [at] wikimedia> wrote:

> So, to correct then - 23:59 UTC, which is 23:59 GMT and 4:59 UTC :P.
>
>
> On 2 November 2011 14:31, Oliver Keyes <okeyes [at] wikimedia> wrote:
>
>> Duly noted ;p.
>>
>>
>> On 2 November 2011 04:34, Theo10011 <de10011 [at] gmail> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 12:45 AM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes [at] wikimedia>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hey guys
>>> >
>>> > Brandon, Howie, Fabrice and I will be holding a second Office Hours
>>> session
>>> > on the new Article Feedback Tool on Thursday 3 November. This will be
>>> at
>>> > 24:00 UTC, which works out at 4pm PST and 11pm GMT. This timing is
>>> designed
>>> > to allow east coast editors, who would be at work during the normal
>>> time
>>> > periods, to attend. I hope to see you all there :).
>>> >
>>> > Thanks
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Oliver Keyes
>>> > Community Liason, Product Development
>>> > Wikimedia Foundation
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > foundation-l mailing list
>>> > foundation-l [at] lists
>>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>> >
>>>
>>> A relevant link might also help, something like this [
>>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours].
>>>
>>> For other information like which channel, network, how to attend and what
>>> time-zone that might translate into for the rest of us. ;)
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Theo
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>> foundation-l [at] lists
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Oliver Keyes
>> Community Liason, Product Development
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Oliver Keyes
> Community Liason, Product Development
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
>

--
Oliver Keyes
Community Liason, Product Development
Wikimedia Foundation
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