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Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata

 

 

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email at mikepeel

Nov 22, 2010, 1:24 PM

Post #1 of 21 (3981 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata

(also including foundation-l as this isn't really a commons-specific discussion)

On 22 Nov 2010, at 21:04, Samuel Klein wrote:

>> A wikidata project could use semantic mediawiki from the outset, and
>> be seeded with data from dbpedia.
>>
>> A lot of existing & proposed projects would benefit from a centralised
>> wikidata project. e.g. a genealogy wiki could use the relationships
>> stored on the wikidata project. wikisource and commons could use the
>> central data wiki for their Author and Creator details.
>
> +1
>
> Could this be part of dbpedia?

dbpedia is about collating the information available on Wikipedia and providing that as a database for others to use. This is about having a central information store that can be edited to add information. Whilst dbpedia could seed wikidata, they're very different projects in the way they would operate.

In my opinion, the Wikimedia Foundation should very seriously look into starting something like wikidata. I don't suppose there's a facilitator that could be hired that knows about Wikimedia sufficiently to facilitate an on-wiki discussion and formation of a comprehensive proposal to start this project, including bringing together the various people interested in this project?

Mike Peel


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jayvdb at gmail

Nov 22, 2010, 2:31 PM

Post #2 of 21 (3915 views)
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Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Michael Peel <email [at] mikepeel> wrote:
>
>> Could this be part of dbpedia?
>
> dbpedia is about collating the information available on Wikipedia and providing that as a database for others to use. This is about having a central information store that can be edited to add information. Whilst dbpedia could seed wikidata, they're very different projects in the way they would operate.

I agree.

> In my opinion, the Wikimedia Foundation should very seriously look into starting something like wikidata. I don't suppose there's a facilitator that could be hired that knows about Wikimedia sufficiently to facilitate an on-wiki discussion and formation of a comprehensive proposal to start this project, including bringing together the various people interested in this project?

As it is the first new project in quite a long time, having a WMF
staff member assigned to it would be brilliant.
As this would/should involve the first deployment of semantic
mediawiki by WMF, it would be good for that someone to already
experienced with semantic medawiki.

--
John Vandenberg

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zanni.andrea84 at gmail

Nov 22, 2010, 3:06 PM

Post #3 of 21 (3920 views)
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Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

>
> As it is the first new project in quite a long time, having a WMF
> staff member assigned to it would be brilliant.
> As this would/should involve the first deployment of semantic
> mediawiki by WMF, it would be good for that someone to already
> experienced with semantic medawiki.
>
>
Agree. Starting using SMW for a brand new project for data
could solve all the issues that prevented it
to be used until now? Hope it could.
it would be extremely helpful for project like Commons and Wikisource
(just talking about data now)

Aubrey.
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brian.mingus at Colorado

Nov 22, 2010, 3:17 PM

Post #4 of 21 (3906 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andrea84 [at] gmail>wrote:

> >
> > As it is the first new project in quite a long time, having a WMF
> > staff member assigned to it would be brilliant.
> > As this would/should involve the first deployment of semantic
> > mediawiki by WMF, it would be good for that someone to already
> > experienced with semantic medawiki.
> >
> >
> Agree. Starting using SMW for a brand new project for data
> could solve all the issues that prevented it
> to be used until now? Hope it could.
> it would be extremely helpful for project like Commons and Wikisource
> (just talking about data now)
>
> Aubrey.


SMW would have to be completely redesigned for use in a project with
millions of pages and millions of attributes where arbitrary queries are
possible.

- Brian
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aude.wiki at gmail

Nov 22, 2010, 3:18 PM

Post #5 of 21 (3908 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 5:31 PM, John Vandenberg <jayvdb [at] gmail> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Michael Peel <email [at] mikepeel> wrote:
> >
> >> Could this be part of dbpedia?
> >
> > dbpedia is about collating the information available on Wikipedia and
> providing that as a database for others to use. This is about having a
> central information store that can be edited to add information. Whilst
> dbpedia could seed wikidata, they're very different projects in the way they
> would operate.
>
> I agree.
>
> > In my opinion, the Wikimedia Foundation should very seriously look into
> starting something like wikidata. I don't suppose there's a facilitator that
> could be hired that knows about Wikimedia sufficiently to facilitate an
> on-wiki discussion and formation of a comprehensive proposal to start this
> project, including bringing together the various people interested in this
> project?
>
>
+1 Definitely want to see this implemented for Wikimedia. We had a bunch
of related strategy proposals calling for us to do something like this:

http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:Data.wikimedia.org

http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:Data-driven_content

http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposal:Structured_Data

more...

We have our own data like coordinates that would be great to share across
projects. Seeing governments and organisations (e.g.
http://data.worldbank.org/, http://data.gov, http://data.gov.uk/ ...)
jumping in on doing *open* data, we have an opportunity make use of it for
infoboxes, charts, etc. Then, there's geodata from OpenStreetMap and
elsewhere...

-Katie (@aude)


> As it is the first new project in quite a long time, having a WMF
> staff member assigned to it would be brilliant.
> As this would/should involve the first deployment of semantic
> mediawiki by WMF, it would be good for that someone to already
> experienced with semantic medawiki.
>
> --
> John Vandenberg
>
> _______________________________________________
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email at mikepeel

Nov 22, 2010, 3:30 PM

Post #6 of 21 (3902 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

On 22 Nov 2010, at 23:17, Brian J Mingus wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andrea84 [at] gmail>wrote:
>
>>>
>>> As it is the first new project in quite a long time, having a WMF
>>> staff member assigned to it would be brilliant.
>>> As this would/should involve the first deployment of semantic
>>> mediawiki by WMF, it would be good for that someone to already
>>> experienced with semantic medawiki.
>>>
>>>
>> Agree. Starting using SMW for a brand new project for data
>> could solve all the issues that prevented it
>> to be used until now? Hope it could.
>> it would be extremely helpful for project like Commons and Wikisource
>> (just talking about data now)
>>
>> Aubrey.
>
>
> SMW would have to be completely redesigned for use in a project with
> millions of pages and millions of attributes where arbitrary queries are
> possible.

OK - a) why, b) how, c) is this feasible, d) is SMW the right way to go?

Mike


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jayvdb at gmail

Nov 22, 2010, 3:33 PM

Post #7 of 21 (3910 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Brian J Mingus
<brian.mingus [at] colorado> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andrea84 [at] gmail>wrote:
>
>> >
>> > As it is the first new project in quite a long time, having a WMF
>> > staff member assigned to it would be brilliant.
>> > As this would/should involve the first deployment of semantic
>> > mediawiki by WMF, it would be good for that someone to already
>> > experienced with semantic medawiki.
>> >
>> >
>> Agree. Starting using SMW for a brand new project for data
>> could solve all the issues that prevented it
>> to be used until now? Hope it could.
>> it would be extremely helpful for project like Commons and Wikisource
>> (just talking about data now)
>>
>> Aubrey.
>
>
> SMW would have to be completely redesigned for use in a project with
> millions of pages and millions of attributes where arbitrary queries are
> possible.

What limitations would be useful to get the project off the ground?

Some ideas:

The data project is initially only used/queried by Wikipedia projects,
and then cached on the Wikipedia side

The data project is initially limited to only geographic entities.

--
John Vandenberg

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garbage5 at seznam

Nov 24, 2010, 1:48 AM

Post #8 of 21 (3889 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

I too support the creation of Wikidata. Unfortunately, in the global decline of Wikimedia participation, even the Foundation is unable to help ignite a new valuable project that is desperately needed in order to bring in some new participation... sad situation. I wonder what the 50+ Foundation staffers are working on, if they are not able to help out little bit with such and important idea...

Kozuch

> ------------ Původní zpráva ------------
> Od: John Vandenberg <jayvdb [at] gmail>
> Předmět: Re: [Foundation-l] [Commons-l] Wikidata
> Datum: 23.11.2010 00:33:40
> ----------------------------------------
> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Brian J Mingus
> <brian.mingus [at] colorado> wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Andrea Zanni
> <zanni.andrea84 [at] gmail>wrote:
> >
> >> >
> >> > As it is the first new project in quite a long time, having a WMF
> >> > staff member assigned to it would be brilliant.
> >> > As this would/should involve the first deployment of semantic
> >> > mediawiki by WMF, it would be good for that someone to already
> >> > experienced with semantic medawiki.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Agree. Starting using SMW for a brand new project for data
> >> could solve all the issues that prevented it
> >> to be used until now? Hope it could.
> >> it would be extremely helpful for project like Commons and Wikisource
> >> (just talking about data now)
> >>
> >> Aubrey.
> >
> >
> > SMW would have to be completely redesigned for use in a project with
> > millions of pages and millions of attributes where arbitrary queries are
> > possible.
>
> What limitations would be useful to get the project off the ground?
>
> Some ideas:
>
> The data project is initially only used/queried by Wikipedia projects,
> and then cached on the Wikipedia side
>
> The data project is initially limited to only geographic entities.
>
> --
> John Vandenberg
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>

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erik at wikimedia

Nov 24, 2010, 11:25 AM

Post #9 of 21 (3890 views)
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Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

Hi all,

as you may know I've been involved in the structured data community
for a few years (through the original "Wikidata" proposal in 2004 as
well as architecting and developing OmegaWiki, together with the
OpenProgress team and others from 2005-2007). I've been following
Semantic MediaWiki, Freebase and other projects from the beginning.
You don't need to sell me on the value or importance of structured
data.

The problem space is very complex, especially when taking into account
that Wikimedia is a fully multilingual system. There are still low
hanging fruits, especially for a project like Wikimedia Commons, but I
agree w/ Michael that a more holistic approach to how to access and
manage data in WMF projects is much preferable to, for example,
throwing SMW into some wikis and not others, etc.

When I joined WMF, I couldn't justify arguing for higher priority on
data tech projects more so than, for example, the 2009-10 usability
initiative and continuing efforts in this area, especially given that
we still have only a tiny engineering staff. I don't believe that
structured data is going to be the principal driver of participation
-- that problem space is more about social and technical barriers to
entry, interaction with new users, mentoring, etc. And we're
continuing to fall behind the rest of the web in terms of usability.

That being said, it's clear that it's a key enabling technology
(including for _some_ usability improvements, although many of them
can be made without a full-fledged structured data support system). I
particularly think it has huge potential in bootstrapping small
languages by more closely interconnecting useful and translatable bits
of information (start a page about "Germany" in a new language and
immediately pull all relevant data, possibly including translations of
labels if available).

Danese and I have been working on a "Data Summit" this year to bring
together both the key players in the structured data field (DBPedia,
SMW, etc.), as well as some of the research and analytics community.
Unfortunately we've had to reschedule it, but it'll happen in Q1 2011.
We're not going to be able to dedicate lots of resources to
engineering in this area in the near future, but since there are
already so many disparate efforts that focus on making WP data usable,
we do hope that we can partner up with others to move things forward.

In a nutshell, I think we should aim to establish a “Wikidata Commons”
project at data.wikimedia.org which serves all Wikimedia projects with
structured data in a language-neutral fashion, analog to “Wikimedia
Commons” for multimedia files, and which becomes the central location
to curate, maintain and discuss such data. Wikidata Commons should
provide standard interfaces for querying, importing, and exporting
data. This project could be built incrementally (starting with clunky
but reasonably future-proof ways to manage and retrieve data).

The key challenges as I see them continue to be, as ever: 1)
maintaining predictable and reasonable system performance as the DB
scales, more and increasingly complex queries are performed, etc., 2)
consistently improving rather than degrading user experience, 3)
handling multilingual representations of all translatable content well
without giving undue prominence to any one language, 4) effectively
caching and purging data wherever it's used, 5)
versioning/transactioning relational data to be maximally useful and
conducive to collaboration.

Earlier this week, Danese and I met with Denny Vrandecic from SMW,
who's recently put together a prototype called "Shortipedia" that
allows language-independent (using multilingual labels) annotation of
concepts with SMW-style properties through a minimal form-based
interface, interfacing with whichever triple store is configured for
SMW. It's still very much a hack, and he's aiming to clean it up for
the summit. But it looks potentially very interesting, and like a
concept we could rally energy behind. The data from such a repository
could then be pulled into WP templates, accessed through "wizards"
that auto-generate template data for new articles, etc.

Anyone who wants to advance the thinking in this space should also
consider what can be done today with Wikimedia Commons and SMW. Since
Wikimedia Commons is an intrinsically multilingual database with focus
on annotating individual files, its operational requirements are
somewhat different from those of most other projects. It would be
useful to have an instance of SMW running using a copy of the
Wikimedia Commons database and possibly Semantic Forms to see what
such annotation could look like in practice. Anyone with time and
technical skills can put together prototypes like this that'll help us
move forward.

Again, I think the likely path forward here is for us to ally
effectively with the key players in the space, rather than doing all
the work ourselves.

--
Erik Möller
Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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WJhonson at aol

Nov 24, 2010, 3:10 PM

Post #10 of 21 (3898 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

Would this project answer the question I am trying to address today?

"Which American actors died in 1970?"

There does not appear to me, to be any obvious way of using the built-in
search engine to answer this question. Searching for "Actor 1970" generates a
lot of false positives, an overwhelming number.

Is there no way to find the intersection of two categories ?

W
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michaeldavid86 at comcast

Nov 24, 2010, 3:28 PM

Post #11 of 21 (3898 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

on 11/24/10 6:10 PM, WJhonson [at] aol at WJhonson [at] aol wrote:

> Would this project answer the question I am trying to address today?
>
> "Which American actors died in 1970?"
>
> There does not appear to me, to be any obvious way of using the built-in
> search engine to answer this question. Searching for "Actor 1970" generates a
> lot of false positives, an overwhelming number.
>
> Is there no way to find the intersection of two categories ?
>
> W

W,

Could it de done with a Category: 1970 Deaths - Actors, or some such thing?

Marc


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WJhonson at aol

Nov 24, 2010, 3:33 PM

Post #12 of 21 (3897 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

In a message dated 11/24/2010 3:29:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
michaeldavid86 [at] comcast writes:


> Could it de done with a Category: 1970 Deaths - Actors, or some such
> thing?
>
> Marc
>


Evidently the phrase "Category: 1970 Deaths" is not indexed. Try it, and
see if you get anything. I got zip on doing that.
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phnash at blueyonder

Nov 24, 2010, 3:45 PM

Post #13 of 21 (3897 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

Marc Riddell wrote:
> on 11/24/10 6:10 PM, WJhonson [at] aol at WJhonson [at] aol wrote:
>
>> Would this project answer the question I am trying to address today?
>>
>> "Which American actors died in 1970?"
>>
>> There does not appear to me, to be any obvious way of using the
>> built-in search engine to answer this question. Searching for
>> "Actor 1970" generates a lot of false positives, an overwhelming
>> number.
>>
>> Is there no way to find the intersection of two categories ?
>>
>> W
>
> W,
>
> Could it de done with a Category: 1970 Deaths - Actors, or some such
> thing?
>
> Marc

Try http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/CategoryIntersect.php

plug in values "en", "Deaths in 1970" and "American Actors".





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michaeldavid86 at comcast

Nov 24, 2010, 3:54 PM

Post #14 of 21 (3896 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

on 11/24/10 6:33 PM, WJhonson [at] aol at WJhonson [at] aol wrote:

> In a message dated 11/24/2010 3:29:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> michaeldavid86 [at] comcast writes:
>
>
>> Could it de done with a Category: 1970 Deaths - Actors, or some such
>> thing?
>>
>> Marc
>>
>
>
> Evidently the phrase "Category: 1970 Deaths" is not indexed. Try it, and
> see if you get anything. I got zip on doing that.

I tried several different ways and, like you, got nowhere. If there were
only some way to take the existing Category, "1970 Deaths" and the Category,
"Actors" and combine them for a search.

Marc


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WJhonson at aol

Nov 24, 2010, 3:59 PM

Post #15 of 21 (3898 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

In a message dated 11/24/2010 3:56:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,
phnash [at] blueyonder writes:


> Try http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/CategoryIntersect.php
>
> plug in values "en", "Deaths in 1970" and "American Actors".
>




Articles that are under American Actors and under Deaths in 1970:

no matches!
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michaeldavid86 at comcast

Nov 24, 2010, 4:10 PM

Post #16 of 21 (3900 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

on 11/24/10 6:59 PM, WJhonson [at] aol at WJhonson [at] aol wrote:

> In a message dated 11/24/2010 3:56:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> phnash [at] blueyonder writes:
>
>
>> Try http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/CategoryIntersect.php
>>
>> plug in values "en", "Deaths in 1970" and "American Actors".
>>
>
>
>
>
> Articles that are under American Actors and under Deaths in 1970:
>
> no matches!

I just pulled up the Articles on two actors who I know died in 1970. One was
in the Category "English Film Actors" and the other in "American Film
Actors".

M


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WJhonson at aol

Nov 24, 2010, 4:25 PM

Post #17 of 21 (3908 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

In a message dated 11/24/2010 4:11:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
michaeldavid86 [at] comcast writes:


> I just pulled up the Articles on two actors who I know died in 1970. One
> was
> in the Category "English Film Actors" and the other in "American Film
> Actors".
>


The category intersect PHP is very finicky.
You have to use the right case.

"American film actors" and "1970 deaths"

NOW I get a list of 61 articles


W
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michaeldavid86 at comcast

Nov 24, 2010, 4:41 PM

Post #18 of 21 (3883 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

on 11/24/10 7:25 PM, WJhonson [at] aol at WJhonson [at] aol wrote:

> In a message dated 11/24/2010 4:11:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> michaeldavid86 [at] comcast writes:
>
>
>> I just pulled up the Articles on two actors who I know died in 1970. One
>> was
>> in the Category "English Film Actors" and the other in "American Film
>> Actors".
>>
>
>
> The category intersect PHP is very finicky.
> You have to use the right case.
>
> "American film actors" and "1970 deaths"
>
> NOW I get a list of 61 articles
>
>
> W


Unless we're both missing something, I think you've hit on an important
issue the tech people should look at. I would make the encyclopedia an even
better tool for research.

M


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phnash at blueyonder

Nov 24, 2010, 5:04 PM

Post #19 of 21 (3894 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

Marc Riddell wrote:
> on 11/24/10 7:25 PM, WJhonson [at] aol at WJhonson [at] aol wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 11/24/2010 4:11:03 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>> michaeldavid86 [at] comcast writes:
>>
>>
>>> I just pulled up the Articles on two actors who I know died in
>>> 1970. One was
>>> in the Category "English Film Actors" and the other in "American
>>> Film Actors".
>>>
>>
>>
>> The category intersect PHP is very finicky.
>> You have to use the right case.
>>
>> "American film actors" and "1970 deaths"
>>
>> NOW I get a list of 61 articles
>>
>>
>> W
>
>
> Unless we're both missing something, I think you've hit on an
> important issue the tech people should look at. I would make the
> encyclopedia an even better tool for research.
>
> M

Agreed, Toolserver is pretty much "take it as you find it", although full
marks to its contributors for making the effort. However, it is, like some
stuff around here, unsupported by Wikimedia other than they host it.


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garbage5 at seznam

Nov 27, 2010, 3:23 AM

Post #20 of 21 (3841 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

Hi there,

so how do we move forward with Wikidata? There is a bunch of proposals both on Strategy and Meta, but I guess we need a clearly dedicated place for serious discussion on topic. So lets either create a wiki on data.wikimedia.org or a dedicated mailing list here... or both.

Kozuch

> ------------ Původní zpráva ------------
> Od: Erik Moeller <erik [at] wikimedia>
> Předmět: Re: [Foundation-l] [Commons-l] Wikidata
> Datum: 24.11.2010 20:25:37
> ----------------------------------------
> Hi all,
>
> as you may know I've been involved in the structured data community
> for a few years (through the original "Wikidata" proposal in 2004 as
> well as architecting and developing OmegaWiki, together with the
> OpenProgress team and others from 2005-2007). I've been following
> Semantic MediaWiki, Freebase and other projects from the beginning.
> You don't need to sell me on the value or importance of structured
> data.
>
> The problem space is very complex, especially when taking into account
> that Wikimedia is a fully multilingual system. There are still low
> hanging fruits, especially for a project like Wikimedia Commons, but I
> agree w/ Michael that a more holistic approach to how to access and
> manage data in WMF projects is much preferable to, for example,
> throwing SMW into some wikis and not others, etc.
>
> When I joined WMF, I couldn't justify arguing for higher priority on
> data tech projects more so than, for example, the 2009-10 usability
> initiative and continuing efforts in this area, especially given that
> we still have only a tiny engineering staff. I don't believe that
> structured data is going to be the principal driver of participation
> -- that problem space is more about social and technical barriers to
> entry, interaction with new users, mentoring, etc. And we're
> continuing to fall behind the rest of the web in terms of usability.
>
> That being said, it's clear that it's a key enabling technology
> (including for _some_ usability improvements, although many of them
> can be made without a full-fledged structured data support system). I
> particularly think it has huge potential in bootstrapping small
> languages by more closely interconnecting useful and translatable bits
> of information (start a page about "Germany" in a new language and
> immediately pull all relevant data, possibly including translations of
> labels if available).
>
> Danese and I have been working on a "Data Summit" this year to bring
> together both the key players in the structured data field (DBPedia,
> SMW, etc.), as well as some of the research and analytics community.
> Unfortunately we've had to reschedule it, but it'll happen in Q1 2011.
> We're not going to be able to dedicate lots of resources to
> engineering in this area in the near future, but since there are
> already so many disparate efforts that focus on making WP data usable,
> we do hope that we can partner up with others to move things forward.
>
> In a nutshell, I think we should aim to establish a “Wikidata Commons”
> project at data.wikimedia.org which serves all Wikimedia projects with
> structured data in a language-neutral fashion, analog to “Wikimedia
> Commons” for multimedia files, and which becomes the central location
> to curate, maintain and discuss such data. Wikidata Commons should
> provide standard interfaces for querying, importing, and exporting
> data. This project could be built incrementally (starting with clunky
> but reasonably future-proof ways to manage and retrieve data).
>
> The key challenges as I see them continue to be, as ever: 1)
> maintaining predictable and reasonable system performance as the DB
> scales, more and increasingly complex queries are performed, etc., 2)
> consistently improving rather than degrading user experience, 3)
> handling multilingual representations of all translatable content well
> without giving undue prominence to any one language, 4) effectively
> caching and purging data wherever it's used, 5)
> versioning/transactioning relational data to be maximally useful and
> conducive to collaboration.
>
> Earlier this week, Danese and I met with Denny Vrandecic from SMW,
> who's recently put together a prototype called "Shortipedia" that
> allows language-independent (using multilingual labels) annotation of
> concepts with SMW-style properties through a minimal form-based
> interface, interfacing with whichever triple store is configured for
> SMW. It's still very much a hack, and he's aiming to clean it up for
> the summit. But it looks potentially very interesting, and like a
> concept we could rally energy behind. The data from such a repository
> could then be pulled into WP templates, accessed through "wizards"
> that auto-generate template data for new articles, etc.
>
> Anyone who wants to advance the thinking in this space should also
> consider what can be done today with Wikimedia Commons and SMW. Since
> Wikimedia Commons is an intrinsically multilingual database with focus
> on annotating individual files, its operational requirements are
> somewhat different from those of most other projects. It would be
> useful to have an instance of SMW running using a copy of the
> Wikimedia Commons database and possibly Semantic Forms to see what
> such annotation could look like in practice. Anyone with time and
> technical skills can put together prototypes like this that'll help us
> move forward.
>
> Again, I think the likely path forward here is for us to ally
> effectively with the key players in the space, rather than doing all
> the work ourselves.
>
> --
> Erik Möller
> Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>

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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Nov 27, 2010, 4:22 AM

Post #21 of 21 (3836 views)
Permalink
Re: [Commons-l] Wikidata [In reply to]

Hoi,
At OmegaWiki we are MediaWiki based. We link to Wikipedia and to Commons.
The data is multilingual and the relations show in "your" language when a
translation exists. I hope that you have a look what can already be done.
Try for instance котка
Thanks,
GerardM
http://www.omegawiki.org/Expression:%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B0

On 27 November 2010 12:23, Jan Kucera (Kozuch) <garbage5 [at] seznam> wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> so how do we move forward with Wikidata? There is a bunch of proposals both
> on Strategy and Meta, but I guess we need a clearly dedicated place for
> serious discussion on topic. So lets either create a wiki on
> data.wikimedia.org or a dedicated mailing list here... or both.
>
> Kozuch
>
> > ------------ Původní zpráva ------------
> > Od: Erik Moeller <erik [at] wikimedia>
> > Předmět: Re: [Foundation-l] [Commons-l] Wikidata
> > Datum: 24.11.2010 20:25:37
> > ----------------------------------------
> > Hi all,
> >
> > as you may know I've been involved in the structured data community
> > for a few years (through the original "Wikidata" proposal in 2004 as
> > well as architecting and developing OmegaWiki, together with the
> > OpenProgress team and others from 2005-2007). I've been following
> > Semantic MediaWiki, Freebase and other projects from the beginning.
> > You don't need to sell me on the value or importance of structured
> > data.
> >
> > The problem space is very complex, especially when taking into account
> > that Wikimedia is a fully multilingual system. There are still low
> > hanging fruits, especially for a project like Wikimedia Commons, but I
> > agree w/ Michael that a more holistic approach to how to access and
> > manage data in WMF projects is much preferable to, for example,
> > throwing SMW into some wikis and not others, etc.
> >
> > When I joined WMF, I couldn't justify arguing for higher priority on
> > data tech projects more so than, for example, the 2009-10 usability
> > initiative and continuing efforts in this area, especially given that
> > we still have only a tiny engineering staff. I don't believe that
> > structured data is going to be the principal driver of participation
> > -- that problem space is more about social and technical barriers to
> > entry, interaction with new users, mentoring, etc. And we're
> > continuing to fall behind the rest of the web in terms of usability.
> >
> > That being said, it's clear that it's a key enabling technology
> > (including for _some_ usability improvements, although many of them
> > can be made without a full-fledged structured data support system). I
> > particularly think it has huge potential in bootstrapping small
> > languages by more closely interconnecting useful and translatable bits
> > of information (start a page about "Germany" in a new language and
> > immediately pull all relevant data, possibly including translations of
> > labels if available).
> >
> > Danese and I have been working on a "Data Summit" this year to bring
> > together both the key players in the structured data field (DBPedia,
> > SMW, etc.), as well as some of the research and analytics community.
> > Unfortunately we've had to reschedule it, but it'll happen in Q1 2011.
> > We're not going to be able to dedicate lots of resources to
> > engineering in this area in the near future, but since there are
> > already so many disparate efforts that focus on making WP data usable,
> > we do hope that we can partner up with others to move things forward.
> >
> > In a nutshell, I think we should aim to establish a “Wikidata Commons”
> > project at data.wikimedia.org which serves all Wikimedia projects with
> > structured data in a language-neutral fashion, analog to “Wikimedia
> > Commons” for multimedia files, and which becomes the central location
> > to curate, maintain and discuss such data. Wikidata Commons should
> > provide standard interfaces for querying, importing, and exporting
> > data. This project could be built incrementally (starting with clunky
> > but reasonably future-proof ways to manage and retrieve data).
> >
> > The key challenges as I see them continue to be, as ever: 1)
> > maintaining predictable and reasonable system performance as the DB
> > scales, more and increasingly complex queries are performed, etc., 2)
> > consistently improving rather than degrading user experience, 3)
> > handling multilingual representations of all translatable content well
> > without giving undue prominence to any one language, 4) effectively
> > caching and purging data wherever it's used, 5)
> > versioning/transactioning relational data to be maximally useful and
> > conducive to collaboration.
> >
> > Earlier this week, Danese and I met with Denny Vrandecic from SMW,
> > who's recently put together a prototype called "Shortipedia" that
> > allows language-independent (using multilingual labels) annotation of
> > concepts with SMW-style properties through a minimal form-based
> > interface, interfacing with whichever triple store is configured for
> > SMW. It's still very much a hack, and he's aiming to clean it up for
> > the summit. But it looks potentially very interesting, and like a
> > concept we could rally energy behind. The data from such a repository
> > could then be pulled into WP templates, accessed through "wizards"
> > that auto-generate template data for new articles, etc.
> >
> > Anyone who wants to advance the thinking in this space should also
> > consider what can be done today with Wikimedia Commons and SMW. Since
> > Wikimedia Commons is an intrinsically multilingual database with focus
> > on annotating individual files, its operational requirements are
> > somewhat different from those of most other projects. It would be
> > useful to have an instance of SMW running using a copy of the
> > Wikimedia Commons database and possibly Semantic Forms to see what
> > such annotation could look like in practice. Anyone with time and
> > technical skills can put together prototypes like this that'll help us
> > move forward.
> >
> > Again, I think the likely path forward here is for us to ally
> > effectively with the key players in the space, rather than doing all
> > the work ourselves.
> >
> > --
> > Erik Möller
> > Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation
> >
> > Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l [at] lists
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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