Mailing List Archive: Wikipedia: Foundation

Font support for our domains

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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Oct 30, 2009, 4:49 AM

Post #1 of 15 (406 views)
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Font support for our domains

Hoi,
According to an article on the BBC website, it is now possible to have a URL
that is completely in the script used for a language. This means that a
Russian URL would be completely in the Cyrillic script and it would not need
to end with .org.

I would like the Wikimedia Foundation to get the necessary domains to
support the scripts that we have language versions in. The BBC article
explains that people do find the need to move from one script to the other
as problematic and cumbersome. Obviously, we can have the necessary mapping
from our current Latin based URLs to the ones in other scripts. This will be
an important feature because we want people to easily move between our
projects.
Thanks,
GerardM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8333209.stm
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smolensk at eunet

Oct 30, 2009, 6:10 AM

Post #2 of 15 (393 views)
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Re: Font support for our domains [In reply to]

Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> According to an article on the BBC website, it is now possible to have a URL
> that is completely in the script used for a language. This means that a
> Russian URL would be completely in the Cyrillic script and it would not need
> to end with .org.
>
> I would like the Wikimedia Foundation to get the necessary domains to
> support the scripts that we have language versions in. The BBC article
> explains that people do find the need to move from one script to the other
> as problematic and cumbersome. Obviously, we can have the necessary mapping
> from our current Latin based URLs to the ones in other scripts. This will be
> an important feature because we want people to easily move between our
> projects.

I'm not sure how popular such domains will become. However, I believe at
least a few key ones should be registered, in order to prevent squatters
and protect the trademarks. It appears that 维基百科.com is already
registered, though it doesn't point anywhere. 维基百科.org is still free...

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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Oct 30, 2009, 6:27 AM

Post #3 of 15 (390 views)
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Re: Font support for our domains [In reply to]

Hoi,
The news is that you do not need the .org part anymore in the Latin script.
You mention that you do not know if it will be popular ... this is the kind
of thing that will slowly grow and then mushroom. Where you indicate that
domain names are squatted, there are procedures to gain those names. For a
project like Wikipedia it is obvious that we can gain specific domains.. The
thing is what word in Cyrillic or other script will be the one that we will
use.
Thanks,
GerardM

2009/10/30 Nikola Smolenski <smolensk[at]eunet.rs>

> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> > According to an article on the BBC website, it is now possible to have a
> URL
> > that is completely in the script used for a language. This means that a
> > Russian URL would be completely in the Cyrillic script and it would not
> need
> > to end with .org.
> >
> > I would like the Wikimedia Foundation to get the necessary domains to
> > support the scripts that we have language versions in. The BBC article
> > explains that people do find the need to move from one script to the
> other
> > as problematic and cumbersome. Obviously, we can have the necessary
> mapping
> > from our current Latin based URLs to the ones in other scripts. This will
> be
> > an important feature because we want people to easily move between our
> > projects.
>
> I'm not sure how popular such domains will become. However, I believe at
> least a few key ones should be registered, in order to prevent squatters
> and protect the trademarks. It appears that 维基百科.com<http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.com>is already
> registered, though it doesn't point anywhere. 维基百科.org<http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.org>is still free...
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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innocentkiller at gmail

Oct 30, 2009, 6:52 PM

Post #4 of 15 (379 views)
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Re: Font support for our domains [In reply to]

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> Hoi,
> The news is that you do not need the .org part anymore in the Latin script.
> You mention that you do not know if it will be popular ... this is the kind
> of thing that will slowly grow and then mushroom. Where you indicate that
> domain names are squatted, there are procedures to gain those names. For a
> project like Wikipedia it is obvious that we can gain specific domains.. The
> thing is what word in Cyrillic or other script will be the one that we will
> use.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> 2009/10/30 Nikola Smolenski <smolensk[at]eunet.rs>
>
>> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>> > According to an article on the BBC website, it is now possible to have a
>> URL
>> > that is completely in the script used for a language. This means that a
>> > Russian URL would be completely in the Cyrillic script and it would not
>> need
>> > to end with .org.
>> >
>> > I would like the Wikimedia Foundation to get the necessary domains to
>> > support the scripts that we have language versions in. The BBC article
>> > explains that people do find the need to move from one script to the
>> other
>> > as problematic and cumbersome. Obviously, we can have the necessary
>> mapping
>> > from our current Latin based URLs to the ones in other scripts. This will
>> be
>> > an important feature because we want people to easily move between our
>> > projects.
>>
>> I'm not sure how popular such domains will become. However, I believe at
>> least a few key ones should be registered, in order to prevent squatters
>> and protect the trademarks. It appears that 维基百科.com<http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.com>is already
>> registered, though it doesn't point anywhere. 维基百科.org<http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.org>is still free...
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
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>

This got talked about on the Rachel Maddow show on MSNBC this evening,
her guest was one of the editors from BoingBoing. Thought it was cool that
it's getting some high-level media mention :)

-Chad

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meta.sj at gmail

Oct 30, 2009, 9:42 PM

Post #5 of 15 (380 views)
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Re: Font support for our domains [In reply to]

Gerard,

I don't think we currently register wikipedia.cn or
ά��ٿ�.cn<http://%e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>or
ά��ٿ�.org <http://%e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>. When the new
ICANN policies are in place, as I understand it, there will be four new
domains possible: wikipedia.c?n?, wikipedia.o?r?g?,
ά��ٿ�.c?n?<http://%e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>and
ά��ٿ�.o?r?g? <http://%e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>... which of
these are you suggesting using?

SJ

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 7:49 AM, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen[at]gmail.com>wrote:

> Hoi,
> According to an article on the BBC website, it is now possible to have a
> URL
> that is completely in the script used for a language. This means that a
> Russian URL would be completely in the Cyrillic script and it would not
> need
> to end with .org.
>
> I would like the Wikimedia Foundation to get the necessary domains to
> support the scripts that we have language versions in. The BBC article
> explains that people do find the need to move from one script to the other
> as problematic and cumbersome. Obviously, we can have the necessary mapping
> from our current Latin based URLs to the ones in other scripts. This will
> be
> an important feature because we want people to easily move between our
> projects.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8333209.stm
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Oct 30, 2009, 11:27 PM

Post #6 of 15 (378 views)
Permalink

Re: Font support for our domains [In reply to]

Hoi,
In your question the key thing to appreciate is that it is the .org part
that does not need to be in the Latin script any more. What I propose is
that we support the whole "wikipedia.org" part and "wiktionary.org" part
once in each script.

What the word is for Wikipedia is not my call. This is either obvious or a
choice is to be made. We will gain a lot in usability when our whole
experience can be wholly in the one script that is most comfortable to the
user. It is relevant to note that the language codes we use in front of "
wikipedia.org" need to be transcribed.
Thanks,
GerardM

2009/10/31 Samuel Klein <meta.sj[at]gmail.com>

> Gerard,
>
> I don't think we currently register wikipedia.cn or
> 维基百科.cn <http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.cn><http://
> %e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>or
> 维基百科.org <http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.org> <http://
> %e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>. When the new
> ICANN policies are in place, as I understand it, there will be four new
> domains possible: wikipedia.c?n?, wikipedia.o?r?g?,
> 维基百科.c?n?<http://%e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>and
> 维基百科.o?r?g? <http://%e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>... which of
> these are you suggesting using?
>
> SJ
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 7:49 AM, Gerard Meijssen
> <gerard.meijssen[at]gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> > According to an article on the BBC website, it is now possible to have a
> > URL
> > that is completely in the script used for a language. This means that a
> > Russian URL would be completely in the Cyrillic script and it would not
> > need
> > to end with .org.
> >
> > I would like the Wikimedia Foundation to get the necessary domains to
> > support the scripts that we have language versions in. The BBC article
> > explains that people do find the need to move from one script to the
> other
> > as problematic and cumbersome. Obviously, we can have the necessary
> mapping
> > from our current Latin based URLs to the ones in other scripts. This will
> > be
> > an important feature because we want people to easily move between our
> > projects.
> > Thanks,
> > GerardM
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8333209.stm
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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meta.sj at gmail

Oct 30, 2009, 11:48 PM

Post #7 of 15 (378 views)
Permalink

Re: Font support for our domains [In reply to]

I see. So you'd like to see double the number of site registrations; in
this case adding
ά��ٿ�.o?r?g? to zh.wikipedia.org

That strikes me as a significant expense for uncertain result; but it would
make a good strategy proposal -- especially if you can find users from ar,
zh, ru, and indic-language communities to weigh in on how often they visit
non-latin-script url's today. [.presumably someone who really prefers using
non-latin scripts would be visiting sites today whose full url, other than
the TLD code, was in a non-latin script.]

SJ

On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 2:27 AM, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen[at]gmail.com>wrote:

> Hoi,
> In your question the key thing to appreciate is that it is the .org part
> that does not need to be in the Latin script any more. What I propose is
> that we support the whole "wikipedia.org" part and "wiktionary.org" part
> once in each script.
>
> What the word is for Wikipedia is not my call. This is either obvious or a
> choice is to be made. We will gain a lot in usability when our whole
> experience can be wholly in the one script that is most comfortable to the
> user. It is relevant to note that the language codes we use in front of "
> wikipedia.org" need to be transcribed.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> 2009/10/31 Samuel Klein <meta.sj[at]gmail.com>
>
> > Gerard,
> >
> > I don't think we currently register wikipedia.cn or
> > ά��ٿ�.cn <http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.cn> <http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.cn
> ><http://
> > %e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>or
> > ά��ٿ�.org <http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.org> <http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.org>
> <http://
> > %e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>. When the new
> > ICANN policies are in place, as I understand it, there will be four new
> > domains possible: wikipedia.c?n?, wikipedia.o?r?g?,
> > ά��ٿ�.c?n?<http://%e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>and
> > ά��ٿ�.o?r?g? <http://%e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>... which
> of
> > these are you suggesting using?
> >
> > SJ
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 7:49 AM, Gerard Meijssen
> > <gerard.meijssen[at]gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> > > Hoi,
> > > According to an article on the BBC website, it is now possible to have
> a
> > > URL
> > > that is completely in the script used for a language. This means that a
> > > Russian URL would be completely in the Cyrillic script and it would not
> > > need
> > > to end with .org.
> > >
> > > I would like the Wikimedia Foundation to get the necessary domains to
> > > support the scripts that we have language versions in. The BBC article
> > > explains that people do find the need to move from one script to the
> > other
> > > as problematic and cumbersome. Obviously, we can have the necessary
> > mapping
> > > from our current Latin based URLs to the ones in other scripts. This
> will
> > > be
> > > an important feature because we want people to easily move between our
> > > projects.
> > > Thanks,
> > > GerardM
> > >
> > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8333209.stm
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
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grinapo at gmail

Oct 30, 2009, 11:57 PM

Post #8 of 15 (377 views)
Permalink

Re: Font support for our domains [In reply to]

By the way Hungary supports accented domains for some years now and
the experience shows that they are not used at all. Penetration is so
low that I couldn't even tell you one to test.

(We have, for example http://wikip�dia.hu/, but it's rather a test
than a real usage.)

Apart from that Wikipedia is large enough to create trends, so by no
means take my comment as an opposition.

grin

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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Oct 31, 2009, 12:02 AM

Post #9 of 15 (378 views)
Permalink

Re: Font support for our domains [In reply to]

Hoi,
The Hungarian Wikipedia is written in the Latin script so the experience
cannot be compared.
Thanks,
GerardM

2009/10/31 Peter Gervai <grinapo[at]gmail.com>

> By the way Hungary supports accented domains for some years now and
> the experience shows that they are not used at all. Penetration is so
> low that I couldn't even tell you one to test.
>
> (We have, for example http://wikipédia.hu/ <http://xn--wikipdia-f1a.hu/>,
> but it's rather a test
> than a real usage.)
>
> Apart from that Wikipedia is large enough to create trends, so by no
> means take my comment as an opposition.
>
> grin
>
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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Oct 31, 2009, 12:11 AM

Post #10 of 15 (378 views)
Permalink

Re: Font support for our domains [In reply to]

Hoi,
The BBC article I referred to explained the benefits; the usability is much
improved. It is nasty to have to switch to another keyboard whenever a URL
is to be typed. When you consider that half the world population does not
use the Latin script for their language, the benefit should be obvious. The
expense consists of one domain per script.. So let us be generous and have
20 scripts to support, it means that we need active domains only for those
domains that we have an active project in. While this is a recurring cost,
it is not a significant one and, it is one that improves our usability
demonstrably.

Currently it is possible to have the domain partly in other scripts. The
benefits are debatable because you still need to end these with the .net
.org .com whatever suffix in the Latin script. With the new script support,
the full URL can be fully in Unicode supported scripts.
Thanks,
GerardM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8333209.stm

2009/10/31 Samuel Klein <meta.sj[at]gmail.com>

> I see. So you'd like to see double the number of site registrations; in
> this case adding
> 维基百科.o?r?g? to zh.wikipedia.org
>
> That strikes me as a significant expense for uncertain result; but it would
> make a good strategy proposal -- especially if you can find users from ar,
> zh, ru, and indic-language communities to weigh in on how often they visit
> non-latin-script url's today. [.presumably someone who really prefers using
> non-latin scripts would be visiting sites today whose full url, other than
> the TLD code, was in a non-latin script.]
>
> SJ
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 2:27 AM, Gerard Meijssen
> <gerard.meijssen[at]gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> > In your question the key thing to appreciate is that it is the .org part
> > that does not need to be in the Latin script any more. What I propose is
> > that we support the whole "wikipedia.org" part and "wiktionary.org" part
> > once in each script.
> >
> > What the word is for Wikipedia is not my call. This is either obvious or
> a
> > choice is to be made. We will gain a lot in usability when our whole
> > experience can be wholly in the one script that is most comfortable to
> the
> > user. It is relevant to note that the language codes we use in front of "
> > wikipedia.org" need to be transcribed.
> > Thanks,
> > GerardM
> >
> > 2009/10/31 Samuel Klein <meta.sj[at]gmail.com>
> >
> > > Gerard,
> > >
> > > I don't think we currently register wikipedia.cn or
> > > 维基百科.cn <http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.cn> <http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.cn> <
> http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.cn
> > ><http://
> > > %e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>or
> > > 维基百科.org <http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.org> <http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.org>
> <http://xn--3js032e7ich4g.org>
> > <http://
> > > %e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>. When the new
> > > ICANN policies are in place, as I understand it, there will be four new
> > > domains possible: wikipedia.c?n?, wikipedia.o?r?g?,
> > > 维基百科.c?n?<http://%e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>and
> > > 维基百科.o?r?g? <http://%e7%bb%b4%e5%9f%ba%e7%99%be%e7%a7%91.org/>...
> which
> > of
> > > these are you suggesting using?
> > >
> > > SJ
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 7:49 AM, Gerard Meijssen
> > > <gerard.meijssen[at]gmail.com>wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hoi,
> > > > According to an article on the BBC website, it is now possible to
> have
> > a
> > > > URL
> > > > that is completely in the script used for a language. This means that
> a
> > > > Russian URL would be completely in the Cyrillic script and it would
> not
> > > > need
> > > > to end with .org.
> > > >
> > > > I would like the Wikimedia Foundation to get the necessary domains to
> > > > support the scripts that we have language versions in. The BBC
> article
> > > > explains that people do find the need to move from one script to the
> > > other
> > > > as problematic and cumbersome. Obviously, we can have the necessary
> > > mapping
> > > > from our current Latin based URLs to the ones in other scripts. This
> > will
> > > > be
> > > > an important feature because we want people to easily move between
> our
> > > > projects.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > GerardM
> > > >
> > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8333209.stm
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
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> >
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me at marcusbuck

Oct 31, 2009, 3:01 AM

Post #11 of 15 (377 views)
Permalink

Re: Font support for our domains [In reply to]

Do you need to register domains under these new internationalised TLDs?
To me it seems to be the obvious solution, that the internationalised
TLDs will be aliases to the existing ones. So wikipedia.cn and 维基百科.
c?n? will point to the same target. That's how I would solve it and I
really see no reson to do it in any other way. But I couldn't find any
information whether this is the case or not. I still could be wrong
about this assumption. But if they will be aliases nothing needs to be
done by the Foundation.

At the moment it is only planned to internationalise some few country
TLDs. .org and other gTLDs will not be internationalised for the moment.

Marcus Buck
User:Slomox

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grinapo at gmail

Oct 31, 2009, 8:06 AM

Post #12 of 15 (371 views)
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Re: Font support for our domains [In reply to]

On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 08:02, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen[at]gmail.com> wrote:

> The Hungarian Wikipedia is written in the Latin script

I'm kind of guessed that. :-]

> so the experience cannot be compared.

It is not the same, but indeed they can be compared. Straight denial
doesn't always helpful. And no need to debate, just acknowledge the
fact that people's habit may be stronger than you guess. :-)

regards,
grin

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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Oct 31, 2009, 8:56 AM

Post #13 of 15 (367 views)
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Re: Font support for our domains [In reply to]

Hoi,
So you want to have a comparison.

When you type in the Korean script, you have to change your keyboard in
order to be able to type a URL. Alternatively for the advanced users, you
know the codes for the characters that are the suffix for a domain. The vast
majority of people do not know how to do this.

When you type in the Latin script, when your language is Hungarian, you do
not have to change your keyboard mapping. I expect that the characters are
right there in front of you.

Our objective is to reach out to all people of this world and provide them
with the information that they seek. Sue indicated that she wishes for the
WMF projects to have the number five reach in every country. It helps when
our wikis are super usable, when our usability is much improved. Remember
that in a UNESCO study they found that 100% of a group of testsubjects were
not able to create a new article. This means that the argument of what some
people are used to is not that strong.

The good news is, every thing will remain the same for the hu.wikipedia.org.
It does not need any change. Other languages like Russian, Chinese, Hindi
have the potential to grow much bigger then they are today, they have a
different script, they may benefit when we consider measures that make it
easy on the many people who are new to Wikipedia. When a URL can be fully in
one script, you will find increasingly people who will not be interested in
those websites that are not considered enough to reach out.

I have presented you with the arguments why we should adopt full URL's in
other scripts in addition to our current domains. I hope that you see my
point but we can debate them anyway.
Thanks,
GerardM

2009/10/31 Peter Gervai <grinapo[at]gmail.com>

> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 08:02, Gerard Meijssen
> <gerard.meijssen[at]gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The Hungarian Wikipedia is written in the Latin script
>
> I'm kind of guessed that. :-]
>
> > so the experience cannot be compared.
>
> It is not the same, but indeed they can be compared. Straight denial
> doesn't always helpful. And no need to debate, just acknowledge the
> fact that people's habit may be stronger than you guess. :-)
>
> regards,
> grin
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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grinapo at gmail

Oct 31, 2009, 9:22 AM

Post #14 of 15 (366 views)
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Re: Font support for our domains [In reply to]

On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 16:56, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> So you want to have a comparison.

No. I have offered experience.

> When you type in the Korean script,
[...]
> The vast majority of people do not know how to do this.

What does a korean end user do now, when s/he wants to see a webpage?
They cannot type any URL, right? I wonder.

> our wikis are super usable, when our usability is much improved.

I would guess, without any prior research, that people who cannot type
latin script (though how they type URLs then is a mistery to me) would
use search engines, and those doesn't really care about domain names.

> that in a UNESCO study they found that 100% of a group of testsubjects were
> not able to create a new article.

You mean no Korean citizen whatsoever was able to create a new article? Weird.

> The good news is, every thing will remain the same for the hu.wikipedia.org.

I work with domains for the last 10 or so years, so I guess I have
some limited insights with these matters, but thanks for the relieving
comment. :-)

> It does not need any change. Other languages like Russian, Chinese, Hindi
> have the potential to grow much bigger then they are today, they have a

You probably have missed my last sentence informing you about my
comment not being an opposition, so really you do not need to either
defend or debate the topic. But I'm really interested in current real
world usage of the internet there, how they type URLs, how they access
the pages without latin script, or are they even able to know what
these funny letters are what we use. I have no idea what kind of
education people have who have access to the net. And whether there
are large percentage of those with access not being able to type latin
script. (All of the asians I know have keyboard switching active and
they are fully able to use latin script for URLs. But that's a relaly
small sample.)

> I have presented you with the arguments why we should adopt full URL's in
> other scripts in addition to our current domains. I hope that you see my
> point but we can debate them anyway.

Since this requires close to zero work, no software or changes I do
not see what part of it could be debated. It have a registration cost,
the domains have to be set up and that's all. Probably if the
Foundation wouldn't be interested I would register them and create the
redirect (as I have done with the example I have mentioned earlier) if
I were asian, but since I am not I am a neutral party.It is even
possible that asian colleagues already created such redirects, who
knows?

Really no need to convince me, I'm for it.

--
byte-byte,
grin

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chamdarae at gmail

Oct 31, 2009, 10:08 PM

Post #15 of 15 (339 views)
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Re: Font support for our domains [In reply to]

>
> > When you type in the Korean script,
> [...]
> > The vast majority of people do not know how to do this.
>
> What does a korean end user do now, when s/he wants to see a webpage?
> They cannot type any URL, right? I wonder.
>

The Korean keyboard is really just a modified Qwerty keyboard, and I don't
think I've ever seen one that didn't have Roman letters shown on the keys
alongside the Korean letters. There are extra keys for changing between the
Korean and Qwerty keyboard layouts, and for entering Chinese characters,
though these can only be used with MS Windows. (There are other ways to
switch keyboards when using Linux or Mac, and actually there are several
different Korean keyboard layouts, though only one is commonly used).

Most Korean Internet users are used to typing in Roman letters, but it would
a problem for new computer users, such as the pensioners mentioned in the
BBC article. Anyway, it would clearly be better if people didn't have to
keep changing to a foreign alphabet / keyboard layout when they wanted to
use the Internet (local Internet portals do partly solve that though).

The BBC article mentions the possibility of ghettoization, but the opposite
could happen if there is less need to rely on Internet portals in one's
native language or script.

> our wikis are super usable, when our usability is much improved.
>
> I would guess, without any prior research, that people who cannot type
> latin script (though how they type URLs then is a mistery to me) would
> use search engines, and those doesn't really care about domain names.
>
> > that in a UNESCO study they found that 100% of a group of testsubjects
> were
> > not able to create a new article.
>
> You mean no Korean citizen whatsoever was able to create a new article?
> Weird.

I would guess that UNESCO's sample may not have been entirely
representative.

Richard
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