Mailing List Archive: Wikipedia: Foundation

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia)

Index | Next | Previous | View Threaded

foxyloxy.wikimedia at gmail

May 31, 2009, 12:37 AM

Post #1 of 12 (663 views)
Permalink

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia)

I would guess a partership with Google would be a good idea because:
1) They are the best (according to Brian) and
2) If we were to go through with this proposal we'd want the translation
technology now, not in X years when the technology catches up with
google, if at all.

And with many OSS/free projects, the X could be insanely high.

On Sunday, 31 May 2009 2:50 pm, Fajro wrote:
> And why partner with Google? There are Free alternatives in
> development:
>
> http://www.apertium.org/
>
> http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Main_Page
>
> --
> △ ℱajro △

--
fl
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/user_talk:fl>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

gerard.meijssen at gmail

May 31, 2009, 12:45 AM

Post #2 of 12 (636 views)
Permalink

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia) [In reply to]

Hoi,
Currently the translation engine by Goole works for some twenty languages.
We have Wikipedias in over 250 languages and we localise in over 300. If we
are to collaborate with Google on this, we should partner in the building of
translation engines for our other languages. We could and we should consider
this when the software was to be open source.
Thanks,
GerardM

2009/5/31 Foxy Loxy <foxyloxy.wikimedia[at]gmail.com>

> I would guess a partership with Google would be a good idea because:
> 1) They are the best (according to Brian) and
> 2) If we were to go through with this proposal we'd want the translation
> technology now, not in X years when the technology catches up with
> google, if at all.
>
> And with many OSS/free projects, the X could be insanely high.
>
> On Sunday, 31 May 2009 2:50 pm, Fajro wrote:
> > And why partner with Google? There are Free alternatives in
> > development:
> >
> > http://www.apertium.org/
> >
> > http://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/Main_Page
> >
> > --
> > △ ℱajro △
>
> --
> fl
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/user_talk:fl>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

michaeldavid86 at comcast

May 31, 2009, 4:43 AM

Post #3 of 12 (639 views)
Permalink

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia) [In reply to]

> 2009/5/31 Foxy Loxy <foxyloxy.wikimedia[at]gmail.com>:
>
>> Assembling a chain of production that long, particularly for a
>> non-profit foundation that doesn't have the best reputation (I'm not
>> saying it's justified, but many people in high places will go 'ew,
>> wikipedia').
>
> on 5/31/09 7:29 AM, David Gerard at dgerard[at]gmail.com wrote:

> [citation needed]
>
> People in high places appear to love us and/or respect our power, in general.
>
[citation needed]

The power to do what, David?

Marc Riddell

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

saintonge at telus

May 31, 2009, 2:29 PM

Post #4 of 12 (626 views)
Permalink

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia) [In reply to]

geni wrote:
> Now a lot of those languages are Indian which since they tend to be
> fairly closely related and bilingualism is fairly common Bengali,
> Hindi, Punjabi and English should cover most cases.

That's very generously European of you. The three Indian languages that
you chose are all Indo-Aryan. Manipuri, Munda and Tamil are as
different from these as they are from each other.

Ec

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

saintonge at telus

May 31, 2009, 2:46 PM

Post #5 of 12 (631 views)
Permalink

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia) [In reply to]

Anthony wrote:
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:50 AM, geni <geniice[at]gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dead tree technology. Wikipedia based encyclopedias in the most widely
>> used languages.
>>
>> Select the 40K most important articles (that will be fun).
>>
> Do you really think the 40K most important Wikipedia articles are more
> useful than a set of high school textbooks?
>
> Wikipedia is sometimes good for getting answers to specific questions, or as
> a place to find out what you don't know so you can then check other
> resources to learn it. But it can't replace a good textbook for learning
> something from scratch. Really, no encyclopedia can.

Assuming that I were somewhere in rural Africa, and perfectly
functioning hardware with Wikipedia software loaded in dropped in front
of me from the sky like a magic Coke bottle from the Gods, how much
would I then be able to use that gift to get a better yield from my
little patch of poor farm-land?

Ec

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

thomas.dalton at gmail

May 31, 2009, 3:05 PM

Post #6 of 12 (625 views)
Permalink

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia) [In reply to]

2009/5/31 Ray Saintonge <saintonge[at]telus.net>:
> Assuming that I were somewhere in rural Africa, and perfectly
> functioning hardware with Wikipedia software loaded in dropped in front
> of me from the sky like a magic Coke bottle from the Gods, how much
> would I then be able to use that gift to get a better yield from my
> little patch of poor farm-land?

Wikipedia could be *part* of a solution, it's never going to be a
solution on its own. Wikipedia could be useful as part of an education
system, but it can't be the whole thing.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

mike.wikipedia at gmail

Jun 1, 2009, 3:23 AM

Post #7 of 12 (611 views)
Permalink

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia) [In reply to]

On 2009-06-01 00:18, Anthony wrote:
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Thomas Dalton<thomas.dalton[at]gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>> 2009/5/31 Ray Saintonge<saintonge[at]telus.net>:
>>
>>> Assuming that I were somewhere in rural Africa, and perfectly
>>> functioning hardware with Wikipedia software loaded in dropped in front
>>> of me from the sky like a magic Coke bottle from the Gods, how much
>>> would I then be able to use that gift to get a better yield from my
>>> little patch of poor farm-land?
>>>
>> Wikipedia could be *part* of a solution, it's never going to be a
>> solution on its own. Wikipedia could be useful as part of an education
>> system, but it can't be the whole thing.
>>
>
>
> I just found another statistic. Mobile networks cover roughly 80-90% of the
> worlds population.
>
> For them, using that mobile network is probably the most cost effective
> solution. For the rest, giving them enough of an education to have the
> means to come live with the rest of us, is probably the most cost effective
> solution.
You also found any statistics on what prices for internet access through
mobile networks are? What proportion of the world's people can afford a
internet connection in the first place, and how many can afford a
connection which is useful to browse wikipedia?
I'm just curious as I know someone - a westerner - working in Africa and
finding internet access hideously expensive. (chat and email ok, but she
tells that she avoids browsing the net as the cost is per downloaded MB)
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

thomas.dalton at gmail

Jun 1, 2009, 4:54 AM

Post #8 of 12 (614 views)
Permalink

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia) [In reply to]

2009/6/1 mike.wikipedia[at]gmail.com <mike.wikipedia[at]gmail.com>:
> You also found any statistics on what prices for internet access through
> mobile networks are? What proportion of the world's people can afford a
> internet connection in the first place, and how many can afford a
> connection which is useful to browse wikipedia?
> I'm just curious as I know someone - a westerner - working in Africa and
> finding internet access hideously expensive. (chat and email ok, but she
> tells that she avoids browsing the net as the cost is per downloaded MB)

Indeed. That's why I was suggesting not using a regular ISP but rather
having them phone a WMF number to get direct access to the appropriate
data, sort of like the old BBS system. That could be subsidised/free
except for the cost of the phone call (which could hopefully be
subsidised/free, but would require negotiation with the network
provider).

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

yann at forget-me

Jun 1, 2009, 3:44 PM

Post #9 of 12 (601 views)
Permalink

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia) [In reply to]

mike.wikipedia[at]gmail.com wrote:
> On 2009-06-01 00:18, Anthony wrote:
>> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Thomas Dalton<thomas.dalton[at]gmail.com>wrote:
>>> 2009/5/31 Ray Saintonge<saintonge[at]telus.net>:
>>>> Assuming that I were somewhere in rural Africa, and perfectly
>>>> functioning hardware with Wikipedia software loaded in dropped in front
>>>> of me from the sky like a magic Coke bottle from the Gods, how much
>>>> would I then be able to use that gift to get a better yield from my
>>>> little patch of poor farm-land?
>>>>
>>> Wikipedia could be *part* of a solution, it's never going to be a
>>> solution on its own. Wikipedia could be useful as part of an education
>>> system, but it can't be the whole thing.
>>
>> I just found another statistic. Mobile networks cover roughly 80-90% of the
>> worlds population.
>>
>> For them, using that mobile network is probably the most cost effective
>> solution. For the rest, giving them enough of an education to have the
>> means to come live with the rest of us, is probably the most cost effective
>> solution.
> You also found any statistics on what prices for internet access through
> mobile networks are? What proportion of the world's people can afford a
> internet connection in the first place, and how many can afford a
> connection which is useful to browse wikipedia?
> I'm just curious as I know someone - a westerner - working in Africa and
> finding internet access hideously expensive. (chat and email ok, but she
> tells that she avoids browsing the net as the cost is per downloaded MB)

Last I asked, broadband Internet access in India was about INR 1500 (32
US$), which is at least a week day salary for an Indian worker.
True, in theory, there are Internet cafes, but last I tried (in 2007)
they can be really used for looking at Wikipedia (too slow).

Anyway the priorities are very far from being able to access any online
resources. Even when there is a phone, often it doesn't work because
people can't pay the bill.

Yann
--
http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence
http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
http://fr.wikisource.org/ | Biblioth�que libre
http://wikilivres.info | Documents libres

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

thomas.dalton at gmail

Jun 1, 2009, 3:49 PM

Post #10 of 12 (601 views)
Permalink

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia) [In reply to]

2009/6/1 Yann Forget <yann[at]forget-me.net>:
> Last I asked, broadband Internet access in India was about INR 1500 (32
> US$), which is at least a week day salary for an Indian worker.
> True, in theory, there are Internet cafes, but last I tried (in 2007)
> they can be really used for looking at Wikipedia (too slow).

1500 rupees for how long? And do you mean week's salary or day's
salary? It can't be both! What is the point of these internet cafes if
the connection is too slow to browse a predominantly text website?

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

yann at forget-me

Jun 1, 2009, 4:31 PM

Post #11 of 12 (597 views)
Permalink

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia) [In reply to]

Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/6/1 Yann Forget <yann[at]forget-me.net>:
>> Last I asked, broadband Internet access in India was about INR 1500 (32
>> US$), which is at least a week day salary for an Indian worker.
>> True, in theory, there are Internet cafes, but last I tried (in 2007)
>> they can be really used for looking at Wikipedia (too slow).
>
> 1500 rupees for how long? And do you mean week's salary or day's
> salary? It can't be both! What is the point of these internet cafes if
> the connection is too slow to browse a predominantly text website?

Sorry, INR 1500 for a month.
Well, you can still send a few mail (think it is like a 56 K connection).
But most people have TV, so broadcasting some content could reach a lot
of people.

Yann
--
http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence
http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
http://fr.wikisource.org/ | Biblioth�que libre
http://wikilivres.info | Documents libres

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

thomas.dalton at gmail

Jun 1, 2009, 5:14 PM

Post #12 of 12 (601 views)
Permalink

Re: One Wikipedia Per Person (regarding the distribution of and the ability to read Wikipedia) [In reply to]

2009/6/2 Yann Forget <yann[at]forget-me.net>:
> Thomas Dalton wrote:
>> 2009/6/1 Yann Forget <yann[at]forget-me.net>:
>>> Last I asked, broadband Internet access in India was about INR 1500 (32
>>> US$), which is at least a week day salary for an Indian worker.
>>> True, in theory, there are Internet cafes, but last I tried (in 2007)
>>> they can be really used for looking at Wikipedia (too slow).
>>
>> 1500 rupees for how long? And do you mean week's salary or day's
>> salary? It can't be both! What is the point of these internet cafes if
>> the connection is too slow to browse a predominantly text website?
>
> Sorry, INR 1500 for a month.
> Well, you can still send a few mail (think it is like a 56 K connection).
> But most people have TV, so broadcasting some content could reach a lot
> of people.

While I can't imagine how I managed it now, I don't remember
struggling with browsing Wikipedia on a 56K modem. In fact, I think I
browsed it on a 36.6K modem... If it is what you are used to, it
really doesn't seem that bad.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l[at]lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Index | Next | Previous | View Threaded

Interested in having your list archived? Contact lists@gossamer-threads.com