Mailing List Archive: Wikipedia: Foundation

Setting up Wikinews languages

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erik_moeller at gmx

Dec 2, 2004, 2:02 PM

Post #1 of 8 (197 views)
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Setting up Wikinews languages

Hi,

now that we're about to move demo.wikinews.org to en.wikinews.org, we have
to think about a procedure for setting up other language domains. If any
decision on this matter has already been made by the Board, please let me
know.

It should be noted that on two of the language voting pages, no majority
was reached on starting the project. These are French and Chinese. Others
had very small participation.

In the original proposal, I suggested that Wikinews can be set up in any
accepted Wikimedia project language where there is at least one interested
participant, and that 4 more regulars are required for the language to be
recognized as "official", and for the firsts sysops to be created.

I would like to ask the Board if this procedure is acceptable.

If it is not, one possible alternative would be to immediately set up
language domains for any language where there are more than 10 votes on
the respective voting page on Meta, and more than 50% in favor. This would
currently mean Japanese and German. The vote could be re-opened, and kept
open permanently.

In any case, I would ask for the immediate authorization of
de.wikinews.org, as there was overwhelming support on the German voting
page for starting the project, there has been some German press coverage
on it, and there is already much interest on the German mailing list.

Regards,

Erik

neubau at presroi

Dec 2, 2004, 2:10 PM

Post #2 of 8 (192 views)
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Re: Setting up Wikinews languages [In reply to]

Erik Moeller wrote:

> It should be noted that on two of the language voting pages, no majority
> was reached on starting the project. These are French and Chinese. Others
> had very small participation.

...maybe due to the fact that the poll procedure started with english as
the first page where to place your vote. At least that's what I did.

> In any case, I would ask for the immediate authorization of
> de.wikinews.org, as there was overwhelming support on the German voting
> page for starting the project, there has been some German press coverage
> on it, and there is already much interest on the German mailing list.

I support that.

Mathias

beesley at gmail

Dec 2, 2004, 6:17 PM

Post #3 of 8 (194 views)
Permalink

Re: Setting up Wikinews languages [In reply to]

> Now that we're about to move demo.wikinews.org to en.wikinews.org, we have
> to think about a procedure for setting up other language domains.

I support moving the demo to a URL which makes it clear the project is
not temporary. However, it is also important to make clear to readers
that the project is in Beta to avoid responses to the site being
overly-critical in these early stages. This could be done via a
beta.wikinews.org URL, but this becomes more complicated once other
language domains are added, so perhaps a message in the site notice,
or on the logo, would be more appropriate.

> In the original proposal, I suggested that Wikinews can be set up in any
> accepted Wikimedia project language where there is at least one interested
> participant, and that 4 more regulars are required for the language to be
> recognized as "official", and for the firsts sysops to be created.

There is a proposed policy for new languages at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Policy_for_wikis_in_new_languages

There may be reasons for Wikinews to follow a different procedure to
our other wikis though, since the process of creating a news site
really needs more users than an encyclopedia. The proposed language
policy currently states five users are needed. If this does not
change, then the same policy can be applied to Wikinews.

> If it is not, one possible alternative would be to immediately set up
> language domains for any language where there are more than 10 votes on
> the respective voting page on Meta, and more than 50% in favor.

I don't think the vote on whether to start the project is the same as
a vote to have a language sub-domain once the project has started, so
these votes should be discounted now. Any creation of a new language
Wikinews should follow whatever the procedure is going to be used
without reference to the previous vote.

> In any case, I would ask for the immediate authorization of
> de.wikinews.org...

I haven't read the German mailing list, but from IRC, I had the
impression that there were objections to this and that some wanted to
wait until there was evidence the English version was running well
before starting a German version. Could someone please confirm whether
this is the case or whether there is already enough support for a
German Wikinews?

> The content that is currently on the Demo wiki is in the public domain in
> order to facilitate the migration to any other license.

It would be best to keep the project as public domain for a couple of
weeks to allow users of the project to decide how they might want to
use text from Wikipedia in future, and whether Wikipedians feel they
want to be able to use text from Wikinews in Wikipedia articles. I
would prefer a vote not be held immediately, to give people time to
discuss which projects need to be compatible with each other, and how
external users are likely to want to use Wikinews.

Angela.

erik_moeller at gmx

Dec 2, 2004, 7:54 PM

Post #4 of 8 (192 views)
Permalink

Re: Setting up Wikinews languages [In reply to]

Angela-
>> Now that we're about to move demo.wikinews.org to en.wikinews.org, we have
>> to think about a procedure for setting up other language domains.

> I support moving the demo to a URL which makes it clear the project is
> not temporary. However, it is also important to make clear to readers
> that the project is in Beta to avoid responses to the site being
> overly-critical in these early stages. This could be done via a
> beta.wikinews.org URL, but this becomes more complicated once other
> language domains are added, so perhaps a message in the site notice,
> or on the logo, would be more appropriate.

I agree, a Google-like "BETA" in the logo would be sufficient, IMHO.

> I haven't read the German mailing list, but from IRC, I had the
> impression that there were objections to this

Well, there were objections to the English Wikinews as well. The question
is - do they matter? We're not going to get consensus on any new language
as some people remain opposed to Wikinews on principle. It seems unfair to
start Wikinews in English only when there is a substantial number of
German users who would like to use it now, and when there were many more
objections by English users than by German ones.

Of all the possible options, waiting for full community consensus until we
launch a new language seems the least feasible. There should be objective,
fair criteria for launching a new edition. So from this standpoint, I
suggest adopting the proposed policy currently on Meta.

I disagree that Wikinews requires a larger user base to be useful. It
certainly requires a large userbase in order to present a balanced mix of
news, just like Wikipedia does in order to provide a wide range of
articles. But even a couple of dedicated users can provide reliable news
on the subjects that interest them. Just think of the hundreds of weblogs
which do just that. As long as we do not set up the expectation that
Wikinews can immediately replace CNN in any language, we should be fine.
The BETA marker helps with that.

I believe that the demo phase served the purpose of testing the basic idea
of Wikinews, and that we should now move on to launch it in all languages
where there is a community of users interested in working on it, unless
clear and compelling reasons are cited for not doing so that relate
specifically to that language, and not to the idea of the project itself.

Regards,

Erik

jwales at wikia

Dec 3, 2004, 4:15 AM

Post #5 of 8 (192 views)
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Re: Setting up Wikinews languages [In reply to]

Yes, please set up de. I was interviewed by Die Welt last night, as
was elian. (Erik, I would have pointed them to you, but you weren't
on irc and I didn't have a phone number for you, and she was on a
deadline.)

--Jimbo

Mathias Schindler wrote:

> Erik Moeller wrote:
>
> >It should be noted that on two of the language voting pages, no majority
> >was reached on starting the project. These are French and Chinese. Others
> >had very small participation.
>
> ...maybe due to the fact that the poll procedure started with english as
> the first page where to place your vote. At least that's what I did.
>
> >In any case, I would ask for the immediate authorization of
> >de.wikinews.org, as there was overwhelming support on the German voting
> >page for starting the project, there has been some German press coverage
> >on it, and there is already much interest on the German mailing list.
>
> I support that.
>
> Mathias
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] wikimedia
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

--
"La nèfle est un fruit." - first words of 50,000th article on fr.wikipedia.org

mbimmler at bluemail

Dec 3, 2004, 8:15 AM

Post #6 of 8 (194 views)
Permalink

Re: Setting up Wikinews languages [In reply to]

I support Eric and I think, we should set up de.wikinews as soon as possible
Michael

neubau at presroi

Dec 3, 2004, 8:39 AM

Post #7 of 8 (191 views)
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Re: [Wikinews-l] Re: Setting up Wikinews languages [In reply to]

Angela wrote:

> Could someone please confirm whether
> this is the case or whether there is already enough support for a
> German Wikinews?

I can confirm it. And I also confirm that "already" does not apply.
Support for a vapourous thing won't increase. Please stop assuming that
the success or failure or the whatever of en.wikinews will have a short
term influence on de in case you do.

Mathias

beesley at gmail

Dec 3, 2004, 10:38 AM

Post #8 of 8 (192 views)
Permalink

Re: [Wikinews-l] Re: Setting up Wikinews languages [In reply to]

Mathias Schindler wrote:
> > Could someone please confirm whether
> > this is the case or whether there is already enough support for a
> > German Wikinews?
>
> I can confirm it. And I also confirm that "already" does not apply.
> Support for a vapourous thing won't increase. Please stop assuming that
> the success or failure or the whatever of en.wikinews will have a short
> term influence on de in case you do.

I just want to make it clear that I was never assuming one Wikinews
would influence the success of another in the way that you imply. I
was simply passing on the results of a discussion on IRC, in which I
was led to believe that one of the German mailing lists had made a
decision about this, and I wanted to clarify the situation before the
wiki was created.

Anyhow, the wiki now exists and I have made Elian an administrator
there and Mathias a bureaucrat as per requests via Jimbo.

http://de.wikinews.org/

Angela.

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