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Re: [Wikipedia-l] mo.wikipedia.org when will you stop making joke of us ?

 

 

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me at marcusbuck

Nov 13, 2008, 4:03 PM

Post #1 of 5 (1178 views)
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Re: [Wikipedia-l] mo.wikipedia.org when will you stop making joke of us ?

Mark Williamson hett schreven:
> It would be quite simple. Theoretically, it could be a tab at
> ro.wiki.......... but politically that seems unlikely to garner
> approval from ro.wikipedians.
>
> Mark
>
How many percent of the Moldovan or Transnistrian population or how many
people in absolute numbers are able to read Cyrillic, but are completely
unable to read Latin script?

If that number is "non-marginal", we should provide Cyrillic.

If it is not allowed to write articles in Cyrillic (so only conversion
from Latin to Cyrillic and not the other way round) and if the
conversion button is deactivated by default, but if it is possible to
activate the "show Cyrillic script" button by a gadget and if there is a
little box on the Main Page describing (in Cyrillic) how to activate the
gadget, I guess that should be a solution with which the Latin Romanians
can live and which should enable all Cyrillic-only users to at least
read the Wikipedia.

Marcus Buck

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me at marcusbuck

Nov 13, 2008, 4:14 PM

Post #2 of 5 (1074 views)
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Re: [Wikipedia-l] mo.wikipedia.org when will you stop making joke of us ? [In reply to]

Marcus Buck hett schreven:
> Mark Williamson hett schreven:
>
>> It would be quite simple. Theoretically, it could be a tab at
>> ro.wiki.......... but politically that seems unlikely to garner
>> approval from ro.wikipedians.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
> How many percent of the Moldovan or Transnistrian population or how many
> people in absolute numbers are able to read Cyrillic, but are completely
> unable to read Latin script?
>
> If that number is "non-marginal", we should provide Cyrillic.
>
> If it is not allowed to write articles in Cyrillic (so only conversion
> from Latin to Cyrillic and not the other way round) and if the
> conversion button is deactivated by default, but if it is possible to
> activate the "show Cyrillic script" button by a gadget and if there is a
> little box on the Main Page describing (in Cyrillic) how to activate the
> gadget, I guess that should be a solution with which the Latin Romanians
> can live and which should enable all Cyrillic-only users to at least
> read the Wikipedia.
>
> Marcus Buck
And to make a comment on the original question of this thread:
I agree, that the closed wiki under mo.wikipedia.org should be removed.
If not already done, all content present in that wiki should be
transliterated and integrated into the Romanian
Wikipedia and afterwards mo.wikipedia should be deleted completely.

Marcus Buck

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me at marcusbuck

Nov 13, 2008, 4:38 PM

Post #3 of 5 (1063 views)
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Re: [Wikipedia-l] mo.wikipedia.org when will you stop making joke of us ? [In reply to]

Perhaps it helps the Latin fraction to try to view it the other way
round: Providing Cyrillic does not mean recognition of the Russification
policy of the Russian majority in Transnistria, but it is a measure of
brotherlyness with the brothers in Transnistria who suffer from a system
that does not allow them to learn the preferred Latin script. Making
available the Romanian Wikipedia in Cyrillic allows them to gain
information and knowledge which is not open to them otherwise. This
could help them to emancipate from their yoke. To view Wikipedia
articles in both scripts and to compare them could people help to learn
Latin script at home, even if they weren't or aren't allowed to learn it
in school.

(This all under the presumption, that there is a non-marginal number of
people who are Cyrillic-only. If there are none, I am against providing
Cyrillic)

Marcus Buck

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node.ue at gmail

Nov 13, 2008, 5:41 PM

Post #4 of 5 (1069 views)
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Re: [Wikipedia-l] mo.wikipedia.org when will you stop making joke of us ? [In reply to]

There is no study of how many people cannot read Latin-alphabet
Romanian. However, I suspect that if there are such people, most of
them (except maybe elderly?) are fluent in Russian.

However, I don't think that's the appropriate way to look at the
issue. There is an assumption that Moldavians in Transnistria don't
want to write in the Cyrillic alphabet. This is often accompanied by
an assumption that Moldavians in Transnistria don't support
Transnistrian independence; that they are "enslaved" or that they are
oppressed by the Slavs (mostly Ukrainians and Russians).

Although there is no polling about the preference of script, several
opinion polls by independent Western polling organizations have shown
that most ethnic Moldavians in Transnistria support Transnistrian
independence. Although there are certainly people in Transnistria who
would rather write in Latin, it is naïve to assume that everybody
feels that way, because Latin script preference is seen as a political
choice in support of integration with the Republic of Moldova or even
Romania, which are not widely-held views in Transnistria (most
Moldavians who feel this way have left already, it's not a prison
state after all).

Thousands of children have Cyrillic Moldavian as their medium of
schooling, so although they may also be capable in Latin, their
"native script" is Cyrillic.

We don't approach the issue of, say, Catalan or Basque as "how many
people can't speak Spanish or French" because that's not the point.
Neither, then, do I think we should approach this from the point of
"how many people can't read Latin", but rather "how many people would
prefer Cyrillic". I don't have a number for that, but I'm sure it's
not insignificant.

Mark

2008/11/13 Marcus Buck <me [at] marcusbuck>:
> Mark Williamson hett schreven:
>> It would be quite simple. Theoretically, it could be a tab at
>> ro.wiki.......... but politically that seems unlikely to garner
>> approval from ro.wikipedians.
>>
>> Mark
>>
> How many percent of the Moldovan or Transnistrian population or how many
> people in absolute numbers are able to read Cyrillic, but are completely
> unable to read Latin script?
>
> If that number is "non-marginal", we should provide Cyrillic.
>
> If it is not allowed to write articles in Cyrillic (so only conversion
> from Latin to Cyrillic and not the other way round) and if the
> conversion button is deactivated by default, but if it is possible to
> activate the "show Cyrillic script" button by a gadget and if there is a
> little box on the Main Page describing (in Cyrillic) how to activate the
> gadget, I guess that should be a solution with which the Latin Romanians
> can live and which should enable all Cyrillic-only users to at least
> read the Wikipedia.
>
> Marcus Buck
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Nov 14, 2008, 2:29 AM

Post #5 of 5 (1061 views)
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Re: [Wikipedia-l] mo.wikipedia.org when will you stop making joke of us ? [In reply to]

Hoi,
if it is a requirement that the mo.wikipedia is to be transliterated and
intergrated in the ro.wikipedia, nobody is going to do it. People who
read/write the latin script will be of the opinion that the quality is not
good enough. The people who read/write cyrillic will gain nothing by doing
this, quite the contrary.

The fact of the matter is that as long as there is no transliteration to
Cyrillic there will be reasonable opposition. Even with transliteration, it
can be expected that there will be a bias against people who prefer Cyrillic
as they are seen as the enemy. The conflict of the existence of the
mo.wikipedia has not gone away. By closing the mo.wikipedia a controversial
route has been taken, a route that includes an exit in the re-opening of the
mo.wikipedia when native readers/writers ask for this.
Thanks,
GerardM

On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Marcus Buck <me [at] marcusbuck> wrote:

> Marcus Buck hett schreven:
> > Mark Williamson hett schreven:
> >
> >> It would be quite simple. Theoretically, it could be a tab at
> >> ro.wiki.......... but politically that seems unlikely to garner
> >> approval from ro.wikipedians.
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >>
> > How many percent of the Moldovan or Transnistrian population or how many
> > people in absolute numbers are able to read Cyrillic, but are completely
> > unable to read Latin script?
> >
> > If that number is "non-marginal", we should provide Cyrillic.
> >
> > If it is not allowed to write articles in Cyrillic (so only conversion
> > from Latin to Cyrillic and not the other way round) and if the
> > conversion button is deactivated by default, but if it is possible to
> > activate the "show Cyrillic script" button by a gadget and if there is a
> > little box on the Main Page describing (in Cyrillic) how to activate the
> > gadget, I guess that should be a solution with which the Latin Romanians
> > can live and which should enable all Cyrillic-only users to at least
> > read the Wikipedia.
> >
> > Marcus Buck
> And to make a comment on the original question of this thread:
> I agree, that the closed wiki under mo.wikipedia.org should be removed.
> If not already done, all content present in that wiki should be
> transliterated and integrated into the Romanian
> Wikipedia and afterwards mo.wikipedia should be deleted completely.
>
> Marcus Buck
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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