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ahonc.ua at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 11:18 AM

Post #1 of 28 (3226 views)
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Ukrainian Wikipedia

Hi.

I want to tell about copyright problems in Ukrainian Wikipedia.
(sorry for my non-pure English, I believe that somebody will understand me)

Sysops of uk-wp abuse copyright uploading images with wrong licences. Some
of them uploads non-free images with free licence. Other ones use fairuses
in templates and userpages. And you may upload ANY image and put license
{{Fairuse in}} and image will stay on Wikipedia during months.

Many images has no source or no author information. There are also many
images without fairuse rationale (FUR) and without sources or licences.

There are also articles from Great Soviet Encyclopedia, Ukrainian Soviet
Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia of Ukraine, Mining Encyclopedia and others. I
wrote some RfArb's about copyright for this books, but Arbitrators said me
that they are not under copyright (but I don't think so).

About images:
In 2007, when I was sysop of uk-wp, I tagged hundreds of images and after
few months I deleted them. After my desysoping (I think it was bureaucrats'
mistake) we can observe "deletion wars" between sysops: one of them (Albedo)
deleted images as no licenced and other one (A1) restored them; and last day
they repeat. So some images was deleted and restored three times. Albedo in
January put empty templates for fair-use rationale to hundreds of images and
in February he was desysopped (not only for dealing with images but it was
one of reasons). Then there was many images with nld, nsd templates, and
nobody delete them. I told about it on the IRC channel #wikipedia-ru, but
some of users told about this to Ukrainian admins. After it some of them spy
upon me on IRC channels (stewards and ru) to I don't blurt out something
about copyrights.

So, Ukrainian Wikipedia has many images with wrong licences and some users
reupload these images to Commons but Commons' admins deleted images. And
users don't understand why and blame me (I am Commons' sysop). Btw, after
this my comment:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=11881974 some users
on IRC blame me: "You discredit uk-wp" and some admins don't speak with me
after that.. Then I suffer :'(

But last week I had some conflict with one of sysops (Turzh): he made edit
war (twice revert my edits without comments) and then protect article. I
wrote Arbcom request about it, but it is not accepted yet. In request I
wrote also: "There are hundreds images with nld and nsd. Sysops must deal
with them instead of edit warring". And then he begin "deals" with these
images. I was wandered: on some images he replace {{nld}} with {{Fairuse
in}}, in other ones - replaced CC-BY-SA with PD-self. Then he begins to
upload images with license CC-BY-SA from the site sobory.ru , but author
allows only non-commercial usage: see (OTRS ticket#2008070810020169). I ask
that sysop to delete these images because such permission is unappropriate
but he continued upload images. Today I ask him again to delete it (because
images with free license maybe uploaded by any user to Commons; and I as
Commons' sysop care about purity of project), but he said that he not
uploaded it in Commons, it is uk-wiki, and he does what he want. Then I put
templates {{db}} to some images but he revert tagging, protect some articles
and blocked me for 24 hours. And he wrote ultimatum: "if somebody unblock
Ahonc that I'll leave Wikipedia", that's why another admins fear to unblock
me, because Turzh will leave wiki and later other users will be said about
that sysop: "Oh, look, it is that guy, due to him Turzh left Wikipedia"...

I suggest to emergency desysop of user Turzh (and maybe some others, i.e.
A1, who also abuse EDP); block him for copyright abusing; unblock me.

And also I propose to forbid upload images to uk-wp (such as in Spanish
wiki) because sysops don't know how to deal with them.

--
Anatoliy Honcharov (Анатолій Гончаров)
mailto:Ahonc.ua [at] gmail
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moreschiwikiman at hotmail

Jul 15, 2008, 11:44 AM

Post #2 of 28 (3160 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

Hmm. This is interesting. I suggest we get a posse of commons admins together to check these allegedly suspect images out systematically.

CM

Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.

> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 21:18:39 +0300
> From: ahonc.ua [at] gmail
> To: foundation-l [at] lists
> Subject: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian Wikipedia
>
> Hi.
>
> I want to tell about copyright problems in Ukrainian Wikipedia.
> (sorry for my non-pure English, I believe that somebody will understand me)
>
> Sysops of uk-wp abuse copyright uploading images with wrong licences. Some
> of them uploads non-free images with free licence. Other ones use fairuses
> in templates and userpages. And you may upload ANY image and put license
> {{Fairuse in}} and image will stay on Wikipedia during months.
>
> Many images has no source or no author information. There are also many
> images without fairuse rationale (FUR) and without sources or licences.
>
> There are also articles from Great Soviet Encyclopedia, Ukrainian Soviet
> Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia of Ukraine, Mining Encyclopedia and others. I
> wrote some RfArb's about copyright for this books, but Arbitrators said me
> that they are not under copyright (but I don't think so).
>
> About images:
> In 2007, when I was sysop of uk-wp, I tagged hundreds of images and after
> few months I deleted them. After my desysoping (I think it was bureaucrats'
> mistake) we can observe "deletion wars" between sysops: one of them (Albedo)
> deleted images as no licenced and other one (A1) restored them; and last day
> they repeat. So some images was deleted and restored three times. Albedo in
> January put empty templates for fair-use rationale to hundreds of images and
> in February he was desysopped (not only for dealing with images but it was
> one of reasons). Then there was many images with nld, nsd templates, and
> nobody delete them. I told about it on the IRC channel #wikipedia-ru, but
> some of users told about this to Ukrainian admins. After it some of them spy
> upon me on IRC channels (stewards and ru) to I don't blurt out something
> about copyrights.
>
> So, Ukrainian Wikipedia has many images with wrong licences and some users
> reupload these images to Commons but Commons' admins deleted images. And
> users don't understand why and blame me (I am Commons' sysop). Btw, after
> this my comment:
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=11881974 some users
> on IRC blame me: "You discredit uk-wp" and some admins don't speak with me
> after that.. Then I suffer :'(
>
> But last week I had some conflict with one of sysops (Turzh): he made edit
> war (twice revert my edits without comments) and then protect article. I
> wrote Arbcom request about it, but it is not accepted yet. In request I
> wrote also: "There are hundreds images with nld and nsd. Sysops must deal
> with them instead of edit warring". And then he begin "deals" with these
> images. I was wandered: on some images he replace {{nld}} with {{Fairuse
> in}}, in other ones - replaced CC-BY-SA with PD-self. Then he begins to
> upload images with license CC-BY-SA from the site sobory.ru , but author
> allows only non-commercial usage: see (OTRS ticket#2008070810020169). I ask
> that sysop to delete these images because such permission is unappropriate
> but he continued upload images. Today I ask him again to delete it (because
> images with free license maybe uploaded by any user to Commons; and I as
> Commons' sysop care about purity of project), but he said that he not
> uploaded it in Commons, it is uk-wiki, and he does what he want. Then I put
> templates {{db}} to some images but he revert tagging, protect some articles
> and blocked me for 24 hours. And he wrote ultimatum: "if somebody unblock
> Ahonc that I'll leave Wikipedia", that's why another admins fear to unblock
> me, because Turzh will leave wiki and later other users will be said about
> that sysop: "Oh, look, it is that guy, due to him Turzh left Wikipedia"...
>
> I suggest to emergency desysop of user Turzh (and maybe some others, i.e.
> A1, who also abuse EDP); block him for copyright abusing; unblock me.
>
> And also I propose to forbid upload images to uk-wp (such as in Spanish
> wiki) because sysops don't know how to deal with them.
>
>
> --
> Anatoliy Honcharov (��̦� ��)

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mst at warszawa

Jul 15, 2008, 11:54 AM

Post #3 of 28 (3156 views)
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Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

Анатолій Гончаров pisze:
> Hi.
>
> I want to tell about copyright problems in Ukrainian Wikipedia.
> (sorry for my non-pure English, I believe that somebody will understand me)
>
> Sysops of uk-wp abuse copyright uploading images with wrong licences. Some
> of them uploads non-free images with free licence. Other ones use fairuses
> in templates and userpages. And you may upload ANY image and put license
> {{Fairuse in}} and image will stay on Wikipedia during months.
>

Anatolij,
I understand your problem. The thing is there is different understanding
of Copyright in different law systems. We have similar problem in
pl.wiki with for example, FairUse graphics uploaded on Commons which
cannot be used in pl.wiki due to copyright violations. It is no so easy
to upload article/picture to common store and have it to comply with all
countries law. I would sy it is impossible.

But when it is uploaded onto your wiki then have a local community
agreement about the rules. If the article abuses those rules delete it.

masti

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vasilvv at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 11:59 AM

Post #4 of 28 (3160 views)
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Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

masti writes:
> But when it is uploaded onto your wiki then have a local community
> agreement about the rules. If the article abuses those rules delete it.
>
> masti
As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
copyright problems at all.
--VasilievVV

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moreschiwikiman at hotmail

Jul 15, 2008, 12:08 PM

Post #5 of 28 (3151 views)
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Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

Wouldn't surprise me in the least. Do we have a Macedonian Wikipedia? If so, someone should check the images there. So many of the Macedonians on en are just awful when it comes to copyright. One chap even commented that "it's in the blood". Nobody objected.

CM

Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.

> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:59:38 +0400
> From: vasilvv [at] gmail
> To: foundation-l [at] lists
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian Wikipedia
>
> masti writes:
> > But when it is uploaded onto your wiki then have a local community
> > agreement about the rules. If the article abuses those rules delete it.
> >
> > masti
> As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
> copyright problems at all.
> --VasilievVV
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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pavlo.shevelo at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 12:10 PM

Post #6 of 28 (3157 views)
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Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

> As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
> copyright problems at all.
> --VasilievVV

Well well well - it's exactly what Anatoliy (Ahonc) is trying to
achieve - to rise up the scandal speculating (mixing the facts with
"hints" and emotions).
Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores copyright problems at all" - is
wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty of opportunities to get to
know that (presuming minimal good intentions if any).

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:59 PM, VasilievVV <vasilvv [at] gmail> wrote:
> masti writes:
>> But when it is uploaded onto your wiki then have a local community
>> agreement about the rules. If the article abuses those rules delete it.
>>
>> masti
> As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
> copyright problems at all.
> --VasilievVV
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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moreschiwikiman at hotmail

Jul 15, 2008, 12:13 PM

Post #7 of 28 (3160 views)
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Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

Pish-tush. Less insults, please. Theoretically, this should be very simply to solve. Get some commons admins on it who all grok copyright, find them a translator if need be, and see if copyright vio really is rife on this Wikipedia. We shall see.

CM

Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.

> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:10:46 +0300
> From: pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail
> To: foundation-l [at] lists
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian Wikipedia
>
> > As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
> > copyright problems at all.
> > --VasilievVV
>
> Well well well - it's exactly what Anatoliy (Ahonc) is trying to
> achieve - to rise up the scandal speculating (mixing the facts with
> "hints" and emotions).
> Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores copyright problems at all" - is
> wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty of opportunities to get to
> know that (presuming minimal good intentions if any).
l

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ahonc.ua at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 12:16 PM

Post #8 of 28 (3158 views)
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Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

Pavlo: what did I say wrong? Do you want diffs? You was inactive on
Wikipedia last two months and do nothing with images now you advocate your
colleges-sysops.

2008/7/15 Pavlo Shevelo <pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail>:

> > As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
> > copyright problems at all.
> > --VasilievVV
>
> Well well well - it's exactly what Anatoliy (Ahonc) is trying to
> achieve - to rise up the scandal speculating (mixing the facts with
> "hints" and emotions).
> Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores copyright problems at all" - is
> wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty of opportunities to get to
> know that (presuming minimal good intentions if any).
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:59 PM, VasilievVV <vasilvv [at] gmail> wrote:
> > masti writes:
> >> But when it is uploaded onto your wiki then have a local community
> >> agreement about the rules. If the article abuses those rules delete it.
> >>
> >> masti
> > As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
> > copyright problems at all.
> > --VasilievVV
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l [at] lists
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

--
Анатолій Гончаров
mailto:Ahonc.ua [at] gmail
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vasilvv at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 12:19 PM

Post #9 of 28 (3169 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

Pavlo Shevelo writes:
> Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores copyright problems at all" - is
> wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty of opportunities to get to
> know that (presuming minimal good intentions if any).
>
I'm not claiming it, it's how I understand the situation in Anatoly's
description.
--VasilievVV

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pavlo.shevelo at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 12:23 PM

Post #10 of 28 (3158 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

Christiano,

As you well know (it's well known fact) that each and every
complicated problem has simple, so wrong solution.

As the matter of fact Ahonc, who was desysoped in uk: managed to
became a sysop in commons and uk: community was (and still remains)
just shocked by that :(
I don't think that "some commons admins" - it's right solution.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Christiano Moreschi
<moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail> wrote:
>
> Pish-tush. Less insults, please. Theoretically, this should be very simply to solve. Get some commons admins on it who all grok copyright, find them a translator if need be, and see if copyright vio really is rife on this Wikipedia. We shall see.
>
> CM
>
> Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
>
>> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:10:46 +0300
>> From: pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail
>> To: foundation-l [at] lists
>> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian Wikipedia
>>
>> > As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
>> > copyright problems at all.
>> > --VasilievVV
>>
>> Well well well - it's exactly what Anatoliy (Ahonc) is trying to
>> achieve - to rise up the scandal speculating (mixing the facts with
>> "hints" and emotions).
>> Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores copyright problems at all" - is
>> wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty of opportunities to get to
>> know that (presuming minimal good intentions if any).
> l
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The John Lewis Clearance - save up to 50% with FREE delivery
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> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
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>

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pavlo.shevelo at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 12:26 PM

Post #11 of 28 (3166 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

> I'm not claiming it, it's how I understand the situation in Anatoly's
> description.
His description is far not 100% correct and you (having almost no
language barrier and accessibility to IRC channel etc) is in very best
position not to just rely on his mailing.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:19 PM, VasilievVV <vasilvv [at] gmail> wrote:
> Pavlo Shevelo writes:
>> Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores copyright problems at all" - is
>> wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty of opportunities to get to
>> know that (presuming minimal good intentions if any).
>>
> I'm not claiming it, it's how I understand the situation in Anatoly's
> description.
> --VasilievVV
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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moreschiwikiman at hotmail

Jul 15, 2008, 12:26 PM

Post #12 of 28 (3157 views)
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Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

Umm, why not? Obviously don't pick Ahonc's mates, but commons admins in general tend to be fairly smart, neutral, and very good with copyright. It comes with the job. Unfortunately, if this is a case of "local rules mean we can say fuck copyright", that won't wash. There are, obviously, global standards. Enforced by law, no less.

Regardless, you lot can't audit yourselves. And don't patronize me with platitudes.

CM

Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.

> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:23:21 +0300
> From: pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail
> To: foundation-l [at] lists
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian Wikipedia
>
> Christiano,
>
> As you well know (it's well known fact) that each and every
> complicated problem has simple, so wrong solution.
>
> As the matter of fact Ahonc, who was desysoped in uk: managed to
> became a sysop in commons and uk: community was (and still remains)
> just shocked by that :(
> I don't think that "some commons admins" - it's right solution.
>
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Christiano Moreschi
> <moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail> wrote:
> >
> > Pish-tush. Less insults, please. Theoretically, this should be very simply to solve. Get some commons admins on it who all grok copyright, find them a translator if need be, and see if copyright vio really is rife on this Wikipedia. We shall see.
> >
> > CM
> >
> > Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
> >
> >> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:10:46 +0300
> >> From: pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail
> >> To: foundation-l [at] lists
> >> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian Wikipedia
> >>
> >> > As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
> >> > copyright problems at all.
> >> > --VasilievVV
> >>
> >> Well well well - it's exactly what Anatoliy (Ahonc) is trying to
> >> achieve - to rise up the scandal speculating (mixing the facts with
> >> "hints" and emotions).
> >> Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores copyright problems at all" - is
> >> wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty of opportunities to get to
> >> know that (presuming minimal good intentions if any).
> > l
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The John Lewis Clearance - save up to 50% with FREE delivery
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719806/direct/01/
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l [at] lists
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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ahonc.ua at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 12:31 PM

Post #13 of 28 (3154 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

Pavlo, I have another point of view than more users of uk-wp. I think that
low-quality free image is the best than high-quality FU-image, but more
users think vice versa.

2008/7/15 Pavlo Shevelo <pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail>:

> Christiano,
>
> As you well know (it's well known fact) that each and every
> complicated problem has simple, so wrong solution.
>
> As the matter of fact Ahonc, who was desysoped in uk: managed to
> became a sysop in commons and uk: community was (and still remains)
> just shocked by that :(
> I don't think that "some commons admins" - it's right solution.
>
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Christiano Moreschi
> <moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail> wrote:
> >
> > Pish-tush. Less insults, please. Theoretically, this should be very
> simply to solve. Get some commons admins on it who all grok copyright, find
> them a translator if need be, and see if copyright vio really is rife on
> this Wikipedia. We shall see.
> >
> > CM
> >
> > Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
> >
> >> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:10:46 +0300
> >> From: pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail
> >> To: foundation-l [at] lists
> >> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian Wikipedia
> >>
> >> > As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia
> ignores
> >> > copyright problems at all.
> >> > --VasilievVV
> >>
> >> Well well well - it's exactly what Anatoliy (Ahonc) is trying to
> >> achieve - to rise up the scandal speculating (mixing the facts with
> >> "hints" and emotions).
> >> Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores copyright problems at all" - is
> >> wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty of opportunities to get to
> >> know that (presuming minimal good intentions if any).
> > l
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The John Lewis Clearance - save up to 50% with FREE delivery
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719806/direct/01/
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l [at] lists
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
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--
Анатолій Гончаров
mailto:Ahonc.ua [at] gmail
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pavlo.shevelo at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 12:34 PM

Post #14 of 28 (3157 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

I have no doubts that you have a bunch of diffs as situation with
copyright is not really good in uk:

But you put fact in so speculative way that it generates wrong
conclusions in reader minds.
The best example - you almost completely omit information why you was
desysoped in uk: as well as you hided it when you was nominated to
commons sysop as well as you speculate about Albedo desysoping while
in reality you always vote against him (want some diffs).

And look what ids loveliest your thing: you start personal attacks
immediately - this time against me.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Анатолій Гончаров <ahonc.ua [at] gmail> wrote:
> Pavlo: what did I say wrong? Do you want diffs? You was inactive on
> Wikipedia last two months and do nothing with images now you advocate your
> colleges-sysops.
>
> 2008/7/15 Pavlo Shevelo <pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail>:
>
>> > As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
>> > copyright problems at all.
>> > --VasilievVV
>>
>> Well well well - it's exactly what Anatoliy (Ahonc) is trying to
>> achieve - to rise up the scandal speculating (mixing the facts with
>> "hints" and emotions).
>> Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores copyright problems at all" - is
>> wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty of opportunities to get to
>> know that (presuming minimal good intentions if any).
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:59 PM, VasilievVV <vasilvv [at] gmail> wrote:
>> > masti writes:
>> >> But when it is uploaded onto your wiki then have a local community
>> >> agreement about the rules. If the article abuses those rules delete it.
>> >>
>> >> masti
>> > As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
>> > copyright problems at all.
>> > --VasilievVV
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > foundation-l mailing list
>> > foundation-l [at] lists
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l [at] lists
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Анатолій Гончаров
> mailto:Ahonc.ua [at] gmail
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
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ahonc.ua at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 12:40 PM

Post #15 of 28 (3160 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

I told my point of view, maybe some conclusions are wrong (as for your
opinion). Yes, I vote oppose Albedo, but hear we told about copyright
abusing and you try to change topic and discuss me. Your was inactive last 2
months and I think that your don't know all situation (it's my opinion).

2008/7/15 Pavlo Shevelo <pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail>:

> I have no doubts that you have a bunch of diffs as situation with
> copyright is not really good in uk:
>
> But you put fact in so speculative way that it generates wrong
> conclusions in reader minds.
> The best example - you almost completely omit information why you was
> desysoped in uk: as well as you hided it when you was nominated to
> commons sysop as well as you speculate about Albedo desysoping while
> in reality you always vote against him (want some diffs).
>
> And look what ids loveliest your thing: you start personal attacks
> immediately - this time against me.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Анатолій Гончаров <ahonc.ua [at] gmail>
> wrote:
> > Pavlo: what did I say wrong? Do you want diffs? You was inactive on
> > Wikipedia last two months and do nothing with images now you advocate
> your
> > colleges-sysops.
> >
> > 2008/7/15 Pavlo Shevelo <pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail>:
> >
> >> > As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia
> ignores
> >> > copyright problems at all.
> >> > --VasilievVV
> >>
> >> Well well well - it's exactly what Anatoliy (Ahonc) is trying to
> >> achieve - to rise up the scandal speculating (mixing the facts with
> >> "hints" and emotions).
> >> Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores copyright problems at all" - is
> >> wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty of opportunities to get to
> >> know that (presuming minimal good intentions if any).
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:59 PM, VasilievVV <vasilvv [at] gmail> wrote:
> >> > masti writes:
> >> >> But when it is uploaded onto your wiki then have a local community
> >> >> agreement about the rules. If the article abuses those rules delete
> it.
> >> >>
> >> >> masti
> >> > As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia
> ignores
> >> > copyright problems at all.
> >> > --VasilievVV
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > foundation-l mailing list
> >> > foundation-l [at] lists
> >> > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> foundation-l [at] lists
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Анатолій Гончаров
> > mailto:Ahonc.ua [at] gmail
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l [at] lists
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

--
Анатолій Гончаров
mailto:Ahonc.ua [at] gmail
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l [at] lists
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

birgitte_sb at yahoo

Jul 15, 2008, 12:42 PM

Post #16 of 28 (3157 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

Please stop making this situation more heated and based on poor researched assumptions than it is already. Of course any Wikipedia can run a self-audit of thier situation. We certainly do not need a "posse" of anything to get involved.

Is Alex Spade still active on ru.WP. I remember he had a rather good understanding of copyright. Perhaps he can help advise the local Arbcom on this issue.

Birgitte SB

--- On Tue, 7/15/08, Christiano Moreschi <moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail> wrote:

> From: Christiano Moreschi <moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian Wikipedia
> To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l [at] lists>
> Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 2:26 PM
> Umm, why not? Obviously don't pick Ahonc's mates,
> but commons admins in general tend to be fairly smart,
> neutral, and very good with copyright. It comes with the
> job. Unfortunately, if this is a case of "local rules
> mean we can say fuck copyright", that won't wash.
> There are, obviously, global standards. Enforced by law, no
> less.
>
> Regardless, you lot can't audit yourselves. And
> don't patronize me with platitudes.
>
> CM
>
> Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
>
> > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:23:21 +0300
> > From: pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail
> > To: foundation-l [at] lists
> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian Wikipedia
> >
> > Christiano,
> >
> > As you well know (it's well known fact) that each
> and every
> > complicated problem has simple, so wrong solution.
> >
> > As the matter of fact Ahonc, who was desysoped in uk:
> managed to
> > became a sysop in commons and uk: community was (and
> still remains)
> > just shocked by that :(
> > I don't think that "some commons
> admins" - it's right solution.
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Christiano Moreschi
> > <moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail> wrote:
> > >
> > > Pish-tush. Less insults, please. Theoretically,
> this should be very simply to solve. Get some commons
> admins on it who all grok copyright, find them a translator
> if need be, and see if copyright vio really is rife on this
> Wikipedia. We shall see.
> > >
> > > CM
> > >
> > > Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
> > >
> > >> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:10:46 +0300
> > >> From: pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail
> > >> To: foundation-l [at] lists
> > >> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian
> Wikipedia
> > >>
> > >> > As far as I understood, the problem is
> that Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
> > >> > copyright problems at all.
> > >> > --VasilievVV
> > >>
> > >> Well well well - it's exactly what
> Anatoliy (Ahonc) is trying to
> > >> achieve - to rise up the scandal speculating
> (mixing the facts with
> > >> "hints" and emotions).
> > >> Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
> copyright problems at all" - is
> > >> wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty
> of opportunities to get to
> > >> know that (presuming minimal good intentions
> if any).
> > > l
> > >
> > >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > > The John Lewis Clearance - save up to 50% with
> FREE delivery
> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719806/direct/01/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > foundation-l [at] lists
> > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l [at] lists
> > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Play and win great prizes with Live Search and Kung Fu
> Panda
> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719966/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

_______________________________________________
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pavlo.shevelo at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 12:43 PM

Post #17 of 28 (3157 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

That's your (and your motives) essence as well as essence of all the situation:

"> .. I have another point of view than more users of uk-wp."

... but you are the only one who use Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
in attempt to kick back after you spoil relationship with all (!!!)
others

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Анатолій Гончаров <ahonc.ua [at] gmail> wrote:
I think that
> low-quality free image is the best than high-quality FU-image, but more
> users think vice versa.
>
> 2008/7/15 Pavlo Shevelo <pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail>:
>
>> Christiano,
>>
>> As you well know (it's well known fact) that each and every
>> complicated problem has simple, so wrong solution.
>>
>> As the matter of fact Ahonc, who was desysoped in uk: managed to
>> became a sysop in commons and uk: community was (and still remains)
>> just shocked by that :(
>> I don't think that "some commons admins" - it's right solution.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Christiano Moreschi
>> <moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail> wrote:
>> >
>> > Pish-tush. Less insults, please. Theoretically, this should be very
>> simply to solve. Get some commons admins on it who all grok copyright, find
>> them a translator if need be, and see if copyright vio really is rife on
>> this Wikipedia. We shall see.
>> >
>> > CM
>> >
>> > Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
>> >
>> >> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:10:46 +0300
>> >> From: pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail
>> >> To: foundation-l [at] lists
>> >> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian Wikipedia
>> >>
>> >> > As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia
>> ignores
>> >> > copyright problems at all.
>> >> > --VasilievVV
>> >>
>> >> Well well well - it's exactly what Anatoliy (Ahonc) is trying to
>> >> achieve - to rise up the scandal speculating (mixing the facts with
>> >> "hints" and emotions).
>> >> Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores copyright problems at all" - is
>> >> wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty of opportunities to get to
>> >> know that (presuming minimal good intentions if any).
>> > l
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > The John Lewis Clearance - save up to 50% with FREE delivery
>> > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719806/direct/01/
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > foundation-l mailing list
>> > foundation-l [at] lists
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l [at] lists
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Анатолій Гончаров
> mailto:Ahonc.ua [at] gmail
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l [at] lists
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

ahonc.ua at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 12:58 PM

Post #18 of 28 (3158 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

Your are wrong. If I am only one, how do you read these messages and answer
me? P.S. I subscribed to this mail list only today.

2008/7/15 Pavlo Shevelo <pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail>:

> That's your (and your motives) essence as well as essence of all the
> situation:
>
> "> .. I have another point of view than more users of uk-wp."
>
> ... but you are the only one who use Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> in attempt to kick back after you spoil relationship with all (!!!)
> others
>
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Анатолій Гончаров <ahonc.ua [at] gmail>
> wrote:
> I think that
> > low-quality free image is the best than high-quality FU-image, but more
> > users think vice versa.
> >
> > 2008/7/15 Pavlo Shevelo <pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail>:
> >
> >> Christiano,
> >>
> >> As you well know (it's well known fact) that each and every
> >> complicated problem has simple, so wrong solution.
> >>
> >> As the matter of fact Ahonc, who was desysoped in uk: managed to
> >> became a sysop in commons and uk: community was (and still remains)
> >> just shocked by that :(
> >> I don't think that "some commons admins" - it's right solution.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Christiano Moreschi
> >> <moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Pish-tush. Less insults, please. Theoretically, this should be very
> >> simply to solve. Get some commons admins on it who all grok copyright,
> find
> >> them a translator if need be, and see if copyright vio really is rife on
> >> this Wikipedia. We shall see.
> >> >
> >> > CM
> >> >
> >> > Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
> >> >
> >> >> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:10:46 +0300
> >> >> From: pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail
> >> >> To: foundation-l [at] lists
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian Wikipedia
> >> >>
> >> >> > As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia
> >> ignores
> >> >> > copyright problems at all.
> >> >> > --VasilievVV
> >> >>
> >> >> Well well well - it's exactly what Anatoliy (Ahonc) is trying to
> >> >> achieve - to rise up the scandal speculating (mixing the facts with
> >> >> "hints" and emotions).
> >> >> Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores copyright problems at all" - is
> >> >> wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty of opportunities to get
> to
> >> >> know that (presuming minimal good intentions if any).
> >> > l
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________________________
> >> > The John Lewis Clearance - save up to 50% with FREE delivery
> >> > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719806/direct/01/
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > foundation-l mailing list
> >> > foundation-l [at] lists
> >> > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> foundation-l [at] lists
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Анатолій Гончаров
> > mailto:Ahonc.ua [at] gmail
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l [at] lists
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

--
Анатолій Гончаров
mailto:Ahonc.ua [at] gmail
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l [at] lists
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

pavlo.shevelo at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 1:02 PM

Post #19 of 28 (3158 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

Birgitte,

Thank you very much for right impulse (or it was kick? :) ).
We have rather good cooperation with guys from ru:WP on copyright
issues and we will appreciate a lot Alex Spade hand (never
communicated with him yet).

I stop arguing with Ahonc not because of lack of arguments but because:
- I know from my and our community experience that arguing with him is
senseless (in any meaning) whether it 1:1 or in public, whether
online or offline (we wasted couple of real-life meetings on that).
- impulse from you mentioned;

Sorry that everybody were involved in this incident.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Birgitte SB <birgitte_sb [at] yahoo> wrote:
> Please stop making this situation more heated and based on poor researched assumptions than it is already. Of course any Wikipedia can run a self-audit of thier situation. We certainly do not need a "posse" of anything to get involved.
>
> Is Alex Spade still active on ru.WP. I remember he had a rather good understanding of copyright. Perhaps he can help advise the local Arbcom on this issue.
>
> Birgitte SB
>
>
> --- On Tue, 7/15/08, Christiano Moreschi <moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail> wrote:
>
>> From: Christiano Moreschi <moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail>
>> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian Wikipedia
>> To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l [at] lists>
>> Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 2:26 PM
>> Umm, why not? Obviously don't pick Ahonc's mates,
>> but commons admins in general tend to be fairly smart,
>> neutral, and very good with copyright. It comes with the
>> job. Unfortunately, if this is a case of "local rules
>> mean we can say fuck copyright", that won't wash.
>> There are, obviously, global standards. Enforced by law, no
>> less.
>>
>> Regardless, you lot can't audit yourselves. And
>> don't patronize me with platitudes.
>>
>> CM
>>
>> Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
>>
>> > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:23:21 +0300
>> > From: pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail
>> > To: foundation-l [at] lists
>> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian Wikipedia
>> >
>> > Christiano,
>> >
>> > As you well know (it's well known fact) that each
>> and every
>> > complicated problem has simple, so wrong solution.
>> >
>> > As the matter of fact Ahonc, who was desysoped in uk:
>> managed to
>> > became a sysop in commons and uk: community was (and
>> still remains)
>> > just shocked by that :(
>> > I don't think that "some commons
>> admins" - it's right solution.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Christiano Moreschi
>> > <moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Pish-tush. Less insults, please. Theoretically,
>> this should be very simply to solve. Get some commons
>> admins on it who all grok copyright, find them a translator
>> if need be, and see if copyright vio really is rife on this
>> Wikipedia. We shall see.
>> > >
>> > > CM
>> > >
>> > > Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
>> > >
>> > >> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:10:46 +0300
>> > >> From: pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail
>> > >> To: foundation-l [at] lists
>> > >> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian
>> Wikipedia
>> > >>
>> > >> > As far as I understood, the problem is
>> that Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
>> > >> > copyright problems at all.
>> > >> > --VasilievVV
>> > >>
>> > >> Well well well - it's exactly what
>> Anatoliy (Ahonc) is trying to
>> > >> achieve - to rise up the scandal speculating
>> (mixing the facts with
>> > >> "hints" and emotions).
>> > >> Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
>> copyright problems at all" - is
>> > >> wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty
>> of opportunities to get to
>> > >> know that (presuming minimal good intentions
>> if any).
>> > > l
>> > >
>> > >
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> > > The John Lewis Clearance - save up to 50% with
>> FREE delivery
>> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719806/direct/01/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > foundation-l mailing list
>> > > foundation-l [at] lists
>> > > Unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>> > >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > foundation-l mailing list
>> > foundation-l [at] lists
>> > Unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Play and win great prizes with Live Search and Kung Fu
>> Panda
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719966/direct/01/
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l [at] lists
>> Unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
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Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

ahonc.ua at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 1:02 PM

Post #20 of 28 (3158 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

Pavlo: Am I bad Commons' admin? Have your some claims to me? If no, stop
swear me (what you do in almost every discussion with me) and talk about
topic.

2008/7/15 Pavlo Shevelo <pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail>:

> I have no doubts that you have a bunch of diffs as situation with
> copyright is not really good in uk:
>
> But you put fact in so speculative way that it generates wrong
> conclusions in reader minds.
> The best example - you almost completely omit information why you was
> desysoped in uk: as well as you hided it when you was nominated to
> commons sysop as well as you speculate about Albedo desysoping while
> in reality you always vote against him (want some diffs).
>
> And look what ids loveliest your thing: you start personal attacks
> immediately - this time against me.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Анатолій Гончаров <ahonc.ua [at] gmail>
> wrote:
> > Pavlo: what did I say wrong? Do you want diffs? You was inactive on
> > Wikipedia last two months and do nothing with images now you advocate
> your
> > colleges-sysops.
> >
> > 2008/7/15 Pavlo Shevelo <pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail>:
> >
> >> > As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia
> ignores
> >> > copyright problems at all.
> >> > --VasilievVV
> >>
> >> Well well well - it's exactly what Anatoliy (Ahonc) is trying to
> >> achieve - to rise up the scandal speculating (mixing the facts with
> >> "hints" and emotions).
> >> Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores copyright problems at all" - is
> >> wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty of opportunities to get to
> >> know that (presuming minimal good intentions if any).
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:59 PM, VasilievVV <vasilvv [at] gmail> wrote:
> >> > masti writes:
> >> >> But when it is uploaded onto your wiki then have a local community
> >> >> agreement about the rules. If the article abuses those rules delete
> it.
> >> >>
> >> >> masti
> >> > As far as I understood, the problem is that Ukrainian Wikipedia
> ignores
> >> > copyright problems at all.
> >> > --VasilievVV
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > foundation-l mailing list
> >> > foundation-l [at] lists
> >> > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> foundation-l [at] lists
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Анатолій Гончаров
> > mailto:Ahonc.ua [at] gmail
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l [at] lists
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

--
Анатолій Гончаров
mailto:Ahonc.ua [at] gmail
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Jul 15, 2008, 1:30 PM

Post #21 of 28 (3155 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

Pavlo: don't see in the name of all community. At the last admin nomination
I get 62% of votes support (but not promoted). So some users believe me. And
about your promise: I don't believe you. You promise help me with Boardvote
translation but ... you translate nothing, and some text is untranslated
yet. You promise user Lvova some month ago to run the bot Голем on uk-wiki
and she asked me this week two times "Where is Pavlosh? He promise me to run
the bot. Why did he not do it yet?" But I say that I don't know where is
pavlosh. He doesn't speak with me and he is inactive. That's why I don't
believe you.

2008/7/15 Pavlo Shevelo <pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail>:

> Birgitte,
>
> Thank you very much for right impulse (or it was kick? :) ).
> We have rather good cooperation with guys from ru:WP on copyright
> issues and we will appreciate a lot Alex Spade hand (never
> communicated with him yet).
>
> I stop arguing with Ahonc not because of lack of arguments but because:
> - I know from my and our community experience that arguing with him is
> senseless (in any meaning) whether it 1:1 or in public, whether
> online or offline (we wasted couple of real-life meetings on that).
> - impulse from you mentioned;
>
>
> Sorry that everybody were involved in this incident.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Birgitte SB <birgitte_sb [at] yahoo>
> wrote:
> > Please stop making this situation more heated and based on poor
> researched assumptions than it is already. Of course any Wikipedia can run
> a self-audit of thier situation. We certainly do not need a "posse" of
> anything to get involved.
> >
> > Is Alex Spade still active on ru.WP. I remember he had a rather good
> understanding of copyright. Perhaps he can help advise the local Arbcom on
> this issue.
> >
> > Birgitte SB
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 7/15/08, Christiano Moreschi <moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Christiano Moreschi <moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail>
> >> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian Wikipedia
> >> To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <
> foundation-l [at] lists>
> >> Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 2:26 PM
> >> Umm, why not? Obviously don't pick Ahonc's mates,
> >> but commons admins in general tend to be fairly smart,
> >> neutral, and very good with copyright. It comes with the
> >> job. Unfortunately, if this is a case of "local rules
> >> mean we can say fuck copyright", that won't wash.
> >> There are, obviously, global standards. Enforced by law, no
> >> less.
> >>
> >> Regardless, you lot can't audit yourselves. And
> >> don't patronize me with platitudes.
> >>
> >> CM
> >>
> >> Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
> >>
> >> > Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:23:21 +0300
> >> > From: pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail
> >> > To: foundation-l [at] lists
> >> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian Wikipedia
> >> >
> >> > Christiano,
> >> >
> >> > As you well know (it's well known fact) that each
> >> and every
> >> > complicated problem has simple, so wrong solution.
> >> >
> >> > As the matter of fact Ahonc, who was desysoped in uk:
> >> managed to
> >> > became a sysop in commons and uk: community was (and
> >> still remains)
> >> > just shocked by that :(
> >> > I don't think that "some commons
> >> admins" - it's right solution.
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Christiano Moreschi
> >> > <moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Pish-tush. Less insults, please. Theoretically,
> >> this should be very simply to solve. Get some commons
> >> admins on it who all grok copyright, find them a translator
> >> if need be, and see if copyright vio really is rife on this
> >> Wikipedia. We shall see.
> >> > >
> >> > > CM
> >> > >
> >> > > Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
> >> > >
> >> > >> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:10:46 +0300
> >> > >> From: pavlo.shevelo [at] gmail
> >> > >> To: foundation-l [at] lists
> >> > >> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ukrainian
> >> Wikipedia
> >> > >>
> >> > >> > As far as I understood, the problem is
> >> that Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
> >> > >> > copyright problems at all.
> >> > >> > --VasilievVV
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Well well well - it's exactly what
> >> Anatoliy (Ahonc) is trying to
> >> > >> achieve - to rise up the scandal speculating
> >> (mixing the facts with
> >> > >> "hints" and emotions).
> >> > >> Anyhow "Ukrainian Wikipedia ignores
> >> copyright problems at all" - is
> >> > >> wrong claim and Mr. VasilievVV has a plenty
> >> of opportunities to get to
> >> > >> know that (presuming minimal good intentions
> >> if any).
> >> > > l
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> > > The John Lewis Clearance - save up to 50% with
> >> FREE delivery
> >> > > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719806/direct/01/
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > foundation-l mailing list
> >> > > foundation-l [at] lists
> >> > > Unsubscribe:
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > foundation-l mailing list
> >> > foundation-l [at] lists
> >> > Unsubscribe:
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Play and win great prizes with Live Search and Kung Fu
> >> Panda
> >> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719966/direct/01/
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> >
> >
> >
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--
Анатолій Гончаров
mailto:Ahonc.ua [at] gmail
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ahonc.ua at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 1:31 PM

Post #22 of 28 (3163 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

I mistaked: *don't say

Pavlo: don't see in the name of all community. At the last admin nomination
> I get 62% of votes support (but not promoted). So some users believe me.
>

Anatoliy Honcharov
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mbimmler at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 2:06 PM

Post #23 of 28 (3159 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Christiano Moreschi
<moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail> wrote:
>
> Wouldn't surprise me in the least. Do we have a Macedonian Wikipedia? If so, someone should check the images there. So many of the Macedonians on en are just awful when it comes to copyright. One chap even commented that "it's in the blood". Nobody objected.
>

What the hell is this about?

Christiano, this thread is hopeless enough (as most of us can't
participate in the discussion anyway due to lack of fluency in
Ukrainian), so please don't go about spreading rumors and general
allegations on the Macedonian Wikipedia in corpore.
I apologise if I'm misreading something but the "It's in the blood"
thing sounds utterly racist to me and this will be not tolerated on
this list.

Really, everybody, take a step back. I think that this is an issue
where (see above) foundation-l is not really the place to find a
solution. If Brigitte's solution is acceptable to all, I'd recommend
that rather such a way of "mediation" or "third party opinion" be
pursued, anything else seems a bit pointless.

Thanks,
Michael

--
Michael Bimmler
mbimmler [at] gmail

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geniice at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 5:49 PM

Post #24 of 28 (3155 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

2008/7/15 Christiano Moreschi <moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail>:
>
> Hmm. This is interesting. I suggest we get a posse of commons admins together to check these allegedly suspect images out systematically.
>
> CM

A full scale scan is beyond the resources of commons.

So lets see what sampling gets us. Well from what I can see there has
clearly been some attempt made. Copyright tags is exist and are widely
used. Standard fair use (book covers logos and the like) seems to be
delt with fairly well on the other hand there is a fair amount of
replaceable fair use and some abuse of the {{GFDL}} tag. Of the 50
images sampled I think the following have issues (remember I can't
speak the language in question)

http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Aya.jpg
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Twenty_Minutes_of_Love_%281914%29.jpg
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Abak.jpg
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Etwas_Unders.JPG
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Tubbataha_Reef.jpg
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Ket.JPG
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Odn_shevron_pryh_LRG.jpg
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:%D0%84%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BF_%D0%93%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%96%D0%B9_%D0%A5%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD.jpg
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Anctarctic_exploration_map.jpg
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:%D0%A8%D1%83%D1%85%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87_%D0%AE%D1%80%D1%96%D0%B9.jpg
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Barri-Gotic-ukr.gif
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Art-sandcastle.jpg
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:URE_t1_020a_pic.jpg
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Mellotron.jpg
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:%D0%9A%D0%BB%D1%96%D1%82%D1%8C.JPG

While that may seem like a lot a single run of 50 doesn't give us a
very broad picture.

--
geni

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philippebeaudette at gmail

Jul 15, 2008, 6:03 PM

Post #25 of 28 (3156 views)
Permalink

Re: Ukrainian Wikipedia [In reply to]

Well that's 15 or 16 out of 50... fully 30%? That's pretty significant.

_____________________
Philippe Beaudette
Tulsa, OK
philippebeaudette [at] gmail

On Jul 15, 2008, at 7:49 PM, geni wrote:

> 2008/7/15 Christiano Moreschi <moreschiwikiman [at] hotmail>:
>>
>> Hmm. This is interesting. I suggest we get a posse of commons
>> admins together to check these allegedly suspect images out
>> systematically.
>>
>> CM
>
> A full scale scan is beyond the resources of commons.
>
> So lets see what sampling gets us. Well from what I can see there has
> clearly been some attempt made. Copyright tags is exist and are widely
> used. Standard fair use (book covers logos and the like) seems to be
> delt with fairly well on the other hand there is a fair amount of
> replaceable fair use and some abuse of the {{GFDL}} tag. Of the 50
> images sampled I think the following have issues (remember I can't
> speak the language in question)
>
> http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Aya.jpg
> http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Twenty_Minutes_of_Love_%281914%29.jpg
> http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Abak.jpg
> http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Etwas_Unders.JPG
> http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Tubbataha_Reef.jpg
> http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Ket.JPG
> http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Odn_shevron_pryh_LRG.jpg
> http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:%D0%84%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BF_%D0%93%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%96%D0%B9_%D0%A5%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD.jpg
> http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Anctarctic_exploration_map.jpg
> http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:%D0%A8%D1%83%D1%85%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87_%D0%AE%D1%80%D1%96%D0%B9.jpg
> http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Barri-Gotic-ukr.gif
> http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Art-sandcastle.jpg
> http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:URE_t1_020a_pic.jpg
> http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:Mellotron.jpg
> http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F:%D0%9A%D0%BB%D1%96%D1%82%D1%8C.JPG
>
>
> While that may seem like a lot a single run of 50 doesn't give us a
> very broad picture.
>
>
> --
> geni
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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