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Process for a project to request a setting

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Wing.Philopp at gmx

Jul 7, 2008, 9:13 AM

Post #1 of 11 (691 views)
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Process for a project to request a setting

Hello,

as far as I know there are settings for WikiMedia-projekts that can only be done by certain developpers. An example is the change for autoconfirmed days limit. So if the projects want such a setting changed, it must ask a developper to do that.

Do we have such a mechanism? Where should the project request such a setting and who cares about these requests?

Greetings
Ting
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mbimmler at gmail

Jul 7, 2008, 9:16 AM

Post #2 of 11 (670 views)
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Re: Process for a project to request a setting [In reply to]

On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Ting Chen <Wing.Philopp [at] gmx> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> as far as I know there are settings for WikiMedia-projekts that can only be done by certain developpers. An example is the change for autoconfirmed days limit. So if the projects want such a setting changed, it must ask a developper to do that.
>
> Do we have such a mechanism? Where should the project request such a setting and who cares about these requests?
>

Yes, this is done via Bugzilla (bugzilla.wikimedia.org)

Use https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Wikimedia to
enter a new bug and add 'shell' in the box of keywords (towards the
bottom)

Michael

--
Michael Bimmler
mbimmler [at] gmail

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ktc at ktchan

Jul 7, 2008, 11:24 AM

Post #3 of 11 (654 views)
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Re: Process for a project to request a setting [In reply to]

On Mon, 2008-07-07 at 18:16 +0200, Michael Bimmler wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Ting Chen <Wing.Philopp [at] gmx> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > as far as I know there are settings for WikiMedia-projekts that can only be done by certain developpers. An example is the change for autoconfirmed days limit. So if the projects want such a setting changed, it must ask a developper to do that.
> >
> > Do we have such a mechanism? Where should the project request such a setting and who cares about these requests?
> >
>
>
> Yes, this is done via Bugzilla (bugzilla.wikimedia.org)
>
> Use https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Wikimedia to
> enter a new bug and add 'shell' in the box of keywords (towards the
> bottom)
>
> Michael
>

For most (all?) changes, the dev will ask for a link to an on-wiki
discussion which show the changes being asked for has consensus on that
project.

KTC

--
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
- Heinrich Heine

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Wing.Philopp at gmx

Jul 7, 2008, 11:19 PM

Post #4 of 11 (645 views)
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Re: Process for a project to request a setting [In reply to]

Thanks for your answer. This process does not seem to work well. Here is an example:

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14624

Two months already and no response. Also no request for a link. And see the last comment from es-wp, so it seems to be a general problem that can potentially hit every project. My impression is that there are no body who feel responsible for this. If it is so, I think we should set up a responsible person for this. As far as I know it doesn't happen every day and it is surely not a thing that takes a lot of time.

Any opinion or suggestions?

Ting.

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:24:37 +0100
> Von: Kwan Ting Chan <ktc [at] ktchan>
> An: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l [at] lists>
> Betreff: Re: [Foundation-l] Process for a project to request a setting

> On Mon, 2008-07-07 at 18:16 +0200, Michael Bimmler wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Ting Chen <Wing.Philopp [at] gmx> wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > as far as I know there are settings for WikiMedia-projekts that can
> only be done by certain developpers. An example is the change for
> autoconfirmed days limit. So if the projects want such a setting changed, it must ask
> a developper to do that.
> > >
> > > Do we have such a mechanism? Where should the project request such a
> setting and who cares about these requests?
> > >
> >
> >
> > Yes, this is done via Bugzilla (bugzilla.wikimedia.org)
> >
> > Use https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Wikimedia to
> > enter a new bug and add 'shell' in the box of keywords (towards the
> > bottom)
> >
> > Michael
> >
>
> For most (all?) changes, the dev will ask for a link to an on-wiki
> discussion which show the changes being asked for has consensus on that
> project.
>
> KTC
>
> --
> Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
> - Heinrich Heine

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vasilvv at gmail

Jul 8, 2008, 2:18 AM

Post #5 of 11 (649 views)
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Re: Process for a project to request a setting [In reply to]

Ting Chen writes:
> Thanks for your answer. This process does not seem to work well. Here is an example:
>
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14624
>
> Two months already and no response. Also no request for a link. And see the last comment from es-wp, so it seems to be a general problem that can potentially hit every project. My impression is that there are no body who feel responsible for this. If it is so, I think we should set up a responsible person for this. As far as I know it doesn't happen every day and it is surely not a thing that takes a lot of time.
>
> Any opinion or suggestions?
>
> Ting.
>
That is from my point of view because of a lack of shell developers we
have. Usually Jens and sometimes Brion or Tim handles those bugs, but
all of them are very busy, that's why we have such an awful delay.
--VasilievVVV

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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Jul 8, 2008, 2:26 AM

Post #6 of 11 (639 views)
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Re: Process for a project to request a setting [In reply to]

Hoi,
I would say that it is a matter of priorities. As far as I am aware the
priorities are very much one of:

- KEEP THEM ROLLING
- We are volunteers and we do as we like

Consequently, projects can take multiple years, things do not get done or
done whenever. When the WMF has more developer capacity, it may make it a
priority to prevent these bugs from bugging us.

Thanks,
GerardM

On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 11:18 AM, VasilievVV <vasilvv [at] gmail> wrote:

> Ting Chen writes:
> > Thanks for your answer. This process does not seem to work well. Here is
> an example:
> >
> > https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14624
> >
> > Two months already and no response. Also no request for a link. And see
> the last comment from es-wp, so it seems to be a general problem that can
> potentially hit every project. My impression is that there are no body who
> feel responsible for this. If it is so, I think we should set up a
> responsible person for this. As far as I know it doesn't happen every day
> and it is surely not a thing that takes a lot of time.
> >
> > Any opinion or suggestions?
> >
> > Ting.
> >
> That is from my point of view because of a lack of shell developers we
> have. Usually Jens and sometimes Brion or Tim handles those bugs, but
> all of them are very busy, that's why we have such an awful delay.
> --VasilievVVV
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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vasilvv at gmail

Jul 8, 2008, 2:52 AM

Post #7 of 11 (648 views)
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Re: Process for a project to request a setting [In reply to]

Gerard Meijssen writes:
> Hoi,
> I would say that it is a matter of priorities. As far as I am aware the
> priorities are very much one of:
>
> - KEEP THEM ROLLING
> - We are volunteers and we do as we like
>
> Consequently, projects can take multiple years, things do not get done or
> done whenever. When the WMF has more developer capacity, it may make it a
> priority to prevent these bugs from bugging us.
>
> Thanks,
> GerardM
Another option may be to allow stewards to change such configuration
using web-interface like Configure [1].

[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Configure
--VasilievVV

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Wing.Philopp at gmx

Jul 8, 2008, 5:22 AM

Post #8 of 11 (647 views)
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Re: Process for a project to request a setting [In reply to]

> > I would say that it is a matter of priorities. As far as I am aware the
> > priorities are very much one of:
> >
> > - KEEP THEM ROLLING
> > - We are volunteers and we do as we like
> >
> > Consequently, projects can take multiple years, things do not get done or
> > done whenever. When the WMF has more developer capacity, it may make it a
> > priority to prevent these bugs from bugging us.

At first I don't consider this as a bug. So I am a little confused to find it in Bugzilla. It is (for my understanding) a request of a setting.

And I see this as part of KEEP THEM ROLLING.

As I have said, it is not a day consuming thing and it doesn't happen so often. So I suppose it should be possible to name a responsible person to handle this. If a setting is not meaningful, because it is too difficult, or because it is still in testing phase, it would also not be time consuming to add a comment like "This feature is not yet free for every project". People are not angry because they don't get a feature, they are angry because they don't get a response.

> Another option may be to allow stewards to change such configuration
> using web-interface like Configure [1].
>
> [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Configure

This can possibly release such things to the projects. But this extension is not used in our projects, right? Is it then possible that the bureaucrats only can change a bunch of settings or would they have the right to set everything?

Regards
Ting
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birgitte_sb at yahoo

Jul 8, 2008, 5:26 AM

Post #9 of 11 (637 views)
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Re: Process for a project to request a setting [In reply to]

As someone who has complained about the system in the past, I will explain what I have learned and hope others correct me if anything is in error. First you are looking at bugzilla from the wrong angle. It is not necessarily a mechanism to make certain requests are done so much as one to make certain requests are tracked. To make certain a request is actually done often requires contacting a developer directly and asking him to personally take care of your request linking to the bugzilla page. This personal request may have to be repeated a few times on different occasions till you find a developer at a convenient time. (I have also heard building shrines to these demi-gods is helpful) But all joking aside there is not really any mechanism in place to make sure requests get attention on an organized fashion. It is more a matter of whoever is able to demand attention; receiving it.

Birgitte SB

--- On Tue, 7/8/08, Ting Chen <Wing.Philopp [at] gmx> wrote:

> From: Ting Chen <Wing.Philopp [at] gmx>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Process for a project to request a setting
> To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l [at] lists>
> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 1:19 AM
> Thanks for your answer. This process does not seem to work
> well. Here is an example:
>
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14624
>
> Two months already and no response. Also no request for a
> link. And see the last comment from es-wp, so it seems to
> be a general problem that can potentially hit every
> project. My impression is that there are no body who feel
> responsible for this. If it is so, I think we should set up
> a responsible person for this. As far as I know it
> doesn't happen every day and it is surely not a thing
> that takes a lot of time.
>
> Any opinion or suggestions?
>
> Ting.
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > Datum: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:24:37 +0100
> > Von: Kwan Ting Chan <ktc [at] ktchan>
> > An: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <foundation-l [at] lists>
> > Betreff: Re: [Foundation-l] Process for a project to
> request a setting
>
> > On Mon, 2008-07-07 at 18:16 +0200, Michael Bimmler
> wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Ting Chen
> <Wing.Philopp [at] gmx> wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > as far as I know there are settings for
> WikiMedia-projekts that can
> > only be done by certain developpers. An example is the
> change for
> > autoconfirmed days limit. So if the projects want such
> a setting changed, it must ask
> > a developper to do that.
> > > >
> > > > Do we have such a mechanism? Where should
> the project request such a
> > setting and who cares about these requests?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, this is done via Bugzilla
> (bugzilla.wikimedia.org)
> > >
> > > Use
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Wikimedia
> to
> > > enter a new bug and add 'shell' in the
> box of keywords (towards the
> > > bottom)
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> >
> > For most (all?) changes, the dev will ask for a link
> to an on-wiki
> > discussion which show the changes being asked for has
> consensus on that
> > project.
> >
> > KTC
> >
> > --
> > Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
> > - Heinrich Heine
>
> --
> GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen
> Interessen!
> Jetzt dabei sein:
> http://www.shortview.de/wasistshortview.php?mc=sv_ext_mf [at] gm
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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bryan.tongminh at gmail

Jul 8, 2008, 5:38 AM

Post #10 of 11 (634 views)
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Re: Process for a project to request a setting [In reply to]

On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 2:22 PM, Ting Chen <Wing.Philopp [at] gmx> wrote:
>
>> > I would say that it is a matter of priorities. As far as I am aware the
>> > priorities are very much one of:
>> >
>> > - KEEP THEM ROLLING
>> > - We are volunteers and we do as we like
>> >
>> > Consequently, projects can take multiple years, things do not get done or
>> > done whenever. When the WMF has more developer capacity, it may make it a
>> > priority to prevent these bugs from bugging us.
>
> At first I don't consider this as a bug. So I am a little confused to find it in Bugzilla. It is (for my understanding) a request of a setting.
>
You're confused about bugzilla. Despite its name it is not only the
place for bug reports but also feature requests and site requests.

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Simetrical+wikilist at gmail

Jul 8, 2008, 8:21 AM

Post #11 of 11 (633 views)
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Re: Process for a project to request a setting [In reply to]

On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 2:19 AM, Ting Chen <Wing.Philopp [at] gmx> wrote:
> Thanks for your answer. This process does not seem to work well. Here is an example:
>
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14624
>
> Two months already and no response. Also no request for a link. And see the last comment from es-wp, so it seems to be a general problem that can potentially hit every project. My impression is that there are no body who feel responsible for this. If it is so, I think we should set up a responsible person for this. As far as I know it doesn't happen every day and it is surely not a thing that takes a lot of time.
>
> Any opinion or suggestions?

It does take a fair amount of time to handle all the requests
promptly, and by all reports it's horribly boring. The basic problem
is that with the current setup, anyone with the ability to institute
these changes has root database access, which requires an *extremely*
high level of trust (since anyone with such access can change anything
on any wiki untraceably, including logs and histories). So it's not
like a few new people could just be given these rights so they can
handle it. It used to be that Brion would reliably fulfill all the
shell bugs every now and again, but he's too busy for that these days.

One solution, and probably the most sensible, would be to use an
extension like Configure that allows people with much lesser access
levels to change these settings. The other would be to assign the job
to someone like that new junior developer we're supposed to getting,
which is possibly less reasonable but probably easier (once we do get
some more tech employees who can be assigned stuff like this).

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