Mailing List Archive: Wikipedia: Foundation

Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ?

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nguerin.zurich at gmail

Jun 1, 2008, 2:07 PM

Post #1 of 24 (2057 views)
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Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ?

Sorry for this title a bit provocating,
but i just wonder how a candidate for the board election 2008
(User:Thekohser, see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thekohser ) can run
with :

* being banned indefinitely on en.wp (see :
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Thekohser)
* having at least 34 blocked sockpuppets on en.wp (see :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_MyWikiBiz )

Did somebody already checked it, or is it really allowed to vote for such
candidate ?

Best Regards

Guérin Nicolas
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thomas.dalton at gmail

Jun 1, 2008, 2:11 PM

Post #2 of 24 (1981 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

On 01/06/2008, Nicolas GuÃ©rin <nguerin.zurich [at] gmail> wrote:
> Sorry for this title a bit provocating,
> but i just wonder how a candidate for the board election 2008
> (User:Thekohser, see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thekohser ) can run
> with :
>
> * being banned indefinitely on en.wp (see :
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Thekohser)
> * having at least 34 blocked sockpuppets on en.wp (see :
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_MyWikiBiz )
>
> Did somebody already checked it, or is it really allowed to vote for such
> candidate ?

I don't know of any of the candidacy requirements that would be
violated by any of that. I would hope people would take it into
account when voting, but if people want to vote for someone that's
been banned from a project, they're allowed to do so. One project
can't dictate whether or not someone can stand for the board of the
whole foundation, can they?
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majorly.wiki at googlemail

Jun 1, 2008, 2:15 PM

Post #3 of 24 (1984 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

2008/6/1 Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton [at] gmail>:

> On 01/06/2008, Nicolas Guérin <nguerin.zurich [at] gmail> wrote:
> > Sorry for this title a bit provocating,
> > but i just wonder how a candidate for the board election 2008
> > (User:Thekohser, see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thekohser )
> can run
> > with :
> >
> > * being banned indefinitely on en.wp (see :
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Thekohser
> )
> > * having at least 34 blocked sockpuppets on en.wp (see :
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_MyWikiBiz )
> >
> > Did somebody already checked it, or is it really allowed to vote for
> such
> > candidate ?
>
> I don't know of any of the candidacy requirements that would be
> violated by any of that. I would hope people would take it into
> account when voting, but if people want to vote for someone that's
> been banned from a project, they're allowed to do so. One project
> can't dictate whether or not someone can stand for the board of the
> whole foundation, can they?
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

No. Many users are banned on enwiki that are very welcome on other projects.
An example is Poetlister, who until recently was banned from enwiki. She is
a bureaucrat on en.wikiquote.

--
Al Tally
(User:Majorly)
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pn007a2145 at blueyonder

Jun 1, 2008, 2:22 PM

Post #4 of 24 (1993 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Tally" <majorly.wiki [at] googlemail>
To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l [at] lists>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ?

2008/6/1 Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton [at] gmail>:

> On 01/06/2008, Nicolas Guérin <nguerin.zurich [at] gmail> wrote:
> > Sorry for this title a bit provocating,
> > but i just wonder how a candidate for the board election 2008
> > (User:Thekohser, see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thekohser )
> can run
> > with :
> >
> > * being banned indefinitely on en.wp (see :
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Thekohser
> )
> > * having at least 34 blocked sockpuppets on en.wp (see :
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_MyWikiBiz )
> >
> > Did somebody already checked it, or is it really allowed to vote for
> such
> > candidate ?
>
> I don't know of any of the candidacy requirements that would be
> violated by any of that. I would hope people would take it into
> account when voting, but if people want to vote for someone that's
> been banned from a project, they're allowed to do so. One project
> can't dictate whether or not someone can stand for the board of the
> whole foundation, can they?
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

No. Many users are banned on enwiki that are very welcome on other projects.
An example is Poetlister, who until recently was banned from enwiki. She is
a bureaucrat on en.wikiquote.

--
Al Tally
(User:Majorly)

I thought I recognised the name; but he claims to be active on en:wikipedia,
which cannot be true.
Not everyone will check this out, particularly from other wikis, and
therefore this must be miselading.
Notwithstanding his bona fides elsewhere, should this not be made more
apparent to voters?

[[User:Rodhullandemu]]
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thomas.dalton at gmail

Jun 1, 2008, 2:23 PM

Post #5 of 24 (1980 views)
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Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

> > I don't know of any of the candidacy requirements that would be
> > violated by any of that. I would hope people would take it into
> > account when voting, but if people want to vote for someone that's
> > been banned from a project, they're allowed to do so. One project
> > can't dictate whether or not someone can stand for the board of the
> > whole foundation, can they?
>
> No. Many users are banned on enwiki that are very welcome on other projects.
> An example is Poetlister, who until recently was banned from enwiki. She is
> a bureaucrat on en.wikiquote.

Just to clarify, that was a rhetorical question.

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nguerin.zurich at gmail

Jun 1, 2008, 2:34 PM

Post #6 of 24 (1981 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

Just that the candidate gives on his candidature page links to his blocked
sockpuppets, and nothing else.
So it is impossible to know if he's really activ on another project.

Guérin Nicolas

2008/6/1 Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton [at] gmail>:

> > > I don't know of any of the candidacy requirements that would be
> > > violated by any of that. I would hope people would take it into
> > > account when voting, but if people want to vote for someone that's
> > > been banned from a project, they're allowed to do so. One project
> > > can't dictate whether or not someone can stand for the board of the
> > > whole foundation, can they?
> >
> > No. Many users are banned on enwiki that are very welcome on other
> projects.
> > An example is Poetlister, who until recently was banned from enwiki. She
> is
> > a bureaucrat on en.wikiquote.
>
> Just to clarify, that was a rhetorical question.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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philippebeaudette at gmail

Jun 1, 2008, 2:45 PM

Post #7 of 24 (1984 views)
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Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Nicolas Guérin" <nguerin.zurich [at] gmail>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 4:34 PM
To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l [at] lists>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ?

> Just that the candidate gives on his candidature page links to his blocked
> sockpuppets, and nothing else.
> So it is impossible to know if he's really activ on another project.
>
> Guérin Nicolas
>
>
> 2008/6/1 Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton [at] gmail>:
>
>> > > I don't know of any of the candidacy requirements that would be
>> > > violated by any of that. I would hope people would take it into
>> > > account when voting, but if people want to vote for someone that's
>> > > been banned from a project, they're allowed to do so. One project
>> > > can't dictate whether or not someone can stand for the board of the
>> > > whole foundation, can they?
>> >
>> > No. Many users are banned on enwiki that are very welcome on other
>> projects.
>> > An example is Poetlister, who until recently was banned from enwiki.
>> > She
>> is
>> > a bureaucrat on en.wikiquote.
>>
>> Just to clarify, that was a rhetorical question.
>>
>> _______________________________________________

He is, indeed, eligible to run.

I'm not sure that we as an election committee would want to get involved in
stating whether someone is a blocked or banned user: that seems dangerously
close to advising someone how to vote, which we try very hard not to do - we
do our best to remain totally neutral.

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cbrown1023.ml at gmail

Jun 1, 2008, 2:46 PM

Post #8 of 24 (1982 views)
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Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Phil Nash <pn007a2145 [at] blueyonder> wrote:
> I thought I recognised the name; but he claims to be active on en:wikipedia,
> which cannot be true.
> Not everyone will check this out, particularly from other wikis, and
> therefore this must be miselading.
> Notwithstanding his bona fides elsewhere, should this not be made more
> apparent to voters?

I think he said he had another username on enwiki that he uses.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Arise_Sir_Loin_of_Beef>

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

---
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pn007a2145 at blueyonder

Jun 1, 2008, 3:03 PM

Post #9 of 24 (1966 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Casey Brown" <cbrown1023.ml [at] gmail>
To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l [at] lists>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ?

> On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Phil Nash <pn007a2145 [at] blueyonder>
> wrote:
>> I thought I recognised the name; but he claims to be active on
>> en:wikipedia,
>> which cannot be true.
>> Not everyone will check this out, particularly from other wikis, and
>> therefore this must be miselading.
>> Notwithstanding his bona fides elsewhere, should this not be made more
>> apparent to voters?
>
> I think he said he had another username on enwiki that he uses.
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Arise_Sir_Loin_of_Beef>
>
> --
> Casey Brown
> Cbrown1023

That account, too, is blocked for sockpuppetry. Do we seriously have rules
that allow multiply-blocked editors to stand for election to the Foundation
even though they may be in good standing elsewhere? Maybe some time ago, but
this was only blocked six weeks ago.

>
> ---
> Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent
> to
> this address will probably get lost.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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thomas.dalton at gmail

Jun 1, 2008, 3:06 PM

Post #10 of 24 (1987 views)
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Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

> That account, too, is blocked for sockpuppetry. Do we seriously have rules
> that allow multiply-blocked editors to stand for election to the Foundation
> even though they may be in good standing elsewhere? Maybe some time ago, but
> this was only blocked six weeks ago.

Yes, we do. Why should one project be able to dictate who can and
can't stand? There should be a way to make sure voters are aware of
critical information like this, but we shouldn't stop people standing.

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majorly.wiki at googlemail

Jun 1, 2008, 3:09 PM

Post #11 of 24 (1969 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

2008/6/1 Phil Nash <pn007a2145 [at] blueyonder>:

>
> That account, too, is blocked for sockpuppetry. Do we seriously have rules
> that allow multiply-blocked editors to stand for election to the Foundation
> even though they may be in good standing elsewhere? Maybe some time ago,
> but
> this was only blocked six weeks ago.
>

So what if they are banned on one project? That project might have it wrong
for all we know.

There's no rule "for" the idea, nor is there a rule "against".

--
Al Tally
(User:Majorly)
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sethf at sethf

Jun 1, 2008, 3:23 PM

Post #12 of 24 (1976 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

> Nicolas Guérin wrote:
> Sorry for this title a bit provocating,
> but i just wonder how a candidate for the board election 2008
> (User:Thekohser, see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thekohser )
> can run with

Leave it be. Consider: You don't want to give one project's
admins veto-power over who can run for the board, or be able to put
a black mark on a candidate's presentation.

This shouldn't be read as endorsing his candidacy. But there's
no sensible reason to raise a fuss over it. The Wikimedia Foundation
has at times brought significant embarrassment upon itself due to
various people picking spite-fights with critics. There's no point to
it here.

--
Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer http://sethf.com
Infothought blog - http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/
Interview: http://sethf.com/essays/major/greplaw-interview.php

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scream at datascreamer

Jun 1, 2008, 3:31 PM

Post #13 of 24 (1969 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Philippe Beaudette wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
<snip>
>
> He is, indeed, eligible to run.
>
> I'm not sure that we as an election committee would want to get involved in
> stating whether someone is a blocked or banned user: that seems dangerously
> close to advising someone how to vote, which we try very hard not to do - we
> do our best to remain totally neutral.
<snip>

* '''Comment''' From what I can tell every candidate at this time
appears eligible to run. I am however, sure that the voting members
will take into account each candidates level and ''nature'' of
participation be it participation on the mailing list (or lack of) and
style of participation on the projects. This is only one dimension that
someone can use when voting. Many more exist.

I have not commented on any particular candidate in my statement, my
comment was generalized.

Best, Jon
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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=ba8d
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wknight8111 at gmail

Jun 1, 2008, 3:32 PM

Post #14 of 24 (1979 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Al Tally <majorly.wiki [at] googlemail> wrote:
> So what if they are banned on one project? That project might have it wrong
> for all we know.
>
> There's no rule "for" the idea, nor is there a rule "against".

Agreed. It's my experience that Wikipedian admins are a little more
quick to pull the ban-trigger then admins at other projects.
en.wikibooks, for example, has only ever banned 1 good-faith user from
editing over behavior problems and edit warring, and that user was
rapidly unbanned and continues to edit actively still. Several editors
who have been blocked from WP have moved to WB and become valuable and
prolific editors and authors.

Being blocked on en.wp is therefore not that big a red flag. However,
vandal-style behavior (massive sockpuppetry) is a bit of a red flag on
any project. We can't stop him from running for behavior problems at
WP, but it is something that people should be made aware of. I would
maybe be interested in examining why this user was blocked and why he
resorted to sockpuppetry in the first place but I have neither the
time nor the inclination to undertake such an investigation myself.

--Andrew Whitworth

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nguerin.zurich at gmail

Jun 1, 2008, 3:34 PM

Post #15 of 24 (1977 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

This is really funny for me because i'm was never activ on en.wp , sorry for
you.
I just saw all candidate presentations and checked the given links, that
all.
If you consider that i try to oppose en.wp to one candidate, you are totally
wrong,
i just consider board election as something serious for the whole
communauty.

Regards

Guérin Nicolas

2008/6/2 Seth Finkelstein <sethf [at] sethf>:

> > Nicolas Guérin wrote:
> > Sorry for this title a bit provocating,
> > but i just wonder how a candidate for the board election 2008
> > (User:Thekohser, see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thekohser )
> > can run with
>
> Leave it be. Consider: You don't want to give one project's
> admins veto-power over who can run for the board, or be able to put
> a black mark on a candidate's presentation.
>
> This shouldn't be read as endorsing his candidacy. But there's
> no sensible reason to raise a fuss over it. The Wikimedia Foundation
> has at times brought significant embarrassment upon itself due to
> various people picking spite-fights with critics. There's no point to
> it here.
>
> --
> Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer http://sethf.com
> Infothought blog - http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/
> Interview: http://sethf.com/essays/major/greplaw-interview.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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phoebe.wiki at gmail

Jun 1, 2008, 4:16 PM

Post #16 of 24 (1980 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Jon <scream [at] datascreamer> wrote:
> Philippe Beaudette wrote:
>> --------------------------------------------------
> <snip>
>>
>> He is, indeed, eligible to run.
>>
>> I'm not sure that we as an election committee would want to get involved in
>> stating whether someone is a blocked or banned user: that seems dangerously
>> close to advising someone how to vote, which we try very hard not to do - we
>> do our best to remain totally neutral.
> <snip>
>
> * '''Comment''' From what I can tell every candidate at this time
> appears eligible to run. I am however, sure that the voting members
> will take into account each candidates level and ''nature'' of
> participation be it participation on the mailing list (or lack of) and
> style of participation on the projects. This is only one dimension that
> someone can use when voting. Many more exist.

Indeed. I for one welcome the ability of critics, banned users, etc.
of Wikipedia to stand for the board (as long as they meet somewhat
minimal participation requirements, which Mr. Kohs does), though I
can't say I feel he represents my sentiments as a community member. I
suppose we all have to vote for who we think will represent us best
and has the best ideas and sense of what it means to be a Wikimedian.
I do find it somewhat gratifying that the issue of paid editing, which
is what Mr. Kohs is probably best known for being involved in (and was
first banned over) has not actually come up in the questions so far
(though the issues of conflict of interest and prior contributions
have).

Note that though banned/blocked users are eligible to run, they are
not eligible to vote (from the project they are blocked from) which
seems fairly sensible for keeping down potential sockpuppetry etc.

-- phoebe

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innocentkiller at gmail

Jun 1, 2008, 4:18 PM

Post #17 of 24 (1975 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 6:31 PM, Jon <scream [at] datascreamer> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Philippe Beaudette wrote:
>> --------------------------------------------------
> <snip>
>>
>> He is, indeed, eligible to run.
>>
>> I'm not sure that we as an election committee would want to get involved in
>> stating whether someone is a blocked or banned user: that seems dangerously
>> close to advising someone how to vote, which we try very hard not to do - we
>> do our best to remain totally neutral.
> <snip>
>
> * '''Comment''' From what I can tell every candidate at this time
> appears eligible to run. I am however, sure that the voting members
> will take into account each candidates level and ''nature'' of
> participation be it participation on the mailing list (or lack of) and
> style of participation on the projects. This is only one dimension that
> someone can use when voting. Many more exist.
>
> I have not commented on any particular candidate in my statement, my
> comment was generalized.
>
> Best, Jon
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFIQyM56+ro8Pm1AtURAnM4AKCYo0guOpLsxs+01dnKHp4YqTXolwCfSfEu
> bjVYRJzyL0GHA4g3yR/cCyc=
> =ba8d
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

Jon, you said that:
> I am however, sure that the voting members
> will take into account each candidates level and ''nature'' of
> participation be it participation on the mailing list (or lack of) and
> style of participation on the projects.

This is the reason the Board election is little more than a popularity contest.
Looking at the credentials of those running, Greg is arguably more qualified
(in terms of education and relevant experience) than most of those running.
However, due to the fact that this election _is_ a popularity contest, he is
unlikely to win.

Personally, several of the candidates should withdraw, as they have clue as
to how to manage a non-profit organization. Simply: they have no business
there. However, I leave that for the voters to decide.

-Chad

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thomas.dalton at gmail

Jun 1, 2008, 4:30 PM

Post #18 of 24 (1971 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

> This is the reason the Board election is little more than a popularity contest.
> Looking at the credentials of those running, Greg is arguably more qualified
> (in terms of education and relevant experience) than most of those running.
> However, due to the fact that this election _is_ a popularity contest, he is
> unlikely to win.
>
> Personally, several of the candidates should withdraw, as they have clue as
> to how to manage a non-profit organization. Simply: they have no business
> there. However, I leave that for the voters to decide.

They're not managing the organisation, they're directing it. There is
a difference. The role of a community member of the board is to
represent the communities views on issues. There are appointed board
members and staff for the areas that require expert knowledge.

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innocentkiller at gmail

Jun 1, 2008, 5:42 PM

Post #19 of 24 (1976 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton [at] gmail> wrote:
>> This is the reason the Board election is little more than a popularity contest.
>> Looking at the credentials of those running, Greg is arguably more qualified
>> (in terms of education and relevant experience) than most of those running.
>> However, due to the fact that this election _is_ a popularity contest, he is
>> unlikely to win.
>>
>> Personally, several of the candidates should withdraw, as they have clue as
>> to how to manage a non-profit organization. Simply: they have no business
>> there. However, I leave that for the voters to decide.
>
> They're not managing the organisation, they're directing it. There is
> a difference. The role of a community member of the board is to
> represent the communities views on issues. There are appointed board
> members and staff for the areas that require expert knowledge.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

I should hope we elect our trustees to do more than just share community
concerns. I would rather they also have at least /some/ knowledge of what
directing (to use your word) such an organization is like. If the most director-
esque experience a candidate has comes from being an admin or arbcom
member, I would pray they take these talents elsewhere. Popular community
member does not good board member make, necessarily.

-Chad

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geo.plrd at yahoo

Jun 1, 2008, 7:41 PM

Post #20 of 24 (1968 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

Well it appears the Board wants to be the drivers, ie manage the Foundation.

----- Original Message ----
From: Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton [at] gmail>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l [at] lists>
Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2008 4:30:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ?

> This is the reason the Board election is little more than a popularity contest.
> Looking at the credentials of those running, Greg is arguably more qualified
> (in terms of education and relevant experience) than most of those running.
> However, due to the fact that this election _is_ a popularity contest, he is
> unlikely to win.
>
> Personally, several of the candidates should withdraw, as they have clue as
> to how to manage a non-profit organization. Simply: they have no business
> there. However, I leave that for the voters to decide.

They're not managing the organisation, they're directing it. There is
a difference. The role of a community member of the board is to
represent the communities views on issues. There are appointed board
members and staff for the areas that require expert knowledge.

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wiki.ral315 at gmail

Jun 1, 2008, 9:22 PM

Post #21 of 24 (1953 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 7:18 PM, Chad <innocentkiller [at] gmail> wrote:

> This is the reason the Board election is little more than a popularity
> contest.
> Looking at the credentials of those running, Greg is arguably more
> qualified
> (in terms of education and relevant experience) than most of those running.
> However, due to the fact that this election _is_ a popularity contest, he
> is
> unlikely to win.
>
> Personally, several of the candidates should withdraw, as they have clue as
> to how to manage a non-profit organization. Simply: they have no business
> there. However, I leave that for the voters to decide.
>
>
> -Chad
>

Of course popularity plays into the process; I can't name one actual
"election" where popularity is not a motivating factor. I sincerely hope
that a candidate with some form of relevant experience, whether it be in
business, non-profit, or technical experience, is elected. Perhaps this is
why the board restructuring, of which many protested and I'm undecided on,
was done.

As for Mr. Kohs, of course he's free to run, as he's met the requirements.
His record on the English Wikipedia can and probably should be part of a
voter's decision, along with many other variables, including his business
experience, and perhaps most importantly, his ideas.

--
[[User:Ral315]]
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mohamed.m.k at gmail

Jun 2, 2008, 1:02 AM

Post #22 of 24 (1945 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 7:22 AM, Ryan <wiki.ral315 [at] gmail> wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 7:18 PM, Chad <innocentkiller [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> > This is the reason the Board election is little more than a popularity
> > contest.
> > Looking at the credentials of those running, Greg is arguably more
> > qualified
> > (in terms of education and relevant experience) than most of those
> running.
> > However, due to the fact that this election _is_ a popularity contest, he
> > is
> > unlikely to win.
> >
> > Personally, several of the candidates should withdraw, as they have clue
> as
> > to how to manage a non-profit organization. Simply: they have no business
> > there. However, I leave that for the voters to decide.
> >
> >
> > -Chad
> >
>
> Of course popularity plays into the process; I can't name one actual
> "election" where popularity is not a motivating factor.

If you really want people to make the voting decision on the candidate's
statement *only*.. you should remove the names and replace it with
"candidateNo.1, candidateNo.2 etc."...

--
--alnokta
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thomas.dalton at gmail

Jun 2, 2008, 4:52 AM

Post #23 of 24 (1935 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

2008/6/2 Geoffrey Plourde <geo.plrd [at] yahoo>:
> Well it appears the Board wants to be the drivers, ie manage the Foundation.

What makes you say that? Managing the Foundation is Sue's job and,
from what I've seen, the board seems to be leaving her alone to do her
job as she sees fit, for the most part, and just offering general
guidance on the direction they want the Foundation to go it, which is
exactly what a Board of Trustees is meant to do. You don't need to be
an expert on non-profits to decide what general direction you think
one should go in. It's a matter of personal opinion. We should elect
someone whose personal opinion most closely matches our own, so it
really is a popularity contest. Experts are needed, but they are
appointed, not elected (although, obviously, if the person elected
happens to be an expert as well, all the better), so we don't need to
worry about that.

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wilydoppelganger at gmail

Jun 2, 2008, 7:36 AM

Post #24 of 24 (1950 views)
Permalink

Re: Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ? [In reply to]

On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 5:45 PM, Philippe Beaudette
<philippebeaudette [at] gmail> wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Nicolas Guérin" <nguerin.zurich [at] gmail>
> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 4:34 PM
> To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l [at] lists>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Board Election 2008 : fake candidature ?
>
>> Just that the candidate gives on his candidature page links to his blocked
>> sockpuppets, and nothing else.
>> So it is impossible to know if he's really activ on another project.
>>
>> Guérin Nicolas
>>
>>
>> 2008/6/1 Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton [at] gmail>:
>>
>>> > > I don't know of any of the candidacy requirements that would be
>>> > > violated by any of that. I would hope people would take it into
>>> > > account when voting, but if people want to vote for someone that's
>>> > > been banned from a project, they're allowed to do so. One project
>>> > > can't dictate whether or not someone can stand for the board of the
>>> > > whole foundation, can they?
>>> >
>>> > No. Many users are banned on enwiki that are very welcome on other
>>> projects.
>>> > An example is Poetlister, who until recently was banned from enwiki.
>>> > She
>>> is
>>> > a bureaucrat on en.wikiquote.
>>>
>>> Just to clarify, that was a rhetorical question.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>
>
> He is, indeed, eligible to run.
>
> I'm not sure that we as an election committee would want to get involved in
> stating whether someone is a blocked or banned user: that seems dangerously
> close to advising someone how to vote, which we try very hard not to do - we
> do our best to remain totally neutral.
>
>
Indeed, if the community really feels that Mr. Kohs is the best
candidate, we ought to let ourselves elect him. If the community
feels he's unsuitable, or that someone else is better suited (and I
certainly believe the latter), then let them not elect him.

The community has lost enough influence on the board of late. Let's
not snatch any more from them.

WilyD

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