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Board-announcement: Board Restructuring

 

 

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cimonavaro at gmail

Apr 29, 2008, 7:09 AM

Post #151 of 189 (450 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

Yaroslav M. Blanter wrote:
> I am not sure why you keep asking this question after receiving the
> reaction from four members of the proposed PVC group that there was no
> proposal presented except for the resolution which is publicly available
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikicouncil/Resolution
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>

I suspect one major cause is the way E-mail is threaded, propagates,
and the way I prioritize the order I read the E-mail in. I had not
read those clarifications before I asked that question.

Yours

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen



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jwales at wikia

Apr 29, 2008, 7:17 AM

Post #152 of 189 (447 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

Samuel Henderson wrote:
> What am I missing?

There is a general move toward strengthening and expanding the chapter
system as a scalable and thoughtful way to build the global movement. I
anticipate serious growth in the chapters and chapter membership and for
it to eventually be a much more common mechanism for editor
participation in governance.

I would personally like to see it become the default assumption that
active editors become members of a chapter, not a requirement, but an
assumption that most people make.

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brianna.laugher at gmail

Apr 29, 2008, 7:23 AM

Post #153 of 189 (450 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

2008/4/29 Ray Saintonge <saintonge [at] telus>:
> > Secondly seats for community members are still a majority: 5 + Jimmy.
> > If a vote goes 5-5, it fails. So there is no "power bloc of
> > outsiders".
> > If you are really concerned that "the chapters" are going to somehow
> > choose the wrong people, then why not pipe up with suggestions about
> > what "the right way" would be.
> >
> I realize that the prevailing spin is that the chapter seats are
> community seats, but in the absence of the chapters themselves having
> worked out a viable plan the spin is based purely on speculation.

OR: in the absence of the chapters themselves having (had a chance to)
work out a viable plan, this is a great opportunity for everyone to
provide suggestions to them about the ways they might go about it...

A few comments I have read have been as if the chapters seats are a
fait accompli, doomed, when in fact I see this is a great
*opportunity* for people to help guide the process to something they
are happy with.

Brianna

--
They've just been waiting in a mountain for the right moment:
http://modernthings.org/

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cimonavaro at gmail

Apr 29, 2008, 7:37 AM

Post #154 of 189 (450 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

Brianna Laugher wrote:
> 2008/4/29 Ray Saintonge <saintonge [at] telus>:
>>> Secondly seats for community members are still a majority: 5 + Jimmy.
>> > If a vote goes 5-5, it fails. So there is no "power bloc of
>> > outsiders".
>> > If you are really concerned that "the chapters" are going to somehow
>> > choose the wrong people, then why not pipe up with suggestions about
>> > what "the right way" would be.
>> >
>> I realize that the prevailing spin is that the chapter seats are
>> community seats, but in the absence of the chapters themselves having
>> worked out a viable plan the spin is based purely on speculation.
>
> OR: in the absence of the chapters themselves having (had a chance to)
> work out a viable plan, this is a great opportunity for everyone to
> provide suggestions to them about the ways they might go about it...
>
> A few comments I have read have been as if the chapters seats are a
> fait accompli, doomed, when in fact I see this is a great
> *opportunity* for people to help guide the process to something they
> are happy with.
>
> Brianna
>

<sly smirk>

How about the chapters institute an exploratory body to ponder
this very question...

They could call that body... let me see now... what should they
call such a body?

I know!

Why not call it a "Community Volunteer Council for Electoral
Exploration"

CVCEE

<broad grin>

Yours

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen

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innocentkiller at gmail

Apr 29, 2008, 7:39 AM

Post #155 of 189 (450 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

This is what I assumed. Thanks for the clarification. :-)

-Chad

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:54 AM, Yaroslav M. Blanter <putevod [at] mccme> wrote:
> To be precise, after the resolution has been rejected (meaning last week),
> there was some e-mail exchange between the members of the meant-to-be-PVC.
> Not all of the members reacted, and no discussion so far has been started.
>
> Cheers,
> Yaroslav
>
>
>
> > Just to clarify the wording: you say no off-list discussion or closed
> > mailing
> > lists before the resolution was submitted. What about after, up until now?
> >
> > I'm assuming you meant no to that as well, just the wording was a little
> > ambiguous. Forgive me.
> >
> > -Chad
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 8:23 AM, Yaroslav M. Blanter <putevod [at] mccme>
> > wrote:
> >> > In the small group that was named in the proposal there is wide
> >> > divergence in views about how a Wikicouncil would function. One
> >> member
> >> > has proposed some very detailed ideas, but it would be misleading to
> >> say
> >> > that the rest of the group immediately agrees with them before it has
> >> > had a chance for detailed discussion.
> >> >
> >>
> >> And just to make it clear to everybody, all these discussions have
> >> taken
> >> place on foundation-l. We did not have any off-list discussion or any
> >> closed mailing lists before the resolution was submitted.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Yaroslav
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> foundation-l [at] lists
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l [at] lists
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
>
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jwales at wikia

Apr 29, 2008, 7:41 AM

Post #156 of 189 (450 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

Brianna Laugher wrote:
> A few comments I have read have been as if the chapters seats are a
> fait accompli, doomed, when in fact I see this is a great
> *opportunity* for people to help guide the process to something they
> are happy with.

Yay Brianna!

--Jimbo

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putevod at mccme

Apr 29, 2008, 8:02 AM

Post #157 of 189 (450 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

My apologies then. I think the question is answered by now.

Cheers,
Yaroslav

> Yaroslav M. Blanter wrote:
>> I am not sure why you keep asking this question after receiving the
>> reaction from four members of the proposed PVC group that there was no
>> proposal presented except for the resolution which is publicly available
>>
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikicouncil/Resolution
>>
>> Cheers
>> Yaroslav
>>
>
> I suspect one major cause is the way E-mail is threaded, propagates,
> and the way I prioritize the order I read the E-mail in. I had not
> read those clarifications before I asked that question.
>
> Yours
>
> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



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swatjester at gmail

Apr 29, 2008, 8:16 AM

Post #158 of 189 (450 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

Then why not wait to do this move until your vision of essentially
default chapter membership is actually a reality? The change as it
stands is premature, and undefined. It's giving chapters something
that they, as of yet, have no use for.

-Dan
On Apr 29, 2008, at 10:17 AM, Jimmy Wales wrote:

> Samuel Henderson wrote:
>> What am I missing?
>
> There is a general move toward strengthening and expanding the chapter
> system as a scalable and thoughtful way to build the global
> movement. I
> anticipate serious growth in the chapters and chapter membership and
> for
> it to eventually be a much more common mechanism for editor
> participation in governance.
>
> I would personally like to see it become the default assumption that
> active editors become members of a chapter, not a requirement, but an
> assumption that most people make.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l


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mgodwin at wikimedia

Apr 29, 2008, 8:17 AM

Post #159 of 189 (451 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

Ray writes:

> I understand that the election process, as we know it, takes a lot of
> work, and that having elections for the three community members in
> alternate years would obviously ease that burden. Still we have the
> experience of Erik's resignation, which took place during the first
> year
> of a two-year term. In such circumstances there appears to be no
> means
> to fill that kind of vacancy for at least a whole year.

This is not a problem at all. The Board can hold a special election or
it can appoint someone from the community (maybe the next-highest vote-
getter in the previous election) to fill the seat.


--Mike





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valdelli at gmail

Apr 29, 2008, 9:00 AM

Post #160 of 189 (450 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

Organizing a swimming challenge in the North Sea starting from Holland
to Great Britain.

Who will arrive first and second will be board members, if there are
no winners the role will be assigned ad interim with another swimming
challenge.

Ilario

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Gordon Joly <gordon.joly [at] pobox> wrote:
> If there is no "inter-chapter structure", how
> will the Chapters vote on two people for the new
> positions?
>
>
> Gordo
>

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mbimmler at gmail

Apr 29, 2008, 9:24 AM

Post #161 of 189 (450 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Ilario Valdelli <valdelli [at] gmail> wrote:
> Organizing a swimming challenge in the North Sea starting from Holland
> to Great Britain.
>

That's a bit unfair to our South American, Asian and Australian
chapters, we would have a territorial advantage here.

Maybe we could do a 1 person around-the-world raft trip.


Michael

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nadezhda.durova at gmail

Apr 29, 2008, 10:41 AM

Post #162 of 189 (447 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

> This is a strawman. The current board is a good one, and recognizes that
> the power to organize, inform, and guide the projects' social and creative
> content movements lies with the community. The /reason/ that this board
is
> wise has to do with its history, its long experience with the projects,
and
> its community membership.
And that board, with all that experience, has come to an understanding
born in a long process of work that we need some outside expertise on
the board, and that we have not managed to get the kinds of expertise
that we need solely by drawing from a community process that has tended
to choose excellent community members and editors (who we also need).

******
63 people have signed the petition as of this writing. They include sysops
on at least 3 projects, a former arbitrator, a checkuser, and some people
who rarely see eye to eye about anything.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_petition

The message I hope this sends is that the board is not necessarily wrong in
its decision to restructure, but it did a poor job of communicating. Since
the need for restructuring was apparent at WMF for some time...

* Why wasn't this need discussed with the volunteer communities?
* Why wasn't the proposed solution shared with the volunteer communities?
* Why wasn't the anticipated restructuring even mentioned for public
consumption until it was already done?
* Why wasn't a formal statement prepared at the same time explaining these
unusual circumstances, and the need for proceeding in this way?

What happened here stretched the good faith of many dedicated volunteers,
and I suspect unnecessarily so. With better communication that need not
have happened.

Some of the responses on this list - including the Foundation's present and
former counsel - have enhanced concerns rather than allayed them. Off list,
more volunteers have been reading the Foundation's bylaws and realizing its
shortcomings. So long as there was no reasonable worry that a power
consolidation would occur, hardly anyone cared. Now the board has created
that appearance. It was unwise of them to do so.

It was also unwise at this juncture for some individuals to remind concerned
volunteers of how severely limited their formal power is within Foundation
bylaws, because in a friendly relationship nobody actually exercises the
limits of their formal powers. Bylaws notwithstanding, the volunteers wield
great power here - more so than in almost any nonprofit:

*WMF is a provider of content, but its content is entirely copyleft.

*WMF runs on powerful software, which is also copyleft.

*WMF is almost entirely dependent upon volunteer labor for its content.

*WMF is not particularly well funded: it has no endowment, no contingency
fund, and would shut its doors in less than half a year if donations
disappeared.

So long as the volunteers who fund WMF and provide its content remain
content, there is no realistic danger that they will bring the full import
of these facts to bear. I'll be candid, though: when I read the words "stop
whining" the first thought that came to mind was that all it would actually
take to render WMF obsolete is one Silicon Valley resident with $20 million
to kick around, and volunteers who've had enough of "whining".

I don't enjoy entertaining that thought; I doubt anyone else could do what
you folks do as well as you do. Treat me with respect; treat the volunteer
base with respect. Be mindful that we deserve respect. We shouldn't be an
afterthought.

-Durova

P.S. While I was composing this, the petition gained a
sixty-fourth signature.
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mgodwin at wikimedia

Apr 29, 2008, 11:45 AM

Post #163 of 189 (450 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

Sam writes:

> Thank you for this reassurance. I am astonished that the Board
> would not
> anticipate this (widespread) interpretation of events, or recognize
> that
> this change would be regarded by many as a power grab by insiders.

I'm pretty sure the Board anticipated criticism.

Speaking as someone who, like Erik, is a staff member who was not part
of the vote on the restructuring, I figured that no matter what the
Board did or did not do, there would be a wave of criticism on
foundation-l. In my experience, that is the most common reaction of
the list.

I urge folks here to interpret the Board's actions as an attempt to
meet several goals -- greater integration of the chapters and the
community members who act through chapters, plus greater expertise.
Keep in mind that it was the Board you believe to be a "good" Board,
with a majority of members from the community, that determined this
was the best way to develop the Board further in support of the
projects. I don't see how this counts as a "power grab by insiders"
considering that, as pure power is normally assessed, being a Trustee
of the Wikimedia Foundation is not exactly the same as being a member
of Microsoft's or Apple's board.


--Mike








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wikipedia at verizon

Apr 29, 2008, 8:22 PM

Post #164 of 189 (436 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen wrote:
> <sly smirk>
>
> How about the chapters institute an exploratory body to ponder
> this very question...
>
> They could call that body... let me see now... what should they
> call such a body?
>
> I know!
>
> Why not call it a "Community Volunteer Council for Electoral
> Exploration"
>
> CVCEE
>
> <broad grin>
>
Very good, both in seriousness and in jest. While I would be happy if
the organizers of the Volunteer Council proposal feel a need to continue
working on a wiki-council, if they prefer to redirect their energies and
assist the chapters with the task ahead, that would also be a fine
contribution to make.

--Michael Snow


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wikipedia at verizon

Apr 29, 2008, 8:38 PM

Post #165 of 189 (435 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

Dan Rosenthal wrote:
> Then why not wait to do this move until your vision of essentially
> default chapter membership is actually a reality?
And why not wait until the encyclopedia is finished before putting it up
on a website for people to look at? The Wikimedia Foundation is a work
in progress. For all the talk about being a unique organization, needing
to think outside the box of traditional models, and partaking of the
character of its community, sometimes I think we miss the ways in which
it actually has those qualities. As some people have suggested, I'm sure
the chapters will "be bold" in creating their part of the equation here,
and will continue to "edit" it for future improvements. I would hope we
do not stop evolving the global foundation while we wait for something
to come along with the perfect conditions for change.

--Michael Snow


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swatjester at gmail

Apr 29, 2008, 8:49 PM

Post #166 of 189 (433 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

Your comparison, aside from being a strawman, does not even begin to
compare to the difference between a board restructure, and whether the
encyclopedia is online or not.

Nobody's asking for perfect conditions. But we'd like to see some sort
of certainty and definition, rather than "we'll figure it out as we go
along". The board is not a wiki, it is a board, and in wanting to
bring professionalism to the board, actions should be well thought out
and planned before being taken. There's no real good reason that I can
see that this needs to be done immediately, rather than getting the
chapter structure in an actually useful shape. In fact, there's many
good reasons to wait, not the least of which being that the chapters
will then actually represent people (and thus be "community seats"),
and have had time to develop a plan on how to coordinate who they
choose for the board.

-Dan
On Apr 29, 2008, at 11:38 PM, Michael Snow wrote:

> Dan Rosenthal wrote:
>> Then why not wait to do this move until your vision of essentially
>> default chapter membership is actually a reality?
> And why not wait until the encyclopedia is finished before putting
> it up
> on a website for people to look at? The Wikimedia Foundation is a work
> in progress. For all the talk about being a unique organization,
> needing
> to think outside the box of traditional models, and partaking of the
> character of its community, sometimes I think we miss the ways in
> which
> it actually has those qualities. As some people have suggested, I'm
> sure
> the chapters will "be bold" in creating their part of the equation
> here,
> and will continue to "edit" it for future improvements. I would hope
> we
> do not stop evolving the global foundation while we wait for something
> to come along with the perfect conditions for change.
>
> --Michael Snow
>
>
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removed at example

Apr 30, 2008, 12:03 AM

Post #167 of 189 (433 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Brad Patrick <bradp.wmf [at] gmail> wrote:

> Toiling on a project is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition to
> be a Board member at WMF.


I disagree with this and think it is wrong that it is possible to be a Board
member or Foundation employee with no editing experience and no involvement
in the community. It will always be the case that their first inclination
was not participation, but was rather money or power. Further, in my
experience, the best leaders are those who have also served on the front
lines. Without this first hand experience you may develop surface-level
knowledge of how the community works, but never understanding. The more
Board members and Foundation employees there are that do not have this
experience, the further those bodies distance themselves from the
community.
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gerard.meijssen at gmail

Apr 30, 2008, 12:33 AM

Post #168 of 189 (433 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

Hoi,
I think you have the wrong end of the stick. The board and the organisation
are relatively unimportant; their function is to facilitate.They cannot do
much else because they do not scale. They cannot support the 300+ languages
that need support and they don't. It is not that they do not want to, they
cannot. Languages are supported by Betawiki and its community. The real
power is in doing things, making things work better. It is humanly
impossible for either the board or the organisation to do more than enable
the community to function.

When you consider what needs to be done, like making our content continually
and consistently available, find some university or technical high school
students to work on this or find money and hire some contractors. It is not
as if this cannot be done and it is not as if you need the board's or the
organisation's permission to do this. What you need is to make sure that it
is done in harmony with the existing people and infrastructure.

You do not need anything to make a difference except for initiative and hard
work to pull things off. I agree with you 100% that it takes involvement in
order to understand what the issues are. The difference is that it goes two
ways. If you want more people from the editing community to be part of the
organisational infrastructure of our projects / communities these people
will have to get their hands dirty and involve themselves. Editors, even
prominent editors, do not necessarily make good organisers when editing and
talking is all they do. Sadly as people grow more into these other aspects
of what makes us function, their thinking will slowly but surely diverge
from what their old crowd considers to be valid and true This is imho why
some think that people "sell out" once they have a new role.
Thanks,
GerardM

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Brian <Brian.Mingus [at] colorado> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Brad Patrick <bradp.wmf [at] gmail>
> wrote:
>
> > Toiling on a project is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition
> to
> > be a Board member at WMF.
>
>
> I disagree with this and think it is wrong that it is possible to be a
> Board
> member or Foundation employee with no editing experience and no
> involvement
> in the community. It will always be the case that their first inclination
> was not participation, but was rather money or power. Further, in my
> experience, the best leaders are those who have also served on the front
> lines. Without this first hand experience you may develop surface-level
> knowledge of how the community works, but never understanding. The more
> Board members and Foundation employees there are that do not have this
> experience, the further those bodies distance themselves from the
> community.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l [at] lists
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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jwales at wikia

Apr 30, 2008, 5:37 AM

Post #169 of 189 (433 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

Brian wrote:
> I disagree with this and think it is wrong that it is possible to be
> a Board member or Foundation employee with no editing experience and
> no involvement in the community. It will always be the case that
> their first inclination was not participation, but was rather money
> or power.

I do not agree. There are more types of people in the world than
Wikipedians and people whose "first inclination" is "money or power".

As a fine example, consider Eben Moglen, longtime attorney and board
member for the Free Software Foundation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Moglen

Eben would bring a wealth of experience to our board, and anyone who
imagines that his motives for taking part in this would be "money or
power" simply does not know Eben and his long history.

Eben is a lawyer, in many ways the foremost lawyer dealing with free
licensing issues. He has, in his career, negotiated important deals
with major corporations.

> Further, in my experience, the best leaders are those who have also
> served on the front lines.

And there are more front lines in our mission than the editing front lines.


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dgerard at gmail

Apr 30, 2008, 5:41 AM

Post #170 of 189 (433 views)
Permalink
Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

2008/4/30 Jimmy Wales <jwales [at] wikia>:

> I do not agree. There are more types of people in the world than
> Wikipedians and people whose "first inclination" is "money or power".
> As a fine example, consider Eben Moglen, longtime attorney and board
> member for the Free Software Foundation:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Moglen
> Eben would bring a wealth of experience to our board, and anyone who
> imagines that his motives for taking part in this would be "money or
> power" simply does not know Eben and his long history.


Excellent! So when are we drafting him? :-D


- d.

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millosh at gmail

Apr 30, 2008, 5:45 AM

Post #171 of 189 (434 views)
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Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:41 PM, David Gerard <dgerard [at] gmail> wrote:
> 2008/4/30 Jimmy Wales <jwales [at] wikia>:
>
>
> > I do not agree. There are more types of people in the world than
> > Wikipedians and people whose "first inclination" is "money or power".
> > As a fine example, consider Eben Moglen, longtime attorney and board
> > member for the Free Software Foundation:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Moglen
> > Eben would bring a wealth of experience to our board, and anyone who
> > imagines that his motives for taking part in this would be "money or
> > power" simply does not know Eben and his long history.
>
>
> Excellent! So when are we drafting him? :-D

I am joining to David's exclaim and question :)

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jwales at wikia

Apr 30, 2008, 5:46 AM

Post #172 of 189 (433 views)
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Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

David Gerard wrote:
> 2008/4/30 Jimmy Wales <jwales [at] wikia>:
>
>> I do not agree. There are more types of people in the world than
>> Wikipedians and people whose "first inclination" is "money or power".
>> As a fine example, consider Eben Moglen, longtime attorney and board
>> member for the Free Software Foundation:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Moglen
>> Eben would bring a wealth of experience to our board, and anyone who
>> imagines that his motives for taking part in this would be "money or
>> power" simply does not know Eben and his long history.
>
>
> Excellent! So when are we drafting him? :-D

Heh, he is just one random example, there are many like him.

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notafishz at gmail

Apr 30, 2008, 6:18 AM

Post #173 of 189 (433 views)
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Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Brianna Laugher
<brianna.laugher [at] gmail> wrote:
> 2008/4/29 Ray Saintonge <saintonge [at] telus>:

> > I realize that the prevailing spin is that the chapter seats are
> > community seats, but in the absence of the chapters themselves having
> > worked out a viable plan the spin is based purely on speculation.
>
> OR: in the absence of the chapters themselves having (had a chance to)
> work out a viable plan, this is a great opportunity for everyone to
> provide suggestions to them about the ways they might go about it...
>
> A few comments I have read have been as if the chapters seats are a
> fait accompli, doomed, when in fact I see this is a great
> *opportunity* for people to help guide the process to something they
> are happy with.

Enfin un peu de douceur dans un monde de brutes. Merci.


Delphine
--
~notafish
http://blog.notanendive.org

NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent
to this address will probably get lost.

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wikimail at inbox

Apr 30, 2008, 6:43 AM

Post #174 of 189 (431 views)
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Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Jimmy Wales <jwales [at] wikia> wrote:
> David Gerard wrote:
> > 2008/4/30 Jimmy Wales <jwales [at] wikia>:
> >
> >> I do not agree. There are more types of people in the world than
> >> Wikipedians and people whose "first inclination" is "money or power".
> >> As a fine example, consider Eben Moglen, longtime attorney and board
> >> member for the Free Software Foundation:
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eben_Moglen
> >> Eben would bring a wealth of experience to our board, and anyone who
> >> imagines that his motives for taking part in this would be "money or
> >> power" simply does not know Eben and his long history.
> >
> >
> > Excellent! So when are we drafting him? :-D
>
> Heh, he is just one random example, there are many like him.
>
Is he interested? If not, then he's not a good example. If so, then
why doesn't he start participate on the mailing lists, and become
involved in the community? Note that Brian said "with no editing
experience and no involvement in the community", not just "not a
Wikipedian".

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dgerard at gmail

Apr 30, 2008, 6:47 AM

Post #175 of 189 (433 views)
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Re: Board-announcement: Board Restructuring [In reply to]

2008/4/30 Anthony <wikimail [at] inbox>:

> Is he interested? If not, then he's not a good example. If so, then
> why doesn't he start participate on the mailing lists, and become
> involved in the community? Note that Brian said "with no editing
> experience and no involvement in the community", not just "not a
> Wikipedian".


I was most pleased to discover many Creative Commons people (including
Joi Ito) reading commons-l. Obviously, there's a common interest on
that list.

OTOH, foundation-l could be more than a little offputting to people
not used to our little ways (it's offputting enough for those who
are).


- d.

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