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Alt Key Issue

 

 

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garrett at bgb

Jul 17, 2002, 5:02 PM

Post #1 of 9 (1240 views)
Permalink
Alt Key Issue

I don't understand why I'm having this problem, but maybe someone else does...

I'm running a RedHat 7.2 machine with the RPM vnc-server-3.3.3r2-18.4 from
Redhat installed. I'm using the standard windows client version 3.3.3 R3 on
Windows XP.

When I run emacs on the linux machine, the Alt key doesn't work for escape
sequences. Alt-b is ignored. Explicitly hitting escape b jumps back a word
(just as expected).

My bash shells work just fine, and understand the alt key for their emacs
like editing, and emacs-nox works just fine. Running emacs on the work station
and displaying it on an X server on my laptop also works just fine.

I can't for the life of me figure out why this is happening. Obviously, the
interminals are smart enough to handle something that emacs isn't, but exactly
what? And how can I fix it for emacs?

Thanks in advance for any help!

--
Don Garrett http://www.bgb.cc/garrett/
BGB Consulting garrett [at] bgb


gmabbutt at quartetservice

Jul 17, 2002, 5:59 PM

Post #2 of 9 (1213 views)
Permalink
RE: Alt Key Issue [In reply to]

Does SHIFT+Alt+B work?? VNC will sometimes (always??) not send ctrl, alt
sequences, unless used in combination with SHIFT.

Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Garrett [mailto:garrett [at] bgb]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:01 PM
To: vnc-list [at] realvnc
Subject: Alt Key Issue


I don't understand why I'm having this problem, but maybe someone else
does...

I'm running a RedHat 7.2 machine with the RPM vnc-server-3.3.3r2-18.4
from
Redhat installed. I'm using the standard windows client version 3.3.3 R3 on
Windows XP.

When I run emacs on the linux machine, the Alt key doesn't work for
escape
sequences. Alt-b is ignored. Explicitly hitting escape b jumps back a word
(just as expected).

My bash shells work just fine, and understand the alt key for their emacs

like editing, and emacs-nox works just fine. Running emacs on the work
station
and displaying it on an X server on my laptop also works just fine.

I can't for the life of me figure out why this is happening. Obviously,
the
interminals are smart enough to handle something that emacs isn't, but
exactly
what? And how can I fix it for emacs?

Thanks in advance for any help!

--
Don Garrett http://www.bgb.cc/garrett/
BGB Consulting garrett [at] bgb
_______________________________________________
VNC-List mailing list
VNC-List [at] realvnc
http://www.realvnc.com/mailman/listinfo/vnc-list


garrett at bgb

Jul 17, 2002, 7:32 PM

Post #3 of 9 (1212 views)
Permalink
Re: Alt Key Issue [In reply to]

Nope, Shift-Alt-B doesn't seem to help at all. It does work in an emacs-nox
session, but Alt-B works there as well.

PS:
Just because I was vague in the original email, Alt-B was just an example.
All of the escape key bindings are broken.

Glenn Mabbutt wrote:
> Does SHIFT+Alt+B work?? VNC will sometimes (always??) not send ctrl, alt
> sequences, unless used in combination with SHIFT.
>
> Glenn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Garrett [mailto:garrett [at] bgb]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:01 PM
> To: vnc-list [at] realvnc
> Subject: Alt Key Issue
>
>
> I don't understand why I'm having this problem, but maybe someone else
> does...
>
> I'm running a RedHat 7.2 machine with the RPM vnc-server-3.3.3r2-18.4
> from
> Redhat installed. I'm using the standard windows client version 3.3.3 R3 on
> Windows XP.
>
> When I run emacs on the linux machine, the Alt key doesn't work for
> escape
> sequences. Alt-b is ignored. Explicitly hitting escape b jumps back a word
> (just as expected).
>
> My bash shells work just fine, and understand the alt key for their emacs
>
> like editing, and emacs-nox works just fine. Running emacs on the work
> station
> and displaying it on an X server on my laptop also works just fine.
>
> I can't for the life of me figure out why this is happening. Obviously,
> the
> interminals are smart enough to handle something that emacs isn't, but
> exactly
> what? And how can I fix it for emacs?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help!
>



--
Don Garrett http://www.bgb.cc/garrett/
BGB Consulting garrett [at] bgb


cbeerse at hiscom

Jul 18, 2002, 9:44 AM

Post #4 of 9 (1215 views)
Permalink
RE: Alt Key Issue [In reply to]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Garrett [mailto:garrett [at] bgb]
> I don't understand why I'm having this problem, but maybe
> someone else does...
>
> I'm running a RedHat 7.2 machine with the RPM
> vnc-server-3.3.3r2-18.4 from
> Redhat installed. I'm using the standard windows client
> version 3.3.3 R3 on
> Windows XP.
>
> When I run emacs on the linux machine, the Alt key doesn't
> work for escape
> sequences. Alt-b is ignored. Explicitly hitting escape b
> jumps back a word
> (just as expected).

I have similar problems with W2K viewer to Linux or HP-UX servers. Specially
the alt and ctrl key actions don't arive timely on the unix side. I think
there are just to much parties that like to handle these keys: first it is
the firmware on your desktop, then the os on you desktop. If they let the
key's pass, only then it is in the control of vncviewer. The M$Windows based
viewer has special options to simulate ctrl and alt actions to overcome
these problems.

Might move to replace emacs with nedit (http://www.nedit.org) also
avialiable with redhat ;-) It is (as editor) just as powerfull as emacs but
it is only an editor, not a mailtool, not a newsreader, not an ide, not
a......


CBee


garrett at bgb

Jul 18, 2002, 6:15 PM

Post #5 of 9 (1212 views)
Permalink
Re: Alt Key Issue [In reply to]

Beerse, Corni wrote:
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Don Garrett [mailto:garrett [at] bgb]
>> I don't understand why I'm having this problem, but maybe
>>someone else does...
>>
>> I'm running a RedHat 7.2 machine with the RPM
>>vnc-server-3.3.3r2-18.4 from
>>Redhat installed. I'm using the standard windows client
>>version 3.3.3 R3 on
>>Windows XP.
>>
>> When I run emacs on the linux machine, the Alt key doesn't
>>work for escape
>>sequences. Alt-b is ignored. Explicitly hitting escape b
>>jumps back a word
>>(just as expected).
>
>
> I have similar problems with W2K viewer to Linux or HP-UX servers. Specially
> the alt and ctrl key actions don't arive timely on the unix side. I think
> there are just to much parties that like to handle these keys: first it is
> the firmware on your desktop, then the os on you desktop. If they let the
> key's pass, only then it is in the control of vncviewer. The M$Windows based
> viewer has special options to simulate ctrl and alt actions to overcome
> these problems.

I have seen this problem on a different laptop running Windows 2000, but I
don't remember seeing it on the laptop before that with Windows 98 (didn't use
VNC much then). Perhaps it's a difference between NT and 98?

How hard would it be it add an option to transmit Alt-Key as an Escape then
Key sequence? I have used that with terminal emulators in the past to fix
problems.

I haven't looking into the VNC code, and I'm not sure if I'm setup to build
it or not. If I am, and I have time (pretty big if), I might try to produce a
tweaked version and see what it does.

> Might move to replace emacs with nedit (http://www.nedit.org) also
> avialiable with redhat ;-) It is (as editor) just as powerfull as emacs but
> it is only an editor, not a mailtool, not a newsreader, not an ide, not
> a......

But I LIKE being able to watch the towers on hanoi any time I like! ;>

It would be hard for me to switch. Not least because I've been using emacs
over 10 years, but because I'm using a lot of the extentions to help adjust to
local coding conventions, different version control systems, etc.

> CBee
> _______________________________________________
> VNC-List mailing list
> VNC-List [at] realvnc
> http://www.realvnc.com/mailman/listinfo/vnc-list



--
Don Garrett http://www.bgb.cc/garrett/
BGB Consulting garrett [at] bgb


trash1 at PlumasBank

Jul 19, 2002, 1:15 AM

Post #6 of 9 (1219 views)
Permalink
RE: Alt Key Issue [In reply to]

Even if you don't get the event, you can always look at the state of the
keyboard to see if the alt key is down when handling a keystroke. There must
be some legacy reason for this problem.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Beerse, Corni" [mailto:cbeerse [at] hiscom]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Garrett [mailto:garrett [at] bgb]
> I don't understand why I'm having this problem, but maybe
> someone else does...
>
> I'm running a RedHat 7.2 machine with the RPM
> vnc-server-3.3.3r2-18.4 from
> Redhat installed. I'm using the standard windows client
> version 3.3.3 R3 on
> Windows XP.
>
> When I run emacs on the linux machine, the Alt key doesn't
> work for escape
> sequences. Alt-b is ignored. Explicitly hitting escape b
> jumps back a word
> (just as expected).

I have similar problems with W2K viewer to Linux or HP-UX servers. Specially
the alt and ctrl key actions don't arive timely on the unix side. I think
there are just to much parties that like to handle these keys: first it is
the firmware on your desktop, then the os on you desktop. If they let the
key's pass, only then it is in the control of vncviewer. The M$Windows based
viewer has special options to simulate ctrl and alt actions to overcome
these problems.


garrett at bgb

Jul 19, 2002, 3:27 AM

Post #7 of 9 (1213 views)
Permalink
Re: Alt Key Issue [In reply to]

trash1 [at] PlumasBank wrote:
> Even if you don't get the event, you can always look at the state of the
> keyboard to see if the alt key is down when handling a keystroke. There must
> be some legacy reason for this problem.

The VNC viewer is correctly trapping the event, and sending it through a
mechanism that is at least somewhat correct, because bash is processing the
keys correctly.

However, it's not doing things the same way a normal X server would, since
some apps (specifically emacs) know how to handle.

I was really hoping that someone would know the difference between the
events being generated on VNC and normal X, and how to config emacs to deal
with the difference.

Perhaps the standard X server is treating the Alt key as the Meta key, and
XVNC is treating it as just Alt? I don't know.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Beerse, Corni" [mailto:cbeerse [at] hiscom]
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Don Garrett [mailto:garrett [at] bgb]
>> I don't understand why I'm having this problem, but maybe
>>someone else does...
>>
>> I'm running a RedHat 7.2 machine with the RPM
>>vnc-server-3.3.3r2-18.4 from
>>Redhat installed. I'm using the standard windows client
>>version 3.3.3 R3 on
>>Windows XP.
>>
>> When I run emacs on the linux machine, the Alt key doesn't
>>work for escape
>>sequences. Alt-b is ignored. Explicitly hitting escape b
>>jumps back a word
>>(just as expected).
>
>
> I have similar problems with W2K viewer to Linux or HP-UX servers. Specially
> the alt and ctrl key actions don't arive timely on the unix side. I think
> there are just to much parties that like to handle these keys: first it is
> the firmware on your desktop, then the os on you desktop. If they let the
> key's pass, only then it is in the control of vncviewer. The M$Windows based
> viewer has special options to simulate ctrl and alt actions to overcome
> these problems.
> _______________________________________________
> VNC-List mailing list
> VNC-List [at] realvnc
> http://www.realvnc.com/mailman/listinfo/vnc-list



--
Don Garrett http://www.bgb.cc/garrett/
BGB Consulting garrett [at] bgb


cbeerse at hiscom

Jul 19, 2002, 9:06 AM

Post #8 of 9 (1216 views)
Permalink
RE: Alt Key Issue [In reply to]

> How hard would it be it add an option to transmit Alt-Key
> as an Escape then
> Key sequence? I have used that with terminal emulators in the
> past to fix problems.

THe major problem with exchanging one key with an other is that it
introduces the same probelem at an other location.

IF you have a look at the keyboards on al locations, you see there is no way
to solve all problems. Take a PC based viewer and a SolarisSparc based
server: the SolarisSparc keyboard has exactly the same keys as the PC and
some additional function keys at the left. How do you map that? Which ones
are left over for the PC based viewer? Which ever key you take, you
introduce a problem.


> It would be hard for me to switch. Not least because I've
> been using emacs
> over 10 years, but because I'm using a lot of the extentions
> to help adjust to
> local coding conventions, different version control systems, etc.

No offence, I was just making an exaple: if you use 2 tools that don't work
together verry well, it might be an idea to look for alternates for one of
the two and I have not found a reasonable alternate for VNC ;-)


CBee


garrett at bgb

Jul 24, 2002, 6:32 PM

Post #9 of 9 (1218 views)
Permalink
Re: Alt Key Issue [In reply to]

I found an answer!

Start the vnc server with -compatiblekbd

The VNC server then treats incoming Alt keys as Meta keys and fixes everything.

The option is detailed in the man page for Xvnc, instead of vncserver.
There are a number of other useful options there I never was aware of before.

--
Don Garrett http://www.bgb.cc/garrett/
BGB Consulting garrett [at] bgb

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