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[The Trac Project] #2228: Please add a sane user management system

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noreply at edgewall

Oct 14, 2005, 11:56 AM

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[The Trac Project] #2228: Please add a sane user management system

#2228: Please add a sane user management system
--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
Reporter: greenash [at] yahoo | Owner: jonas
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: ticket system | Version: 0.9b2
Severity: blocker | Keywords: |
--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
* Environment: standalone Tracd from 0.9b2 and firefox 1.0.6 for Linux

I am unable to figure out what strange metaphor Trac uses for user
management, but it's definitely not something a normal human being would
anticipate.

Inside my LAN I log in, log out, go to another computer and click the
Login link; low and behold -- I am magically logged in again with the same
user I have just logged out of. The browser never asks for a password. My
session settings (e-mail) are not retrieved, of course. I have no idea how
anyone could program that *on purpose*, let alone by accident.

Why not provide a normal, friendly and boring Register New Account / Login
/ Settings / Logout set of pages ? The user data would be stored in the
Trac environment for each project. This is what most users would expect.

But no, that would not be confusing enough, right? Your unique "session-
centric" user management is certainly superior in that respect.

As it is, I am unable to use the software in my project.

And it's too bad, because overall Trac looks like a very nice webapp which
is being developed at a good pace.

--
Ticket URL: <http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/ticket/2228>
The Trac Project <http://trac.edgewall.com/>

noreply at edgewall

Oct 14, 2005, 12:14 PM

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Oct 14, 2005, 12:16 PM

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Oct 14, 2005, 12:18 PM

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Oct 14, 2005, 12:26 PM

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Oct 14, 2005, 12:50 PM

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Oct 14, 2005, 3:32 PM

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Oct 15, 2005, 2:18 AM

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Re: [The Trac Project] #2228: Please add a sane user management system [In reply to]

#2228: Please add a sane user management system
--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
Reporter: greenash [at] yahoo | Owner: jonas
Type: defect | Status: closed
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: general | Version: 0.9b2
Severity: major | Resolution: duplicate
Keywords: |
--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
Comment (by mgood):

Unlike other bug-tracking systems that simply have another database table
for storing the users, Trac took the approach of allowing users to
leverage the numerous authentication modules available for their web
server. This means that many users won't need to manage the Trac users by
hand, since they can tie Trac into something like LDAP, Active Directory,
or whatever centralized user system that they already have in place.

I created the account manager plugin as a proof of concept for
reimplementing an old patch as a standalone plugin. Its purpose at the
moment is really for public installations to allow users to register new
accounts. I haven't been updating it lately, but I do intend to continue
to support it. As far as it being a "hack", the title "Trac Hacks" was
simply chosen by Alec Thomas since it sounded cool. I guess I could have
put the code in a branch of the Trac repository, but I think the site is a
good idea for collecting various extensions to Trac.

Regarding "starry-eyed" developers, I think that any developer, open
source or not, will become defensive when a brand-new user takes a look at
their product and says "no that's wrong, you should do it like this."
Yes, people may be accustomed to managing a separate table of users within
each webapp that they install, but that doesn't mean that it's a "better"
way to do it.

--
Ticket URL: <http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/ticket/2228>
The Trac Project <http://trac.edgewall.com/>

noreply at edgewall

Oct 15, 2005, 3:36 AM

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Re: [The Trac Project] #2228: Please add a sane user management system [In reply to]

#2228: Please add a sane user management system
--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
Reporter: greenash [at] yahoo | Owner: jonas
Type: defect | Status: closed
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: general | Version: 0.9b2
Severity: major | Resolution: duplicate
Keywords: |
--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
Comment (by greenash [at] yahoo):

Dear mgood: all very true regarding hurting people's feelings, especially
as a brand new user -- I appologize. OTOH, I read the BileBlog regularly
and am a fan of vitriolic criticism. It's the only thing that gets things
moving; flame wars are underrated :)

I based my argument on Nielsen's "most people spend most of their time on
sites OTHER than yours" rule. In other words, don't break your user's
mental model of a webapp. This is 2005 and people have come to expect a
certain pattern -- it's pretty late for innovation in webapp interaction
(notwithstanding AJAX). If innovation also breaks functionality (and it
does, in the case of missing user registration), the case is even
stronger.

Regarding your "hack": I have nothing against "hacking", and I do not
doubt the quality of your code. However, Trac does not seem to have a
standard plugin mechanism (like e.g. jEdit) so your "hack" could stop
working even with a minor Trac upgrade. Furthermore, if you lose interest
in the code or get an "all your time is belong to us" job, the users get
the shaft. OTOH, if the feature was in the core code, this would be less
of a problem.

The really sad part is that you guys are Python hackers, not C/++/Java
programmers, so this webapp is actually likely to evolve fast -- if only
you'd be more mindfull of common use scenarios.

--
Ticket URL: <http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/ticket/2228>
The Trac Project <http://trac.edgewall.com/>

noreply at edgewall

Oct 15, 2005, 9:49 AM

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Re: [The Trac Project] #2228: Please add a sane user management system [In reply to]

#2228: Please add a sane user management system
--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
Reporter: greenash [at] yahoo | Owner: jonas
Type: defect | Status: closed
Priority: normal | Milestone:
Component: general | Version: 0.9b2
Severity: major | Resolution: duplicate
Keywords: |
--------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
Comment (by anonymous):

Did you happen to see TracPlugins or TracDev/PluginDevelopment? Trac does
have a standard plugin system and all the modules in Trac are based on it.
Also, mgood's account manager plugin is based on this system so should
only have a chance to break if a major change happens in the core system.
And Trac is not alone in how it handles user administration and
registration. I use several web apps that lets the web server handle the
authenication. A few that come to mind are Sharepoint, Outlook web mail,
and [http://twiki.org TWiki]. Just because that for some reason PHP based
systems roll their own user systems does not mean everyone has to. I for
one find it easier to manage my users in one place and the users find a
much friendlier environment if they do not have to remember a zillion
passwords and usernames. I know the current push in the corporate world is
for all software to support single sign on and LDAP. An LDAP plugin is
currently in development which will be a welcome addition.

As for mgood's plugin, I do not understand why ''users get the shaft'' if
we loses interest. The code is opensource and anyone can pick development
and maintenance of the plugin. Do you expect all contributed plugins to be
brought into core development? That is a little unrealistic.

--
Ticket URL: <http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/ticket/2228>
The Trac Project <http://trac.edgewall.com/>

noreply at edgewall

Jul 26, 2006, 5:29 AM

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Jul 26, 2006, 7:18 AM

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Jul 26, 2006, 12:07 PM

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