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isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware

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news at michael-prokop

Feb 13, 2008, 2:57 AM

Post #1 of 24 (6815 views)
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isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware

Hi,

recent isolinux versions work fine with current linux kernels on
current hardware. But on older hardware there isn't a bootsplash
visible at all - like if there isn't a CD in the tray. :(

Sadly the older isolinux versions don't work with current kernels
(giving me an empty /proc/cmdline for example when using kernel
2.6.23), otherwise I'd just use an old isolinux version of course.

I tested several isolinux versions. Isolinux verions >=3.51 boot
kernel 2.6.23 just fine - but not on old, b0rken hardware.

I'm aware of btmgr's existence but that's not a solution for me,
because this is a workaround involving an additional step on the
user's side. :(

Is there any chance to get around this situation? Is there a
specific reason why isolinux >=3.51 (AFAICS) does not support older,
b0rken hardware at all? A build flag --iknowmyhardwareisb0rken would
be fine for me as well of course. ;)

thx && regards,
-mika-
--
,'"`. http://www.michael-prokop.at/
( grml.org -ť Linux Live-CD for texttool-users and sysadmins
`._,' http://www.grml.org/

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hpa at zytor

Feb 13, 2008, 10:48 AM

Post #2 of 24 (6707 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

Michael Prokop wrote:
> Hi,
>
> recent isolinux versions work fine with current linux kernels on
> current hardware. But on older hardware there isn't a bootsplash
> visible at all - like if there isn't a CD in the tray. :(
>
> Is there any chance to get around this situation? Is there a
> specific reason why isolinux >=3.51 (AFAICS) does not support older,
> b0rken hardware at all? A build flag --iknowmyhardwareisb0rken would
> be fine for me as well of course. ;)
>

Without some detail on your configuration, the exact failure mode, and
what constitutes "old b0rken hardware", this isn't an answerable question.

vesamenu is expected to fall back to text mode (but still display the
text-mode menu) on systems which lack VESA 2.0 or an FPU - which pretty
much means a 486SX or something from that era.

-hpa

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wt at electro-mechanical

Feb 13, 2008, 11:04 AM

Post #3 of 24 (6692 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 10:48:28AM -0800, H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> vesamenu is expected to fall back to text mode (but still display the
> text-mode menu) on systems which lack VESA 2.0 or an FPU - which pretty
> much means a 486SX or something from that era.

FYI: I've noticed that vesamenu falls back to text mode on some more recent
machines.

Several Dell PCs (Off the top of my head, the dimension L series, ie L866r
and optiplex gx50 IIRC) do not show the graphics.

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hpa at zytor

Feb 13, 2008, 11:56 AM

Post #4 of 24 (6695 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

William Thompson wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 10:48:28AM -0800, H. Peter Anvin wrote:
>> vesamenu is expected to fall back to text mode (but still display the
>> text-mode menu) on systems which lack VESA 2.0 or an FPU - which pretty
>> much means a 486SX or something from that era.
>
> FYI: I've noticed that vesamenu falls back to text mode on some more recent
> machines.
>
> Several Dell PCs (Off the top of my head, the dimension L series, ie L866r
> and optiplex gx50 IIRC) do not show the graphics.
>

Could you run "vesainfo.c32" on those machines and let me know what it
prints?

-hpa

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wt at electro-mechanical

Feb 13, 2008, 12:55 PM

Post #5 of 24 (6699 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 11:56:23AM -0800, H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> William Thompson wrote:
> > FYI: I've noticed that vesamenu falls back to text mode on some more recent
> > machines.
> >
> > Several Dell PCs (Off the top of my head, the dimension L series, ie L866r
> > and optiplex gx50 IIRC) do not show the graphics.
> >
>
> Could you run "vesainfo.c32" on those machines and let me know what it
> prints?

Sure.

I've attached the image. I didn't want to type all that (nor make mistakes
in doing so)

The machine is a Dell Dimension L866r. I just upgraded my syslinux to 3.61
(from debian sid)

Attachments:

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hpa at zytor

Feb 13, 2008, 2:32 PM

Post #6 of 24 (6693 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

William Thompson wrote:
>
> Sure.
>
> I've attached the image. I didn't want to type all that (nor make mistakes
> in doing so)
>
> The machine is a Dell Dimension L866r. I just upgraded my syslinux to 3.61
> (from debian sid)
>

Your VESA BIOS doesn't support linear framebuffer mode, which is very
odd -- that has been a standard feature since the late 486 days. I'm
curious what video chipset you have.

However, the infrastructure I use for handing multiple pixel formats can
be leveraged to support paged modes, so I don't promise anything, but
this might be fixable.

-hpa

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hpa at zytor

Feb 13, 2008, 4:16 PM

Post #7 of 24 (6689 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

William Thompson wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 11:56:23AM -0800, H. Peter Anvin wrote:
>> William Thompson wrote:
>>> FYI: I've noticed that vesamenu falls back to text mode on some more recent
>>> machines.
>>>
>>> Several Dell PCs (Off the top of my head, the dimension L series, ie L866r
>>> and optiplex gx50 IIRC) do not show the graphics.
>>>
>> Could you run "vesainfo.c32" on those machines and let me know what it
>> prints?
>
> Sure.
>
> I've attached the image. I didn't want to type all that (nor make mistakes
> in doing so)
>
> The machine is a Dell Dimension L866r. I just upgraded my syslinux to 3.61
> (from debian sid)
>

Well, I implemented support for this, and I would appreciate if you
could test it out. It is in syslinux-3.62-pre4.

-hpa

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stappers at stappers

Feb 14, 2008, 12:03 AM

Post #8 of 24 (6690 views)
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Re: capture output [In reply to]

Op 13-02-2008 om 15:55 schreef William Thompson:
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 11:56:23AM -0800, H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> >
> > Could you run "vesainfo.c32" on those machines and let me know what it
> > prints?
>
> Sure.
>
> I've attached the image. I didn't want to type all that (nor make mistakes
> in doing so)

How was that image created?

Cheers
Geert Stappers

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news at michael-prokop

Feb 14, 2008, 3:30 AM

Post #9 of 24 (6693 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

* H. Peter Anvin <hpa [at] zytor> [20080213 20:22]:
> Michael Prokop wrote:

> > recent isolinux versions work fine with current linux kernels on
> > current hardware. But on older hardware there isn't a bootsplash
> > visible at all - like if there isn't a CD in the tray. :(

> > Is there any chance to get around this situation? Is there a
> > specific reason why isolinux >=3.51 (AFAICS) does not support older,
> > b0rken hardware at all? A build flag --iknowmyhardwareisb0rken would
> > be fine for me as well of course. ;)

> Without some detail on your configuration, the exact failure mode, and
> what constitutes "old b0rken hardware", this isn't an answerable question.

Hardware information (not my own systems, forwarding information
from users) - all systems are working fine with older isolinux
versions but fail to boot with current versions:

* Pentium 3 800
BIOS: aopen ax34 1.06
CD-ROM: crd-8520b

* AMD Athlon XP 1700+
BIOS: ASUS 7100PRO/SI232 VGA BIOS Version 3.11.00.18.AS07
CD-burner: LITE-ON LTR-16102B
DVD-ROM: ATAPI DVD-ROM 16x (Firmware 422F)

* AMD Duron 800
BIOS: AWARD Modulas BIOS v6.00PG, An Energy Star Vally
WG 330MS V2.2. 011101, Plug and Play Bios Extention v1.0A
CD-ROM: ATAPI PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W2410A

Failure mode: nothing isolinux related is visible at all, like if
there weren't a bootable CD available. Is there anything we could do
to provide additional information to you?

Regarding the configuration: we're using just a simple
PROMPT+DISPLAY setup within isolinux. The full configuration file is
available online:

http://hg.grml.org/grml-live/file/tip/templates/boot/isolinux/isolinux.cfg

thx && regards,
-mika-
--
,'"`. http://www.michael-prokop.at/
( grml.org -ť Linux Live-CD for texttool-users and sysadmins
`._,' http://www.grml.org/

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wt at electro-mechanical

Feb 14, 2008, 4:36 AM

Post #10 of 24 (6696 views)
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Re: capture output [In reply to]

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 09:03:16AM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote:
> Op 13-02-2008 om 15:55 schreef William Thompson:
> > On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 11:56:23AM -0800, H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> > >
> > > Could you run "vesainfo.c32" on those machines and let me know what it
> > > prints?
> >
> > Sure.
> >
> > I've attached the image. I didn't want to type all that (nor make mistakes
> > in doing so)
>
> How was that image created?

I have a server remote control card. It plugs into a PCI slot, but I don't
believe the computer can see it. It's made by startec. This device is a
powerpc arch which allows you control over the machine via vnc. I just
captured a portion of my vnc window.

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wt at electro-mechanical

Feb 14, 2008, 5:21 AM

Post #11 of 24 (6696 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 04:16:04PM -0800, H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> William Thompson wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 11:56:23AM -0800, H. Peter Anvin wrote:
> >> William Thompson wrote:
> >>> FYI: I've noticed that vesamenu falls back to text mode on some more recent
> >>> machines.
> >>>
> >>> Several Dell PCs (Off the top of my head, the dimension L series, ie L866r
> >>> and optiplex gx50 IIRC) do not show the graphics.
> >>>
> >> Could you run "vesainfo.c32" on those machines and let me know what it
> >> prints?
> >
> > Sure.
> >
> > I've attached the image. I didn't want to type all that (nor make mistakes
> > in doing so)
> >
> > The machine is a Dell Dimension L866r. I just upgraded my syslinux to 3.61
> > (from debian sid)
> >
>
> Well, I implemented support for this, and I would appreciate if you
> could test it out. It is in syslinux-3.62-pre4.

It worked on the L866r that I have. Unfortunately, I don't have access to
the other machines that I've noticed this problem on.

You asked what kind of card this was:
00:01.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82810E DC-133 CGC
[Chipset Graphics Controller] (rev 03) (prog-if 00 [VGA])
Subsystem: Intel Corporation Unknown device 4332
Flags: bus master, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 0, IRQ 11
Memory at f8000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=64M]
Memory at ffa80000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=512K]
Capabilities: [dc] Power Management version 1

with -n:
00:01.0 0300: 8086:7125 (rev 03) (prog-if 00 [VGA])
Subsystem: 8086:4332

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hpa at zytor

Feb 14, 2008, 8:49 AM

Post #12 of 24 (6685 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

Michael Prokop wrote:
>
> Failure mode: nothing isolinux related is visible at all, like if
> there weren't a bootable CD available. Is there anything we could do
> to provide additional information to you?
>

Meaning it boots the next bootable device, or it just hangs?

-hpa

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hpa at zytor

Feb 14, 2008, 8:49 AM

Post #13 of 24 (6703 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

Michael Prokop wrote:
>
> Failure mode: nothing isolinux related is visible at all, like if
> there weren't a bootable CD available. Is there anything we could do
> to provide additional information to you?
>

Also, how did you create your iso filesystem?

-hpa

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news at michael-prokop

Feb 14, 2008, 9:32 AM

Post #14 of 24 (6696 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

* H. Peter Anvin <hpa [at] zytor> [20080214 18:13]:
> Michael Prokop wrote:

> > Failure mode: nothing isolinux related is visible at all, like if
> > there weren't a bootable CD available. Is there anything we could do
> > to provide additional information to you?

> Meaning it boots the next bootable device, or it just hangs?

Booting the next bootable device.

regards,
-mika-

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Feb 14, 2008, 10:06 AM

Post #15 of 24 (6705 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

* H. Peter Anvin <hpa [at] zytor> [20080214 18:39]:
> Michael Prokop wrote:

> > Failure mode: nothing isolinux related is visible at all, like if
> > there weren't a bootable CD available. Is there anything we could do
> > to provide additional information to you?

> Also, how did you create your iso filesystem?

mkisofs -V 'grml 0.1' -publisher 'grml-live | grml.org' -l -r \
-J -no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table \
-b boot/isolinux/isolinux.bin \
-c boot/isolinux/boot.cat -o /path/to/grml_0.1.iso .

# mkisofs --version
mkisofs 2.01 is not what you see here. This line is only a fake for too clever
GUIs and other frontend applications. In fact, this program is:
genisoimage 1.1.2 (Linux)

regards,
-mika-

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hpa at zytor

Feb 14, 2008, 10:33 AM

Post #16 of 24 (6695 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

Michael Prokop wrote:
> * H. Peter Anvin <hpa [at] zytor> [20080214 18:13]:
>> Michael Prokop wrote:
>
>>> Failure mode: nothing isolinux related is visible at all, like if
>>> there weren't a bootable CD available. Is there anything we could do
>>> to provide additional information to you?
>
>> Meaning it boots the next bootable device, or it just hangs?
>
> Booting the next bootable device.
>

Hm, that makes it unlikely that ISOLINUX ever even got invoked at all.
Has anything other than isolinux changed, e.g. the version of mkisofs?

-hpa

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news at michael-prokop

Feb 14, 2008, 11:14 AM

Post #17 of 24 (6696 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

* H. Peter Anvin <hpa [at] zytor> [20080214 20:00]:
> Michael Prokop wrote:
> > * H. Peter Anvin <hpa [at] zytor> [20080214 18:13]:
> >> Michael Prokop wrote:

> >>> Failure mode: nothing isolinux related is visible at all, like if
> >>> there weren't a bootable CD available. Is there anything we could do
> >>> to provide additional information to you?

> >> Meaning it boots the next bootable device, or it just hangs?

> > Booting the next bootable device.

> Hm, that makes it unlikely that ISOLINUX ever even got invoked at all.
> Has anything other than isolinux changed, e.g. the version of mkisofs?

Hm yeah, there were definitely some changes. The problem is that
there are several months between our old and current version and
different build hosts are involved as well. So it's pretty hard to
find out what was the relevant change.

I'll try to provide several different versions of the ISO using
different mkisofs and isolinux versions to my test users.

What I don't understand yet is the empty /proc/cmdline when using
older isolinux versions. Do you have any idea what might be the
reason for that?

thx! && regards,
-mika-

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hpa at zytor

Feb 14, 2008, 12:13 PM

Post #18 of 24 (6703 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

Michael Prokop wrote:
>
> What I don't understand yet is the empty /proc/cmdline when using
> older isolinux versions. Do you have any idea what might be the
> reason for that?
>

Yes, it's a bug in older syslinux versions that affects newer kernels.

-hpa

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news at michael-prokop

Feb 14, 2008, 1:38 PM

Post #19 of 24 (6696 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

* H. Peter Anvin <hpa [at] zytor> [20080214 21:42]:
> Michael Prokop wrote:

> > What I don't understand yet is the empty /proc/cmdline when using
> > older isolinux versions. Do you have any idea what might be the
> > reason for that?

> Yes, it's a bug in older syslinux versions that affects newer kernels.

Ah, great that you know this, thanks. :) What was the relevant
change/bug? Is there any chance to get the old behaviour back? ;)

JFYI: I built 5 ISOs at total, using different mkisofs versions
(2.01 from Debian vs. 2.01.01a37 from upstream manually compiled)
and isolinux versions (3.31 vs. 3.61) in its different combinations.
Finally one ISO using grub as bootloader just as reference. My
testers have access to their machines tomorrow, as soon as I've some
news I'll mail them to the list.

regards,
-mika-

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andrew at shopcusa

Feb 14, 2008, 2:04 PM

Post #20 of 24 (6690 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

Michael Prokop wrote:
> # mkisofs --version
> mkisofs 2.01 is not what you see here. This line is only a fake for too clever
> GUIs and other frontend applications. In fact, this program is:
> genisoimage 1.1.2 (Linux)
>
> regards,
> -mika-
>

Have you tried using a true mkisofs? Not sure if you noticed, but it
would appear you are using genisoimage, which is emulating mkisofs
compatibility.

-A

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strange at nsk

Feb 14, 2008, 2:22 PM

Post #21 of 24 (6693 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:06:20PM +0100, Michael Prokop wrote:
> * H. Peter Anvin <hpa [at] zytor> [20080214 18:39]:
> > Michael Prokop wrote:
>
> > > Failure mode: nothing isolinux related is visible at all, like if
> > > there weren't a bootable CD available. Is there anything we could do
> > > to provide additional information to you?
>
> > Also, how did you create your iso filesystem?
>
> mkisofs -V 'grml 0.1' -publisher 'grml-live | grml.org' -l -r \
> -J -no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table \
> -b boot/isolinux/isolinux.bin \
> -c boot/isolinux/boot.cat -o /path/to/grml_0.1.iso .
>

You're not using -pad. I suggest you use it, as some readers/OSs are
somewhat problematic.

--
lfr
0/0

hpa at zytor

Feb 14, 2008, 2:41 PM

Post #22 of 24 (6692 views)
Permalink

Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

Luciano Rocha wrote:
>
> You're not using -pad. I suggest you use it, as some readers/OSs are
> somewhat problematic.
>

Unlikely to be the issue here, though.

-hpa

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news at michael-prokop

Feb 14, 2008, 2:42 PM

Post #23 of 24 (6686 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

* Andrew Stuart <andrew [at] shopcusa> [20080214 23:25]:
> Michael Prokop wrote:

> > # mkisofs --version
> > mkisofs 2.01 is not what you see here. This line is only a fake for too clever
> > GUIs and other frontend applications. In fact, this program is:
> > genisoimage 1.1.2 (Linux)

> Have you tried using a true mkisofs? Not sure if you noticed, but it
> would appear you are using genisoimage, which is emulating mkisofs
> compatibility.

Yeah thanks. I've build ISOs using mkisofs of cdrtools-2.01.01a37
today and should receive results from testing tomorrow (15th of
february).

In case of interest - the ISOs I gave to my testers:
http://debian.netcologne.de/www.grml.org/devel/test/

If you think there's another combination of tools/command line/...
we should try please let me know.

regards,
-mika-

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Feb 14, 2008, 2:50 PM

Post #24 of 24 (6698 views)
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Re: isolinux problem: recent kernel versions vs. old hardware [In reply to]

* Luciano Rocha <strange [at] nsk> [20080214 23:44]:
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 07:06:20PM +0100, Michael Prokop wrote:
> > * H. Peter Anvin <hpa [at] zytor> [20080214 18:39]:

> > > Also, how did you create your iso filesystem?

> > mkisofs -V 'grml 0.1' -publisher 'grml-live | grml.org' -l -r \
> > -J -no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table \
> > -b boot/isolinux/isolinux.bin \
> > -c boot/isolinux/boot.cat -o /path/to/grml_0.1.iso .

> You're not using -pad. I suggest you use it, as some readers/OSs are
> somewhat problematic.

Hm, according to man mkisofs(8) this should be the default (that's
why I dropped it):

,---- [ % man 8 mkisofs ]
| -pad Pad the end of the whole image by 150 sectors (300 kB).
| This option is enabled by default. [...]
`----

thx && regards,
-mika-

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