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jeff_j_dunlap at yahoo

Oct 5, 2010, 12:35 AM

Post #1 of 12 (6889 views)
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SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address

I have a server which handles email and hosts a number of websites using a
single (1) IP address.

Mail server details:

Domain: compatibleweb.com IP: 66.232.109.196
Reverse IP lookup resolves to compatibleweb.com
SPF record: "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 - all"



Now here's where confusion kicks in...

What the SPF records are supposed to be for the rest of my domains. Example:

Domain: mujer-nueva.com IP: 66.232.109.196
SPF record: "v=spf1 a mx ~all"

Since I only have one IP, you can't do a reverse lookup on mujer-nueva.com
since the ip resolves to compatibleweb.com, and I have a very strong feeling
that this SPF record is useless.

In a nutshell I would like to know what SPF value to use for mujer-nueva.com
and the rest of the domains that share that IP.

Kindest Regards,

Jeff



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me at sharktooth

Oct 5, 2010, 12:55 AM

Post #2 of 12 (6755 views)
Permalink
Re: SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address [In reply to]

That should work, but could also look like:

Domain: mujer-nueva.com IP: 66.232.109.196
SPF record: "v=spf1 a:compatibleweb.com mx ~all"

On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 1:35 AM, Jeff <jeff_j_dunlap [at] yahoo> wrote:

> I have a server which handles email and hosts a number of websites using a
> single (1) IP address.
>
> Mail server details:
>
> Domain: compatibleweb.com IP: 66.232.109.196
> Reverse IP lookup resolves to compatibleweb.com
> SPF record: "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 - all"
>
>
>
> Now here's where confusion kicks in...
>
> What the SPF records are supposed to be for the rest of my domains.
> Example:
>
> Domain: mujer-nueva.com IP: 66.232.109.196
> SPF record: "v=spf1 a mx ~all"
>
> Since I only have one IP, you can't do a reverse lookup on mujer-nueva.com
> since the ip resolves to compatibleweb.com, and I have a very strong
> feeling
> that this SPF record is useless.
>
> In a nutshell I would like to know what SPF value to use for
> mujer-nueva.com
> and the rest of the domains that share that IP.
>
> Kindest Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
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alex at vandenbogaerdt

Oct 5, 2010, 1:08 AM

Post #3 of 12 (6762 views)
Permalink
Re: SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff" <jeff_j_dunlap [at] yahoo>
To: <spf-help [at] v2>
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 9:35 AM
Subject: [spf-help] SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address


>I have a server which handles email and hosts a number of websites using a
> single (1) IP address.
>
> Mail server details:
>
> Domain: compatibleweb.com IP: 66.232.109.196
> Reverse IP lookup resolves to compatibleweb.com
> SPF record: "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 - all"
>
>
>
> Now here's where confusion kicks in...
>
> What the SPF records are supposed to be for the rest of my domains.
> Example:
>
> Domain: mujer-nueva.com IP: 66.232.109.196
> SPF record: "v=spf1 a mx ~all"
>
> Since I only have one IP, you can't do a reverse lookup on mujer-nueva.com
> since the ip resolves to compatibleweb.com, and I have a very strong
> feeling
> that this SPF record is useless.
>
> In a nutshell I would like to know what SPF value to use for
> mujer-nueva.com
> and the rest of the domains that share that IP.


The question is: what server is allowed to use the name "mujer-nueva.com" ?
The answer is: the server with IP address 66.232.109.196
That is your policy.
Then you need to create a record from that policy. Easiest for all, if the
IP address doesn't change often, is to specify the server by its ip address:
"v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 -all"

What you have now is not useless, it is just too much work.
"v=spf1 " for all records
"a " resolves to ip address 66.232.109.196
"mx " resolves to a host name which in turn resolves to ip address
66.232.109.196
"-all" for all records.

"ip4:66.232.109.19" instead of "a mx " uses no additional DNS lookups, thus
is cheaper. Besides, (in your case) if "a" doesn't match then "mx" will
also not match.



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jeff_j_dunlap at yahoo

Oct 5, 2010, 9:35 AM

Post #4 of 12 (6756 views)
Permalink
Re: SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address [In reply to]

Alex van den Bogaerdt <alex <at> vandenbogaerdt.nl> writes:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff" <jeff_j_dunlap <at> yahoo.com>
> To: <spf-help <at> v2.listbox.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 9:35 AM
> Subject: [spf-help] SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address
>
> >I have a server which handles email and hosts a number of websites using a
> > single (1) IP address.
> >
> > Mail server details:
> >
> > Domain: compatibleweb.com IP: 66.232.109.196
> > Reverse IP lookup resolves to compatibleweb.com
> > SPF record: "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 - all"
> >
> >
> >
> > Now here's where confusion kicks in...
> >
> > What the SPF records are supposed to be for the rest of my domains.
> > Example:
> >
> > Domain: mujer-nueva.com IP: 66.232.109.196
> > SPF record: "v=spf1 a mx ~all"
> >
> > Since I only have one IP, you can't do a reverse lookup on mujer-nueva.com
> > since the ip resolves to compatibleweb.com, and I have a very strong
> > feeling
> > that this SPF record is useless.
> >
> > In a nutshell I would like to know what SPF value to use for
> > mujer-nueva.com
> > and the rest of the domains that share that IP.
>
> The question is: what server is allowed to use the name "mujer-nueva.com" ?
> The answer is: the server with IP address 66.232.109.196
> That is your policy.
> Then you need to create a record from that policy. Easiest for all, if the
> IP address doesn't change often, is to specify the server by its ip address:
> "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 -all"
>
> What you have now is not useless, it is just too much work.
> "v=spf1 " for all records
> "a " resolves to ip address 66.232.109.196
> "mx " resolves to a host name which in turn resolves to ip address
> 66.232.109.196
> "-all" for all records.
>
> "ip4:66.232.109.19" instead of "a mx " uses no additional DNS lookups, thus
> is cheaper. Besides, (in your case) if "a" doesn't match then "mx" will
> also not match.
>
>


Jason & Alex,


Thank you for your responses.


This is what I'm looking to do with SPF:

1) mail from compatibleweb.com can only originate from IP: 66.232.109.196,
anything else is spam or a forgery.

I am guessing that compatibleweb.com's existing SPF record defines this
perfectly: "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 - all"



2) mail from mujer-nueva.com can only originate from IP: 66.232.109.196,
anything else is spam or a forgery.

PLEASE NOTE: Since Reverse DNS for 66.232.109.196 resolves to compatibleweb.com
and not to mujer-nueva, I have no idea how I'd define the SPF record so that
requirement #2 is satisfied.




Once again, thank you for your assistance.



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aculver at uwo

Oct 5, 2010, 9:43 AM

Post #5 of 12 (6742 views)
Permalink
Re: Re: SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address [In reply to]

BOTH domains would use:
"v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 -all"

Reverse DNS doesn't affect SPF, just sending IP.

Andrew

Jeff wrote:
> Alex van den Bogaerdt <alex <at> vandenbogaerdt.nl> writes:
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff" <jeff_j_dunlap <at> yahoo.com>
>> To: <spf-help <at> v2.listbox.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 9:35 AM
>> Subject: [spf-help] SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address
>>
>>> I have a server which handles email and hosts a number of websites using a
>>> single (1) IP address.
>>>
>>> Mail server details:
>>>
>>> Domain: compatibleweb.com IP: 66.232.109.196
>>> Reverse IP lookup resolves to compatibleweb.com
>>> SPF record: "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 - all"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now here's where confusion kicks in...
>>>
>>> What the SPF records are supposed to be for the rest of my domains.
>>> Example:
>>>
>>> Domain: mujer-nueva.com IP: 66.232.109.196
>>> SPF record: "v=spf1 a mx ~all"
>>>
>>> Since I only have one IP, you can't do a reverse lookup on mujer-nueva.com
>>> since the ip resolves to compatibleweb.com, and I have a very strong
>>> feeling
>>> that this SPF record is useless.
>>>
>>> In a nutshell I would like to know what SPF value to use for
>>> mujer-nueva.com
>>> and the rest of the domains that share that IP.
>> The question is: what server is allowed to use the name "mujer-nueva.com" ?
>> The answer is: the server with IP address 66.232.109.196
>> That is your policy.
>> Then you need to create a record from that policy. Easiest for all, if the
>> IP address doesn't change often, is to specify the server by its ip address:
>> "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 -all"
>>
>> What you have now is not useless, it is just too much work.
>> "v=spf1 " for all records
>> "a " resolves to ip address 66.232.109.196
>> "mx " resolves to a host name which in turn resolves to ip address
>> 66.232.109.196
>> "-all" for all records.
>>
>> "ip4:66.232.109.19" instead of "a mx " uses no additional DNS lookups, thus
>> is cheaper. Besides, (in your case) if "a" doesn't match then "mx" will
>> also not match.
>>
>>
>
>
> Jason & Alex,
>
>
> Thank you for your responses.
>
>
> This is what I'm looking to do with SPF:
>
> 1) mail from compatibleweb.com can only originate from IP: 66.232.109.196,
> anything else is spam or a forgery.
>
> I am guessing that compatibleweb.com's existing SPF record defines this
> perfectly: "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 - all"
>
>
>
> 2) mail from mujer-nueva.com can only originate from IP: 66.232.109.196,
> anything else is spam or a forgery.
>
> PLEASE NOTE: Since Reverse DNS for 66.232.109.196 resolves to compatibleweb.com
> and not to mujer-nueva, I have no idea how I'd define the SPF record so that
> requirement #2 is satisfied.
>
>
>
>
> Once again, thank you for your assistance.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Sender Policy Framework: http://www.openspf.org [http://www.openspf.org]
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aculver at uwo

Oct 5, 2010, 9:43 AM

Post #6 of 12 (6779 views)
Permalink
Re: Re: SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address [In reply to]

BOTH domains would use:
"v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 -all"

Reverse DNS doesn't affect SPF, just sending IP.

Andrew

Jeff wrote:
> Alex van den Bogaerdt <alex <at> vandenbogaerdt.nl> writes:
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff" <jeff_j_dunlap <at> yahoo.com>
>> To: <spf-help <at> v2.listbox.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 9:35 AM
>> Subject: [spf-help] SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address
>>
>>> I have a server which handles email and hosts a number of websites using a
>>> single (1) IP address.
>>>
>>> Mail server details:
>>>
>>> Domain: compatibleweb.com IP: 66.232.109.196
>>> Reverse IP lookup resolves to compatibleweb.com
>>> SPF record: "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 - all"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now here's where confusion kicks in...
>>>
>>> What the SPF records are supposed to be for the rest of my domains.
>>> Example:
>>>
>>> Domain: mujer-nueva.com IP: 66.232.109.196
>>> SPF record: "v=spf1 a mx ~all"
>>>
>>> Since I only have one IP, you can't do a reverse lookup on mujer-nueva.com
>>> since the ip resolves to compatibleweb.com, and I have a very strong
>>> feeling
>>> that this SPF record is useless.
>>>
>>> In a nutshell I would like to know what SPF value to use for
>>> mujer-nueva.com
>>> and the rest of the domains that share that IP.
>> The question is: what server is allowed to use the name "mujer-nueva.com" ?
>> The answer is: the server with IP address 66.232.109.196
>> That is your policy.
>> Then you need to create a record from that policy. Easiest for all, if the
>> IP address doesn't change often, is to specify the server by its ip address:
>> "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 -all"
>>
>> What you have now is not useless, it is just too much work.
>> "v=spf1 " for all records
>> "a " resolves to ip address 66.232.109.196
>> "mx " resolves to a host name which in turn resolves to ip address
>> 66.232.109.196
>> "-all" for all records.
>>
>> "ip4:66.232.109.19" instead of "a mx " uses no additional DNS lookups, thus
>> is cheaper. Besides, (in your case) if "a" doesn't match then "mx" will
>> also not match.
>>
>>
>
>
> Jason & Alex,
>
>
> Thank you for your responses.
>
>
> This is what I'm looking to do with SPF:
>
> 1) mail from compatibleweb.com can only originate from IP: 66.232.109.196,
> anything else is spam or a forgery.
>
> I am guessing that compatibleweb.com's existing SPF record defines this
> perfectly: "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 - all"
>
>
>
> 2) mail from mujer-nueva.com can only originate from IP: 66.232.109.196,
> anything else is spam or a forgery.
>
> PLEASE NOTE: Since Reverse DNS for 66.232.109.196 resolves to compatibleweb.com
> and not to mujer-nueva, I have no idea how I'd define the SPF record so that
> requirement #2 is satisfied.
>
>
>
>
> Once again, thank you for your assistance.
>
>
>
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> Sender Policy Framework: http://www.openspf.org [http://www.openspf.org]
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alex at vandenbogaerdt

Oct 5, 2010, 9:57 AM

Post #7 of 12 (6750 views)
Permalink
Re: Re: SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address [In reply to]

> This is what I'm looking to do with SPF:
>
> 1) mail from compatibleweb.com can only originate from IP: 66.232.109.196,
> anything else is spam or a forgery.
>
> I am guessing that compatibleweb.com's existing SPF record defines this
> perfectly: "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 - all"

Be careful: it should be "-all" , not "- all"


> 2) mail from mujer-nueva.com can only originate from IP: 66.232.109.196,
> anything else is spam or a forgery.
>
> PLEASE NOTE: Since Reverse DNS for 66.232.109.196 resolves to
> compatibleweb.com
> and not to mujer-nueva, I have no idea how I'd define the SPF record so
> that
> requirement #2 is satisfied.

Please note how I do not talk about reverse DNS.

The question is: what server (what IP address) is allowed to use the name
(not fully qualified domain name) xyz?
The answer is an IP address. It doesn't matter how this answer is reached,
except that some methods use a lot of DNS queries where others don't.

The process:

Some server knocks on my door. I know the IP address.
The server says: I have mail from exampleuser [at] mujer-nueva
I look at the SPF record at mujer-nueva.example
It says "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 -all"
I notice how 66.232.109.196 is authorized to use the name
mujer-nueva.example
Pass.



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jeff_j_dunlap at yahoo

Oct 7, 2010, 9:24 AM

Post #8 of 12 (6737 views)
Permalink
Re: SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address [In reply to]

Alex van den Bogaerdt <alex <at> vandenbogaerdt.nl> writes:

>
> > This is what I'm looking to do with SPF:
> >
> > 1) mail from compatibleweb.com can only originate from IP: 66.232.109.196,
> > anything else is spam or a forgery.
> >
> > I am guessing that compatibleweb.com's existing SPF record defines this
> > perfectly: "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 - all"
>
> Be careful: it should be "-all" , not "- all"
>
> > 2) mail from mujer-nueva.com can only originate from IP: 66.232.109.196,
> > anything else is spam or a forgery.
> >
> > PLEASE NOTE: Since Reverse DNS for 66.232.109.196 resolves to
> > compatibleweb.com
> > and not to mujer-nueva, I have no idea how I'd define the SPF record so
> > that
> > requirement #2 is satisfied.
>
> Please note how I do not talk about reverse DNS.
>
> The question is: what server (what IP address) is allowed to use the name
> (not fully qualified domain name) xyz?
> The answer is an IP address. It doesn't matter how this answer is reached,
> except that some methods use a lot of DNS queries where others don't.
>
> The process:
>
> Some server knocks on my door. I know the IP address.
> The server says: I have mail from exampleuser <at> mujer-nueva.example
> I look at the SPF record at mujer-nueva.example
> It says "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 -all"
> I notice how 66.232.109.196 is authorized to use the name
> mujer-nueva.example
> Pass.
>
>

Andrew & Alex,

I paid close attention to your responses and these are my settings:

1) My IP address is 66.232.109.196, which is used by my email server and a few
different websites. My email will never originate from any other IP address,
if it does, I want it to be considered a forgery.

2) All of my websites use the following SPF record: "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 -
all".

3) My DNS provider is DNSMadeEasy, each website's SPF record was given the name
of it's respective domain, i.e. NAME: mujer-nueva.com, DATA (TXT): "v=spf1
ip4:66.232.109.196 -all"

I think that everything is OK with my SPF.


Messages sent to:

Yahoo -> Inbox
Hotmail -> Spam Folder
GMail -> Spam Folder

Does Hotmail and GMail require something other than SPF?

Respectfully yours,

Jeff


P.S. I have no open relays, I never spam, have no intentions of spamming, in a
nutshell I hate spam.







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spfdiscuss at alandoherty

Oct 7, 2010, 11:08 AM

Post #9 of 12 (6728 views)
Permalink
Re: Re: SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address [In reply to]

>Andrew & Alex,
>
>I paid close attention to your responses and these are my settings:
>
>1) My IP address is 66.232.109.196, which is used by my email server

{and a few different websites. } irrelevant

>My email will never originate from any other IP address, if it does, I want it to be considered a forgery.

ok


>2) All of my websites use the following SPF record: "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 -
>all".

your websites ?? i assume you mean all the domains from which you want to send mail
(please mention websites no more)

>3) My DNS provider is DNSMadeEasy, each website's SPF record was given the name
>of it's respective domain, i.e. NAME: mujer-nueva.com, DATA (TXT): "v=spf1
>ip4:66.232.109.196 -all"

fine

>I think that everything is OK with my SPF.

it sounds like it MAY be

>Messages sent to:
>
>Yahoo -> Inbox
>Hotmail -> Spam Folder
>GMail -> Spam Folder
>
>Does Hotmail and GMail require something other than SPF?

OMG! i don't know where to start here, obviously they need more than SPF, if they even use spf at all

the decision of whether it goes to inbox or spamfolder is based on literally hundreds of variables (of which spf can be one) an spf fail will get spamfoldered but a pass is meaningless from a spam/not-spam decision making process (most career spammer use SPF too) the spam/not-spam decision is based on how reputable you mail sending server looks, whether it is well known and whether the content looks good. that is all.

as far as how reputable your server looks you can check my simple guide here
http://www.alandoherty.net/info/mailservers/ for some basic tips

other than that its just a matter of time till your server is well known and earns a good reputation, new servers obviously start with a negative rep, as spammers do setup new servers daily to keep ahead of blacklists (or rather re-use old servers on new ip's with new names) if you complete all the steps on the above guide 'properly' and wait you will eventually earn a good reputation, and end up on their internal 'whitelists' (as long as your users don't send any spam)

Man what a question!!, spf is an anti-forgery system to stop forgers (some of which might be spammers) forging your domain-names, nothing more, it has zero impact on spam (other than helping identify forgeries as spam, a spf-fail is a negative score, an spf pass is a 0)


>Respectfully yours,
>
>Jeff
>
>
>P.S. I have no open relays, I never spam, have no intentions of spamming, in a
>nutshell I hate spam.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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spfdiscuss at alandoherty

Oct 7, 2010, 11:08 AM

Post #10 of 12 (6724 views)
Permalink
Re: Re: SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address [In reply to]

>Andrew & Alex,
>
>I paid close attention to your responses and these are my settings:
>
>1) My IP address is 66.232.109.196, which is used by my email server

{and a few different websites. } irrelevant

>My email will never originate from any other IP address, if it does, I want it to be considered a forgery.

ok


>2) All of my websites use the following SPF record: "v=spf1 ip4:66.232.109.196 -
>all".

your websites ?? i assume you mean all the domains from which you want to send mail
(please mention websites no more)

>3) My DNS provider is DNSMadeEasy, each website's SPF record was given the name
>of it's respective domain, i.e. NAME: mujer-nueva.com, DATA (TXT): "v=spf1
>ip4:66.232.109.196 -all"

fine

>I think that everything is OK with my SPF.

it sounds like it MAY be

>Messages sent to:
>
>Yahoo -> Inbox
>Hotmail -> Spam Folder
>GMail -> Spam Folder
>
>Does Hotmail and GMail require something other than SPF?

OMG! i don't know where to start here, obviously they need more than SPF, if they even use spf at all

the decision of whether it goes to inbox or spamfolder is based on literally hundreds of variables (of which spf can be one) an spf fail will get spamfoldered but a pass is meaningless from a spam/not-spam decision making process (most career spammer use SPF too) the spam/not-spam decision is based on how reputable you mail sending server looks, whether it is well known and whether the content looks good. that is all.

as far as how reputable your server looks you can check my simple guide here
http://www.alandoherty.net/info/mailservers/ for some basic tips

other than that its just a matter of time till your server is well known and earns a good reputation, new servers obviously start with a negative rep, as spammers do setup new servers daily to keep ahead of blacklists (or rather re-use old servers on new ip's with new names) if you complete all the steps on the above guide 'properly' and wait you will eventually earn a good reputation, and end up on their internal 'whitelists' (as long as your users don't send any spam)

Man what a question!!, spf is an anti-forgery system to stop forgers (some of which might be spammers) forging your domain-names, nothing more, it has zero impact on spam (other than helping identify forgeries as spam, a spf-fail is a negative score, an spf pass is a 0)


>Respectfully yours,
>
>Jeff
>
>
>P.S. I have no open relays, I never spam, have no intentions of spamming, in a
>nutshell I hate spam.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------
>Sender Policy Framework: http://www.openspf.org [http://www.openspf.org]
>Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/ [http://www.listbox.com/member/]
>
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spf1 at beer

Oct 7, 2010, 12:56 PM

Post #11 of 12 (6724 views)
Permalink
Re: Re: SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address [In reply to]

> an spf fail will get spamfoldered

You sure about that?

I would expect an SPF FAIL to get rejected...

Vic.



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aculver at uwo

Oct 7, 2010, 1:05 PM

Post #12 of 12 (6725 views)
Permalink
Re: Re: SPF for multiple domains sharing a single IP address [In reply to]

Completely up to the discretion of the receiving server to decide how to
handle an SPF fail. Rejecting is only the recommended action (with good
reason).

Andrew

Vic wrote:
>> an spf fail will get spamfoldered
>
> You sure about that?
>
> I would expect an SPF FAIL to get rejected...
>
> Vic.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Sender Policy Framework: http://www.openspf.org [http://www.openspf.org]
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