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SPF and Sender ID incompatibilities

 

 

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omar at westside

Jul 29, 2009, 12:06 PM

Post #1 of 4 (1090 views)
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SPF and Sender ID incompatibilities

Hi,

I'm having an issue with a discussion list where one of the recipients
is unable to receive mailing list messages because their mail server
policy applies Sender ID to our SPF records. As is common in discussion
lists, the From: header is maintained as the sender, and our envelope
from reflects the virtual domain of the mailing list, satisfying SPF
and allowing for bounce management.

I've read through the explanation at
http://www.openspf.org/SPF_vs_Sender_ID

and it suggests that I can crate an empty spf2.0/pra record, which
should disable the fallback to using the v=spf1 record.

The Sender ID RFC (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4406.txt) suggests a
a couple ways to deal with this issue.
- publish "spf2.0/pra ?all"
- use a Resent-From or Sender header, essentially with the envelope from

My question is why I wouldn't publish an "spf2.0/mfrom" record to
make Sender ID act exactly as SPF does. This seems like the most
compatible solution, so I am surprised this is not advised anywhere.
Am I missing something?

Omar


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scott at kitterman

Jul 29, 2009, 12:22 PM

Post #2 of 4 (1023 views)
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Re: SPF and Sender ID incompatibilities [In reply to]

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:06:15 -0400 Omar Thameen
<omar [at] westside> wrote:
>"spf2.0/mfrom"

I'm not aware of any actual implementations in use in the wild. This is,
if it's treated at all, treated exactly like an SPF record, so publishing
the extra record is just more work and more DNS usage for no point.

Scott


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scott at kitterman

Jul 29, 2009, 3:19 PM

Post #3 of 4 (1021 views)
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Re: SPF and Sender ID incompatibilities [In reply to]

On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 17:09:19 -0400 Omar Thameen
<omar [at] westside> wrote:
>On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 03:22:44PM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:06:15 -0400 Omar Thameen
>> <omar [at] westside> wrote:
>> >"spf2.0/mfrom"
>>
>> I'm not aware of any actual implementations in use in the wild. This
is,
>> if it's treated at all, treated exactly like an SPF record, so
publishing
>> the extra record is just more work and more DNS usage for no point.
>
>Pardon me if I repeat myself here, but the point is to compensate
>for the incompatibilities in the specifications in the two protocols.
>Currently, I have only v=spf1 records published, and there is at
>least one known case of a subscriber's mail administrator using
>Sender ID checks. Enabling Sender ID checks is apparently an option
>in Exchange.
>
>Since Sender ID misinterprets v=spf1 policy records in the absence
>of any spf2.0 records (per the RFC), my thought is that adding the
>spf2.0/mfrom record would tell MTAs using Sender ID to function
>just like the v=spf1 record. Thus, they would accept the mailing
>list email because they're only checking the mfrom and not the PRA.
>
>My hesitation is that I'd be surprised that someone would put together
>such a complete document as http://www.openspf.org/SPF_vs_Sender_ID
>without recommending the spf2.0/mfrom record that I'm proposing.
>
>In the absence of any obvious shortcomings, I'll give it a try.
>
I think it's worth a try. Certainly none of who wrote that had a deep
understanding of the Echange implementation. Let us know how it works out.

Scott K


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spfdiscuss at alandoherty

Nov 18, 2009, 2:31 PM

Post #4 of 4 (733 views)
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Re: SPF and Sender ID incompatibilities [In reply to]

anyone wanting to address the incompatibilities between the two

just needs to mount a spf2.0/mfrom and spf2.0/pra
record

for anyone wanting to look at live use examples feel free to run sender-id or spf checks against this sender addreess

or get in touch and i can give you all the details

{tested via multiple methods}

At 21:19 18/11/2009 Wednesday, Omar Thameen wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm following-up on an old post here. For the full thread, see
>http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.mail.spam.spf.help/6738
>
>Is there anyone with an Exchange server who can help me test a DNS
>setting which should address the incompatibility between Sender ID
>and SPF implementations? You'd need to know how to enable Sender ID
>checks in Exchange.
>
>Here's the explanation from my previous post:
>> Since Sender ID misinterprets v=spf1 policy records in the absence
>> of any spf2.0 records (per the RFC), my thought is that adding the
>> spf2.0/mfrom record would tell MTAs using Sender ID to function
>> just like the v=spf1 record. Thus, they would accept the mailing
>> list email because they're only checking the mfrom and not the PRA.
>
>I've been in contact with the affected user, but he isn't knowledgable
>enough about SPF or his Exchange set-up for me to make any conclusions.
>
>Thanks,
>Omar
>
>On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 05:09:19PM -0400, Omar Thameen wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 03:22:44PM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>> > On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:06:15 -0400 Omar Thameen
>> > <omar [at] westside> wrote:
>> > >"spf2.0/mfrom"
>> >
>> > I'm not aware of any actual implementations in use in the wild. This is,
>> > if it's treated at all, treated exactly like an SPF record, so publishing
>> > the extra record is just more work and more DNS usage for no point.
>>
>> Pardon me if I repeat myself here, but the point is to compensate
>> for the incompatibilities in the specifications in the two protocols.
>> Currently, I have only v=spf1 records published, and there is at
>> least one known case of a subscriber's mail administrator using
>> Sender ID checks. Enabling Sender ID checks is apparently an option
>> in Exchange.
>>
>> Since Sender ID misinterprets v=spf1 policy records in the absence
>> of any spf2.0 records (per the RFC), my thought is that adding the
>> spf2.0/mfrom record would tell MTAs using Sender ID to function
>> just like the v=spf1 record. Thus, they would accept the mailing
>> list email because they're only checking the mfrom and not the PRA.
>>
>> My hesitation is that I'd be surprised that someone would put together
>> such a complete document as http://www.openspf.org/SPF_vs_Sender_ID
>> without recommending the spf2.0/mfrom record that I'm proposing.
>>
>> In the absence of any obvious shortcomings, I'll give it a try.
>>
>> Omar
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------
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>
>
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>
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