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Now I am really confused....

 

 

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timothy at tdehan

Oct 13, 2008, 5:28 PM

Post #1 of 16 (4311 views)
Permalink
Now I am really confused....

Now I am really confused....

My main domain name is tdehan.com. I have had (what I thought was) an SPF
record which I created on Godaddy.com from using the wizard on this site
quite some time ago. However, when I do the SPF test found on Sender Policy
Framework / Why, it says there is NO SPF record and suggests an SPF record
of:

v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all

Godday.com allows me to create both an SPF record and a TXT record. My SPF
record is created as an TXT record and is, v=spf1 a -all. Is there a
difference between a TXT record and an SPF record?

When I try to use the wizard at Godaddy.com it keeps creating an SPF record
like this:
v=spf1 mx mx:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all

I host a number of email accounts for different domains from the same server
and IP address. For example:
timothydehan.com
wrathcat.com
totallysoundfitness.com

Should all of these be v=spf1 mx
mx:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all ? or this
v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all or something
completely different?

Thanks ahead of time for any assistance to clear up my confusion.

Tim





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rob.macgregor at gmail

Oct 13, 2008, 11:23 PM

Post #2 of 16 (4184 views)
Permalink
Re: Now I am really confused.... [In reply to]

On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 01:28, Timothy DeHan <timothy [at] tdehan> wrote:
> Now I am really confused....
<---SNIP--->
>
> I host a number of email accounts for different domains from the same server
> and IP address. For example:
> timothydehan.com
> wrathcat.com
> totallysoundfitness.com
>
> Should all of these be v=spf1 mx
> mx:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all ? or this
> v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all or something
> completely different?

Assuming the IP in question is 70.89.155.198 then the SPF records -
you'll need one for each domain - will be:

v=spf1 ip4:70.89.155.198 -all

The mx: record specifies that the MX hosts for the name specified are
allowed to send email. This is unlikely to be what you want.

--
Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
doesn't become a monster. Friedrich Nietzsche


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paul.alleway at bis-web

Oct 14, 2008, 12:47 AM

Post #3 of 16 (4183 views)
Permalink
RE: Now I am really confused.... [In reply to]

Hi Rob,

I run a similar setup to you 100 plus mail domains and each domain has this record v=spf1 mx ~all hope this helps.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob MacGregor [mailto:rob.macgregor [at] gmail]
Sent: 14 October 2008 07:23
To: spf-help [at] v2
Subject: Re: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....

On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 01:28, Timothy DeHan <timothy [at] tdehan> wrote:
> Now I am really confused....
<---SNIP--->
>
> I host a number of email accounts for different domains from the same server
> and IP address. For example:
> timothydehan.com
> wrathcat.com
> totallysoundfitness.com
>
> Should all of these be v=spf1 mx
> mx:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all ? or this
> v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all or something
> completely different?

Assuming the IP in question is 70.89.155.198 then the SPF records -
you'll need one for each domain - will be:

v=spf1 ip4:70.89.155.198 -all

The mx: record specifies that the MX hosts for the name specified are
allowed to send email. This is unlikely to be what you want.

--
Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
doesn't become a monster. Friedrich Nietzsche


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spf at beer

Oct 14, 2008, 1:12 AM

Post #4 of 16 (4188 views)
Permalink
Re: Now I am really confused.... [In reply to]

> v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all

You don't want that SPF record.

The rDNS for IP address 70.89.155.198 is indeed
70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net, which is why the tool has
given you that A record; however,
70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net does not resolve to anything.

This is actually a break in Comcast's DNS - but I doubt you'll get any joy
from them about fixing it.

Additionally, that's not the address you sent mail from - that came from
70.89.155.193, so if you implemented that record correctly, an SPF filter
would block it.

I suspect you want "v=spf1 mx -all"...

> I host a number of email accounts for different domains from the same
> server
> and IP address.
>
> Should all of these be v=spf1 mx
> mx:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all ? or this
> v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all or something
> completely different?

The record for each domain is entirely separate. They may all be the same
as the one I mentioned earlier - it depends on how you send mail...

Vic.



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Tom.Reynolds at RTM

Oct 14, 2008, 5:27 AM

Post #5 of 16 (4187 views)
Permalink
RE: Now I am really confused.... [In reply to]

This is not so bad once you understand the point of SPF.

You said you send and receive mail for the following domains:

timothydehan.com
wrathcat.com
totallysoundfitness.com
tdehan.com

You have a DNS (maybe at godaddy) with the appropriate entries for any
servers on these domains.

Typically, the Domain Name System is used to determine what IP address
is associated with a given domain name. Given the domain, or
server.domain, you get an IP address back.

I found MX records for the following domains that look like this:

MX mail.tdehan.com 70.89.155.193
MX mail.timothydehan.com 70.89.155.193
MX mail.wrathcat.com 70.89.155.193
MX mail.totallysoundfitness.com 70.89.155.193


Your ISP is comcastbusiness.net. They host your servers. You use their
IP addresses.

Although you do have the correct DNS entries, when systems try to do a
reverse DNS lookup, they go back to the ISP, which is
comcastbusiness.net.

A Reverse DNS looks up the domain, or server.domain name based upon IP.
The IP address belongs to comcastbusiness.net, so the request goes to
them.

A Reverse DNS gives you this:

70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net

Which may be technically correct but doesn't really work for the rest of
the world for things like SPF.

Since you use Comcastbusiness as your ISP, you need to ask Comcast to
create Reverse DNS records for your mail servers.

That will fix the rDNS issues. Once they do that the reverse DNS will
resolve back to your server name.



MX records tell the world what servers will receive mail for your
domains.

SPF tells the world who is allowed to send mail for your domains.

If I get mail from you today, from tdehan.com, it should only come from
mail.tdehan.com. That's what SPF tries to validate, but fails due to
the rdns.









Tom Reynolds

IT Manager

610.337.3600 x224

Fax: 610.337.2300

tom.reynolds [at] rtm

RealTime Media

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
Material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution,
Forwarding, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
this information by persons or entities other than the intended
recipient is prohibited without the express permission of the sender. If
you received this communication in error, please contact the sender and
delete the material from any computer.

-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy DeHan [mailto:timothy [at] tdehan]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:29 PM
To: spf-help [at] v2
Cc: timothy [at] tdehan
Subject: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....

Now I am really confused....

My main domain name is tdehan.com. I have had (what I thought was) an
SPF
record which I created on Godaddy.com from using the wizard on this site
quite some time ago. However, when I do the SPF test found on Sender
Policy
Framework / Why, it says there is NO SPF record and suggests an SPF
record
of:

v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all

Godday.com allows me to create both an SPF record and a TXT record. My
SPF
record is created as an TXT record and is, v=spf1 a -all. Is there a
difference between a TXT record and an SPF record?

When I try to use the wizard at Godaddy.com it keeps creating an SPF
record
like this:
v=spf1 mx mx:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all

I host a number of email accounts for different domains from the same
server
and IP address. For example:
timothydehan.com
wrathcat.com
totallysoundfitness.com

Should all of these be v=spf1 mx
mx:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all ? or this
v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all or
something
completely different?

Thanks ahead of time for any assistance to clear up my confusion.

Tim





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timothy at tdehan

Oct 14, 2008, 5:45 AM

Post #6 of 16 (4196 views)
Permalink
RE: Now I am really confused.... [In reply to]

Alight, this is what I use to have as my SPF record: v=spf1 a -all

I can make the change to: v=spf1 mx -al

When I create the record in Godaddy.com I need to give it a title.
Presently the title is, @. Does this make any difference? Should it be @
or Mail or MX?

Also, what exactly is the difference between, v=spf1 mx -al and v=spf1 mx
~al ?

Thanks so much for all the help.

Tim


-----Original Message-----
From: Vic [mailto:spf [at] beer]
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:13 AM
To: spf-help [at] v2
Subject: Re: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....


> v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all

You don't want that SPF record.

The rDNS for IP address 70.89.155.198 is indeed
70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net, which is why the tool has
given you that A record; however,
70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net does not resolve to anything.

This is actually a break in Comcast's DNS - but I doubt you'll get any joy
from them about fixing it.

Additionally, that's not the address you sent mail from - that came from
70.89.155.193, so if you implemented that record correctly, an SPF filter
would block it.

I suspect you want "v=spf1 mx -all"...

> I host a number of email accounts for different domains from the same
> server and IP address.
>
> Should all of these be v=spf1 mx
> mx:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all ? or this
> v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all or
> something completely different?

The record for each domain is entirely separate. They may all be the same as
the one I mentioned earlier - it depends on how you send mail...

Vic.



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spf at beer

Oct 14, 2008, 5:59 AM

Post #7 of 16 (4183 views)
Permalink
RE: Now I am really confused.... [In reply to]

> Alight, this is what I use to have as my SPF record: v=spf1 a -all
>
> I can make the change to: v=spf1 mx -al

"-all".

> When I create the record in Godaddy.com I need to give it a title.
> Presently the title is, @. Does this make any difference?

Yes.

"Title" is the wrong word really - this is the zone for the record in
question. "@" is shorthand for "this one"; you could equally have written
"tdehan.com." (note the trailing dot).

> Should it be @
> or Mail or MX?

Inside the tdehan.com zone, "@" would mean "tdehan.com.", "Mail" would
mean "Mail.tdehan.com.", and "MX" would mean "MX.tdehan.com." - although I
think you're probably getting confused with they MX *type* of record
there.

> Also, what exactly is the difference between, v=spf1 mx -al and v=spf1
> mx ~al ?

The "mx" term means "generate a PASS result for any machine listed as the
MX for this zone".
If that doesn't match (i.e. it's not an MX), the next term is tested.
"-all" means "FAIL everything" - so this record will cause a compliant MTA
to refuse the message from any IP that hasn't already matched. "~all"
means "SOFTFAIL everything" - so although it's *technically* a failure,
the message shouldn't be refused, because we might have borked the SPF
record.

Typically, you use "~all" for testing a record, and then migrate to "-all"
when you're sure.

Vic.



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timothy at tdehan

Oct 14, 2008, 5:59 AM

Post #8 of 16 (4209 views)
Permalink
RE: Now I am really confused.... [In reply to]

Hi Tom

Ok, this is getting a bit clearer. Actually I host the servers and the
email. My ISP is Comcast Business. My DNS settings are done at
Godaddy.com. All my domains have an mx record like, mail.tdehan.com. Mail
from my domains names would always only come from my server at
70.89.155.193. I am not clear then per your email below if I should ask
Comcast to setup a reverse DNS as they are merely the ISP in this equasion
or do I do this a Godaddy.com which is where the DNS settings are done?

Thanks so much

Tim


-----Original Message-----
From: Reynolds, Tom [mailto:Tom.Reynolds [at] RTM]
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:27 AM
To: spf-help [at] v2
Subject: RE: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....

This is not so bad once you understand the point of SPF.

You said you send and receive mail for the following domains:

timothydehan.com
wrathcat.com
totallysoundfitness.com
tdehan.com

You have a DNS (maybe at godaddy) with the appropriate entries for any
servers on these domains.

Typically, the Domain Name System is used to determine what IP address is
associated with a given domain name. Given the domain, or server.domain,
you get an IP address back.

I found MX records for the following domains that look like this:

MX mail.tdehan.com 70.89.155.193
MX mail.timothydehan.com 70.89.155.193
MX mail.wrathcat.com 70.89.155.193
MX mail.totallysoundfitness.com 70.89.155.193


Your ISP is comcastbusiness.net. They host your servers. You use their IP
addresses.

Although you do have the correct DNS entries, when systems try to do a
reverse DNS lookup, they go back to the ISP, which is comcastbusiness.net.

A Reverse DNS looks up the domain, or server.domain name based upon IP.
The IP address belongs to comcastbusiness.net, so the request goes to them.

A Reverse DNS gives you this:

70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net

Which may be technically correct but doesn't really work for the rest of the
world for things like SPF.

Since you use Comcastbusiness as your ISP, you need to ask Comcast to create
Reverse DNS records for your mail servers.

That will fix the rDNS issues. Once they do that the reverse DNS will
resolve back to your server name.



MX records tell the world what servers will receive mail for your domains.

SPF tells the world who is allowed to send mail for your domains.

If I get mail from you today, from tdehan.com, it should only come from
mail.tdehan.com. That's what SPF tries to validate, but fails due to the
rdns.









Tom Reynolds

IT Manager

610.337.3600 x224

Fax: 610.337.2300

tom.reynolds [at] rtm

RealTime Media

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
Material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution,
Forwarding, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this
information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is
prohibited without the express permission of the sender. If you received
this communication in error, please contact the sender and
delete the material from any computer.

-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy DeHan [mailto:timothy [at] tdehan]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:29 PM
To: spf-help [at] v2
Cc: timothy [at] tdehan
Subject: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....

Now I am really confused....

My main domain name is tdehan.com. I have had (what I thought was) an SPF
record which I created on Godaddy.com from using the wizard on this site
quite some time ago. However, when I do the SPF test found on Sender Policy
Framework / Why, it says there is NO SPF record and suggests an SPF record
of:

v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all

Godday.com allows me to create both an SPF record and a TXT record. My SPF
record is created as an TXT record and is, v=spf1 a -all. Is there a
difference between a TXT record and an SPF record?

When I try to use the wizard at Godaddy.com it keeps creating an SPF record
like this:
v=spf1 mx mx:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all

I host a number of email accounts for different domains from the same server
and IP address. For example:
timothydehan.com
wrathcat.com
totallysoundfitness.com

Should all of these be v=spf1 mx
mx:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all ? or this
v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all or something
completely different?

Thanks ahead of time for any assistance to clear up my confusion.

Tim





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timothy at tdehan

Oct 14, 2008, 6:00 AM

Post #9 of 16 (4182 views)
Permalink
RE: Now I am really confused.... [In reply to]

And actually, it is not a "title" that I have to give it below (that was a
mistake). It is a HOST I have to give it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy DeHan [mailto:timothy [at] tdehan]
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:46 AM
To: spf-help [at] v2
Subject: RE: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....

Alight, this is what I use to have as my SPF record: v=spf1 a -all

I can make the change to: v=spf1 mx -al

When I create the record in Godaddy.com I need to give it a title.
Presently the title is, @. Does this make any difference? Should it be @
or Mail or MX?

Also, what exactly is the difference between, v=spf1 mx -al and v=spf1 mx
~al ?

Thanks so much for all the help.

Tim


-----Original Message-----
From: Vic [mailto:spf [at] beer]
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:13 AM
To: spf-help [at] v2
Subject: Re: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....


> v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all

You don't want that SPF record.

The rDNS for IP address 70.89.155.198 is indeed
70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net, which is why the tool has
given you that A record; however,
70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net does not resolve to anything.

This is actually a break in Comcast's DNS - but I doubt you'll get any joy
from them about fixing it.

Additionally, that's not the address you sent mail from - that came from
70.89.155.193, so if you implemented that record correctly, an SPF filter
would block it.

I suspect you want "v=spf1 mx -all"...

> I host a number of email accounts for different domains from the same
> server and IP address.
>
> Should all of these be v=spf1 mx
> mx:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all ? or this
> v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all or
> something completely different?

The record for each domain is entirely separate. They may all be the same as
the one I mentioned earlier - it depends on how you send mail...

Vic.



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spf at beer

Oct 14, 2008, 6:15 AM

Post #10 of 16 (4183 views)
Permalink
RE: Now I am really confused.... [In reply to]

> My ISP is Comcast Business. My DNS settings are done at
> Godaddy.com.

No, the DNS *for your domains* is done at GoDaddy. There are other things
inplay :-)

> Mail
> from my domains names would always only come from my server at
> 70.89.155.193.

You could define that in your SPF record...

> I am not clear then per your email below if I should ask
> Comcast to setup a reverse DNS as they are merely the ISP in this equasion
> or do I do this a Godaddy.com which is where the DNS settings are done?

Reverse DNS is the name lookup for IP address 70.89.155.193 - as that is
part of a netblock leased to Comcast, they get to say what it gets called.

You could try getting them to change it - but I don't fancy your chances.

It's not that important, really - what the rDNS says isn't nearly as
important as whether or not it is valid. In your case, trying to resolve
the name returned from rDNS fails - it's not valid. This is something I'd
take up with Comcast (but again, this might be a lost cause...)

Vic.



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Tom.Reynolds at RTM

Oct 14, 2008, 6:44 AM

Post #11 of 16 (4181 views)
Permalink
RE: Now I am really confused.... [In reply to]

Comcast will have to set up the reverse DNS for you, since they are your
ISP. They should know what you are asking for.

The reverse DNS just maps the IP to the server.domain name.

70.89.155.193 mail.tdehan.com










Tom Reynolds

IT Manager

610.337.3600 x224

Fax: 610.337.2300

tom.reynolds [at] rtm

RealTime Media

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
Material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution,
Forwarding, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
this information by persons or entities other than the intended
recipient is prohibited without the express permission of the sender. If
you received this communication in error, please contact the sender and
delete the material from any computer.

-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy DeHan [mailto:timothy [at] tdehan]
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:00 AM
To: spf-help [at] v2
Subject: RE: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....

Hi Tom

Ok, this is getting a bit clearer. Actually I host the servers and the
email. My ISP is Comcast Business. My DNS settings are done at
Godaddy.com. All my domains have an mx record like, mail.tdehan.com.
Mail
from my domains names would always only come from my server at
70.89.155.193. I am not clear then per your email below if I should ask
Comcast to setup a reverse DNS as they are merely the ISP in this
equasion
or do I do this a Godaddy.com which is where the DNS settings are done?

Thanks so much

Tim


-----Original Message-----
From: Reynolds, Tom [mailto:Tom.Reynolds [at] RTM]
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:27 AM
To: spf-help [at] v2
Subject: RE: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....

This is not so bad once you understand the point of SPF.

You said you send and receive mail for the following domains:

timothydehan.com
wrathcat.com
totallysoundfitness.com
tdehan.com

You have a DNS (maybe at godaddy) with the appropriate entries for any
servers on these domains.

Typically, the Domain Name System is used to determine what IP address
is
associated with a given domain name. Given the domain, or
server.domain,
you get an IP address back.

I found MX records for the following domains that look like this:

MX mail.tdehan.com 70.89.155.193
MX mail.timothydehan.com 70.89.155.193
MX mail.wrathcat.com 70.89.155.193
MX mail.totallysoundfitness.com 70.89.155.193


Your ISP is comcastbusiness.net. They host your servers. You use their
IP
addresses.

Although you do have the correct DNS entries, when systems try to do a
reverse DNS lookup, they go back to the ISP, which is
comcastbusiness.net.

A Reverse DNS looks up the domain, or server.domain name based upon IP.
The IP address belongs to comcastbusiness.net, so the request goes to
them.

A Reverse DNS gives you this:

70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net

Which may be technically correct but doesn't really work for the rest of
the
world for things like SPF.

Since you use Comcastbusiness as your ISP, you need to ask Comcast to
create
Reverse DNS records for your mail servers.

That will fix the rDNS issues. Once they do that the reverse DNS will
resolve back to your server name.



MX records tell the world what servers will receive mail for your
domains.

SPF tells the world who is allowed to send mail for your domains.

If I get mail from you today, from tdehan.com, it should only come from
mail.tdehan.com. That's what SPF tries to validate, but fails due to
the
rdns.









Tom Reynolds

IT Manager

610.337.3600 x224

Fax: 610.337.2300

tom.reynolds [at] rtm

RealTime Media

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
Material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution,
Forwarding, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
this
information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is
prohibited without the express permission of the sender. If you received
this communication in error, please contact the sender and
delete the material from any computer.

-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy DeHan [mailto:timothy [at] tdehan]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:29 PM
To: spf-help [at] v2
Cc: timothy [at] tdehan
Subject: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....

Now I am really confused....

My main domain name is tdehan.com. I have had (what I thought was) an
SPF
record which I created on Godaddy.com from using the wizard on this site
quite some time ago. However, when I do the SPF test found on Sender
Policy
Framework / Why, it says there is NO SPF record and suggests an SPF
record
of:

v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all

Godday.com allows me to create both an SPF record and a TXT record. My
SPF
record is created as an TXT record and is, v=spf1 a -all. Is there a
difference between a TXT record and an SPF record?

When I try to use the wizard at Godaddy.com it keeps creating an SPF
record
like this:
v=spf1 mx mx:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all

I host a number of email accounts for different domains from the same
server
and IP address. For example:
timothydehan.com
wrathcat.com
totallysoundfitness.com

Should all of these be v=spf1 mx
mx:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all ? or this
v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all or
something
completely different?

Thanks ahead of time for any assistance to clear up my confusion.

Tim





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timothy at tdehan

Oct 14, 2008, 7:28 AM

Post #12 of 16 (4181 views)
Permalink
Re: Now I am really confused.... [In reply to]

Ok, I will contact Comcast to have them create a reverse DNS. I am guessing
then that I would have to have them create one for each Domain Email
accounts I host?

I am still confused a bit by all the different responses I am getting per my
original question so I would like to try asking this a little differently.

1. I own my servers and host a number of Domain Email accounts for people
at my place. Some of which are:
tdehan.com
timothydehan.com
wrathcat.com
totallysoundfitness.com

2. These domains are registered through Godaddy.com. The DNS and MX
settings for these domains are entered there.

3. The IP address for all of these domains is: 70.89.155.193

4. All these have an MX record of:
mail.tdehan.com
mail.timothydehan.com
mail.wrathcat.com
mail.totallysoundfitness.com

5. My ISP is Comcast Business

6. Presently the SPF record I have setup for each one of these is the same:
v=spf1 a -all

7. Is v=spf1 a -all sufficiant for all of these domains? Or would it be
better to create an SPF record that includes the IP address and MX record?

Could someone give me an example of the best solution?

Thanks so much

Tim


----- Original Message -----
From: "Reynolds, Tom" <Tom.Reynolds [at] RTM>
To: <spf-help [at] v2>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 6:44 AM
Subject: RE: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....


Comcast will have to set up the reverse DNS for you, since they are your
ISP. They should know what you are asking for.

The reverse DNS just maps the IP to the server.domain name.

70.89.155.193 mail.tdehan.com










Tom Reynolds

IT Manager

610.337.3600 x224

Fax: 610.337.2300

tom.reynolds [at] rtm

RealTime Media

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
Material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution,
Forwarding, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
this information by persons or entities other than the intended
recipient is prohibited without the express permission of the sender. If
you received this communication in error, please contact the sender and
delete the material from any computer.

-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy DeHan [mailto:timothy [at] tdehan]
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:00 AM
To: spf-help [at] v2
Subject: RE: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....

Hi Tom

Ok, this is getting a bit clearer. Actually I host the servers and the
email. My ISP is Comcast Business. My DNS settings are done at
Godaddy.com. All my domains have an mx record like, mail.tdehan.com.
Mail
from my domains names would always only come from my server at
70.89.155.193. I am not clear then per your email below if I should ask
Comcast to setup a reverse DNS as they are merely the ISP in this
equasion
or do I do this a Godaddy.com which is where the DNS settings are done?

Thanks so much

Tim


-----Original Message-----
From: Reynolds, Tom [mailto:Tom.Reynolds [at] RTM]
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:27 AM
To: spf-help [at] v2
Subject: RE: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....

This is not so bad once you understand the point of SPF.

You said you send and receive mail for the following domains:

timothydehan.com
wrathcat.com
totallysoundfitness.com
tdehan.com

You have a DNS (maybe at godaddy) with the appropriate entries for any
servers on these domains.

Typically, the Domain Name System is used to determine what IP address
is
associated with a given domain name. Given the domain, or
server.domain,
you get an IP address back.

I found MX records for the following domains that look like this:

MX mail.tdehan.com 70.89.155.193
MX mail.timothydehan.com 70.89.155.193
MX mail.wrathcat.com 70.89.155.193
MX mail.totallysoundfitness.com 70.89.155.193


Your ISP is comcastbusiness.net. They host your servers. You use their
IP
addresses.

Although you do have the correct DNS entries, when systems try to do a
reverse DNS lookup, they go back to the ISP, which is
comcastbusiness.net.

A Reverse DNS looks up the domain, or server.domain name based upon IP.
The IP address belongs to comcastbusiness.net, so the request goes to
them.

A Reverse DNS gives you this:

70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net

Which may be technically correct but doesn't really work for the rest of
the
world for things like SPF.

Since you use Comcastbusiness as your ISP, you need to ask Comcast to
create
Reverse DNS records for your mail servers.

That will fix the rDNS issues. Once they do that the reverse DNS will
resolve back to your server name.



MX records tell the world what servers will receive mail for your
domains.

SPF tells the world who is allowed to send mail for your domains.

If I get mail from you today, from tdehan.com, it should only come from
mail.tdehan.com. That's what SPF tries to validate, but fails due to
the
rdns.









Tom Reynolds

IT Manager

610.337.3600 x224

Fax: 610.337.2300

tom.reynolds [at] rtm

RealTime Media

The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
Material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution,
Forwarding, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon,
this
information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is
prohibited without the express permission of the sender. If you received
this communication in error, please contact the sender and
delete the material from any computer.

-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy DeHan [mailto:timothy [at] tdehan]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 8:29 PM
To: spf-help [at] v2
Cc: timothy [at] tdehan
Subject: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....

Now I am really confused....

My main domain name is tdehan.com. I have had (what I thought was) an
SPF
record which I created on Godaddy.com from using the wizard on this site
quite some time ago. However, when I do the SPF test found on Sender
Policy
Framework / Why, it says there is NO SPF record and suggests an SPF
record
of:

v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all

Godday.com allows me to create both an SPF record and a TXT record. My
SPF
record is created as an TXT record and is, v=spf1 a -all. Is there a
difference between a TXT record and an SPF record?

When I try to use the wizard at Godaddy.com it keeps creating an SPF
record
like this:
v=spf1 mx mx:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all

I host a number of email accounts for different domains from the same
server
and IP address. For example:
timothydehan.com
wrathcat.com
totallysoundfitness.com

Should all of these be v=spf1 mx
mx:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all ? or this
v=spf1 a a:70-89-155-198-smc-wa.hfc.comcastbusiness.net -all or
something
completely different?

Thanks ahead of time for any assistance to clear up my confusion.

Tim





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rob.macgregor at gmail

Oct 14, 2008, 8:16 AM

Post #13 of 16 (4185 views)
Permalink
Re: Now I am really confused.... [In reply to]

On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 15:28, Timothy DeHan <timothy [at] tdehan> wrote:
> Ok, I will contact Comcast to have them create a reverse DNS. I am guessing
> then that I would have to have them create one for each Domain Email
> accounts I host?

One per server.

> I am still confused a bit by all the different responses I am getting per my
> original question so I would like to try asking this a little differently.
>
> 1. I own my servers and host a number of Domain Email accounts for people
> at my place. Some of which are:
<---SNIP--->
> 7. Is v=spf1 a -all sufficiant for all of these domains? Or would it be
> better to create an SPF record that includes the IP address and MX record?

If all those domains resolve to the IP address in question then that
record is sufficient. If they don't then you could use:

v=spf1 ip4:70.89.155.193 -all

If you're not sure then use one of the many email testers for SPF
records (http://www.openspf.org/Tools).

--
Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
doesn't become a monster. Friedrich Nietzsche


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timothy at tdehan

Oct 14, 2008, 8:36 AM

Post #14 of 16 (4192 views)
Permalink
Re: Now I am really confused.... [In reply to]

Yes, I have used the many email testers for SPF from the URL below and get
different responses.

I am not clear what you mean below by "one per server". Are you referring
to each email domain as a server?



----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob MacGregor" <rob.macgregor [at] gmail>
To: <spf-help [at] v2>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....


> On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 15:28, Timothy DeHan <timothy [at] tdehan> wrote:
>> Ok, I will contact Comcast to have them create a reverse DNS. I am
>> guessing
>> then that I would have to have them create one for each Domain Email
>> accounts I host?
>
> One per server.
>
>> I am still confused a bit by all the different responses I am getting per
>> my
>> original question so I would like to try asking this a little
>> differently.
>>
>> 1. I own my servers and host a number of Domain Email accounts for
>> people
>> at my place. Some of which are:
> <---SNIP--->
>> 7. Is v=spf1 a -all sufficiant for all of these domains? Or would it be
>> better to create an SPF record that includes the IP address and MX
>> record?
>
> If all those domains resolve to the IP address in question then that
> record is sufficient. If they don't then you could use:
>
> v=spf1 ip4:70.89.155.193 -all
>
> If you're not sure then use one of the many email testers for SPF
> records (http://www.openspf.org/Tools).
>
> --
> Please keep list traffic on the list.
>
> Rob MacGregor
> Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
> doesn't become a monster. Friedrich Nietzsche
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
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> Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/
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> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
>




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alex at ergens

Oct 14, 2008, 8:45 AM

Post #15 of 16 (4180 views)
Permalink
Re: Now I am really confused.... [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy DeHan" <timothy [at] tdehan>
To: <spf-help [at] v2>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [spf-help] Now I am really confused....


> Ok, I will contact Comcast to have them create a reverse DNS. I am
> guessing then that I would have to have them create one for each Domain
> Email accounts I host?
>
> I am still confused a bit by all the different responses I am getting per
> my original question so I would like to try asking this a little
> differently.


Please allow me to try.

It seems to me you are confused between hostnames, domains and zones. In
addition you are dealing with multiple problems.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you have only one server, which works
for multiple email domains. If not, the following may be incorrect in a
couple of details.


You have a server. This server is connected to the internet. The server
has an address. The server also has a name.

Computers connect by means of addresses, not by names. But humans like
names, not addresses. That's why a mapping exists from addresses to names.

Another mapping exists, from names to adresses. This mapping is done not
just for computer names but also for other purposes.


When your computer sends email to me, I (my server) know the following:

1: what is the address of your computer
2: who do you say you are
3: who is mailing whom

but what I really want to know is:

1: what is the name of your computer, so that I can contact its keeper in
case of problems
2: are you really who you pretent to be
3: is the message sender who he claims to be

That is because lots of people abuse the email system, e.g. for sending
viruses, spam and other malicious actions. I don't want that junk, and you
don't want it to reflect upon your name.


Nothing is 100% sure and safe, but nowadays the connecting address is
assumed to be valid. To a certain degree I can trust that it really is
70.89.155.193 which is connected to me.

Then your computer says: "Hello, my name is xyz. I have mail from pqr which
should go to abc".

My computer will lookup the name belonging to address 70.89.155.193 and to
do so it will contact the owner of that address: comcast. Comcast says the
name belonging to this address is mail.tdehan.com; my computer will then
lookup the address belonging to mail.tdehan.com and it finds 70.89.155.193.
That second mapping is done at whereever its owner (you) happens to have his
DNS hosted, godaddy in this case.

Step 1 completed. The owner of the address 70.89.155.193 agrees with the
owner of the name mail.tdehan.com that these two belong to each other.


SPF is another way to gain some trust in the connecting computer's name,
necessary because sometimes step 1 cannot be completed. Instead of mapping
from address to name and back, my computer could also react like so:

your computer says: "Hello, my name is xyz". My computer then contacts xyz
and asks for an SPF policy. That policy is very simple: which address(es)
is/are authorized to say "My name is xyz". If things are setup properly
there is only one host authorized to do so and thus there is only one copy
of this policy, published at one place listing just one server.

If the policy authorizes host 70.89.155.193 then I know the owner of 'xyz'
agrees that 70.89.155.193 uses his name. That completes step 2.

Make sure your host says "HELO mail.tdehan.com" (meaning: Hello, my
hostname is mail.tdehan.com). Keep your address-to-hostname mapping to point
to mail.tdehan.com and keep your hostname-to-address mapping point to
70.89.155.193


Either from step 1, step 2 or both, now I know I can trust that the computer
is really at xyz. But that does not mean this computer is authorized to
write messages on behalf of bill gates, santaklaus, the president of the
USA, and so on. Time for step three.


SPF's primarily use is to check authorization for using names in email
addresses. When your computer says "I have mail from pqr which should go to
abc", I need to verify that pqr is okay with this.

So my computer asks pqr for its SPF policy. In that policy a list of
addresses is authorized to speak on behalf of pqr.

If pqr does list 70.89.155.193 as an authorized user of the name pqr, I can
trust that pqr will handle complaints in case 70.89.155.193 abuses the
internet.


To complete the answer to your questions:

You need an SPF policy for hostname mail.tdehan.com; this policy should be
published under domainname mail.tdehan.com in a TXT record and, if
available, in an SPF record. (notice SPF _policy_ in an SPF _record_)

You also need an SPF policy for every email domainname, examples are
"tdehan.com", "wrathcat.com" and so on. Each of these policies need to be
published under the respective domainname.
(you say: mail from doesnotexist [at] tdehan then I lookup at tdehan.com, NOT
at mail.tdehan.com !)
Each policy should list all servers authorized to use the name. There can be
more than one such server, e.g. wrathcat could also be sending via another
host such as gmail, and the policy you are about to publish should authorize
them too!


Last but not least: *how* those IP addresses are listed in a policy is a
choice you have to make.

Listing each host by its address is the least resource intensive on the
internet.

Listing each host by its name is fine if the addresses change a lot but the
names do not.

Listing each host by its function is fine in some cases, but usually it is
just a waste of resources (IMHO, of course).


All policies start with "v=spf1".
If you just need to authorize one host, you can do so using
"ip4:70.89.155.193".
Most policies end with "-all".

Concatenate using spaces and get "v=spf1 ip4:70.89.155.193 -all"

Publish this policy for each domain name used for email:

mail.tdehan.com because it is the hostname sending mail and saying hello,
tdehan.com because your computer is authorized to send mail from anyone @
tdehan.com
wrathcat.com because your computer is authorized to send mail from anyone @
wrathcat.com
and so on


The use of hostname mail.wrathcat.com pointing to your IP address is
somewhat wrong. It won't hurt you and it has nothing to do with SPF, but
nevertheless:

1: lookup "who receives mail for wrathcat.com". Answer: "mail.wrathcat.com"
2: lookup "What is the address for mail.wrathcat.com". Answer
"70.89.155.193"
3: connect to 70.89.155.193 and send mail
4: lookup "who receives mail for tdehan.com". Answer: "mail.tdehan.com"
5: lookup "What is the address for mail.tdehan.com". Answer:
"70.89.155.193"
6: connect to 70.89.155.193 and send mail

Change this to:

1: lookup "who receives mail for wrathcat.com". Answer: "mail.tdehan.com"
2: lookup "What is the address for mail.tdehan.com". Answer "70.89.155.193"
3: connect to 70.89.155.193 and send mail
4: lookup "who receives mail for tdehan.com". Answer: "mail.tdehan.com"
5: use address still cached
6: connect to 70.89.155.193 and send mail

Short term benefit: step 5 needs no DNS lookup.

Now consider what you have to do when box mail.tdehan.com is moved to
another IP address. Do you want to make one DNS update (for
mail.tdehan.com) or do you want to spend the whole afternoon looping through
"mail.{next_domain}.com" ?




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rob.macgregor at gmail

Oct 14, 2008, 8:51 AM

Post #16 of 16 (4185 views)
Permalink
Re: Now I am really confused.... [In reply to]

On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 16:36, Timothy DeHan <timothy [at] tdehan> wrote:
> Yes, I have used the many email testers for SPF from the URL below and get
> different responses.

And those different responses would be...?

> I am not clear what you mean below by "one per server". Are you referring
> to each email domain as a server?

In this case by server I mean host, or device with an IP address. You
can only have a single reverse DNS entry per IP address.

--
Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he
doesn't become a monster. Friedrich Nietzsche


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