Mailing List Archive: SPF: Discuss

Re: SPF & SenderID

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nobody at xyzzy

Oct 31, 2006, 11:44 PM

Post #1 of 6 (6353 views)
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Re: SPF & SenderID

Nils Ackermann wrote on spf.help:

> "v=spf1 mx/28 -all"
> "spf2.0/pra ?all"

> The second follows the recommendation on new.openspf.org:

> Unless you have researched and developed a PRA policy, you should
> publish an empty spf2.0/pra record.

Trying to check this I stumbled over some minor issues. With
Google's help I arrived at http://new.openspf.org/SPF_vs_Sender_ID

That has a link to the old IETF MARID charter. A better link
is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARID

Another link is http://new.openspf.org/blobs/spf-community-position

That page might need an update if all patent issues are irrelevant
today (?). I missed the list of signatures, therefore I tried my
link http://www.OpenSPF.org/OpenSPF_community_position_v102.html

That ran into a timeout trying to connect old.openspf.org - is
old.openspf.org intentionally down ? If *yes* some redirections
need an update. And probably my "position" link needs an update,
I need a "position page" with a link to the signatures (it's no
problem if that list is closed after two years, but I guess it
still exists somewhere).

Frank

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markwolk at gmail

Nov 1, 2006, 12:26 AM

Post #2 of 6 (6029 views)
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Re: Re: SPF & SenderID [In reply to]

The numerous experiments I ran about sending mail to Hotmail tend to
prove that it is a reputation system based on the sending email
service, and that SPF is totally ignored by Hotmail (and can be even
harmful in some cases). Mails sent through controlledmail.com,
hotmail.com, aol.com, msn.com and some others get through just fine;
mails sent by other providers like mailsnare.net, tuffmail.com,
yahoo.com end up in Hotmail's junk mail folder.

For the time being I am using controlledmail.com to send my mails to
Hotmail, but I also have a free aol.com and a premium msn.com account
in case my preferred service controlledmail.com falls in Hotmail's
disgrace for some obscure reason.

Another way to make sure that your email will get through to Hotmail
is to attach a jpg or txt of at least 500kb - that will bypass any
filters (even if you put "Viagra" in the subject!).

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julian at mehnle

Nov 1, 2006, 3:59 AM

Post #3 of 6 (6028 views)
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Re: SPF & SenderID [In reply to]

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Frank Ellermann wrote:
> Nils Ackermann wrote on spf.help:
> > "v=spf1 mx/28 -all"
> > "spf2.0/pra ?all"
> >
> > The second follows the recommendation on new.openspf.org:
> >
> > Unless you have researched and developed a PRA policy, you should
> > publish an empty spf2.0/pra record.
>
> Trying to check this I stumbled over some minor issues. With Google's
> help I arrived at http://new.openspf.org/SPF_vs_Sender_ID
>
> That has a link to the old IETF MARID charter. A better link is
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARID

I replaced the link to the old MARID charter with the Wikipedia link,
thanks.

> Another link is http://new.openspf.org/blobs/spf-community-position

That one is already linked from the "SPF vs Sender ID" page.

> That page might need an update if all patent issues are irrelevant
> today (?).

No, I don't think so. That page never has cared about the PRA patent issue
(search for "patent", you'll find nothing), so there is nothing to update.
If Microsoft's OSP initiative proves to still being incompatible to open
source, we might however want to change that and begin explaining the
patent issue (on that page or another one).

> I missed the list of signatures, therefore I tried my
> link http://www.OpenSPF.org/OpenSPF_community_position_v102.html
> That ran into a timeout trying to connect old.openspf.org - is
> old.openspf.org intentionally down ?

http://old.openspf.org was hosted by James Couzens. It is unreachable
because old.openspf.org points to an old IP address of the server that
hosts this website (mail.lost-carrier.com, formerly A 142.179.94.230, now
A 24.83.68.35). I wasn't aware before, that the server had simply moved,
so I thought that James had taken down the site. I had tried to contact
him about it, but failed.

I have now asked Wayne to switch old.openspf.org to point to earbone.
openspf.org (the SPF website host) instead, so that should bring this
website back under our control.

> [...] And probably my "position" link needs an update, I need a
> "position page" with a link to the signatures (it's no problem if that
> list is closed after two years, but I guess it still exists somewhere).

I have salvaged all the relevant stuff from mail.lost-carrier.com now:

http://new.openspf.org/blobs/spf-community-position.html
http://new.openspf.org/blobs/spf-community-position-signatories.html
http://new.openspf.org/blobs/usa-ftc-open-letter.pdf

(Omitting the file name extensions is probably a good idea, http://new.
openspf.org is properly configured for multi-views.)

Redirections from http://(www.)openspf.org have been updated. If Wayne
makes the DNS update, I could configure redirects from http://old.openspf.
org, too.

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claire at marine-recruitment

Nov 1, 2006, 4:32 AM

Post #4 of 6 (6026 views)
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Re: Re: SPF & SenderID [In reply to]

Mark Wolk wrote:
> The numerous experiments I ran about sending mail to Hotmail tend to
> prove that it is a reputation system based on the sending email
> service, and that SPF is totally ignored by Hotmail (and can be even
> harmful in some cases). Mails sent through controlledmail.com,
> hotmail.com, aol.com, msn.com and some others get through just fine;
> mails sent by other providers like mailsnare.net, tuffmail.com,
> yahoo.com end up in Hotmail's junk mail folder.
>
> For the time being I am using controlledmail.com to send my mails to
> Hotmail, but I also have a free aol.com and a premium msn.com account
> in case my preferred service controlledmail.com falls in Hotmail's
> disgrace for some obscure reason.
>
Our own experience would seem to support this. We have the misfortune
of sharing a web server with other companies whose conduct impacts on
our ability to get mail delivered. For 3 weeks in June, all e-mail to
Hotmail and Yahoo addresses failed. Despite our web hosts claim that
this was due to problems at the receiving end, we managed to resend
every one of them successfully through controlledmail.com. The
difference was down to the service provider - our web hosts are
indifferent to any abuse of their server regardless of any impact on
the reputation of the server's IP address. On the other hand
controlledmail.com is probably unique in adopting a more proactive
approach in preventing abuse in the first place.

Claire

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nobody at xyzzy

Nov 1, 2006, 6:28 AM

Post #5 of 6 (6029 views)
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Re: SPF & SenderID [In reply to]

Julian Mehnle wrote:

>> Another link is http://new.openspf.org/blobs/spf-community-position

> That one is already linked from the "SPF vs Sender ID" page.

ACK, I was talking about two links found on that page in that part.

> I have salvaged all the relevant stuff from mail.lost-carrier.com now:
> http://new.openspf.org/blobs/spf-community-position.html

Yes, that's exactly the page I need, thanks, I'll update my link.

> Omitting the file name extensions is probably a good idea

Apparently not for this page, without ".html" I don't get a link to
the signatures at the top. The first line "see the list" etc., is
only shown with ".html".

Comparing the sources: two differences, 6 critical lines with the
link are lost in the version without "html", and a comment changed
from old.openspf.org to openspf.org.

I guess you can copy the ".html" version over the version without
"html" (at least for that page, I didn't compare any other pages)

> I could configure redirects from http://old.openspf.org, too.

If that's still relevant anywhere, and you don't need "old" for the
planned switch "new" to "www" (e.g. for bulk "www" to "old" copies)

Frank

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julian at mehnle

Nov 1, 2006, 7:43 AM

Post #6 of 6 (6019 views)
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Re: SPF & SenderID [In reply to]

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Hash: SHA1

Frank Ellermann wrote:
> Julian Mehnle wrote:
> > Omitting the file name extensions is probably a good idea
>
> Apparently not for this page, without ".html" I don't get a link to the
> signatures at the top. The first line "see the list" etc., is only shown
> with ".html".
>
> Comparing the sources: two differences, 6 critical lines with the link
> are lost in the version without "html", and a comment changed from
> old.openspf.org to openspf.org.

Empty your browser cache. I was just editing that link in a few hours ago.

> > I could configure redirects from http://old.openspf.org, too.
>
> If that's still relevant anywhere, and you don't need "old" for the
> planned switch "new" to "www" (e.g. for bulk "www" to "old" copies)

I made http://old identical to what's currently http://www. When the
website switch comes, we'll just move http://new to http://www, and
http://old will keep conserving the old site.

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