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Is spamming legal in the UK ?

 

 

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per at computer

Oct 23, 2009, 2:20 AM

Post #1 of 10 (652 views)
Permalink
Is spamming legal in the UK ?

I was just spammed by T-mobile (UK).  Seems incredible that an otherwise
reputable company would sink so low - does anyone know if spamming
(given the right conditions) is legal in the UK ?


/Per Jessen, Zürich


rehmer at teltarif

Oct 23, 2009, 1:54 AM

Post #2 of 10 (628 views)
Permalink
Re: Is spamming legal in the UK ? [In reply to]

Hi,

i dont know it exactly but i dont think it. One day before the
Bundestagswahl in Germany. Guido Westerwelle (Leader from an big faction)
send around a Spam-Mail to vote for his faction. I think its enough that
you can say i get the adresses legally eg. from an adress trader or
something else. Then you mostly have no Problems to send around spam.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Andreas Rehmer - IT
--------------
Tel.: 030/453081-506




teltarif.de Onlineverlag GmbH
Alt-Moabit 96c, 10559 Berlin
Tel: +49 (0)30 453 081-0
Fax: +49 (0)30 453 081-11
Mail: mailto:info [at] teltarif
WWW: http://www.teltarif.de

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On Fri, 23 Oct 2009, Per Jessen wrote:

> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:38:06
> From: Per Jessen <per [at] computer>
> To: users [at] spamassassin
> Subject: Is spamming legal in the UK ?
>
> I was just spammed by T-mobile (UK).  Seems incredible that an otherwise
> reputable company would sink so low - does anyone know if spamming
> (given the right conditions) is legal in the UK ?
>
>
> /Per Jessen, Zürich
>
>


support-spamassassin at oeko

Oct 23, 2009, 2:06 AM

Post #3 of 10 (623 views)
Permalink
Re: Is spamming legal in the UK ? [In reply to]

Hi,

On Fri, 23.10.2009 at 10:54:02 +0200, Andreas Rehmer <rehmer [at] teltarif> wrote:
> i dont know it exactly but i dont think it. One day before the
> Bundestagswahl in Germany. Guido Westerwelle (Leader from an big faction)
> send around a Spam-Mail to vote for his faction. I think its enough that
> you can say i get the adresses legally eg. from an adress trader or
> something else. Then you mostly have no Problems to send around spam.

I seriously doubt it, besides this probably not being applicable to
spamming from the UK (not Germany).


The following does only apply to Germany, so you might consider it OT:

Things might be halfway ok if this address trader was eg. Schober or
so, but I'm pretty sure that you don't stand on this leg in front of
the court if you purchased one of the "xy million emails - verified -
for only $100" CDs that float around the 'Net. Thankfully, a recent
court decision effectively says that if you can't prove that a
certain user went through double-opt-in, then you are a spammer, and
are liable to pay damages towards the spammed subject.

Please see
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Landgericht-weitet-Schutz-vor-Spam-aus-836298.html
for the details of the story (in German).

FWIW, I also already considered taking big name ("blue chip company")
spammers, who seem to think their big names make them sit above the
law, to court for spamming me and not stopping it, despite my trying to
opt out of their system.


Kind regards,
--Toni++


support-spamassassin at oeko

Oct 23, 2009, 2:47 AM

Post #4 of 10 (633 views)
Permalink
Re: Is spamming legal in the UK ? [In reply to]

Hi,

On Fri, 23.10.2009 at 11:32:16 +0200, Per Jessen <per [at] computer> wrote:
> Toni Mueller wrote:
> > I seriously doubt it, besides this probably not being applicable to
> > spamming from the UK (not Germany).
>
> One interesting thing about the T-Mobile spam I got is - it was clearly
> sent on behalf of T-Mobile UK, but sent by fagms.net / fagms.de =
> United MailSolutions GmbH in Duesseldorf.

well, if T-Mobile UK admits to eg. having contracted United
MailSolutions GmbH, then I'd say it's ultimately their responsibility.
But I don't know how you can proceed against them (eg. which laws
apply).

FYI, T-something aggravated some of their resellers just a few months
ago by cutting them off and asking damages from them for not conforming
to certain customer protection laws (the details evade me atm).


Kind regards,
--Toni++


prandal at herefordshire

Oct 23, 2009, 2:54 AM

Post #5 of 10 (627 views)
Permalink
RE: Is spamming legal in the UK ? [In reply to]

Yes and no.

The official line is here:

http://www.ico.gov.uk/what_we_cover/privacy_and_electronic_communications.aspx

Cheers,

Phil

--
Phil Randal | Networks Engineer
NHS Herefordshire & Herefordshire Council | Deputy Chief Executive's Office | I.C.T. Services Division
Thorn Office Centre, Rotherwas, Hereford, HR2 6JT
Tel: 01432 260160
email: prandal [at] herefordshire

Any opinion expressed in this e-mail or any attached files are those of the individual and not necessarily those of Herefordshire Council.

This e-mail and any attached files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the addressee. This communication may contain material protected by law from being passed on. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this e-mail in error, you are advised that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please contact the sender immediately and destroy all copies of it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Per Jessen [mailto:per [at] computer]
Sent: 23 October 2009 09:38
To: users [at] spamassassin
Subject: Is spamming legal in the UK ?

I was just spammed by T-mobile (UK).  Seems incredible that an otherwise reputable company would sink so low - does anyone know if spamming (given the right conditions) is legal in the UK ?


/Per Jessen, Zürich

Any opinion expressed in this e-mail or any attached files are those of the individual and not necessarily those of Herefordshire Council.
You should be aware that Herefordshire Council monitors its email service.
This e-mail and any attached files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the addressee. This communication may contain material protected by law from being passed on. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this e-mail in error, you are advised that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please contact the sender immediately and destroy all copies of it.


richard at buzzhost

Oct 23, 2009, 3:19 AM

Post #6 of 10 (623 views)
Permalink
Re: Is spamming legal in the UK ? [In reply to]

On Fri, 2009-10-23 at 10:38 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
> I was just spammed by T-mobile (UK). Seems incredible that an otherwise
> reputable company would sink so low - does anyone know if spamming
> (given the right conditions) is legal in the UK ?
>
>
> /Per Jessen, Zürich
>
Recently I've caught lots of T-Mobile Spam - but it's not what it seems.
Mine has all come from a well know spam outfit:

c01-ltd.co.uk -> openviewtime.co.uk

Received: from pool41-50.mail.openviewtime.co.uk
(pool41-50.mail.openviewtime.co.uk [213.41.41.50])

Which ultimately come back down to:

Colt Telecommunication France NOC 213.41.41.0 - 213.41.41.255

The amount of French & Spanish IP's I see spamming is something else.
It's second only to Brazil.


Your actual question - is spamming legal in the UK. The answer is NO,it
is not legal to send spam in the UK. Usual caveats apply, must be
'spam' (what is spam?), must be aimed at individuals (not business to
business) and can you prove who actually sent it....

Quite apart from the guidelines on sending UCE in the UK, there are
criminal laws that can be put to use - the two common ones:

Telecommunications Act 1984 Section 43:

Improper use of public telecommunication system
(b) sends by those means, for the purpose of causing annoyance,
inconvenience or needless anxiety to another

And far more useful is The Protection from Harassment Act of 1997.

There are also laws covering things like Data Protection which, whilst
lame in enforcement, exist.



.


richard at buzzhost

Oct 23, 2009, 3:22 AM

Post #7 of 10 (629 views)
Permalink
Re: Is spamming legal in the UK ? [In reply to]

I need to add this is in ADDITION to guidelines mostly aimed at junk
faxes published here and already quoted:

http://www.ico.gov.uk/what_we_cover/privacy_and_electronic_communications.aspx


per at computer

Oct 23, 2009, 4:20 AM

Post #8 of 10 (628 views)
Permalink
Re: Is spamming legal in the UK ? [In reply to]

Toni Mueller wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, 23.10.2009 at 10:54:02 +0200, Andreas Rehmer
> <rehmer [at] teltarif> wrote:
>> i dont know it exactly but i dont think it. One day before the
>> Bundestagswahl in Germany. Guido Westerwelle (Leader from an big
>> faction) send around a Spam-Mail to vote for his faction. I think its
>> enough that you can say i get the adresses legally eg. from an adress
>> trader or something else. Then you mostly have no Problems to send
>> around spam.
>
> I seriously doubt it, besides this probably not being applicable to
> spamming from the UK (not Germany).

One interesting thing about the T-Mobile spam I got is - it was clearly
sent on behalf of T-Mobile UK, but sent by fagms.net / fagms.de =
United MailSolutions GmbH in Duesseldorf.


/Per Jessen, Zürich


per at computer

Oct 23, 2009, 4:20 AM

Post #9 of 10 (626 views)
Permalink
RE: Is spamming legal in the UK ? [In reply to]

Randal, Phil wrote:

> Yes and no.
>
> The official line is here:
>
>
http://www.ico.gov.uk/what_we_cover/privacy_and_electronic_communications.aspx
>
> Cheers,
> Phil

Thanks Phil.

The two most pertinent lines would appear to be:

1) The sending of unsolicited direct marketing by phone, fax, email,
text or any other electronic means is strictly regulated.

2) The regulations do not cover electronic mail marketing messages sent
to businesses.

What if you claim you were spamming, uh, emailing a business contact ...
That anti-spam regulation seems as silly and useless as our Swiss ditto.


/Per Jessen, Zürich


per at computer

Oct 23, 2009, 4:20 AM

Post #10 of 10 (628 views)
Permalink
Re: Is spamming legal in the UK ? [In reply to]

Toni Mueller wrote:

> On Fri, 23.10.2009 at 11:32:16 +0200, Per Jessen <per [at] computer>
> wrote:
>> Toni Mueller wrote:
>> > I seriously doubt it, besides this probably not being applicable to
>> > spamming from the UK (not Germany).
>>
>> One interesting thing about the T-Mobile spam I got is - it was
>> clearly sent on behalf of T-Mobile UK, but sent by fagms.net /
>> fagms.de = United MailSolutions GmbH in Duesseldorf.
>
> well, if T-Mobile UK admits to eg. having contracted United
> MailSolutions GmbH, then I'd say it's ultimately their responsibility.

Yeah.

> But I don't know how you can proceed against them (eg. which laws
> apply).

I've already upgraded my ruleset, i.e. more points to mails from
fagms.[net|de].


/Per Jessen, Zürich

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