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Is SQLite no longer supported?

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todd at chaka

Nov 23, 2009, 7:33 PM

Post #1 of 11 (865 views)
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Is SQLite no longer supported?

I just checked RT out of git and ran:

./configure --enable-layout=inplace --with-my-user-group --with-db-typ=SQLite

But the database type is set to 'mysql' in RT_Config.pm.

What gives? The schema.SQLite file still exists.
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jesse at bestpractical

Nov 23, 2009, 7:35 PM

Post #2 of 11 (832 views)
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Re: Is SQLite no longer supported? [In reply to]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 10:33:16PM -0500, Todd Chapman wrote:
> I just checked RT out of git and ran:
>
> ./configure --enable-layout=inplace --with-my-user-group --with-db-typ=SQLite

It helps if you don't misspell '--with-db-type'

>
> But the database type is set to 'mysql' in RT_Config.pm.
>
> What gives? The schema.SQLite file still exists.
> _______________________________________________
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todd at chaka

Nov 23, 2009, 7:37 PM

Post #3 of 11 (842 views)
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Re: Is SQLite no longer supported? [In reply to]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Jesse Vincent <jesse [at] bestpractical> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 10:33:16PM -0500, Todd Chapman wrote:
>> I just checked RT out of git and ran:
>>
>> ./configure --enable-layout=inplace --with-my-user-group --with-db-typ=SQLite
>
> It helps if you don't misspell '--with-db-type'
>

Crap. Thanks Jesse!

>
>>
>> But the database type is set to 'mysql' in RT_Config.pm.
>>
>> What gives? The schema.SQLite file still exists.
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://lists.bestpractical.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rt-users
>>
>> Community help: http://wiki.bestpractical.com
>> Commercial support: sales [at] bestpractical
>>
>>
>> Discover RT's hidden secrets with RT Essentials from O'Reilly Media.
>> Buy a copy at http://rtbook.bestpractical.com
>>
>
> --
>
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ivoras at gmail

Nov 24, 2009, 3:02 PM

Post #4 of 11 (815 views)
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Re: Is SQLite no longer supported? [In reply to]

2009/11/24 Todd Chapman <todd [at] chaka>:
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Jesse Vincent <jesse [at] bestpractical> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 10:33:16PM -0500, Todd Chapman wrote:
>>> I just checked RT out of git and ran:
>>>
>>> ./configure --enable-layout=inplace --with-my-user-group --with-db-typ=SQLite
>>
>> It helps if you don't misspell '--with-db-type'
>>
>
> Crap. Thanks Jesse!

Slightly offtopic - is there some "best practice" limit saying when
SQLite stops being efficient and it's time to use something bigger? Or
in other words, how large are average SQLite installations in terms of
users, tickets, etc.?
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toml at bitstatement

Nov 24, 2009, 3:54 PM

Post #5 of 11 (831 views)
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Re: Is SQLite no longer supported? [In reply to]

> Slightly offtopic - is there some "best practice" limit saying when
> SQLite stops being efficient and it's time to use something bigger? Or
> in other words, how large are average SQLite installations in terms of
> users, tickets, etc.?

In my opinion, I would say that SQLite is appropriate for testing and
development work, where you have developers working on customizations of
RT. I don't think SQLite is appropriate for production environments of
any size. But that's just me.

--
--
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stuart.browne at ausregistry

Nov 24, 2009, 3:57 PM

Post #6 of 11 (816 views)
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Re: Is SQLite no longer supported? [In reply to]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rt-users-bounces [at] lists [mailto:rt-users-
> bounces [at] lists] On Behalf Of Tom Lahti
> Sent: Wednesday, 25 November 2009 10:55
> To: Ivan Voras
> Cc: rt-users
> Subject: Re: [rt-users] Is SQLite no longer supported?
>
> > Slightly offtopic - is there some "best practice" limit saying when
> > SQLite stops being efficient and it's time to use something bigger?
> Or
> > in other words, how large are average SQLite installations in terms
> of
> > users, tickets, etc.?
>
> In my opinion, I would say that SQLite is appropriate for testing and
> development work, where you have developers working on customizations
> of
> RT. I don't think SQLite is appropriate for production environments of
> any size. But that's just me.

I'd have to completely with this.

SQLite's complete lack of threading model means responding to a single request at a time.

Simply put, if you have enough users that the possibility of multiple people requesting information at the same time, or a user request happening when an external ticket comes in (email via rt-mailgate etc.), then you're going to be causing users to stall, waiting.

You may be able to get away with it for a small number of concurrent users (1-5 maybe) in a low volume environment, but if you're wanting to do anything serious with email coming in at any moment, then you'd be better off setting up a MySQL/PgSQL DB. The effort isn't much different.

Stuart
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jpierce at cambridgeenergyalliance

Nov 24, 2009, 3:59 PM

Post #7 of 11 (816 views)
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Re: Is SQLite no longer supported? [In reply to]

>> Slightly offtopic - is there some "best practice" limit saying when
>> SQLite stops being efficient and it's time to use something bigger? Or
>> in other words, how large are average SQLite installations in terms of
>> users, tickets, etc.?
>
> In my opinion, I would say that SQLite is appropriate for testing and
> development work, where you have developers working on customizations of
> RT. �I don't think SQLite is appropriate for production environments of
> any size. �But that's just me.

SQLite could be okay for very small/low-concurrency production systems.
Compare Firefox's use of SQLite for its data stores. Of course, as you
may have experienced, the system starts to falter with several
thousand
entries in Places.sqlite (bookmarks + history).
--
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jesse at bestpractical

Nov 24, 2009, 4:00 PM

Post #8 of 11 (817 views)
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Re: Is SQLite no longer supported? [In reply to]

> Slightly offtopic - is there some "best practice" limit saying when
> SQLite stops being efficient and it's time to use something bigger? Or
> in other words, how large are average SQLite installations in terms of
> users, tickets, etc.?

We don't recommend that you use RT on SQLite in production, generally.

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toml at bitstatement

Nov 24, 2009, 4:05 PM

Post #9 of 11 (814 views)
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Re: Is SQLite no longer supported? [In reply to]

> SQLite's complete lack of threading model means responding to a single request at a time.
>
> Simply put, if you have enough users that the possibility of multiple people requesting information at the same time, or a user request happening when an external ticket comes in (email via rt-mailgate etc.), then you're going to be causing users to stall, waiting.
>
> You may be able to get away with it for a small number of concurrent users (1-5 maybe) in a low volume environment, but if you're wanting to do anything serious with email coming in at any moment, then you'd be better off setting up a MySQL/PgSQL DB. The effort isn't much different.
>
> Stuart

I was thinking more in terms of reporting reliability.

In short, SQLite is not ACID compliant. If underneath you are not ACID
compliant, then there is no assurance that what's in a ticket's history
necessarily reflects reality. History items may have been lost due to
power outages, locking issues, buggy web server software, etc etc etc.

Without ACID compliance, you really don't have an audit trail. You can
pretend you do, but you really don't :)

--
--
Tom Lahti, SCMDBA, LPIC-1
BIT LLC
(425)251-0833 x 117
http://www.bitstatement.net/
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ivoras at gmail

Nov 25, 2009, 7:29 AM

Post #10 of 11 (809 views)
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Re: Is SQLite no longer supported? [In reply to]

2009/11/25 Tom Lahti <toml [at] bitstatement>:
>> SQLite's complete lack of threading model means responding to a single
>> request at a time.
>>
>> Simply put, if you have enough users that the possibility of multiple
>> people requesting information at the same time, or a user request happening
>> when an external ticket comes in (email via rt-mailgate etc.), then you're
>> going to be causing users to stall, waiting.
>>
>> You may be able to get away with it for a small number of concurrent users
>> (1-5 maybe) in a low volume environment, but if you're wanting to do
>> anything serious with email coming in at any moment, then you'd be better
>> off setting up a MySQL/PgSQL DB. The effort isn't much different.
>>
>> Stuart
>
> I was thinking more in terms of reporting reliability.
>
> In short, SQLite is not ACID compliant. If underneath you are not ACID
> compliant, then there is no assurance that what's in a ticket's history
> necessarily reflects reality. History items may have been lost due to power
> outages, locking issues, buggy web server software, etc etc etc.
>
> Without ACID compliance, you really don't have an audit trail. You can
> pretend you do, but you really don't :)

In defence of SQLite (not that I'm especially cheering for it), it
actually is ACID compliant (http://www.sqlite.org/transactional.html,
http://www.sqlite.org/atomiccommit.html) and concurreny issues only
affect writers (readers are fully concurrent;
http://www.sqlite.org/lockingv3.html,
http://www.sqlite.org/faq.html#q6), so my question really was more
directed to real-world experiences with rt3 and SQLite rather than
rumours :)
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toml at bitstatement

Nov 25, 2009, 1:24 PM

Post #11 of 11 (800 views)
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Re: Is SQLite no longer supported? [In reply to]

> In defence of SQLite (not that I'm especially cheering for it), it
> actually is ACID compliant (http://www.sqlite.org/transactional.html,
> http://www.sqlite.org/atomiccommit.html) and concurreny issues only
> affect writers (readers are fully concurrent;
> http://www.sqlite.org/lockingv3.html,
> http://www.sqlite.org/faq.html#q6), so my question really was more
> directed to real-world experiences with rt3 and SQLite rather than
> rumours :)

It wasn't the last time I looked at it. I still wonder about
transaction isolation levels, but as long as RT doesn't use BEGIN,
COMMIT or ROLLBACK, I guess that doesn't matter much.

--
--
Tom Lahti, SCMDBA, LPIC-1
BIT LLC
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http://www.bitstatement.net/
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