Mailing List Archive: Qmail: users

mbox file rfc 4155 iPhone fail

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mark at markfalk

May 12, 2009, 4:10 PM

Post #1 of 4 (1296 views)
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mbox file rfc 4155 iPhone fail

I'm using qmail with Dovecot for IMAP. The problem I'm having is that the
timestamps on my iPhone are all 7 hours ahead. In outlook they are fine.

The very first line of a mail message taken from my ~/Mailbox files is being
written in UTC time:

From vmwareteam [at] connect Fri May 08 03:16:33 2009
Return-Path: <vmwareteam [at] connect>
Received: (qmail 9031 invoked from network); 7 May 2009 20:16:33 -0700
DomainKey-Status: no signature
Received: from mta286.mail.mud.yahoo.com (209.191.88.39)
by domain.com with SMTP; 7 May 2009 20:16:33 -0700

The iPhone is using this time as opposed to outlook which is using the
Received time. RFC 4155 states the time should be in UTC. Has anyone else
run into this?

http://homepages.tesco.net./~J.deBoynePollard/FGA/mail-mbox-formats.html

"the date that the message was delivered to the mailbox, in the Standard C
asctime() format (i.e. in English, with the redundant weekday, and without
timezone information)

For best results, and for the same reasons that filesystem formats store
file timestamps in UTC, the delivery date should be treated as the UTC time
of delivery.

Some specifications attempt to change existing practice by fiat, redefining
the date to be in the form of a date-time token from RFC 2822."

Anyone else run into this?

Thanks,
Mark

kyle-qmail at memoryhole

May 12, 2009, 4:29 PM

Post #2 of 4 (1206 views)
Permalink

Re: mbox file rfc 4155 iPhone fail [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On Tuesday, May 12 at 04:10 PM, quoth Mark Falk:
> I'm using qmail with Dovecot for IMAP.

Are you using qmail to deliver to the mbox, or are you using Dovecot's
LDA?

> The problem I'm having is that the timestamps on my iPhone are all 7
> hours ahead. In outlook they are fine.

They're reporting different timestamps - Outlook is parsing the
header, while the iPhone is displaying the server's INTERNALDATE.

> http://homepages.tesco.net./~J.deBoynePollard/FGA/mail-mbox-formats.html

I've never run into this specific issue, but this is one (of many) of
the reasons I tend to avoid using mbox unless there's an overwhelming
benefit to using it (e.g. archival storage).

Unfortunately, aside from the RFC you cite (which is relatively
recent), as you can tell there's very little in the way of a
"standardized" mbox format. Jonathan's webpage even says "For best
results, and for the same reasons that filesystem formats store file
timestamps in UTC, the delivery date should be treated as the UTC time
of delivery." But that's advice, not a requirement of the format.

Since there are so many mutually incompatable mbox formats, generally
speaking the best way to handle mbox is to use as few different pieces
of software to operate on them as you can. In other words, I think the
solution to your problem is to use the Dovecot LDA to deliver messages
to the mbox instead of qmail or whatever other tool you're using. That
way the date is stored in whatever format Dovecot prefers it to be in
(e.g. if Dovecot deviates from whatever published mbox "standard" (an
amusing concept) we can find, it won't matter, because the mbox is
only ever touched by Dovecot). Generally speaking, using Dovecot's LDA
is accomplished by adding something like this to your .qmail file:

|deliver -m INBOX
# That is equivalent to:
# ./Mailbox

You may need additional arguments to `deliver` depending on your
Dovecot setup.

~Kyle
- --
If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if
you really make them think, they'll hate you.
-- Don Marquis
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mark at markfalk

May 13, 2009, 12:15 PM

Post #3 of 4 (1199 views)
Permalink

RE: mbox file rfc 4155 iPhone fail [In reply to]

Thanks for the reply. I may end up biting the bullet and moving to maildir.
I'm actually using procmail as my LDA, and not sure I want to convert my
recipes to sieve.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Wheeler [mailto:kyle-qmail [at] memoryhole]
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:30 PM
To: qmail [at] list
Subject: Re: mbox file rfc 4155 iPhone fail

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On Tuesday, May 12 at 04:10 PM, quoth Mark Falk:
> I'm using qmail with Dovecot for IMAP.

Are you using qmail to deliver to the mbox, or are you using Dovecot's
LDA?

> The problem I'm having is that the timestamps on my iPhone are all 7
> hours ahead. In outlook they are fine.

They're reporting different timestamps - Outlook is parsing the
header, while the iPhone is displaying the server's INTERNALDATE.

> http://homepages.tesco.net./~J.deBoynePollard/FGA/mail-mbox-formats.html

I've never run into this specific issue, but this is one (of many) of
the reasons I tend to avoid using mbox unless there's an overwhelming
benefit to using it (e.g. archival storage).

Unfortunately, aside from the RFC you cite (which is relatively
recent), as you can tell there's very little in the way of a
"standardized" mbox format. Jonathan's webpage even says "For best
results, and for the same reasons that filesystem formats store file
timestamps in UTC, the delivery date should be treated as the UTC time
of delivery." But that's advice, not a requirement of the format.

Since there are so many mutually incompatable mbox formats, generally
speaking the best way to handle mbox is to use as few different pieces
of software to operate on them as you can. In other words, I think the
solution to your problem is to use the Dovecot LDA to deliver messages
to the mbox instead of qmail or whatever other tool you're using. That
way the date is stored in whatever format Dovecot prefers it to be in
(e.g. if Dovecot deviates from whatever published mbox "standard" (an
amusing concept) we can find, it won't matter, because the mbox is
only ever touched by Dovecot). Generally speaking, using Dovecot's LDA
is accomplished by adding something like this to your .qmail file:

|deliver -m INBOX
# That is equivalent to:
# ./Mailbox

You may need additional arguments to `deliver` depending on your
Dovecot setup.

~Kyle
- --
If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if
you really make them think, they'll hate you.
-- Don Marquis
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Comment: Thank you for using encryption!

iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJKCgZaAAoJECuveozR/AWe9mcP/2SZ4Onppic9WAPs9yeJ+GGq
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kyle-qmail at memoryhole

May 13, 2009, 1:57 PM

Post #4 of 4 (1208 views)
Permalink

Re: mbox file rfc 4155 iPhone fail [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On Wednesday, May 13 at 12:15 PM, quoth Mark Falk:
> Thanks for the reply. I may end up biting the bullet and moving to
> maildir. I'm actually using procmail as my LDA, and not sure I want
> to convert my recipes to sieve.

Why would you have to convert your recipes to sieve? I use procmail
with Dovecot's LDA. It may not be the most efficient setup in the
world, but I use procmail recipes like this:

:0 H
* ^TO_kyle-mutt@
|deliver -m INBOX.Subscribed.Mutt

That, of course, is the equivalent of a rule like this:

:0 H
* ^TO_kyle-mutt@
.Subscribed.Mutt/

~Kyle
- --
The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the
Christian Religion.
-- US Treaty with Tripoly, 1797
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