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qmqp service

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iqbala-qmail at qwestip

Jan 31, 2006, 9:19 AM

Post #1 of 18 (2744 views)
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qmqp service

Hi All

I am planning to use qmqp on my qmail server. When I sent email from a
remote host using qmqp client it gets to the server just fine. However
on remote host when a cronjob fails how would it send the message to
root of the localhost since now sendmail is just a wrapper to qmqp?

Also do I need to replace the /etc/aliases on the client machines with
fastforward?

Thanks

--
Asif Iqbal
PGP Key: 0xE62693C5 KeyServer: pgp.mit.edu
"..there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit...try
to be in the first group;...less competition there." - Indira Gandhi

qmail at discworld

Jan 31, 2006, 9:32 AM

Post #2 of 18 (2681 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

Asif Iqbal <iqbala-qmail [at] qwestip> wrote:
>
> I am planning to use qmqp on my qmail server. When I sent email from a
> remote host using qmqp client it gets to the server just fine. However
> on remote host when a cronjob fails how would it send the message to
> root of the localhost since now sendmail is just a wrapper to qmqp?

? Not sure of your question. If you mean you want to have mini-qmail
installations (i.e. queueless QMQP clients feeding your QMQP server), cron
calls /usr/sbin/sendmail, sendmail calls qmail-inject as usual, and
qmail-inject calls the qmail-qmqpc client, which replaces qmail-queue.

It Just Works.

> Also do I need to replace the /etc/aliases on the client machines with
> fastforward?

queueless clients won't have /etc/aliases or fastforward at all, as they do
zero local deliveries.

Charles
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Cazabon <qmail [at] discworld>
Read http://pyropus.ca/personal/writings/12-steps-to-qmail-list-bliss.html
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iqbala-qmail at qwestip

Jan 31, 2006, 9:47 AM

Post #3 of 18 (2690 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 11:32:06AM, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> Asif Iqbal <iqbala-qmail [at] qwestip> wrote:
> >
> > I am planning to use qmqp on my qmail server. When I sent email from a
> > remote host using qmqp client it gets to the server just fine. However
> > on remote host when a cronjob fails how would it send the message to
> > root of the localhost since now sendmail is just a wrapper to qmqp?
>
> ? Not sure of your question. If you mean you want to have mini-qmail
> installations (i.e. queueless QMQP clients feeding your QMQP server), cron
> calls /usr/sbin/sendmail, sendmail calls qmail-inject as usual, and
> qmail-inject calls the qmail-qmqpc client, which replaces qmail-queue.

What I meant to ask is, what will happen to any emails that system send
to root? For example if cronjob fails a related email alert that currently
sitting in /var/mail/root folder.

Thanks

>
> It Just Works.
>
> > Also do I need to replace the /etc/aliases on the client machines with
> > fastforward?
>
> queueless clients won't have /etc/aliases or fastforward at all, as they do
> zero local deliveries.
>
> Charles
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Charles Cazabon <qmail [at] discworld>
> Read http://pyropus.ca/personal/writings/12-steps-to-qmail-list-bliss.html
> My services include qmail consulting. See http://pyropus.ca/ for details.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Asif Iqbal
PGP Key: 0xE62693C5 KeyServer: pgp.mit.edu
"..there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit...try
to be in the first group;...less competition there." - Indira Gandhi

qmail at discworld

Jan 31, 2006, 10:16 AM

Post #4 of 18 (2675 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

Asif Iqbal <iqbala-qmail [at] qwestip> wrote:
> >
> > ? Not sure of your question. If you mean you want to have mini-qmail
> > installations (i.e. queueless QMQP clients feeding your QMQP server), cron
> > calls /usr/sbin/sendmail, sendmail calls qmail-inject as usual, and
> > qmail-inject calls the qmail-qmqpc client, which replaces qmail-queue.
>
> What I meant to ask is, what will happen to any emails that system send to
> root? For example if cronjob fails a related email alert that currently
> sitting in /var/mail/root folder.

What will happen, assuming your `cron` queues a message to "root":

-cron invokes /usr/sbin/sendmail with "root" as an argument

-qmail's sendmail wrapper invokes qmail-inject

-qmail-inject qualifies "root" with the contents of
/var/qmail/control/defaulthost, and possibly
/var/qmail/control/defaultdomain

-qmail-inject invokes the qmail-queue replacement, qmail-qmqpc,
with the envelope recipient set to the address determined above

-that message is queued on your central mailhub and delivered
appropriately

Charles
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Cazabon <qmail [at] discworld>
Read http://pyropus.ca/personal/writings/12-steps-to-qmail-list-bliss.html
My services include qmail consulting. See http://pyropus.ca/ for details.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

xenophage0 at gmail

Jan 31, 2006, 11:50 AM

Post #5 of 18 (2689 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

On 1/31/06, Charles Cazabon <qmail [at] discworld> wrote:
> ? Not sure of your question. If you mean you want to have mini-qmail
> installations (i.e. queueless QMQP clients feeding your QMQP server), cron
> calls /usr/sbin/sendmail, sendmail calls qmail-inject as usual, and
> qmail-inject calls the qmail-qmqpc client, which replaces qmail-queue.

Just for my own information, does this mean that if you lose
connectivity between this host and the server, the mail is lost?

> Charles

--
Jason 'XenoPhage' Frisvold
XenoPhage0 [at] gmail

qmail at discworld

Jan 31, 2006, 12:50 PM

Post #6 of 18 (2688 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

Jason Frisvold <xenophage0 [at] gmail> wrote:
> > [mini-qmail]
>
> Just for my own information, does this mean that if you lose connectivity
> between this host and the server, the mail is lost?

No. qmail-qmqpc (the qmail-queue replacement) will exit nonzero, causing
qmail-inject to exit nonzero, causing the original program submitting the mail
to realize submissions was not successful and must be retried.

Charles
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Cazabon <qmail [at] discworld>
Read http://pyropus.ca/personal/writings/12-steps-to-qmail-list-bliss.html
My services include qmail consulting. See http://pyropus.ca/ for details.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

xenophage0 at gmail

Feb 1, 2006, 5:36 AM

Post #7 of 18 (2690 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

On 1/31/06, Charles Cazabon <qmail [at] discworld> wrote:
> No. qmail-qmqpc (the qmail-queue replacement) will exit nonzero, causing
> qmail-inject to exit nonzero, causing the original program submitting the mail
> to realize submissions was not successful and must be retried.

This assumes that the original program is smart enough to retry,
correct? ie, a web submission form would lose the data because most
of these are not smart enough to retry...

Ok, that's pretty much what I figured. Thanks for the info.

> Charles

--
Jason 'XenoPhage' Frisvold
XenoPhage0 [at] gmail

qmail at discworld

Feb 1, 2006, 6:03 AM

Post #8 of 18 (2688 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

Jason Frisvold <xenophage0 [at] gmail> wrote:
> On 1/31/06, Charles Cazabon <qmail [at] discworld> wrote:
> > No. qmail-qmqpc (the qmail-queue replacement) will exit nonzero, causing
> > qmail-inject to exit nonzero, causing the original program submitting the
> > mail to realize submissions was not successful and must be retried.
>
> This assumes that the original program is smart enough to retry, correct?

Every program that submits mail through a /usr/sbin/sendmail or similar
interface /must/ check the exit code of that process, regardless of which MTA
is actually in use. Any program that doesn't is fundamentally broken.
Similarly, an MUA that stupidly submits via SMTP must check the server
response code to the DATA command.

> ie, a web submission form would lose the data because most of these are not
> smart enough to retry...

All of my "web forms" are certainly smart enough to check the exit codes of
any processes they invoke. If yours don't, submit a bug report to the author
immediately.

Charles
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Cazabon <qmail [at] discworld>
Read http://pyropus.ca/personal/writings/12-steps-to-qmail-list-bliss.html
My services include qmail consulting. See http://pyropus.ca/ for details.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

iqbala-qmail at qwestip

Feb 9, 2006, 2:58 PM

Post #9 of 18 (2667 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 12:16:09PM, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> Asif Iqbal <iqbala-qmail [at] qwestip> wrote:
> > >
> > > ? Not sure of your question. If you mean you want to have mini-qmail
> > > installations (i.e. queueless QMQP clients feeding your QMQP server), cron
> > > calls /usr/sbin/sendmail, sendmail calls qmail-inject as usual, and
> > > qmail-inject calls the qmail-qmqpc client, which replaces qmail-queue.
> >
> > What I meant to ask is, what will happen to any emails that system send to
> > root? For example if cronjob fails a related email alert that currently
> > sitting in /var/mail/root folder.
>
> What will happen, assuming your `cron` queues a message to "root":
>
> -cron invokes /usr/sbin/sendmail with "root" as an argument
>
> -qmail's sendmail wrapper invokes qmail-inject
>
> -qmail-inject qualifies "root" with the contents of
> /var/qmail/control/defaulthost, and possibly
> /var/qmail/control/defaultdomain
>
> -qmail-inject invokes the qmail-queue replacement, qmail-qmqpc,
> with the envelope recipient set to the address determined above
>
> -that message is queued on your central mailhub and delivered
> appropriately

How would it handle /etc/alias entries like this that I used to use with
original sendmail?

\john

where john is a local account and any of john's cron job fails he gets a
error message instead of root [at] local

Thanks

--
Asif Iqbal
PGP Key: 0xE62693C5 KeyServer: pgp.mit.edu
"..there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit...try
to be in the first group;...less competition there." - Indira Gandhi

qmail at discworld

Feb 9, 2006, 3:09 PM

Post #10 of 18 (2657 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

Asif Iqbal <iqbala-qmail [at] qwestip> wrote:
> >
> > -that message is queued on your central mailhub and delivered
> > appropriately
>
> How would it handle /etc/alias entries like this that I used to use with
> original sendmail?
>
> \john
>
> where john is a local account and any of john's cron job fails he gets a
> error message instead of root [at] local

If you mean sendmail-style /etc/aliases (I don't know what /etc/alias is,
sorry), then you want to add djb's fastforward package. It's available from
his website and is linked from the main qmail page. Download it and read all
the included documentation; if you still can't figure it out, post back here
with specifics.

However, 99.99% of people don't need fastforward. Everything they want to do
can be done with simple .qmail files in ~alias/.

Charles
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Cazabon <qmail [at] discworld>
Read http://pyropus.ca/personal/writings/12-steps-to-qmail-list-bliss.html
My services include qmail consulting. See http://pyropus.ca/ for details.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

iqbala-qmail at qwestip

Feb 15, 2006, 9:41 PM

Post #11 of 18 (2652 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 11:32:06AM, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> Asif Iqbal <iqbala-qmail [at] qwestip> wrote:
> >
> > I am planning to use qmqp on my qmail server. When I sent email from a
> > remote host using qmqp client it gets to the server just fine. However
> > on remote host when a cronjob fails how would it send the message to
> > root of the localhost since now sendmail is just a wrapper to qmqp?
>
> ? Not sure of your question. If you mean you want to have mini-qmail
> installations (i.e. queueless QMQP clients feeding your QMQP server), cron
> calls /usr/sbin/sendmail, sendmail calls qmail-inject as usual, and
> qmail-inject calls the qmail-qmqpc client, which replaces qmail-queue.
>
> It Just Works.

I am slowly getting rid of sendmail and replacing it with qmqp client on
all my Solaris servers. However I noticed on some server there are cronjobs that
are using `mailx -s subject -r user [at] domain ...'. What is the easiest
way to take care of those cases. I rather then use mailx which uses SMTP
by default.

Thanks

>
> > Also do I need to replace the /etc/aliases on the client machines with
> > fastforward?
>
> queueless clients won't have /etc/aliases or fastforward at all, as they do
> zero local deliveries.
>
> Charles

--
Asif Iqbal
PGP Key: 0xE62693C5 KeyServer: pgp.mit.edu
"..there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit...try
to be in the first group;...less competition there." - Indira Gandhi

qmail at discworld

Feb 16, 2006, 6:01 AM

Post #12 of 18 (2616 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

Asif Iqbal <iqbala-qmail [at] qwestip> wrote:
> >
> > ? Not sure of your question. If you mean you want to have mini-qmail
> > installations (i.e. queueless QMQP clients feeding your QMQP server), cron
> > calls /usr/sbin/sendmail, sendmail calls qmail-inject as usual, and
> > qmail-inject calls the qmail-qmqpc client, which replaces qmail-queue.
> >
> > It Just Works.
>
> I am slowly getting rid of sendmail and replacing it with qmqp client on all
> my Solaris servers.

And as I said above, it should Just Work.

> However I noticed on some server there are cronjobs that are using `mailx -s
> subject -r user [at] domain ...'. What is the easiest way to take care of
> those cases.

? I do not understand. They should Just Work.

> I rather then use mailx which uses SMTP by default.

No, it does not. mailx invokes /usr/{sbin,lib}/sendmail. If it's ending up
going via SMTP, it's because sendmail is sending it that way. Once you remove
sendmail and install a mini-qmail on those systems, those messages will be
queued via QMQP to your qmail "hub" server.

Charles
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Cazabon <qmail [at] discworld>
Read http://pyropus.ca/personal/writings/12-steps-to-qmail-list-bliss.html
My services include qmail consulting. See http://pyropus.ca/ for details.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

iqbala-qmail at qwestip

Feb 16, 2006, 7:22 AM

Post #13 of 18 (2641 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2006 at 08:01:29AM, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> Asif Iqbal <iqbala-qmail [at] qwestip> wrote:
> > >
> > > ? Not sure of your question. If you mean you want to have mini-qmail
> > > installations (i.e. queueless QMQP clients feeding your QMQP server), cron
> > > calls /usr/sbin/sendmail, sendmail calls qmail-inject as usual, and
> > > qmail-inject calls the qmail-qmqpc client, which replaces qmail-queue.
> > >
> > > It Just Works.
> >
> > I am slowly getting rid of sendmail and replacing it with qmqp client on all
> > my Solaris servers.
>
> And as I said above, it should Just Work.
>
> > However I noticed on some server there are cronjobs that are using `mailx -s
> > subject -r user [at] domain ...'. What is the easiest way to take care of
> > those cases.
>
> ? I do not understand. They should Just Work.
>
> > I rather then use mailx which uses SMTP by default.
>
> No, it does not. mailx invokes /usr/{sbin,lib}/sendmail. If it's ending up

Excellent! Thanks a lot

> going via SMTP, it's because sendmail is sending it that way. Once you remove
> sendmail and install a mini-qmail on those systems, those messages will be
> queued via QMQP to your qmail "hub" server.
>
> Charles

--
Asif Iqbal
PGP Key: 0xE62693C5 KeyServer: pgp.mit.edu
"..there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit...try
to be in the first group;...less competition there." - Indira Gandhi

iqbala-qmail at qwestip

Feb 18, 2006, 7:19 PM

Post #14 of 18 (2633 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

On Thu, Feb 09, 2006 at 05:09:49PM, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> Asif Iqbal <iqbala-qmail [at] qwestip> wrote:
> > >
> > > -that message is queued on your central mailhub and delivered
> > > appropriately
> >
> > How would it handle /etc/alias entries like this that I used to use with
> > original sendmail?
> >
> > \john
> >
> > where john is a local account and any of john's cron job fails he gets a
> > error message instead of root [at] local
>
> If you mean sendmail-style /etc/aliases (I don't know what /etc/alias is,
> sorry), then you want to add djb's fastforward package. It's available from
> his website and is linked from the main qmail page. Download it and read all
> the included documentation; if you still can't figure it out, post back here

According to the doc

I need to create a /etc/aliases file like this

root: alias
postmaster: alias
....
blah : fred

And then ~alias/.qmail-default calls

| fastforward -d /etc/aliases.cdb

Now with mini-qmail I do not have user `alias' and how to make sure
fastforward uses the mini-qmail's `sendmail'. I also now have two
`newaliases' files--one comes with fastforward and one just a symbolic
to mini-qmail's sendmail. And two qmail dirs, /var/qmail and /var/mini-qmail.

Should I now create a alias user and virtualdomains file to complete the
message flow?

Thanks

> with specifics.
>
> However, 99.99% of people don't need fastforward. Everything they want to do
> can be done with simple .qmail files in ~alias/.
>
> Charles

--
Asif Iqbal
PGP Key: 0xE62693C5 KeyServer: pgp.mit.edu
"..there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit...try
to be in the first group;...less competition there." - Indira Gandhi

qmail at discworld

Feb 19, 2006, 8:25 AM

Post #15 of 18 (2606 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

Asif Iqbal <iqbala-qmail [at] qwestip> wrote:
> >
> > If you mean sendmail-style /etc/aliases (I don't know what /etc/alias is,
> > sorry), then you want to add djb's fastforward package.
>
> According to the doc
>
> I need to create a /etc/aliases file like this
>
> root: alias
> postmaster: alias
> ....
> blah : fred
>
> And then ~alias/.qmail-default calls
>
> | fastforward -d /etc/aliases.cdb

Yes.

> Now with mini-qmail I do not have user `alias'

Stop. You don't install this on the systems running mini-qmail, because (and
I said this once before already) /no local deliveries occur on those systems/.
Repeat after me: /no local deliveries occur on a system running mini-qmail/.

> Should I now create a alias user and virtualdomains file to complete the
> message flow?

No. You also do /not/ install fastforward on the systems running mini-qmail.

Charles
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Cazabon <qmail [at] discworld>
Read http://pyropus.ca/personal/writings/12-steps-to-qmail-list-bliss.html
My services include qmail consulting. See http://pyropus.ca/ for details.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

iqbala-qmail at qwestip

Feb 19, 2006, 8:42 AM

Post #16 of 18 (2601 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

On Sun, Feb 19, 2006 at 10:25:46AM, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> Asif Iqbal <iqbala-qmail [at] qwestip> wrote:
> > >
> > > If you mean sendmail-style /etc/aliases (I don't know what /etc/alias is,
> > > sorry), then you want to add djb's fastforward package.
> >
> > According to the doc
> >
> > I need to create a /etc/aliases file like this
> >
> > root: alias
> > postmaster: alias
> > ....
> > blah : fred
> >
> > And then ~alias/.qmail-default calls
> >
> > | fastforward -d /etc/aliases.cdb
>
> Yes.
>
> > Now with mini-qmail I do not have user `alias'
>
> Stop. You don't install this on the systems running mini-qmail, because (and
> I said this once before already) /no local deliveries occur on those systems/.
> Repeat after me: /no local deliveries occur on a system running mini-qmail/.

*no local deliveries occur on a system running mini-qmail* :-)

Thanks a lot

>
> > Should I now create a alias user and virtualdomains file to complete the
> > message flow?
>
> No. You also do /not/ install fastforward on the systems running mini-qmail.

Got it

>
> Charles

--
Asif Iqbal
PGP Key: 0xE62693C5 KeyServer: pgp.mit.edu
"..there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit...try
to be in the first group;...less competition there." - Indira Gandhi

sanjay.k.arora at gmail

Feb 19, 2006, 11:05 AM

Post #17 of 18 (2595 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

>
>
> > Stop. You don't install this on the systems running mini-qmail, because
> (and
> > I said this once before already) /no local deliveries occur on those
> systems/.
> > Repeat after me: /no local deliveries occur on a system running
> mini-qmail/.
>
> *no local deliveries occur on a system running mini-qmail* :-)

But does mini qmail have a queue. My requirement is to remove sendmail from
all my linux based systems and replace them with a qmail based small distro
(mini-qmail or anything similar...serialmail?) that will send root,
postmaster etc. to the main mail server on the network, but it should be
tolerant of network faults or server downtime and maintain the messages in a
queue till they are delivered.

B/Rgds.
Sanjay.

iqbala-qmail at qwestip

Feb 19, 2006, 12:53 PM

Post #18 of 18 (2616 views)
Permalink

Re: qmqp service [In reply to]

On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 12:35:29AM, Sanjay Arora wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Stop. You don't install this on the systems running mini-qmail, because
> > (and
> > > I said this once before already) /no local deliveries occur on those
> > systems/.
> > > Repeat after me: /no local deliveries occur on a system running
> > mini-qmail/.
> >
> > *no local deliveries occur on a system running mini-qmail* :-)
>
>
> But does mini qmail have a queue. My requirement is to remove sendmail from
> all my linux based systems and replace them with a qmail based small distro
> (mini-qmail or anything similar...serialmail?) that will send root,
> postmaster etc. to the main mail server on the network, but it should be
> tolerant of network faults or server downtime and maintain the messages in a
> queue till they are delivered.

Check the email from Charles Cazabon, dated Jan 31 on this same subject
where he explains how, on a connection failure, it gets a non-zero (I
think 451) error code and then retries.

Here is the actual email:
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/qmail/users/128626#128626

>
> B/Rgds.
> Sanjay.

--
Asif Iqbal
PGP Key: 0xE62693C5 KeyServer: pgp.mit.edu
"..there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit...try
to be in the first group;...less competition there." - Indira Gandhi

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