Mailing List Archive: Qmail: users

Adding footer in outgoing mails

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gc at rpgnet

Oct 9, 2003, 9:54 PM

Post #1 of 27 (21892 views)
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Adding footer in outgoing mails

We want to add a disclaimer as the footer in every outgoing mail. We have
added the qmailqueue patch of Bruce Guenter and qmail is working fine. But
we do not know what else have to be done for enabling the footer in the
outgoing mails. Can anyone help in this regard?

Gautam

cwilkes-qmail at ladro

Oct 9, 2003, 10:07 PM

Post #2 of 27 (21549 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 10:24:37AM +0530, Gautam Chatterji wrote:
> We want to add a disclaimer as the footer in every outgoing mail. We have
> added the qmailqueue patch of Bruce Guenter and qmail is working fine. But
> we do not know what else have to be done for enabling the footer in the
> outgoing mails. Can anyone help in this regard?

What suggestions have you tried from the archives?
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=qmail&w=2&r=1&s=footer&q=b
try some and then post what your problems are. Or better yet, post what
you find to be the best solution.

Chris

nelson at crynwr

Oct 9, 2003, 10:17 PM

Post #3 of 27 (21466 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

Gautam Chatterji writes:
> We want to add a disclaimer as the footer in every outgoing mail. We have
> added the qmailqueue patch of Bruce Guenter and qmail is working fine. But
> we do not know what else have to be done for enabling the footer in the
> outgoing mails. Can anyone help in this regard?

No. Disclaimers are stupid and worthless. Since you're not forming a
contract with the recipient, you can't bind them to anything. All you
can do is ask them to delete the email if it's not for them, which any
polite person would do anyway, and an impolite person would never do
now matter how strongly the disclaimer appealed to their sense of
shame.

--
--My blog is at angry-economist.russnelson.com | Can I recommend python?
Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | Just a thought.
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | -Dr. Jamey Hicks
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | +1 315 268 9201 FAX |

lweldon at welcoin

Oct 10, 2003, 4:31 AM

Post #4 of 27 (21419 views)
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Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

On Fri, 2003-10-10 at 00:54, Gautam Chatterji wrote:
> We want to add a disclaimer as the footer in every outgoing mail. We have
> added the qmailqueue patch of Bruce Guenter and qmail is working fine. But
> we do not know what else have to be done for enabling the footer in the
> outgoing mails. Can anyone help in this regard?
>

No. Everytime I read one of these disclaimers I think "Why do they think
they can control this? Are they completely ignorant of human nature?"

> Gautam
>
--
Larry Weldon <lweldon[at]welcoin.com>

payal-dated-1065789811.bfkfeacj at staticky

Oct 10, 2003, 5:45 AM

Post #5 of 27 (21453 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 01:17:41AM -0400, Russell Nelson wrote:
> No. Disclaimers are stupid and worthless. Since you're not forming a
> contract with the recipient, you can't bind them to anything. All you

Right. In my company I said staight no to disclaimers incuring the warth
of many people. And I don't regret it, instead I manually set up a
disclaimer on each client MUA.
BTW, won't disclaimers at MTA level break PGP messages also?
Also, is adding a "header" also not recommended at MTA level?

-Payal

--
GNU/Linux Success Stories | http://payal.staticky.com
To Unsubscribe | listname-unsubscribe[at]list.cr.yp.to
Accident, n.: A condition in which presence of mind is
good, but absence of body is better.

nelson at crynwr

Oct 10, 2003, 6:20 AM

Post #6 of 27 (21446 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

Frank Marien writes:
> Many of us don't make these policies, we just try and execute them in
> the best way possible. Having to drop QMail does not help!

The only way to "execute them in the best way possible" is to not
execute them. Look, the reason that management asks for disclaimers
is because they're ignorant. Explain to them that they're useless.
Ask to see the case law regarding the legal admissibility of email.
Point out that most disclaimers ask ridiculous things of the recipient
(and how could your company ask similar ridiculous things without
looking ridiculous itself). Point out how easy it is to forge email.
Forge email from the manager's boss saying "You're fired. Pack your
belongings and get out." For a number of managers, getting forged
email like this is a BIG wake-up call. Many of them have no clue how
easy it is to forge email.

If you just add disclaimers without any resistance, you aren't helping
your company. You're making your company look foolish and
incompetent.

--
--My blog is at angry-economist.russnelson.com | Can I recommend python?
Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | Just a thought.
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | -Dr. Jamey Hicks
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | +1 315 268 9201 FAX |

glenn-qmail at delink

Oct 10, 2003, 6:38 AM

Post #7 of 27 (21469 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 06:15:10PM +0530, Payal Rathod wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 01:17:41AM -0400, Russell Nelson wrote:
> > No. Disclaimers are stupid and worthless. Since you're not forming a
> > contract with the recipient, you can't bind them to anything. All you
>
> Right. In my company I said staight no to disclaimers incuring the warth
> of many people. And I don't regret it, instead I manually set up a
> disclaimer on each client MUA.

This is marginally better because it isn't rewriting email after it is
sent by the MUA, but it still doesn't address the absurdity of the
notice.

> BTW, won't disclaimers at MTA level break PGP messages also?
> Also, is adding a "header" also not recommended at MTA level?

It would depend on how you add the PGP signature and how you add the
disclaimer.

If multipart/signed messages are used, and the disclaimer is added
without being MIME-aware, this could obviously be a problem.

If inline signatures are used, the disclaimer would be after the
signature. I am fairly sure that most implementations of signature
verification would drop the data after the signature, but I would have
to try it out and make sure.

Adding a new MIME section if the signature and data is in another
section as an inline signature shouldn't cause a problem though.

--
Brian T Glenn
delink.net Internet Services

nelson at crynwr

Oct 10, 2003, 7:12 AM

Post #8 of 27 (21395 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

Frank Marien writes:
> And having to switch to Exchange or SunOne then having disclaimers
> anyway doesn't?

It's not that qmail can't -- it can add a footer. It's that nobody should.

--
--My blog is at angry-economist.russnelson.com | Can I recommend python?
Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | Just a thought.
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | -Dr. Jamey Hicks
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | +1 315 268 9201 FAX |

tom at openadventures

Oct 10, 2003, 9:32 AM

Post #9 of 27 (21415 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

Russell Nelson wrote:

>Frank Marien writes:
> > Many of us don't make these policies, we just try and execute them in
> > the best way possible. Having to drop QMail does not help!
>
>looking ridiculous itself). Point out how easy it is to forge email.
>Forge email from the manager's boss saying "You're fired. Pack your
>belongings and get out." For a number of managers, getting forged
>email like this is a BIG wake-up call. Many of them have no clue how
>easy it is to forge email.
>
If one signs every email using a GPG key, then isn't it possible to
prevent such forgeries?

donboy2k at hotmail

Oct 10, 2003, 9:41 AM

Post #10 of 27 (21399 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

Ok, how about this? Your boss says you MUST add one. Or what about adding
advertisments to the footer of your emails? What if I want to do that???

Can we please talk about HOW its done and not whether or not it's a good
idea?? I think each person should decide for themselves whether or not its
a good idea. If the guy's boss told him he HAS to do it, then he doesn't
really have the leisure of deciding for himself if its a good idea.

>From: Russell Nelson <nelson[at]crynwr.com>
>To: qmail[at]list.cr.yp.to
>Subject: Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails
>Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:12:05 -0400
>
>Frank Marien writes:
> > And having to switch to Exchange or SunOne then having disclaimers
> > anyway doesn't?
>
>It's not that qmail can't -- it can add a footer. It's that nobody should.
>
>--
>--My blog is at angry-economist.russnelson.com | Can I recommend python?
>Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | Just a thought.
>521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | -Dr. Jamey Hicks
>Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | +1 315 268 9201 FAX |

_________________________________________________________________
Compare Cable, DSL or Satellite plans: As low as $29.95.
https://broadband.msn.com

de5 at sws5

Oct 10, 2003, 9:53 AM

Post #11 of 27 (21386 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

"Don Walters" <donboy2k[at]hotmail.com> wrote:

>Can we please talk about HOW its done and not whether or not it's a good
>idea??

Go ahead. I'll listen. :-)

>I think each person should decide for themselves whether or not its
>a good idea. If the guy's boss told him he HAS to do it, then he doesn't
>really have the leisure of deciding for himself if its a good idea.

No, but we who aren't being compelled to implement it have the luxury
of not telling them how to do it if we don't want to.

-Dave

nelson at crynwr

Oct 10, 2003, 10:21 AM

Post #12 of 27 (21401 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

Thomas Smith writes:
> If one signs every email using a GPG key, then isn't it possible to
> prevent such forgeries?

Only if the recipient's MUA has GPG support.

--
--My blog is at angry-economist.russnelson.com | Can I recommend python?
Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | Just a thought.
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | -Dr. Jamey Hicks
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | +1 315 268 9201 FAX |

nelson at crynwr

Oct 10, 2003, 10:36 AM

Post #13 of 27 (21367 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

Don Walters writes:
> Ok, how about this? Your boss says you MUST add one. Or what about adding
> advertisments to the footer of your emails? What if I want to do that???

The MTA shouldn't be modifying the body of the email. Yes, I realize
that many other MTAs do that. Many people commit suicide each year.
That is no argument for committing suicide.

Every email client has the ability to add a signature block to the
email. Put the footer in there.

Why are people so eager to do something which is wrong? If the boss
told you to forge email from his boss, would you do that? Most people
would refuse. If an ethical judgement overrides a mangement
directive, why shouldn't a technical judgement?

> Can we please talk about HOW its done and not whether or not it's a good
> idea?? I think each person should decide for themselves whether or not its
> a good idea. If the guy's boss told him he HAS to do it, then he doesn't
> really have the leisure of deciding for himself if its a good idea.

Actually, you do. Everybody has choices about what they do.
Everybody is asked to do more than they can do. So ... work on other
things your boss has asked you to do. If your boss calls you in to
ask why you haven't inserted the disclaimer yet, you can honestly tell
him "Well, boss, I asked on the mailing list, and everybody refuses to
tell me how to insert disclaimers. They say that the MTA is the wrong
place to make that insertion. They say that we should insert them in
the user's email clients. They say that the usual disclaimer has no
legal validity and amounts to a request obeyed only by the polite, who
would be polite even without the request."

--
--My blog is at angry-economist.russnelson.com | Can I recommend python?
Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | Just a thought.
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | -Dr. Jamey Hicks
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | +1 315 268 9201 FAX |

tom at openadventures

Oct 10, 2003, 10:45 AM

Post #14 of 27 (21407 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

Don Walters wrote:

> Ok, how about this? Your boss says you MUST add one. Or what about
> adding advertisments to the footer of your emails? What if I want to
> do that???
>
> Can we please talk about HOW its done and not whether or not it's a
> good idea?? I think each person should decide for themselves whether
> or not its a good idea. If the guy's boss told him he HAS to do it,
> then he doesn't really have the leisure of deciding for himself if its
> a good idea.

Absolutely--if you feel the need to do this than have at it.

I personally haven't found anyway for qmail to do this natively (that
is, without patching the qmail-smtpd). With that in mind, check out the
following link:

http://www.ornl.gov/cts/archives/mailing-lists/qmail/2002/09/msg00440.html

This link contains a patch for qmail-smtpd to append messages with
control/footer. Keep in mind, though, that the author indicates it may
break HTML or other formatted email.

You may also be able to use a .qmail-default script if you're looking to
append locally delivered email.

Beyond that, having the footer added as part of the signature by the MUA
is probably the most reliable approach. Unfortunately, different MUAs
deal with email in different, sometimes unpredictable ways. I haven't
been able to find anything that indicates qmail supports this in its
stock configuration nor have I found many patches or other ways of
reliably appending email.

And last, but not least, qmail-scanner ( qmail-scanner.sf.net ) is
considering whethor or not to implement a similar function--though for a
slightly different purpose. Its author has added to their TODO list to,
and I quote, "append banner to bottom on posting to say it's been
scanned? Yuck." This program can also do some other types of filtering
(besides spam and virus scans) so with a few mods it may serve your purpose.

I tend to hold the same view that the list has expressed--don't add the
footer. If you /must/ add one, then do it at the MUA level so email
isn't being mangled--especially if your users are sending HTML- or
RTF-formatted emails.

That's my two cents. Hope it helps!

ml at wrinkledog

Oct 10, 2003, 11:03 AM

Post #15 of 27 (21367 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

On Friday, October 10, 2003, at 10:45 AM, Thomas Smith wrote:

>
> I personally haven't found anyway for qmail to do this natively (that
> is, without patching the qmail-smtpd). With that in mind, check out
> the following link:
>
> http://www.ornl.gov/cts/archives/mailing-lists/qmail/2002/09/
> msg00440.html
>
> This link contains a patch for qmail-smtpd to append messages with
> control/footer.

You don't really mean qmail-smtpd, do you?
~ml

glenn-qmail at delink

Oct 10, 2003, 11:18 AM

Post #16 of 27 (21396 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 01:21:32PM -0400, Russell Nelson wrote:
> Thomas Smith writes:
> > If one signs every email using a GPG key, then isn't it possible to
> > prevent such forgeries?
>
> Only if the recipient's MUA has GPG support.

And even then, only if a proper web of trust has been set up for all
members of the organization.

--
Brian T Glenn
delink.net Internet Services

tom at openadventures

Oct 10, 2003, 11:34 AM

Post #17 of 27 (21438 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

Mark Lundquist wrote:

>
> On Friday, October 10, 2003, at 10:45 AM, Thomas Smith wrote:
>
>>
>> I personally haven't found anyway for qmail to do this natively
>> (that is, without patching the qmail-smtpd). With that in mind,
>> check out the following link:
>>
>> http://www.ornl.gov/cts/archives/mailing-lists/qmail/2002/09/
>> msg00440.html
>>
>> This link contains a patch for qmail-smtpd to append messages with
>> control/footer.
>
>
> You don't really mean qmail-smtpd, do you?

My bad! ;-) I didn't look that closely at the patch--it's actually
patching qmail-remote.c--different file, same result.

payal-dated-1065789811.bfkfeacj at staticky

Oct 10, 2003, 12:52 PM

Post #18 of 27 (21458 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 10:12:05AM -0400, Russell Nelson wrote:
> Frank Marien writes:
> > And having to switch to Exchange or SunOne then having disclaimers
> > anyway doesn't?
>
> It's not that qmail can't -- it can add a footer. It's that nobody should.

Nobody said anything about adding a extra header at MTA level, like for
example X-Virus-Scan or X-Organisation-Name anything for that matter.
Is this safe? If yes, how should be attempting this for a simple
X-Organisation-Name like stuff.

With warm regards,
-Payal

--
GNU/Linux Success Stories | http://payal.staticky.com
To Unsubscribe | listname-unsubscribe[at]list.cr.yp.to
Sheep. There is no alternative.

qmail at discworld

Oct 12, 2003, 2:57 PM

Post #19 of 27 (21367 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

Payal Rathod <payal-dated-1065789811.bfkfeacj[at]staticky.com> wrote:
> >
> > It's not that qmail can't -- it can add a footer. It's that nobody should.
>
> Nobody said anything about adding a extra header at MTA level, like for
> example X-Virus-Scan or X-Organisation-Name anything for that matter.

Nope, nobody said anything about it. It's safer than trying to modify the
message body part(s).

Charles
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Cazabon <qmail[at]discworld.dyndns.org>
GPL'ed software available at: http://www.qcc.ca/~charlesc/software/
Read http://www.qcc.ca/~charlesc/writings/12-steps-to-qmail-list-bliss.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

payal-dated-1066026961.akecjaao at staticky

Oct 12, 2003, 11:39 PM

Post #20 of 27 (21390 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 03:57:26PM -0600, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> >
> > Nobody said anything about adding a extra header at MTA level, like for
> > example X-Virus-Scan or X-Organisation-Name anything for that matter.
>
> Nope, nobody said anything about it. It's safer than trying to modify the
> message body part(s).

Ok, can you point how do I go about it? My line of thinking is,
use qmail-queue patch and add it just like I would add a disclaimer, but
search for the first blank line in the message and put the header there,
and again put a blank line after it.
Is this the right approach?

With warm regards,
-Payal

--
GNU/Linux Success Stories | http://payal.staticky.com
To Unsubscribe | listname-unsubscribe[at]list.cr.yp.to
For NASA, space is still a high priority. - Dan Quayle

suhita at rpgnet

Oct 12, 2003, 11:52 PM

Post #21 of 27 (21397 views)
Permalink

RE: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

I am trying to apply the qmail patch but it is giving some HUNK error. I
have downloaded the qmailqueue-patch in the qmail source directory( I,e,
where the qmail was untarred). I am applying the command

"patch -p0 < qmailqueue-patch"

When it is asking for the input file I am giving "qmail-queue" . may be it
is sounding very silly but please help .

Suhita

-----Original Message-----
From: Payal Rathod [mailto:payal-dated-1066026961.akecjaao[at]staticky.com]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 12:09 PM
To: qmail[at]list.cr.yp.to
Subject: Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails

On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 03:57:26PM -0600, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> >
> > Nobody said anything about adding a extra header at MTA level, like for
> > example X-Virus-Scan or X-Organisation-Name anything for that matter.
>
> Nope, nobody said anything about it. It's safer than trying to modify the
> message body part(s).

Ok, can you point how do I go about it? My line of thinking is,
use qmail-queue patch and add it just like I would add a disclaimer, but
search for the first blank line in the message and put the header there,
and again put a blank line after it.
Is this the right approach?

With warm regards,
-Payal

--
GNU/Linux Success Stories | http://payal.staticky.com
To Unsubscribe | listname-unsubscribe[at]list.cr.yp.to
For NASA, space is still a high priority. - Dan Quayle

aho-djb-qmail at 03s

Oct 13, 2003, 12:25 AM

Post #22 of 27 (21388 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 12:09:21PM +0530, Payal Rathod wrote:
> Ok, can you point how do I go about it? My line of thinking is,
> use qmail-queue patch and add it just like I would add a disclaimer, but
> search for the first blank line in the message and put the header there,
> and again put a blank line after it.
> Is this the right approach?

Far better to output the new header(s) first, followed by the entire
contents of the original message, headers and all. No mess, no fuss,
no line-counting/searching required.

--
Adrian Ho Tinker, Drifter, Fixer, Bum aho-djb-qmail[at]03s.net
ListArchive: <http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=qmail>
Useful URLs: <http://cr.yp.to/qmail.html> <http://www.qmail.org>
<http://www.lifewithqmail.org/> <http://qmail.faqts.com/>

matthias.andree at gmx

Oct 13, 2003, 2:25 AM

Post #23 of 27 (21393 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Payal Rathod wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 03:57:26PM -0600, Charles Cazabon wrote:
> > >
> > > Nobody said anything about adding a extra header at MTA level, like for
> > > example X-Virus-Scan or X-Organisation-Name anything for that matter.
> >
> > Nope, nobody said anything about it. It's safer than trying to modify the
> > message body part(s).
>
> Ok, can you point how do I go about it? My line of thinking is,
> use qmail-queue patch and add it just like I would add a disclaimer, but
> search for the first blank line in the message and put the header there,
> and again put a blank line after it.
> Is this the right approach?

reformail (ships with maildrop) can add arbitrary headers - if you're
using shell scripts for scanning or something (I haven't looked at all
that stuff), then this is the way to go.

If your setup does not allow shell scripts, ignore this mail.

lweldon at welcoin

Oct 13, 2003, 3:43 AM

Post #24 of 27 (21396 views)
Permalink

RE: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

On Mon, 2003-10-13 at 02:52, Suhita Roy wrote:
> I am trying to apply the qmail patch but it is giving some HUNK error. I
> have downloaded the qmailqueue-patch in the qmail source directory( I,e,
> where the qmail was untarred). I am applying the command
>
> "patch -p0 < qmailqueue-patch"
>
> When it is asking for the input file I am giving "qmail-queue" . may be it
> is sounding very silly but please help .
>

When starting a new question it is generally expected that you *not* do
it by replying to a preexisting thread.

Please start a new thread for this question.

--
Larry Weldon <lweldon[at]welcoin.com>

payal-dated-1066026961.akecjaao at staticky

Oct 13, 2003, 8:19 AM

Post #25 of 27 (21395 views)
Permalink

Re: Adding footer in outgoing mails [In reply to]

On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 12:22:04PM +0530, Suhita Roy wrote:
> I am trying to apply the qmail patch but it is giving some HUNK error. I
> have downloaded the qmailqueue-patch in the qmail source directory( I,e,
> where the qmail was untarred). I am applying the command
>
> "patch -p0 < qmailqueue-patch"

How about using -p1 instead?

-Payal

--
"Visit GNU/Linux Success Stories"
http://payal.staticky.com
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