Mailing List Archive: Python: Dev

Re: supporting multiple versions of one package in one environment is insane

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chris at simplistix

Oct 9, 2009, 8:51 AM

Post #1 of 4 (465 views)
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Re: supporting multiple versions of one package in one environment is insane

Tarek ZiadĂŠ wrote:
> = Virtualenv and the multiple version support in Distribute =
>
> (I am not saying "We" here because this part was not discussed yet
> with everyone)

Good, so maybe take this discussion to distutils-sig first?

> Virtualenv allows you to create an isolated environment to install
> some distribution without polluting the
> main site-packages, a bit like a user site-packages.

...as does buildout, and these are the right type of solution to this
problem.

> My opinion is that this tool exists only because Python doesn't
> support the installation of multiple versions for the same
> distributions.

No, it exists because per-project specification of requirements is a
really good thing. Having multiple versions of the same package in the
same python environment it totally batshit crazy...

> Setuptools provided a multiple version support but I don't like its
> implementation and the way its works.

See the "crazy" comment above...

> - a special import system using importlib that would automatically
> pick the latest version, thanks to PEP 376.

As long as I never have to use it or see it, I don't really care, but
this seems like creating more work for yourself and another gun pointed
at the face, nevermind the foot, of the unwary newbie...

Chris

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- http://www.simplistix.co.uk
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a.badger at gmail

Oct 9, 2009, 9:22 AM

Post #2 of 4 (428 views)
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Re: supporting multiple versions of one package in one environment is insane [In reply to]

On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 04:51:00PM +0100, Chris Withers wrote:
> Tarek Ziadé wrote:
>> Virtualenv allows you to create an isolated environment to install
>> some distribution without polluting the
>> main site-packages, a bit like a user site-packages.
>
> ...as does buildout, and these are the right type of solution to this
> problem.
>
where type of problem == sandboxed environment, sure. How do you solve the
problem for system packagers?

-Toshio

chris at simplistix

Oct 9, 2009, 9:29 AM

Post #3 of 4 (426 views)
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Re: supporting multiple versions of one package in one environment is insane [In reply to]

Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 04:51:00PM +0100, Chris Withers wrote:
>> Tarek Ziadé wrote:
>>> Virtualenv allows you to create an isolated environment to install
>>> some distribution without polluting the
>>> main site-packages, a bit like a user site-packages.
>> ...as does buildout, and these are the right type of solution to this
>> problem.
>>
> where type of problem == sandboxed environment, sure. How do you solve the
> problem for system packagers?

What's to stop a system packager either just running the buildout on
install, or running the buildout at package build time and then just
dropping the resulting environment wherever they want to install
applications? Such a package would only be dependent on the right python
version at runtime...

cheers,

Chris

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- http://www.simplistix.co.uk
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a.badger at gmail

Oct 9, 2009, 12:20 PM

Post #4 of 4 (429 views)
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Re: supporting multiple versions of one package in one environment is insane [In reply to]

On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 05:29:28PM +0100, Chris Withers wrote:
> Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 04:51:00PM +0100, Chris Withers wrote:
>>> Tarek Ziadé wrote:
>>>> Virtualenv allows you to create an isolated environment to install
>>>> some distribution without polluting the
>>>> main site-packages, a bit like a user site-packages.
>>> ...as does buildout, and these are the right type of solution to
>>> this problem.
>>>
>> where type of problem == sandboxed environment, sure. How do you solve the
>> problem for system packagers?
>
> What's to stop a system packager either just running the buildout on
> install, or running the buildout at package build time and then just
> dropping the resulting environment wherever they want to install
> applications? Such a package would only be dependent on the right python
> version at runtime...
>
If buildout creates sandboxed environments like virtualenv then everything
here applies:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:No_Bundled_Libraries

You can also listen/watch the talk I gave at PyCon which is linked from that
page:
http://pycon.blip.tv/file/2072580/

If it doesn't create sandboxed environments, then you'll need to give me
about a paragraph explaining what it does do.

-Toshio

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