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rdmurray at bitdance

Sep 17, 2009, 10:14 AM

Post #1 of 22 (1610 views)
Permalink

Misc/maintainers.rst

I floated a proposal on stdlib-sig to create a file named
Misc/maintainers.rst. The purpose of this file is to collect knowledge
about who knows which modules well enough to make decision about issues
in the tracker when the participants in the issue aren't sure, and to
write down the community knowledge about who has special interest and
expertise in specific topic areas.

This proposal was met with approval and, after a couple of small
modifications of the proposal, no dissent; so I've created the skeleton
of the file. I've filled in some of the blanks where I had personal
knowledge, was told info on IRC, from the two referenced PEPs, and
from PEP 11.

Feel free to respond with comments about the header text, but more
importantly let me know what you know about who (especially if it is you)
should be listed for each module, platform, and topic, and feel free to
suggest additional topics. My goal is to record the community knowledge.

Another topic of discussion that is orthogonal to filling in the table is
whether or not to publish it outside the repository. Jesse would like to
see it included in the Python Documentation, and Georg has suggested the
possibility of creating a separate, sphinx-based, automatically-uploaded
document collection in the repository to contain this and related
information (Misc/devdocs?).

The module list was built from the py3k documentation module index, with
the addition of 'pybench' from PEP 291. If there are other modules/tools
that are missing, or submodules that should be broken out into
separate lines, please let me know.

After the initial flurry of updates and comments dies down I will check
this in.

--David

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maintainers Index
=================

This document cross references Python Modules (first table) and platforms
(second table) with the Tracker user names of people who are experts
and/or resources for that module or platform. This list is intended
to be used by issue submitters, issue triage people, and other issue
participants to find people to add to the nosy list or to contact
directly by email for help and decisions on feature requests and bug
fixes. People on this list may be asked to render final judgement on a
feature or bug. If no active maintainer is listed for a given module,
then questionable changes should go to python-dev, while any other issues
can and should be decided by any committer.

The last part of this document is a third table, listing broader topic
areas in which various people have expertise. These people can also
be contacted for help, opinions, and decisions when issues involve
their areas.

If a listed maintainer does not respond to requests for comment for an
extended period (three weeks or more), they should be marked as inactive
in this list by placing the word 'inactive' in parenthesis behind their
tracker id. They are of course free to remove that inactive mark at
any time.

Committers should update this table as their areas of expertise widen.
New topics may be added to the third table at will.

The existence of this list is not meant to indicate that these people
*must* be contacted for decisions; it is, rather, a resource to be used
by non-committers to find responsible parties, and by committers who do
not feel qualified to make a decision in a particular context.

See also `PEP 291`_ and `PEP 360`_ for information about certain modules
with special rules.

.. _`PEP 291`: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0291/
.. _`PEP 360`: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0360/

================== ===========
Module Maintainers
================== ===========
__future__
__main__ gvanrossum
_dummy_thread brett.cannon
_thread
abc
aifc r.david.murray
array
ast
asynchat josiahcarlson
asyncore josiahcarlson
atexit
audioop
base64
bdb
binascii
binhex
bisect
builtins
bz2
calendar
cgi
cgitb
chunk
cmath
cmd
code
codecs
codeop
collections
colorsys
compileall
configparser
contextlib
copy
copyreg
cProfile
crypt
csv
ctypes theller
curses
datetime
dbm
decimal
difflib
dis
distutils tarek
doctest
dummy_threading brett.cannon
email barry
encodings
errno
exceptions
fcntl
filecmp
fileinput
fnmatch
formatter
fpectl
fractions
ftplib
functools
gc
getopt
getpass
gettext
glob
grp
gzip
hashlib
heapq
hmac
html
http
imaplib
imghdr
imp
importlib brett.cannon
inspect
io pitrou, benjamin.peterson
itertools
json
keyword
lib2to3 benjamin.peterson
linecache
locale
logging vsajip
macpath
mailbox
mailcap
marshal
math
mimetypes
mmap
modulefinder theller, jvr
msilib
msvcrt
multiprocessing jnoller
netrc
nis
nntplib
numbers
operator
optparse aronacher
os
ossaudiodev
parser
pdb
pickle
pickletools
pipes
pkgutil
platform lemburg
plistlib
poplib
posix
pprint
pstats
pty
pwd
py_compile
pybench lemburg
pyclbr
pydoc
queue
quopri
random
re
readline
reprlib
resource
rlcompleter
runpy
sched
select
shelve
shlex
shutil
signal
site
smtpd
smtplib
sndhdr
socket
socketserver
spwd
sqlite3
ssl
stat
string
stringprep
struct
subprocess astrand (inactive)
sunau
symbol
symtable
sys
syslog
tabnanny
tarfile
telnetlib
tempfile
termios
test
textwrap
threading
time
timeit
tkinter gpolo
token
tokenize
trace
traceback
tty
turtle gregorlingl
types
unicodedata
unittest michael.foord
urllib
uu
uuid
warnings
wave
weakref
webbrowser georg.brandl
winreg
winsound
wsgiref pje
xdrlib
xml loewis
xml.etree effbot (inactive)
xmlrpc loewis
zipfile
zipimport
zlib
================== ===========

================== ===========
Platform Maintainer
------------------ -----------
AIX
Cygwin jlt63
FreeBSD
Linux
Mac ronaldoussoren
NetBSD1
OS2/EMX aimacintyre
Solaris
HP-UX
================== ===========

================== ===========
Interest Area Maintainers
------------------ -----------
algorithms
ast/compiler
autoconf
bsd
buildbots
data formats
database
documentation georg.brandl
GUI
i18n
import machinery brett.cannon
io pitrou, benjamin.peterson
locale
makefiles
mathematics marketdickinson, eric.smith
memory management
networking
packaging
release management
time and dates
testing michael.foord
threads
unicode
windows
================== ===========
_______________________________________________
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Python-Dev [at] python
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
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g.brandl at gmx

Sep 17, 2009, 10:38 AM

Post #2 of 22 (1552 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

R. David Murray schrieb:
> I floated a proposal on stdlib-sig to create a file named
> Misc/maintainers.rst. The purpose of this file is to collect knowledge
> about who knows which modules well enough to make decision about issues
> in the tracker when the participants in the issue aren't sure, and to
> write down the community knowledge about who has special interest and
> expertise in specific topic areas.
>
> This proposal was met with approval and, after a couple of small
> modifications of the proposal, no dissent; so I've created the skeleton
> of the file. I've filled in some of the blanks where I had personal
> knowledge, was told info on IRC, from the two referenced PEPs, and
> from PEP 11.
>
> Feel free to respond with comments about the header text, but more
> importantly let me know what you know about who (especially if it is you)
> should be listed for each module, platform, and topic, and feel free to
> suggest additional topics. My goal is to record the community knowledge.

One thing I'd like to see in the list are real names of committers,
not tracker names. Of course, people looking for people to assign a bug
to should not have to search for the tracker name, so I'd like to make
another request (that Brett already made when we switched trackers):

Could we *please* have tracker names that match the committer names?

(This doesn't even need to be done by the individual users, I would
volunteer to rename all committer accounts and notify them by email that
their name changed. This will also be coordinated with the new names
used for Mercurial commits, if a change will be made.)

> Another topic of discussion that is orthogonal to filling in the table is
> whether or not to publish it outside the repository. Jesse would like to
> see it included in the Python Documentation, and Georg has suggested the
> possibility of creating a separate, sphinx-based, automatically-uploaded
> document collection in the repository to contain this and related
> information (Misc/devdocs?).

For those who aren't on stdlib-sig, I'd like to elaborate a bit on that:
There are quite a few resources for and about Python core development,
but they aren't very accessible. For example, there's Misc/developers.txt
and the upcoming maintainers.txt. Then there's the dev FAQ, but it's not
maintained where developers usually look, but on the website. Etc.
So the plan would be to consolidate these into another set of rst docs,
having them in the repo, editable by every committer, as well as published
somewhere on python.org (devdocs.python.org or somesuch).

cheers,
Georg

--
Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less.
Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy
indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou
two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out.

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brett at python

Sep 17, 2009, 10:56 AM

Post #3 of 22 (1561 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:38, Georg Brandl <g.brandl [at] gmx> wrote:
> R. David Murray schrieb:
>> I floated a proposal on stdlib-sig to create a file named
>> Misc/maintainers.rst. The purpose of this file is to collect knowledge
>> about who knows which modules well enough to make decision about issues
>> in the tracker when the participants in the issue aren't sure, and to
>> write down the community knowledge about who has special interest and
>> expertise in specific topic areas.
>>
>> This proposal was met with approval and, after a couple of small
>> modifications of the proposal, no dissent; so I've created the skeleton
>> of the file. I've filled in some of the blanks where I had personal
>> knowledge, was told info on IRC, from the two referenced PEPs, and
>> from PEP 11.
>>
>> Feel free to respond with comments about the header text, but more
>> importantly let me know what you know about who (especially if it is you)
>> should be listed for each module, platform, and topic, and feel free to
>> suggest additional topics. My goal is to record the community knowledge.
>
> One thing I'd like to see in the list are real names of committers,
> not tracker names. Of course, people looking for people to assign a bug
> to should not have to search for the tracker name, so I'd like to make
> another request (that Brett already made when we switched trackers):
>
> Could we *please* have tracker names that match the committer names?
>
> (This doesn't even need to be done by the individual users, I would
> volunteer to rename all committer accounts and notify them by email that
> their name changed. This will also be coordinated with the new names
> used for Mercurial commits, if a change will be made.)
>
>> Another topic of discussion that is orthogonal to filling in the table is
>> whether or not to publish it outside the repository. Jesse would like to
>> see it included in the Python Documentation, and Georg has suggested the
>> possibility of creating a separate, sphinx-based, automatically-uploaded
>> document collection in the repository to contain this and related
>> information (Misc/devdocs?).
>
> For those who aren't on stdlib-sig, I'd like to elaborate a bit on that:
> There are quite a few resources for and about Python core development,
> but they aren't very accessible. For example, there's Misc/developers.txt
> and the upcoming maintainers.txt. Then there's the dev FAQ, but it's not
> maintained where developers usually look, but on the website. Etc.
> So the plan would be to consolidate these into another set of rst docs,
> having them in the repo, editable by every committer, as well as published
> somewhere on python.org (devdocs.python.org or somesuch).

dev.python.org would be nice to have, from which we can simply
redirect www.python.org/dev/ to dev.python.org. www.python.org/dev/
can then get cleaned up be made simpler to navigate and more obvious
for how people can get started.

-Brett
_______________________________________________
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brett at python

Sep 17, 2009, 10:57 AM

Post #4 of 22 (1549 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

Looks great to me! Only thing missing that I can think of is sticking
Eric down as the guy who does str.format(). =)

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:14, R. David Murray <rdmurray [at] bitdance> wrote:
> I floated a proposal on stdlib-sig to create a file named
> Misc/maintainers.rst. The purpose of this file is to collect knowledge
> about who knows which modules well enough to make decision about issues
> in the tracker when the participants in the issue aren't sure, and to
> write down the community knowledge about who has special interest and
> expertise in specific topic areas.
>
> This proposal was met with approval and, after a couple of small
> modifications of the proposal, no dissent; so I've created the skeleton
> of the file. I've filled in some of the blanks where I had personal
> knowledge, was told info on IRC, from the two referenced PEPs, and
> from PEP 11.
>
> Feel free to respond with comments about the header text, but more
> importantly let me know what you know about who (especially if it is you)
> should be listed for each module, platform, and topic, and feel free to
> suggest additional topics. My goal is to record the community knowledge.
>
> Another topic of discussion that is orthogonal to filling in the table is
> whether or not to publish it outside the repository. Jesse would like to
> see it included in the Python Documentation, and Georg has suggested the
> possibility of creating a separate, sphinx-based, automatically-uploaded
> document collection in the repository to contain this and related
> information (Misc/devdocs?).
>
> The module list was built from the py3k documentation module index, with
> the addition of 'pybench' from PEP 291. If there are other modules/tools
> that are missing, or submodules that should be broken out into
> separate lines, please let me know.
>
> After the initial flurry of updates and comments dies down I will check
> this in.
>
> --David
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Maintainers Index
> =================
>
> This document cross references Python Modules (first table) and platforms
> (second table) with the Tracker user names of people who are experts
> and/or resources for that module or platform. This list is intended
> to be used by issue submitters, issue triage people, and other issue
> participants to find people to add to the nosy list or to contact
> directly by email for help and decisions on feature requests and bug
> fixes. People on this list may be asked to render final judgement on a
> feature or bug. If no active maintainer is listed for a given module,
> then questionable changes should go to python-dev, while any other issues
> can and should be decided by any committer.
>
> The last part of this document is a third table, listing broader topic
> areas in which various people have expertise. These people can also
> be contacted for help, opinions, and decisions when issues involve
> their areas.
>
> If a listed maintainer does not respond to requests for comment for an
> extended period (three weeks or more), they should be marked as inactive
> in this list by placing the word 'inactive' in parenthesis behind their
> tracker id. They are of course free to remove that inactive mark at
> any time.
>
> Committers should update this table as their areas of expertise widen.
> New topics may be added to the third table at will.
>
> The existence of this list is not meant to indicate that these people
> *must* be contacted for decisions; it is, rather, a resource to be used
> by non-committers to find responsible parties, and by committers who do
> not feel qualified to make a decision in a particular context.
>
> See also `PEP 291`_ and `PEP 360`_ for information about certain modules
> with special rules.
>
> .. _`PEP 291`: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0291/
> .. _`PEP 360`: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0360/
>
>
> ================== ===========
> Module Maintainers
> ================== ===========
> __future__
> __main__ gvanrossum
> _dummy_thread brett.cannon
> _thread
> abc
> aifc r.david.murray
> array
> ast
> asynchat josiahcarlson
> asyncore josiahcarlson
> atexit
> audioop
> base64
> bdb
> binascii
> binhex
> bisect
> builtins
> bz2
> calendar
> cgi
> cgitb
> chunk
> cmath
> cmd
> code
> codecs
> codeop
> collections
> colorsys
> compileall
> configparser
> contextlib
> copy
> copyreg
> cProfile
> crypt
> csv
> ctypes theller
> curses
> datetime
> dbm
> decimal
> difflib
> dis
> distutils tarek
> doctest
> dummy_threading brett.cannon
> email barry
> encodings
> errno
> exceptions
> fcntl
> filecmp
> fileinput
> fnmatch
> formatter
> fpectl
> fractions
> ftplib
> functools
> gc
> getopt
> getpass
> gettext
> glob
> grp
> gzip
> hashlib
> heapq
> hmac
> html
> http
> imaplib
> imghdr
> imp
> importlib brett.cannon
> inspect
> io pitrou, benjamin.peterson
> itertools
> json
> keyword
> lib2to3 benjamin.peterson
> linecache
> locale
> logging vsajip
> macpath
> mailbox
> mailcap
> marshal
> math
> mimetypes
> mmap
> modulefinder theller, jvr
> msilib
> msvcrt
> multiprocessing jnoller
> netrc
> nis
> nntplib
> numbers
> operator
> optparse aronacher
> os
> ossaudiodev
> parser
> pdb
> pickle
> pickletools
> pipes
> pkgutil
> platform lemburg
> plistlib
> poplib
> posix
> pprint
> pstats
> pty
> pwd
> py_compile
> pybench lemburg
> pyclbr
> pydoc
> queue
> quopri
> random
> re
> readline
> reprlib
> resource
> rlcompleter
> runpy
> sched
> select
> shelve
> shlex
> shutil
> signal
> site
> smtpd
> smtplib
> sndhdr
> socket
> socketserver
> spwd
> sqlite3
> ssl
> stat
> string
> stringprep
> struct
> subprocess astrand (inactive)
> sunau
> symbol
> symtable
> sys
> syslog
> tabnanny
> tarfile
> telnetlib
> tempfile
> termios
> test
> textwrap
> threading
> time
> timeit
> tkinter gpolo
> token
> tokenize
> trace
> traceback
> tty
> turtle gregorlingl
> types
> unicodedata
> unittest michael.foord
> urllib
> uu
> uuid
> warnings
> wave
> weakref
> webbrowser georg.brandl
> winreg
> winsound
> wsgiref pje
> xdrlib
> xml loewis
> xml.etree effbot (inactive)
> xmlrpc loewis
> zipfile
> zipimport
> zlib
> ================== ===========
>
>
> ================== ===========
> Platform Maintainer
> ------------------ -----------
> AIX
> Cygwin jlt63
> FreeBSD
> Linux
> Mac ronaldoussoren
> NetBSD1
> OS2/EMX aimacintyre
> Solaris
> HP-UX
> ================== ===========
>
>
> ================== ===========
> Interest Area Maintainers
> ------------------ -----------
> algorithms
> ast/compiler
> autoconf
> bsd
> buildbots
> data formats
> database
> documentation georg.brandl
> GUI
> i18n
> import machinery brett.cannon
> io pitrou, benjamin.peterson
> locale
> makefiles
> mathematics marketdickinson, eric.smith
> memory management
> networking
> packaging release management
> time and dates
> testing michael.foord
> threads
> unicode windows
> ================== ===========
> _______________________________________________
> Python-Dev mailing list
> Python-Dev [at] python
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/brett%40python.org
>
_______________________________________________
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brett at python

Sep 17, 2009, 10:59 AM

Post #5 of 22 (1564 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

rdmurray at bitdance

Sep 17, 2009, 11:08 AM

Post #6 of 22 (1554 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 10:59, Brett Cannon wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:38, Georg Brandl <g.brandl [at] gmx> wrote:
>> Could we *please* have tracker names that match the committer names?
>>
>> (This doesn't even need to be done by the individual users, I would
>> volunteer to rename all committer accounts and notify them by email that
>> their name changed. This will also be coordinated with the new names
>> used for Mercurial commits, if a change will be made.)
>
> +1 from me. It would be nice to not have to look up what tracker name
> someone uses since I know everyone's committer name.

+1 from me as well. And speaking of names, people should feel free to
email me maintainer info for the table as real names. Whether or
not Georg's proposal goes through I'll make the table reflect the
correct tracker ids.

--David

fdrake at acm

Sep 17, 2009, 11:19 AM

Post #7 of 22 (1556 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:38, Georg Brandl <g.brandl [at] gmx> wrote:
> So the plan would be to consolidate these into another set of rst
> docs,
> having them in the repo, editable by every committer, as well as
> published
> somewhere on python.org (devdocs.python.org or somesuch).

On Sep 17, 2009, at 1:56 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
> dev.python.org would be nice to have, from which we can simply
> redirect www.python.org/dev/ to dev.python.org. www.python.org/dev/
> can then get cleaned up be made simpler to navigate and more obvious
> for how people can get started.

Many years ago, we decided to add docs.python.org with the "current"
version of the documentation, so people would be able to find the docs
more easily. Since then, we've had problems with keeping
docs.python.org and www.python.org/doc/ in sync, and with different
styles being applied to the sites.

One of the reasons www.python.org/doc/ was considered less
discoverable was the about of only-sometimes-interesting information
there; docs.python.org contains only "current" docs (for some vague
notion of current and only, given that dev builds and both Python 2
and Python 3 versions). Some claimed that having "docs" at the front
of the URL helped, though I don't recall why.

I don't know whether users consider the docs more discoverable than
they used to; if anyone can provide information about that (now sure
what indicator would make even sense), that might be informative.

The overload problem is one we *don't* have for developer
documentation; the difficulty is in discovering what exists at all.

+1 on moving the developer docs to subversion

+0 on exposing them online

-0 on adding another domain name

-Fred

--
Fred Drake <fdrake at pobox.com>

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rdmurray at bitdance

Sep 17, 2009, 11:35 AM

Post #8 of 22 (1553 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 10:57, Brett Cannon wrote:
> Looks great to me! Only thing missing that I can think of is sticking
> Eric down as the guy who does str.format(). =)

OK, I've added that one to the last table ;)

--David
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rdmurray at bitdance

Sep 17, 2009, 11:40 AM

Post #9 of 22 (1560 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 14:08, R. David Murray wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 10:59, Brett Cannon wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:38, Georg Brandl <g.brandl [at] gmx> wrote:
>> > Could we *please* have tracker names that match the committer names?
>> >
>> > (This doesn't even need to be done by the individual users, I would
>> > volunteer to rename all committer accounts and notify them by email that
>> > their name changed. This will also be coordinated with the new names
>> > used for Mercurial commits, if a change will be made.)
>>
>> +1 from me. It would be nice to not have to look up what tracker name
>> someone uses since I know everyone's committer name.
>
> +1 from me as well. And speaking of names, people should feel free to
> email me maintainer info for the table as real names. Whether or
> not Georg's proposal goes through I'll make the table reflect the
> correct tracker ids.

By the way, in case anyone isn't aware of it (Mark Dickinson and I weren't
initially), it is _really easy_ to change your tracker id if you want to
do it yourself. Just go in 'your details' and change your login name.
It'll change everywhere in the tracker, since roundup tracks accounts
by an internal number, not the login name.

--David

eric at trueblade

Sep 17, 2009, 11:43 AM

Post #10 of 22 (1552 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

R. David Murray wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 10:57, Brett Cannon wrote:
>> Looks great to me! Only thing missing that I can think of is sticking
>> Eric down as the guy who does str.format(). =)
>
> OK, I've added that one to the last table ;)

Awesome! I get to spend even more time on formatting strings!

I kid. I'm happy to be the string formatting maintainer.

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amk at amk

Sep 17, 2009, 11:44 AM

Post #11 of 22 (1558 views)
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Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 07:38:50PM +0200, Georg Brandl wrote:
> So the plan would be to consolidate these into another set of rst docs,
> having them in the repo, editable by every committer, as well as published
> somewhere on python.org (devdocs.python.org or somesuch).

+1.

Should we do something similar with the FAQs at
http://www.python.org/doc/faq/ ?

--amk
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p.f.moore at gmail

Sep 17, 2009, 12:11 PM

Post #12 of 22 (1553 views)
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Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

2009/9/17 R. David Murray <rdmurray [at] bitdance>:
> Feel free to respond with comments about the header text, but more
> importantly let me know what you know about who (especially if it is you)
> should be listed for each module, platform, and topic, and feel free to
> suggest additional topics. �My goal is to record the community knowledge.

A couple more:

runpy - Nick Coghlan
itertools, collections - Raymond Hettinger

(obviously, if I've misrepresented their interest, they should speak up!)

Paul.
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jnoller at gmail

Sep 17, 2009, 12:40 PM

Post #13 of 22 (1553 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Georg Brandl <g.brandl [at] gmx> wrote:
> R. David Murray schrieb:
>> I floated a proposal on stdlib-sig to create a file named
>> Misc/maintainers.rst. �The purpose of this file is to collect knowledge
>> about who knows which modules well enough to make decision about issues
>> in the tracker when the participants in the issue aren't sure, and to
>> write down the community knowledge about who has special interest and
>> expertise in specific topic areas.
>>
>> This proposal was met with approval and, after a couple of small
>> modifications of the proposal, no dissent; so I've created the skeleton
>> of the file. �I've filled in some of the blanks where I had personal
>> knowledge, was told info on IRC, from the two referenced PEPs, and
>> from PEP 11.
>>
>> Feel free to respond with comments about the header text, but more
>> importantly let me know what you know about who (especially if it is you)
>> should be listed for each module, platform, and topic, and feel free to
>> suggest additional topics. �My goal is to record the community knowledge.
>
> One thing I'd like to see in the list are real names of committers,
> not tracker names. �Of course, people looking for people to assign a bug
> to should not have to search for the tracker name, so I'd like to make
> another request (that Brett already made when we switched trackers):
>
> �Could we *please* have tracker names that match the committer names?
>
> (This doesn't even need to be done by the individual users, I would
> volunteer to rename all committer accounts and notify them by email that
> their name changed. �This will also be coordinated with the new names
> used for Mercurial commits, if a change will be made.)
>
>> Another topic of discussion that is orthogonal to filling in the table is
>> whether or not to publish it outside the repository. �Jesse would like to
>> see it included in the Python Documentation, and Georg has suggested the
>> possibility of creating a separate, sphinx-based, automatically-uploaded
>> document collection in the repository to contain this and related
>> information (Misc/devdocs?).
>
> For those who aren't on stdlib-sig, I'd like to elaborate a bit on that:
> There are quite a few resources for and about Python core development,
> but they aren't very accessible. �For example, there's Misc/developers.txt
> and the upcoming maintainers.txt. �Then there's the dev FAQ, but it's not
> maintained where developers usually look, but on the website. �Etc.
> So the plan would be to consolidate these into another set of rst docs,
> having them in the repo, editable by every committer, as well as published
> somewhere on python.org (devdocs.python.org or somesuch).
>
> cheers,
> Georg
>

+1 to getting them in The One True Format (ReST) and up and online,
and then porting all the dev docs into The One True Format.
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python at rcn

Sep 17, 2009, 1:13 PM

Post #14 of 22 (1553 views)
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Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

On Sep 17, 2009, at 10:59 AM, Brett Cannon wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:38, Georg Brandl <g.brandl [at] gmx> wrote:
>> R. David Murray schrieb:
>>> I floated a proposal on stdlib-sig to create a file named
>>> Misc/maintainers.rst. The purpose of this file is to collect
>>> knowledge
>>> about who knows which modules well enough to make decision about
>>> issues
>>> in the tracker when the participants in the issue aren't sure, and
>>> to
>>> write down the community knowledge about who has special interest
>>> and
>>> expertise in specific topic areas.
>>>
>>> This proposal was met with approval and, after a couple of small
>>> modifications of the proposal, no dissent; so I've created the
>>> skeleton
>>> of the file. I've filled in some of the blanks where I had personal
>>> knowledge, was told info on IRC, from the two referenced PEPs, and
>>> from PEP 11.
>>>
>>> Feel free to respond with comments about the header text, but more
>>> importantly let me know what you know about who (especially if it
>>> is you)
>>> should be listed for each module, platform, and topic, and feel
>>> free to
>>> suggest additional topics. My goal is to record the community
>>> knowledge.
>>
>> One thing I'd like to see in the list are real names of committers,
>> not tracker names. Of course, people looking for people to assign
>> a bug
>> to should not have to search for the tracker name, so I'd like to
>> make
>> another request (that Brett already made when we switched trackers):
>>
>> Could we *please* have tracker names that match the committer names?
>>
>> (This doesn't even need to be done by the individual users, I would
>> volunteer to rename all committer accounts and notify them by email
>> that
>> their name changed. This will also be coordinated with the new names
>> used for Mercurial commits, if a change will be made.)
>
> +1 from me. It would be nice to not have to look up what tracker name
> someone uses since I know everyone's committer name.
>

+1 from me also. This has long been a source of irritation.

Raymond
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g.brandl at gmx

Sep 17, 2009, 2:32 PM

Post #15 of 22 (1551 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

A.M. Kuchling schrieb:
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 07:38:50PM +0200, Georg Brandl wrote:
>> So the plan would be to consolidate these into another set of rst docs,
>> having them in the repo, editable by every committer, as well as published
>> somewhere on python.org (devdocs.python.org or somesuch).
>
> +1.
>
> Should we do something similar with the FAQs at
> http://www.python.org/doc/faq/ ?

They would then go into the main docs, I guess?

OK, so there seems to be some consensus on both the committer name and the
dev docs proposal. I'll start working on both by the end of next week,
when I have more contiguous time to spare.

Georg

--
Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less.
Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy
indenting shall be four. Eight shalt thou not indent, nor either indent thou
two, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Tabs are right out.

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ncoghlan at gmail

Sep 17, 2009, 2:58 PM

Post #16 of 22 (1547 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

Paul Moore wrote:
> runpy - Nick Coghlan

And for the general interest table, the import system and the AST
compiler are the two main areas that I know better than most.

Cheers,
Nick.

--
Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan [at] gmail | Brisbane, Australia
---------------------------------------------------------------
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amk at amk

Sep 17, 2009, 4:26 PM

Post #17 of 22 (1546 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:32:25PM +0200, Georg Brandl wrote:
> > Should we do something similar with the FAQs at
> > http://www.python.org/doc/faq/ ?
>
> They would then go into the main docs, I guess?

That would make sense. However, we already have seven different FAQs
there, so I don't think they should all be added as peers of the
Tutorial, Library Reference, etc. Maybe there should be a single
'FAQ' document, with the existing faqs as subsections.

Another option might be to put them on an entirely new site such as
faq.python.org, and then configure www.python.org/doc/faq/ to proxy
for it.

Should I look at implementing the python.org as an output style for
Sphinx?

--amk

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rdmurray at bitdance

Sep 17, 2009, 4:27 PM

Post #18 of 22 (1545 views)
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Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 at 14:19, Fred Drake wrote:
> One of the reasons www.python.org/doc/ was considered less discoverable was
> the about of only-sometimes-interesting information there; docs.python.org
> contains only "current" docs (for some vague notion of current and only,
> given that dev builds and both Python 2 and Python 3 versions). Some claimed
> that having "docs" at the front of the URL helped, though I don't recall why.

It's anecdotal, but I can tell you that currently I often type
'http://dev.python.org', get a not found, smack my head, and retype
the url. I don't have that problem with docs, obviously :)

--David
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jnoller at gmail

Sep 17, 2009, 6:13 PM

Post #19 of 22 (1538 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 7:26 PM, A.M. Kuchling <amk [at] amk> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:32:25PM +0200, Georg Brandl wrote:
>> > Should we do something similar with the FAQs at
>> > http://www.python.org/doc/faq/ ?
>>
>> They would then go into the main docs, I guess?
>
> That would make sense. �However, we already have seven different FAQs
> there, so I don't think they should all be added as peers of the
> Tutorial, Library Reference, etc. �Maybe there should be a single
> 'FAQ' document, with the existing faqs as subsections.
>
> Another option might be to put them on an entirely new site such as
> faq.python.org, and then configure www.python.org/doc/faq/ to proxy
> for it.
>
> Should I look at implementing the python.org as an output style for
> Sphinx?
>
> --amk
>

I'm definitely pro dev.python.org or python.org/dev
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ncoghlan at gmail

Sep 18, 2009, 2:11 AM

Post #20 of 22 (1531 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

Fred Drake wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:38, Georg Brandl <g.brandl [at] gmx> wrote:
>> So the plan would be to consolidate these into another set of rst docs,
>> having them in the repo, editable by every committer, as well as
>> published
>> somewhere on python.org (devdocs.python.org or somesuch).
>
> On Sep 17, 2009, at 1:56 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
>> dev.python.org would be nice to have, from which we can simply
>> redirect www.python.org/dev/ to dev.python.org. www.python.org/dev/
>> can then get cleaned up be made simpler to navigate and more obvious
>> for how people can get started.
>
> Many years ago, we decided to add docs.python.org with the "current"
> version of the documentation, so people would be able to find the docs
> more easily. Since then, we've had problems with keeping
> docs.python.org and www.python.org/doc/ in sync, and with different
> styles being applied to the sites.

We can avoid that problem by having the URLs just be alternative names
for the same thing (as Brett suggested), rather than having them be
actually different sites (as is the case for docs.python.org and
www.python.org/doc).

Cheers,
Nick.

--
Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan [at] gmail | Brisbane, Australia
---------------------------------------------------------------
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martin at v

Sep 27, 2009, 12:08 AM

Post #21 of 22 (1295 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

> One thing I'd like to see in the list are real names of committers,
> not tracker names. Of course, people looking for people to assign a bug
> to should not have to search for the tracker name, so I'd like to make
> another request (that Brett already made when we switched trackers):
>
> Could we *please* have tracker names that match the committer names?

I'm opposed. I never type my committer name - I don't even know what it
is (martin.v.loewis, martin.vonloewis, martin.von.loewis, something
else?). In the tracker, I have to type my account name, so I need to
remember. I have been using "loewis" as my account name in the net for
nearly two decades now, so I have little interest in starting to have
different account names, now.

> (This doesn't even need to be done by the individual users, I would
> volunteer to rename all committer accounts and notify them by email that
> their name changed. This will also be coordinated with the new names
> used for Mercurial commits, if a change will be made.)

IIUC, there will be relatively little control over Mercurial committer
names. Every user will have to configure ~/.hgrc, which should list a
single name/email address pair, to be used for all Mercurial
repositories. So I put "Martin v. L�wis <martin [at] v>" into
.hgrc, which is my name and my email address. It's not the same as the
tracker name or the subversion committer name; it can't possibly be
(since it comes from an entirely different namespace).

Regards,
Martin
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ncoghlan at gmail

Sep 27, 2009, 12:39 AM

Post #22 of 22 (1292 views)
Permalink

Re: Misc/maintainers.rst [In reply to]

Martin v. L�wis wrote:
>> One thing I'd like to see in the list are real names of committers,
>> not tracker names. Of course, people looking for people to assign a bug
>> to should not have to search for the tracker name, so I'd like to make
>> another request (that Brett already made when we switched trackers):
>>
>> Could we *please* have tracker names that match the committer names?
>
> I'm opposed. I never type my committer name - I don't even know what it
> is (martin.v.loewis, martin.vonloewis, martin.von.loewis, something
> else?). In the tracker, I have to type my account name, so I need to
> remember. I have been using "loewis" as my account name in the net for
> nearly two decades now, so I have little interest in starting to have
> different account names, now.

Same - my tracker is my normal online account name (ncoghlan), while my
committer name is my full name (nick.coghlan).

Having roundup store an extra field with committer names (and letting
people see both names in the user lists on the tracker) seems like a
better option than asking us to change our account names.

Cheers,
Nick.

--
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---------------------------------------------------------------
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