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Unicode 5.1.0

 

 

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guido at python

Aug 25, 2008, 10:56 AM

Post #26 of 33 (1950 views)
Permalink
Re: Unicode 5.1.0 [In reply to]

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Benjamin Peterson
<musiccomposition [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Barry Warsaw <barry [at] python> wrote:
>> On Aug 21, 2008, at 6:30 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode5.1.0/
>>> "Unicode 5.1.0 contains over 100,000 characters, and provides significant
>>> additions and improvements..." to existing features, including new files and
>>> upgrades to existing files. Sounds close to adding features ;-)
>>
>> I agree. This seriously feels like new, potentially high risk code to be
>> adding this late in the game. The BDFL can always override, but unless
>> someone is really convincing that this is low risk high benefit, I'd vote no
>> for 2.6/3.0.
>
> +1
>
> Something I think we should also be considering is the 2.7/3.1 release
> cycle. I propose that we shorten it to ~1 year from 2.6/3.0's release
> with our main aim being binding 2.x and 3.x more closely. This would
> get the new unicode features out fairly quickly without having to wait
> another 2.5 years like 2.5 -> 2.6.

I was never proposing to support any new features in 2.6/3.0. I was
only proposing to update the data files that we already support to the
versions provided by 5.1.0. Those data files should have the same
format, just slightly improved content: some new characters, some
corrected properties. Fredrik says it best:

> at least two Unicode experts have stated that they don't think the changes
> are that important. determining exactly what the changes to the *core*
> character database was the whole point of my offer to tinker with this.
>
> (I got distracted due to compiler issues and certain other things to be
> announced later, but I expect to have some results later this week).

--
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
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mal at egenix

Aug 25, 2008, 11:15 AM

Post #27 of 33 (1976 views)
Permalink
Re: Unicode 5.1.0 [In reply to]

On 2008-08-25 19:34, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Aug 21, 2008, at 6:30 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>
>> http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode5.1.0/
>> "Unicode 5.1.0 contains over 100,000 characters, and provides
>> significant additions and improvements..." to existing features,
>> including new files and upgrades to existing files. Sounds close to
>> adding features ;-)
>
> I agree. This seriously feels like new, potentially high risk code to
> be adding this late in the game. The BDFL can always override, but
> unless someone is really convincing that this is low risk high benefit,
> I'd vote no for 2.6/3.0.

The above quote from the Unicode site is misleading in this context.

Guido's request was just for updating the Unicode database with
the data from 5.1 - without adding new support for properties or
changing the interfaces.

See this page for a list of changes to the Unicode database:

http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UCD.html

The main file used for the unicodedata module is called "UnicodeData.txt".

--
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Aug 25 2008)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

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brett at python

Aug 25, 2008, 11:16 AM

Post #28 of 33 (1955 views)
Permalink
Re: Unicode 5.1.0 [In reply to]

On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Guido van Rossum <guido [at] python> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Benjamin Peterson
> <musiccomposition [at] gmail> wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Barry Warsaw <barry [at] python> wrote:
>>> On Aug 21, 2008, at 6:30 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode5.1.0/
>>>> "Unicode 5.1.0 contains over 100,000 characters, and provides significant
>>>> additions and improvements..." to existing features, including new files and
>>>> upgrades to existing files. Sounds close to adding features ;-)
>>>
>>> I agree. This seriously feels like new, potentially high risk code to be
>>> adding this late in the game. The BDFL can always override, but unless
>>> someone is really convincing that this is low risk high benefit, I'd vote no
>>> for 2.6/3.0.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Something I think we should also be considering is the 2.7/3.1 release
>> cycle. I propose that we shorten it to ~1 year from 2.6/3.0's release
>> with our main aim being binding 2.x and 3.x more closely. This would
>> get the new unicode features out fairly quickly without having to wait
>> another 2.5 years like 2.5 -> 2.6.
>
> I was never proposing to support any new features in 2.6/3.0. I was
> only proposing to update the data files that we already support to the
> versions provided by 5.1.0. Those data files should have the same
> format, just slightly improved content: some new characters, some
> corrected properties. Fredrik says it best:
>
>> at least two Unicode experts have stated that they don't think the changes
>> are that important. determining exactly what the changes to the *core*
>> character database was the whole point of my offer to tinker with this.
>>
>> (I got distracted due to compiler issues and certain other things to be
>> announced later, but I expect to have some results later this week).
>

Plus the Europeans who probably use Unicode more than the dissenting
Americans also seem to think it's a good idea. It's just a data table,
and it's auto-generated, *and* one of the main guys from the Unicode
Consortium is willing to help. I say let the change go in.

-Brett
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barry at python

Aug 25, 2008, 12:04 PM

Post #29 of 33 (1954 views)
Permalink
Re: Unicode 5.1.0 [In reply to]

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Hash: SHA1

On Aug 25, 2008, at 1:53 PM, Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>> I agree. This seriously feels like new, potentially high risk code
>> to be adding this late in the game. The BDFL can always override,
>> but unless someone is really convincing that this is low risk high
>> benefit, I'd vote no for 2.6/3.0.
>
> at least two Unicode experts have stated that they don't think the
> changes are that important. determining exactly what the changes to
> the *core* character database was the whole point of my offer to
> tinker with this.

You don't mean the experts claimed they weren't important, right?
Unimportant changes definitely don't need to go in now <wink>.

- -Barry

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barry at python

Aug 25, 2008, 12:07 PM

Post #30 of 33 (1957 views)
Permalink
Re: Unicode 5.1.0 [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Aug 25, 2008, at 2:15 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

> Guido's request was just for updating the Unicode database with
> the data from 5.1 - without adding new support for properties or
> changing the interfaces.
>
> See this page for a list of changes to the Unicode database:
>
> http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UCD.html
>
> The main file used for the unicodedata module is called
> "UnicodeData.txt".

That's much less scary.

- -Barry

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fredrik at pythonware

Aug 25, 2008, 12:17 PM

Post #31 of 33 (1959 views)
Permalink
Re: Unicode 5.1.0 [In reply to]

Barry Warsaw wrote:

> You don't mean the experts claimed they weren't important, right?
> Unimportant changes definitely don't need to go in now <wink>.

Well, at least Guido managed to figure out what I was trying to say ;-)

</F>

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barry at python

Aug 25, 2008, 12:36 PM

Post #32 of 33 (1963 views)
Permalink
Re: Unicode 5.1.0 [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Aug 25, 2008, at 3:17 PM, Fredrik Lundh wrote:

> Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>> You don't mean the experts claimed they weren't important, right?
>> Unimportant changes definitely don't need to go in now <wink>.
>
> Well, at least Guido managed to figure out what I was trying to
> say ;-)

Yeah, I was just being curmudgeonly. :)

- -B

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steve at holdenweb

Aug 25, 2008, 3:55 PM

Post #33 of 33 (1978 views)
Permalink
Re: Unicode 5.1.0 [In reply to]

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Aug 21, 2008, at 6:30 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>
>> http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode5.1.0/
>> "Unicode 5.1.0 contains over 100,000 characters, and provides
>> significant additions and improvements..." to existing features,
>> including new files and upgrades to existing files. Sounds close to
>> adding features ;-)
>
> I agree. This seriously feels like new, potentially high risk code to
> be adding this late in the game. The BDFL can always override, but
> unless someone is really convincing that this is low risk high benefit,
> I'd vote no for 2.6/3.0.

But it's [the] wafer-thin [end of the wedge] ...

The difficulties with subprocess suggest there's plenty to do without
adding yet one more tiny little task.

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/

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