Mailing List Archive: Python: Bugs

[issue7076] Documentation add note about SystemRandom

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Nov 2, 2009, 12:29 PM

Post #1 of 7 (118 views)
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[issue7076] Documentation add note about SystemRandom

Shawn Ligocki <sligocki[at]gmail.com> added the comment:

I rewrote the description, mostly using the claims form urandom, so that
we don't claim something new. What do you guys think?

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Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file15251/random.patch

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Nov 2, 2009, 12:40 PM

Post #2 of 7 (110 views)
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[issue7076] Documentation add note about SystemRandom [In reply to]

Raymond Hettinger <rhettinger[at]users.sourceforge.net> added the comment:

The wording looks reasonable but it doesn't seem to add much that is not
already said:

'''
class SystemRandom( [seed])

Class that uses the os.urandom() function for generating random numbers
from sources provided by the operating system. Not available on all
systems. Does not rely on software state and sequences are not
reproducible. Accordingly, the seed() and jumpahead() methods have no
effect and are ignored. The getstate() and setstate() methods raise
NotImplementedError if called.
'''

I hesitate to include anything about cryptographic strength because that
isn't really guaranteed on any system. At best, there are a fixed
number of bytes of machine generated entropy. At worst, it is
deterministic (computed from time, etc) or it is not available at all.

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Nov 2, 2009, 12:44 PM

Post #3 of 7 (110 views)
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[issue7076] Documentation add note about SystemRandom [In reply to]

Shawn Ligocki <sligocki[at]gmail.com> added the comment:

So, all I really want to do is call attention to SystemRandom from the
top of the page, because it is easily not noticed at the bottom. Do you
guys have any suggestions for how to do that that doesn't repeat too
much and doesn't claim things that you aren't comfortable with claiming?

----------

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Nov 2, 2009, 12:46 PM

Post #4 of 7 (109 views)
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[issue7076] Documentation add note about SystemRandom [In reply to]

Shawn Ligocki <sligocki[at]gmail.com> added the comment:

How about this, sweet and simple.

----------
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file15252/random.patch

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Nov 2, 2009, 1:12 PM

Post #5 of 7 (111 views)
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[issue7076] Documentation add note about SystemRandom [In reply to]

Raymond Hettinger <rhettinger[at]users.sourceforge.net> added the comment:

I'm disinclined to move this to the top of the page but will keep this
open and consider further at a later date.

The SystemRandom class is an alternative generator like WichmanHill
which is typically not the right choice for many applications.

----------
priority: -> low

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Nov 2, 2009, 1:21 PM

Post #6 of 7 (110 views)
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[issue7076] Documentation add note about SystemRandom [In reply to]

Shawn Ligocki <sligocki[at]gmail.com> added the comment:

There is a whole paragraph about WichmanHill at the top of this page
already and (if anything) I think that WichmanHill is less notable
(basically only used in legacy applications). However SystemRandom is
very useful. I don't want to make claims about urandom that I can't back
up, but urandom is very useful and I think that there ought to be some
note of it in the opening for people who want a stronger random
instance. All I'm suggesting is a sentence to point it out. That would
have been enough for me not to have reinvented the wheel.

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Nov 3, 2009, 12:25 AM

Post #7 of 7 (98 views)
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[issue7076] Documentation add note about SystemRandom [In reply to]

chuck <jan.hosang[at]gmail.com> added the comment:

I think many people who are looking for a random number generator end up
on this page and need to be informed if there are alternatives so they can
make up their own mind. If you want to discourage people to use it, that's
fine and we can do so, but I think it's wrong to hide it from people who
don't suspect random functions which are os dependent to be in the os
package instead of the random package or don't even know about the os
random facility.

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