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Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0!

 

 

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perl.p5p at rjbs

Apr 17, 2012, 1:48 PM

Post #1 of 21 (962 views)
Permalink
Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0!

tl;dr: Search ahead for "XXX"

Here is a link to the meta-ticket for 5.16.0 blockers:

https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=94978

You don't need to bother clicking, though. I'll summarize: there's only one
blocker on it. It's about UTF-8 (especially ":utf8") being stupid, and it's:

https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=100058

We have a number of patches that will be getting applied soon to deal with
problems in this area, and that will close the last blocker.

There are also a few "can we get this applied before 5.16?" bugfixes in flight,
although very few, and I think we should see the end of them this week, unless
something very nasty is turned up. Also, we're on the lookout for bugs
introduced in the last round of bugfixes for the previous round of bugfixes.
(We call it a code freeze, but there seems to be a decent amount of motion
still going on!)

I'd also like to close a few more of the Pod::Html tickets at...

https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=112014

...but I'm not promising anything just yet. My hope is to see Pod::Html
dual-lifed in one for or another shortly after 5.16.0 so that bugfixes won't
have to wait for 2013 to be generally applicable.

More urgently, the perl5160delta needs to be finished. My plan there is to
complete a 3rd and 4th pass over it, bringing in some sections intentionally
omitted during its initial compilation. Then I'll be asking for a general
review of the document, especially one or two sections.

So, where does this all leave us? Here's what I see happening next:

* the last blocker is closed
* one or two minor remaining fixes get in through very convincing argument
* some bugs are identified in recent bugfixes and fixed very conservatively
* the code freeze grows even colder
* perl5160delta is lovingly kicked around
* perl-5.16.0-RC1

### My guess is that RC1 is due in about two weeks. Maybe a little less,
### maybe a little more. A virtually identical tarball, without the RCx
### marker will be released when we've had a release candidate go at least a
### week without any "showstopper" class bugs.

This means we may get 5.16.0 before 5/16/2012. I am not going to be too
broken up by the loss of a little gag like that. ;)

Finally: please note that I've been reviewing my p5p folder over and over for
the past few days, looking for unresolved questions and other things that got
left hanging. If you think that I am ignoring some question you sent me,
please just remind me. I'm not ignoring anything on purpose.

--
rjbs
Attachments: signature.asc (0.48 KB)


sprout at cpan

Apr 17, 2012, 2:58 PM

Post #2 of 21 (946 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

rjbs said:
> If you think that I am ignoring some question you sent me,
> please just remind me. I'm not ignoring anything on purpose.

111984
111980
112316
112372
107636
112484

111984 means trying to persuade CPAN authors to make new releases,
or getting PAUSE admins to intervene.

111980 does not have a patch yet, but would result in bugward-
compatibility nightmares if allowed to escape.

All the rest have patches.


tony at develop-help

Apr 17, 2012, 3:23 PM

Post #3 of 21 (945 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 09:58:24PM -0000, Father Chrysostomos wrote:
> rjbs said:
> > If you think that I am ignoring some question you sent me,
> > please just remind me. I'm not ignoring anything on purpose.
>
> 111984
> 111980
> 112316
> 112372
> 107636
> 112484
>
> 111984 means trying to persuade CPAN authors to make new releases,
> or getting PAUSE admins to intervene.
>
> 111980 does not have a patch yet, but would result in bugward-
> compatibility nightmares if allowed to escape.
>
> All the rest have patches.

112372 was fixed in bac5c4fc.

Tony


xdaveg at gmail

Apr 17, 2012, 6:13 PM

Post #4 of 21 (948 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 5:58 PM, Father Chrysostomos <sprout [at] cpan> wrote:
> 111984 means trying to persuade CPAN authors to make new releases,
> or getting PAUSE admins to intervene.

None of them strike me as absolutely critical requiring unusual
intervention. (If someone wants to step up and take over maintenance
in the normal way after an author fails to respond, that can follow
the usual protocol.)

Some authors just won't be bothered until things break and people
start complaining. I suggest listing the problem modules as "known
issues" in the perldelta.

David


craig.a.berry at gmail

Apr 18, 2012, 8:55 PM

Post #5 of 21 (937 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Ricardo Signes
<perl.p5p [at] rjbs> wrote:

> There are also a few "can we get this applied before 5.16?" bugfixes in flight,
> although very few, and I think we should see the end of them this week, unless
> something very nasty is turned up.

> If you think that I am ignoring some question you sent me,
> please just remind me. I'm not ignoring anything on purpose.

Not knowing what you have in flight, consider yourself reminded about:

<https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=112424>

<https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=112440>

which both have one-line patches.


sisyphus1 at optusnet

Apr 19, 2012, 4:26 AM

Post #6 of 21 (943 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricardo Signes" <perl.p5p [at] rjbs>
To: <perl5-porters [at] perl>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 6:48 AM
Subject: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0!

> Finally: please note that I've been reviewing my p5p folder over and over
> for
> the past few days, looking for unresolved questions and other things that
> got
> left hanging.

I see in current blead (in ext/Pod-Html/lib/Pod/Html.pm) that we still have:

$Pages{$key} =~ s/^[\w\s\-]+\///;

That was an oversight on my part, and should have been:

$Pages{$key} =~ s/^[\w\s\-\.]+\///;

Without that amendment the cross references in the generated html
documentation will be wrong for MS Windows if the top level perl source
directory contains a "." in it.
This didn't matter so much when building blead because the top level perl
source directory (that I was using, at least) did not contain a "." in it.
But when ActiveState and Strawberry Perl start building perl-5.16.0, it's
very likely that their top level perl source directory will contain 2
occurrences of "." (namely, the 2 dots in "5.16.0").

It's not an ideal solution anyway. It does the trick so long as the top
level perl source directory matches /^[\w\s\-\.]/, but please feel free to
replace it with something better.

It was originally meant merely to demonstrate the problem, and to show an
approach as to how it could be fixed. But I haven't properly tested its
portability, regexes are not my forte, and its presence in the perl source
leaves me feeling a bit nervous.
Note that it's possible (though unlikely) to have, on MS windows, a top
level perl source folder that does *not* even match /^[\w\s\-\.]/ - and
that if that happened, then (I think) the cross references in the generated
html documentation would again be incorrect.

Cheers,
Rob


perl.p5p at rjbs

Apr 19, 2012, 7:09 PM

Post #7 of 21 (939 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

* Father Chrysostomos <sprout [at] cpan> [2012-04-17T17:58:24]
> rjbs said:
> > If you think that I am ignoring some question you sent me,
> > please just remind me. I'm not ignoring anything on purpose.
> 111984
> 111980
> 112316
> 112372
> 107636
> 112484

Thanks!

> 111984 means trying to persuade CPAN authors to make new releases,
> or getting PAUSE admins to intervene.

I had already been bugging Ingy for a while, and he very graciously made
a release today. Thanks, Ingy!

Miyagawa is going to look into the mobile JP encoding dist.

Even so, I think these aren't blocking. I'd just like to keep an eye on it as
we go forward.

> 111980 does not have a patch yet, but would result in bugward-
> compatibility nightmares if allowed to escape.

I see you have a patch now. I will reply to it tomorrow.

> All the rest have patches.

All the rest have been applied or approved, I believe, now.

Thanks again.

--
rjbs
Attachments: signature.asc (0.48 KB)


perl.p5p at rjbs

Apr 19, 2012, 7:11 PM

Post #8 of 21 (940 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

* "Craig A. Berry" <craig.a.berry [at] gmail> [2012-04-18T23:55:15]
> Not knowing what you have in flight, consider yourself reminded about:
> <https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=112424>
> <https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=112440>
> which both have one-line patches.

Thanks, I hadn't forgotten them, but I sure am sitting on them, aren't I?

I'll get them reviewed and probably-applied this week. Thanks for the poke.

--
rjbs
Attachments: signature.asc (0.48 KB)


perl.p5p at rjbs

Apr 19, 2012, 7:27 PM

Post #9 of 21 (938 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

* Sisyphus <sisyphus1 [at] optusnet> [2012-04-19T07:26:45]
> I see in current blead (in ext/Pod-Html/lib/Pod/Html.pm) that we still have:
>
> $Pages{$key} =~ s/^[\w\s\-]+\///;
>
> That was an oversight on my part, and should have been:
>
> $Pages{$key} =~ s/^[\w\s\-\.]+\///;

Thanks, I've applied this hack. :)

I agree with the rest of what you said. The path handling in Pod-Html needs
to be kicked in the pants.

--
rjbs
Attachments: signature.asc (0.48 KB)


sprout at cpan

Apr 19, 2012, 8:28 PM

Post #10 of 21 (939 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

> All the rest have been applied or approved, I believe, now.

Thank you.

There is one more, revealed by one of Encode-JP-Mobile's failures
and reported as #112530.

This is a regression that Karl Williamson has already fixed on his
smoke-me/khw-invlist branch.


sprout at cpan

Apr 19, 2012, 8:37 PM

Post #11 of 21 (939 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

rjbs wrote:
> Miyagawa is going to look into the mobile JP encoding dist.

He has already made another release (0.28) with my charnames
patch applied (one of the problems). But it still trips up
on perl bug #112530, which, as I said before, is fixed on the
smoke-me/khw-invlist branch.


h.m.brand at xs4all

Apr 19, 2012, 11:48 PM

Post #12 of 21 (946 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 16:48:05 -0400, Ricardo Signes
<perl.p5p [at] rjbs> wrote:

>
> tl;dr: Search ahead for "XXX"
>
> Here is a link to the meta-ticket for 5.16.0 blockers:
>
> https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=94978
>
> You don't need to bother clicking, though. I'll summarize: there's only one
> blocker on it. It's about UTF-8 (especially ":utf8") being stupid, and it's:
>
> https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=100058
>
> We have a number of patches that will be getting applied soon to deal with
> problems in this area, and that will close the last blocker.
>
> There are also a few "can we get this applied before 5.16?" bugfixes in flight,
> although very few, and I think we should see the end of them this week, unless
> something very nasty is turned up. Also, we're on the lookout for bugs
> introduced in the last round of bugfixes for the previous round of bugfixes.
> (We call it a code freeze, but there seems to be a decent amount of motion
> still going on!)
>
> I'd also like to close a few more of the Pod::Html tickets at...
>
> https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=112014
>
> ...but I'm not promising anything just yet. My hope is to see Pod::Html
> dual-lifed in one for or another shortly after 5.16.0 so that bugfixes won't
> have to wait for 2013 to be generally applicable.
>
> More urgently, the perl5160delta needs to be finished. My plan there is to
> complete a 3rd and 4th pass over it, bringing in some sections intentionally
> omitted during its initial compilation. Then I'll be asking for a general
> review of the document, especially one or two sections.
>
> So, where does this all leave us? Here's what I see happening next:
>
> * the last blocker is closed
> * one or two minor remaining fixes get in through very convincing argument
> * some bugs are identified in recent bugfixes and fixed very conservatively
> * the code freeze grows even colder
> * perl5160delta is lovingly kicked around
> * perl-5.16.0-RC1

Just to have it archived, HP-UX PA-RISC smokes for C-ANSI-C are in a
pretty bad state for the last weeks already:

http://perl5.test-smoke.org/ and http://doc.procura.nl/smoke/index.html

At this moment I have very serious problems to solve for $work, so no
real time to dig.

--
H.Merijn Brand http://tux.nl Perl Monger http://amsterdam.pm.org/
using perl5.00307 .. 5.14 porting perl5 on HP-UX, AIX, and openSUSE
http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/ http://www.test-smoke.org/
http://qa.perl.org http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/


kevin at dawson10

Apr 23, 2012, 5:10 AM

Post #13 of 21 (922 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

On 17/04/12 21:48, Ricardo Signes wrote:
> tl;dr: Search ahead for "XXX"
>
> Here is a link to the meta-ticket for 5.16.0 blockers:
>
> https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=94978
>
> You don't need to bother clicking, though. I'll summarize: there's only one
> blocker on it. It's about UTF-8 (especially ":utf8") being stupid, and it's:
>
> https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=100058
>
> We have a number of patches that will be getting applied soon to deal with
> problems in this area, and that will close the last blocker.
>
> There are also a few "can we get this applied before 5.16?" bugfixes in flight,
> although very few, and I think we should see the end of them this week, unless
> something very nasty is turned up. Also, we're on the lookout for bugs
> introduced in the last round of bugfixes for the previous round of bugfixes.
> (We call it a code freeze, but there seems to be a decent amount of motion
> still going on!)
>
> I'd also like to close a few more of the Pod::Html tickets at...
>
> https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=112014
>
> ...but I'm not promising anything just yet. My hope is to see Pod::Html
> dual-lifed in one for or another shortly after 5.16.0 so that bugfixes won't
> have to wait for 2013 to be generally applicable.
>
> More urgently, the perl5160delta needs to be finished. My plan there is to
> complete a 3rd and 4th pass over it, bringing in some sections intentionally
> omitted during its initial compilation. Then I'll be asking for a general
> review of the document, especially one or two sections.
>
> So, where does this all leave us? Here's what I see happening next:
>
> * the last blocker is closed
> * one or two minor remaining fixes get in through very convincing argument
> * some bugs are identified in recent bugfixes and fixed very conservatively
> * the code freeze grows even colder
> * perl5160delta is lovingly kicked around
> * perl-5.16.0-RC1
>
> ### My guess is that RC1 is due in about two weeks. Maybe a little less,
> ### maybe a little more. A virtually identical tarball, without the RCx
> ### marker will be released when we've had a release candidate go at least a
> ### week without any "showstopper" class bugs.
>
> This means we may get 5.16.0 before 5/16/2012. I am not going to be too
> broken up by the loss of a little gag like that. ;)
>
> Finally: please note that I've been reviewing my p5p folder over and over for
> the past few days, looking for unresolved questions and other things that got
> left hanging. If you think that I am ignoring some question you sent me,
> please just remind me. I'm not ignoring anything on purpose.
>
Hi Ricardo,

Just a reminder, about change log in perl5db.pl POD.

when i view perl5db.pl in perl 5.15.6

I expected to see change log for

v1.34

as well as

perl 5.15.6 -> perl5db.pl v1.35

but it's missing

it only goes up to v1.33

Also note

5.14.2 => v1.33
5.15.0 => v1.34
5.15.1 => v1.34
5.15.2 => v1.34
5.15.3 => v1.34
5.15.4 => v1.34
5.15.5 => v1.34
5.15.6 => v1.35
5.15.7 => v1.35
5.15.8 => v1.35
5.15.9 => v1.35

from perl5156delta

* The "c [line num]" debugger command was broken by other debugger
changes released in 5.15.3. This is now fixed.

* Breakpoints were not properly restored after a debugger restart
using the "R" command. This was broken in 5.15.3. This is now fixed.

* The debugger prompt did not display the current line. This was
broken in 5.15.3. This is now fixed.

regards
kevin


jesse at fsck

Apr 24, 2012, 4:15 AM

Post #14 of 21 (933 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

> Hi Ricardo,
>
> Just a reminder, about change log in perl5db.pl POD.
>
> when i view perl5db.pl in perl 5.15.6
>
> I expected to see change log for
>
>     v1.34
>

I think it may be time to put the in-file changelog there out of its
misery.


nick at ccl4

Apr 24, 2012, 4:37 AM

Post #15 of 21 (925 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 07:15:49AM -0400, Jesse Vincent wrote:
>
>
> > Hi Ricardo,
> >
> > Just a reminder, about change log in perl5db.pl POD.
> >
> > when i view perl5db.pl in perl 5.15.6
> >
> > I expected to see change log for
> >
> >     v1.34
> >
>
> I think it may be time to put the in-file changelog there out of its
> misery.

Yes.

Is it the only one in a core file? I'm suspicious that in most cases, a
manually curated in-file changelog is not the way to go. It's likely to
be incomplete, and makes work for humans that we already have tools to
automate.

Nicholas Clark


jesse at fsck

Apr 24, 2012, 4:39 AM

Post #16 of 21 (924 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

>
> Yes.
>
> Is it the only one in a core file? I'm suspicious that in most cases, a
> manually curated in-file changelog is not the way to go. It's likely to
> be incomplete, and makes work for humans that we already have tools to
> automate.

perlbug comes to mind

>
> Nicholas Clark

--


perl.p5p at rjbs

Apr 24, 2012, 12:00 PM

Post #17 of 21 (922 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

* Nicholas Clark <nick [at] ccl4> [2012-04-24T07:37:10]
> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 07:15:49AM -0400, Jesse Vincent wrote:
> > > Just a reminder, about change log in perl5db.pl POD.
> > > when i view perl5db.pl in perl 5.15.6
> > > I expected to see change log for
> > > [...]
> >
> > I think it may be time to put the in-file changelog there out of its
> > misery.
>
> Yes.

I agree. It took me a while to even remember what this was about, because the
idea of an in-file changelog was so ... weird.

--
rjbs
Attachments: signature.asc (0.48 KB)


jesse at fsck

Apr 24, 2012, 4:24 PM

Post #18 of 21 (915 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 03:00:23PM -0400, Ricardo Signes wrote:
> * Nicholas Clark <nick [at] ccl4> [2012-04-24T07:37:10]
> > On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 07:15:49AM -0400, Jesse Vincent wrote:
> > > > Just a reminder, about change log in perl5db.pl POD.
> > > > when i view perl5db.pl in perl 5.15.6
> > > > I expected to see change log for
> > > > [...]
> > >
> > > I think it may be time to put the in-file changelog there out of its
> > > misery.
> >
> > Yes.
>
> I agree. It took me a while to even remember what this was about, because the
> idea of an in-file changelog was so ... weird.

jesse/remove-changelogs removes the changelogs from perlbug and
perl5db.pl

Given the impeding release, I didn't want to presume to push these
to blead. If you deem the changes valid for blead, please feel free
to cherrypick them or to ask me to.

-j

>
> --
> rjbs



--


perl.p5p at rjbs

Apr 24, 2012, 6:25 PM

Post #19 of 21 (916 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

* Ricardo Signes <perl.p5p [at] rjbs> [2012-04-17T16:48:05]
> Here is a link to the meta-ticket for 5.16.0 blockers:
>
> https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=94978
>
> You don't need to bother clicking, though. I'll summarize: there's only one
> blocker on it. It's about UTF-8 (especially ":utf8") being stupid, and it's:
>
> https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=100058
>
> We have a number of patches that will be getting applied soon to deal with
> problems in this area, and that will close the last blocker.

This has not changed. Karl is still on this.

> More urgently, the perl5160delta needs to be finished. My plan there is to
> complete a 3rd and 4th pass over it, bringing in some sections intentionally
> omitted during its initial compilation. Then I'll be asking for a general
> review of the document, especially one or two sections.

I have to add the "module updates" section. This is a quick, automated job.
It's just a lot easier once we change the version number -- or, well, update
Module::CoreList, which is the thing that's easier when the version number is
updated. And when my CPAN mirror is up to date.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. That section is not going to be controversial,
right? Right.

I've rebuilt the Config/Compile section and the Internals section.

Everybody please give the whole thing some looking.

I do have some more material to look at and add, but it's getting close to
being done.

> So, where does this all leave us? Here's what I see happening next:
>
> * the last blocker is closed
> * one or two minor remaining fixes get in through very convincing argument
> * some bugs are identified in recent bugfixes and fixed very conservatively
> * the code freeze grows even colder
> * perl5160delta is lovingly kicked around
> * perl-5.16.0-RC1
>
> ### My guess is that RC1 is due in about two weeks. Maybe a little less,
> ### maybe a little more. A virtually identical tarball, without the RCx
> ### marker will be released when we've had a release candidate go at least a
> ### week without any "showstopper" class bugs.

I think we're still on track.

I will be hosting a one-man #onionsketch in a week, on May 2, at 20:00
America/New_York. It won't be a very exciting show, but it'll happen.

--
rjbs
Attachments: signature.asc (0.48 KB)


sprout at cpan

Apr 24, 2012, 10:56 PM

Post #20 of 21 (916 views)
Permalink
Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

rjbs wrote:
> I have to add the "module updates" section. This is a quick, automated job.
> It's just a lot easier once we change the version number -- or, well, update
> Module::CoreList, which is the thing that's easier when the version number
> is updated. And when my CPAN mirror is up to date.

I wrote this script (I hope lynx does not mangle it--yes, I use lynx)
some time ago to show differences between versions. Maybe you can use
parts of it:

use Module::CoreList;

for(Module::CoreList::find_modules qr/(?:)/) {
my $prev;
my $seen_first;
for $v(sort {$a<=>$b}keys %Module::CoreList::version) {
if (!exists $Module::CoreList::version{$v}{$_}) {
if($seen_first) { $v{$_}{$v}=gone; undef $_ for($seen_first,$prev) }
}
elsif( $Module::CoreList::version{$v}{$_} != $prev ) {
$seen_first++;
$prev=$v{$_}{$v}=$Module::CoreList::version{$v}{$_}
}
}
}

++$Data'Dumper'Sortkeys;
use Data::Dumper; print Dumper \%v;
__END__

> Anyway, it doesn't matter. That section is not going to be controversial,
> right?

I still think it is a waste of space to list version numbers,
especially if it is just the same information that people can extract
from Module::CoreList.

And there is precedent in perl5100delta for listing only
interesting changes.


demerphq at gmail

Apr 24, 2012, 11:39 PM

Post #21 of 21 (914 views)
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Re: Coming Soon: Perl 5.16.0! [In reply to]

On 25 April 2012 07:56, Father Chrysostomos <sprout [at] cpan> wrote:
> ++$Data'Dumper'Sortkeys;

Eeek! There is a porter who uses this syntax!

Yves

--
perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/"

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